How to Measure (and Improve) Your Culture

How to Measure (and Improve) Your Culture

The biggest business buzzword of 2019 is “culture.”

People talk about “improving culture” as a way to improve retention, client acquisition, evangelism … . Everyones want to improve the “culture” at his or her business, but few can actually define it. Until we define it, we can’t improve it. Instead, we take wild stabs at it, like adding foosball tables and free haircuts.

In this series, I’m going to tell you how to define “culture” in your gym. Then I’m going to tell you how to measure it—and how to improve it. Finally, I’ll tell you a secret: There’s something far more important than culture when it comes to keeping staff, clients and yourself engaged.


What Is Culture?


Your personal culture is the sum of your 1:1 relationships.

Your gym culture is the sum of your 1:1 relationships with your clients.

Your staff culture is the sum of your 1:1 relationships with your staff.

Your culture is not how often your clients visit a bar together. It’s not how long they stick around after a workout or even what they’ll wear to get bonus points in the Open or an in-house competition. Your culture is relationships, and every relationship is 1:1.

You measure your culture by tracking the length of engagement (LEG) of your clients. Great culture keeps clients longer.


Culture in the Founder Phase

In the Founder Phase, your culture is the sum of your relationships between you and each client. You’re delivering your service yourself; if you build trust and empathy with your clients, you have a good culture.

A good relationship is a balance between friendship and objectivity. Your clients are not your friends, but your relationship must be friendly. You must stay professionally distant enough to charge money for your service; you must stay close enough to demonstrate you care. It’s not easy.


Culture in the Farmer Phase

In the Farmer Phase, your culture is determined by your clients’ relationships with your team and your team members’ relationships with you.

Your team must understand your vision (we call this “The Owner’s Intent”). They must also know that you care about their careers and have plans in place for them (we use the Career Roadmap exercise in the Incubator and Growth programs). They must see the horizon and know they can achieve their career goals on your platform.

Then your team must deliver 1:1 relationships with your clients the same way you would. This is the most challenging part of being a Farmer: handing over the responsibility for client relationships. Every staff person will have different personalities, strengths and weaknesses. For example, one might be incredible at creating workouts for clients but might not have a strong sense of empathy. Or one might be creative but not quite organized enough. For this reason, we always build a safety net into the Farmer Phase: We add a client success manager role for 2-4 hours per week.


Culture in the Tinker Phase

In the Tinker Phase, your clients’ relationships should be with your brand. This means they have to align with your company’s values and vision. Now you have six relationships to manage:

—Your client’s relationship with your staff.
—Your client’s relationship with your brand.
—Your staff members’ relationship with their manager.
—Your staff members’ relationship with your brand.
—Your relationship with your direct reports.
—Your relationship with your brand.

In the Tinker Phase, we tell entrepreneurs to build a managerial layer (usually a chief operations officer or general manager, a chief financial officer and a chief sales officer or sales lead). These should be the owner’s three direct reports. In turn, they translate the owner’s intent, vision and mission to the staff.

Good Tinkers should be removed from daily operations but still available to staff who have unique situations. For example, the CEO shouldn’t be the one with the key to the supplies cabinet but should still be available to listen to a staff member with concerns about his or her career.

The Tinker must clearly define brand values. He or she must answer questions like:

“How does our service fulfill our goal?”
“What will we not do?”
“Who is our perfect client?”
“What is the perfect delivery of our service?”
“How far will we go to solve a customer’s complaint?”

She must also define the language and behavior used by the brand. For example, the Tinker must have:

—Staff playbooks.
—A quality control or evaluation process.
—A style guide for brand media.

It seems like the Tinker is too far removed from client interactions to influence company culture. But that’s not true: The Tinker’s role is to define and teach the company culture to key staff who then reinforce the culture by tracking client and staff relationships.

At this level, companies must track LEG as a measure of their client-facing culture; and they must track length of employment as a measure of corporate culture. Many businesses make wild guesses about “employee culture,” adding pinball machines and free breakfast cereal. But they fail to measure the effects of their actions on employee retention. That means they’re not taking their culture seriously; they’re just trying to look as cool as Google.


Measure Culture!


Like everything else in your business, culture is measurable. That means you can improve culture no matter how poor it is at present. The key is to focus on one relationship at a time and measure your progress.

Maybe monthly pub crawls do build a better culture in your business. It’s possible. But unless you’re tracking LEG, you’ll never know what’s actually helping your business.

Tomorrow, I’ll tell you how to improve your LEG scores. Later this week, I’ll tell you how to improve your staff retention.

From Gas-Station Gym to 5,000-Square-Foot Facility With Jonathan Watt

From Gas-Station Gym to 5,000-Square-Foot Facility With Jonathan Watt

Mateo: 00:02 – Hey, it’s Mateo of Two-Brain Marketing. On this edition of the Two-Brain Marketing podcast, I’m talking with Jonathan Watt from Townie: a Fitness Community. You’ll learn about his experience from running a gym out of a gas station to owning a 5,000-square-foot facility. You’ll also learn about his advertising system and how he spent $286 on ads and generated over $5,000 in front-end sales. So you don’t want to miss this. Make sure to subscribe to Two-Brain Radio for marketing tips and secrets each week.

Greg: 00:29 – Two-Brain Radio is brought to you by Two-Brain Business. We make gyms profitable. We’re going to bring you the very best tips, tactics interviews in the business world each week. To find out how we can help you create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at

Greg: 00:47 – We’d like to thank another one of our amazing partners, Level Method. As a CrossFit gym owner, I know retention is key to keeping my business going for years to come. Retention is not easy, though. People want to see success, and if you don’t show them early, they’ll find a place that does. This is where Level Method comes in. With Level Method, you are now able to guide yo ur members through an amazing structure that’ll give them a path to success. Once you have success, you instantly have motivation for them to continue, which will now be delivered to your members. Start systemizing the creation of powerful moments for your members today. Go to to book a free call.

Mateo: 01:24 – Hello, welcome to the Two-Brain Marketing podcast. I’m your host Mateo Lopez, one of the digital marketing mentors at Two-Brain Business. Thanks for tuning in and in today’s episode we have a very special guest, Jonathan Watt, owner of Townie: a Fitness Community, and you’ll learn about his experience and how in just one month he spent a little less than $300 on ads and added 10 new clients to his gym. So Jonathan, how are ya?

Jonathan: 01:52 – I am good, Mateo.

Mateo: 01:54 – For those who don’t know, that would be myself included, we just met today, for those who don’t know, tell us a little about who you are, where you’re from, and a little bit about your business.

Jonathan: 02:05 I’m Jonathan Watt, and my wife and I live in Thomasville, Georgia. We’ve owned our gym for, it’ll be four years in January. Which is crazy to think about, it’s been a long four years. It feels like more than four years, gym years are longer than regular years.

New Speaker: 02:25 I think that’s definitely true.

Jonathan: 02:27 – It’s like dog years, but yeah, so we’ve owned our gym for about four years now. And we met originally in Tallahassee. I was working at a gym in Tallahassee coaching, ran a boot camp program there. Always had a dream of opening my own space. And my wife encouraged me to pursue that dream and she’s been a big part of this as well. And so we moved kind of back to our hometown or our roots here in Thomasville, and opened our gym four years. And then it’s been, yeah, a wild journey since then.

Mateo: 03:02 – What kind of a businesses is it, is it a boot camp? Is it a functional fitness? What is it?

Jonathan: 03:07 – Yeah. Yeah. So we’re a CrossFit gym. We are an affiliate. So we primarily offer CrossFit. And then obviously, you know, we have group classes, and then with the help of Two-Brian, you know, we’ve added personal training and and nutrition coaching as well recently, which has been really, really big, with the help of HSN. So that’s been awesome. So yeah, with the help of Two-Brain we started to really expand our offerings and be able to offer, you know, more things and be able to help more people here in our community.

Mateo: 03:37 – So tell me a little about the name and the rebrand, perhaps. Tell me a little about the story there.

Jonathan: 03:43 – So Townie comes from, there’s actually a small paper here in town, in Thomasville, called the Thomasville Townie, so that’s kind of where we took our name from. And it’s originally my wife’s idea, so she can get credit for that. We originally were CrossFit Townie, that was our name or our brand. And about two years ago, we decided to just kind of rebrand just with the way that we were going with things and we were really looking to offer more, and add more to our business in terms of nutrition coaching and personal training and things. And so, yeah, so our goal was just to, you know, really kind of, you know, be able to hopefully, you know, let people become more receptive to us as a brand, you know, and not be maybe deterred away by CrossFit.

Jonathan: 04:35 – Where we are, being in South Georgia, CrossFit and maybe—you know, in the bigger cities, it’s obviously, you know, very widespread, but even still here in Thomasville, you know, people don’t necessarily know exactly what CrossFit is or maybe you know, kind of an idea in their mind what they think it is based off of what they saw on TV one time. And so, you know, the rebrand has really kind of helped us, you know, get over that hurdle hopefully initially and get people in the door and show them that, hey, this is our version of CrossFit and this is what we do and this is how we, you know, help people on a daily basis, you know, soccer moms to dads that are working, you know, nine to five and just want to get healthier and fitter. And so, you know, that’s our goal.

Mateo: 05:24 – How did you get into CrossFit? How’d you find fitness?

Jonathan: 05:28 – So I had a buddy in high school that never worked out a day in his life. And we were real good buddies. I always enjoyed working out. I was in the gym at school and enjoyed, you know, working out. But he was a good friend of mine. And after we graduated, I saw him probably a few months after we graduated high school and I ran into him and I was like, dude, what have you done doing? And he said man, I’ve been doing CrossFit. And I was like, well, what is CrossFit? And he said, come tonight, come to the gym and try it out. And, so I was like, all right, well, I’m down. You know, I was always up for something new.

Jonathan: 06:07 – I was tired of doing bicep curls and, you know, just the traditional bodybuilding stuff. And I was like, I needed something, being a former athlete. And so I went with him and instantly I walked in and it was, obviously, it was in— that was in 2010. And so it was certainly a different atmosphere than CrossFit gyms now as we’ve evolved and things. But it was, you know, it was grungy. It was, you know, it smelled, you know, like a gym locker room. But it was awesome, and I loved it and instantly I was hooked. And then from there, you know, I went to college, found a gym, was fortunate enough to really learn at a gym in Tallahassee there, from the head coach there. And he really poured into me. And I knew that I wanted to help people, you know, utilizing CrossFit and using a fitness as a medium to be able to work with people and help them, you know, not just with their fitness goals, but it’s so much more than that to people. So, you know, that’s kind of where it all started.

Mateo: 07:08 – So how did that switch happen though? Just cause loving CrossFit and then opening an affiliate, I mean, it’s a common jump, but it’s a big jump. What was the flip of the switch that made you want to, you know, go all in on it?

Jonathan: 07:24 – Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was fortunate enough where the gym I was at in Tallahassee gave me the opportunity to start kind of my own boot camp program within the gym. And I think that was probably the first kind of big step for me that was like, hey, you know, maybe I can, you know, do this thing, you know, on my own. And so I was blessed to have that opportunity where they gave me the opportunity to build a boot camp program and I had some success with it. And it kinda grew within this CrossFit gym, CrossFit box in Tallahassee. And so I think that, you know, kind of like showed me like, hey, you know, you can do this. You could be successful with this. And it’d always just been a huge, huge passion of mine, coaching, in and of itself.

Jonathan: 08:12 – I loved, you know, training, but just coaching people and being able to help people was just something that, you know, had a huge passion for. And with CrossFit, it just married those two things and really provided me that outlet to do that. So I think on my own, I wouldn’t have made the leap. But thankfully, you know, with my wife’s help and her encouragement, she was a huge part in telling me and believing in me that, you know, I can do this and we can do this and make it happen. And so we kinda just went all in on it when we decided to open up our gym. And I kinda think that’s maybe the only way you can do it, just going all in. So that’s what we decided to do. And it’s been obviously, definitely not easy, but you know, Two-Brain has been a huge help in really taking our business to the next level and being able to provide, you know, myself, coaches, an opportunity to be able to do the things we love, which is help people.

Mateo: 09:16 – What was it like in those early days, that first six months of being open?

Jonathan: 09:21 – Yes, it was tough. We opened our first space was this little gas station. It used to be an old gas station.

New Speaker: 09:33 – Oh really? Tell me about that. Tell me about the space.

Jonathan: 09:35 – Yeah, it was like, I think it was maybe like 800 square feet, and it was like two bay doors, where, you know, cars would pull in and they’d fix them in there as well as they had the old pumps out there as well too, with the big awning over it. I spent about a month just renovating the space all by myself and I had no idea what I was doing. No construction experience, painting, you know, all that good stuff.

Mateo: 10:01 – Was it still, like when you got it, was it still being operated as a gas station or had it been something else for a while?

Jonathan: 10:08 – No, it was just sitting vacant for a while. And so painted it, spruced it up and everything and then literally, you know, announced, hey, we’re opening the gym, you know, next week, put it on Facebook and, you know, here’s our class times. And I was sitting up there at 5:30 in the morning on day one just waiting, hoping somebody would show up, hoping and praying. And that was about the first six months was, you know, hoping and praying that somebody would show up that day to work out with us and we could, you know, be able to help them. But interestingly enough, it’s funny, the night before we opened, one of our coaches, right, one of our coaches today, he was our first client. So he emailed us the night before and was like, hey, what’s this CrossFit thing I heard you guys are doing at the gas station?

Jonathan: 10:57 – And I was like, oh, come tomorrow, come tomorrow at 4:30 in the evening and I’ll show ya. So, yeah, it’s cool to look back on those early days and see, you know, how we’ve evolved and how we’ve grown and now having that client, our day one client, you know, as part of our coaching staff is pretty cool to see that evolution as well. But, but yeah, we had plenty of workouts where we outgrew that little 800-square-foot garage, and then we were doing workouts in the parking lot. People were driving by us like we were crazy. And so, you know, after that we found a little bit bigger space, the current space right now, and we’ve kind of slowly grown. But yeah, the early days just sitting and waiting, hoping somebody would show up. Those are, I look back on those and they were tough.

Mateo: 11:46 – But you obviously did grow. I mean you had people where you outgrew the space. So how did you grow back then?

Jonathan: 11:53 – Shoot, I don’t know. A lot of prayer and we just, you know, we just tried to do a really good job. We just tried to treat people the way we wanted to, you know, care about people and show them how we can help them and help them well. And they told their friends, thankfully, and you know, it just slowly, one person after the next, you know, came through the doors and, you know, we made it work. So, yeah, definitely I think prayer definitely was a big part of that though.

Mateo: 12:24 – Awesome. So what was it like moving into the bigger space?

Jonathan: 12:29 – Yeah, that was pretty interesting too. So we’ve got about 5,000 square foot now. But it’s the current space we’re in now, but when we first moved in we didn’t occupy the entire space, so we actually were just like, hey, we can only afford, you know, this corner of the building, can we just rent this corner? And then when we grow we can kind of expand into more space. And so, you know, I think that was fortunate that we were allowed to do that, we were able to do that, because we didn’t have to pick up and move somewhere else, you know, again. And so I was confident that we were going to grow with kind of the way things were going, but I didn’t want to bite off more than I could chew. And so I think, you know, just being smart with how we were growing and kind of organically, you know, growing not only our space, but you know, equipment and things like that as our membership grew, you know, kind of helped us slowly build out, you know, and grow into what we are today.

Mateo: 13:29 – So it sounds like you were able to grow organically. This was four years ago, the CrossFit name was still, I think, you know, there was a lot of value—it was still new, so people, if you Googled it and you were the only one in town, you are going to be the only one that popped up. So I think that probably definitely helped. What was then the catalyst for signing up for mentorship?

Jonathan: 13:54 – I probably would say the biggest catalyst would be our son. So my wife became pregnant, was pregnant and we wanted to start a family and I was coaching all the classes, wearing all the hats, doing all the things, and we had had some success, but, you know, I was doing everything. And I enjoyed it, I enjoy coaching. I enjoy doing those things. It was, you know, it was fun watching the gym grow, but I knew, you know, for our family goals and what we wanted to do as a family, that we needed to legitimize our business and we needed to be able to hire coaches and, you know, really step up our game. And, yeah, it’s funny, like, you know, anything in life, our family or, you know, marriage goals and things like that.

Jonathan: 14:51 – You know, we look towards mentors or try to look towards people that we want to emulate and things like that. And you know, for business it just made sense, it was like, hey, like I need a business mentor. I need somebody that’s, you know, doing the things I want to do or, you know, is where I want to be down the road. And I need somebody to show me how to get there. Because I felt like, I think at the time I had kind of maxed out my capacity and I was kinda like, man, I’ve done everything I feel like I know how to do, you know, I don’t really know what’s next or how to get over this hurdle into this next step where I can, you know, be with my family more and spend more time with them.

Jonathan: 15:31 – And that was probably the biggest goal that really pushed me towards mentorship and Two-Brain, and looking for help and guidance with that.

Mateo: 15:39- And when was this?

Jonathan: 15:41 – This was in January of this year. So actually our son was born last October. And so after he was born, we kinda settled into everything in January, signed up for the Incubator. And so yeah, I signed for the Incubator, and went through the Incubator and then after the Incubator, I think there was like, all right, you know, you can jump into Two-Brain Marketing and turn the marketing on. And I was like, hold on, wait a second. Like, I don’t think I’m ready.

Mateo: 16:09 – Why didn’t you think you were ready?

Jonathan: 16:12 – I was still wearing all the hats at that point. I had gone through the Incubator, you know, I was trying to, you know, implement all the things in the Incubator and really transform my business and, you know, really put all the processes and the infrastructure to be able to sustain growth, to be able to, you know, bring in new people and be able to sustain that for a long time.

Jonathan: 16:35 – And so I remember I hopped on the first call, the first marketing call, and I was just like, hey, I don’t think I’m ready. You know, I guess I’m still trying to catch up on the Incubator, I’m still trying to, you know, get all these other things in place. And I was like, I think I want to revisit this, you know, once I’m ready. And so I think that was a good thing I did that, for sure. But yeah. But now after we’ve turned on, you know, our ads and things like that, it’s been, it’s definitely helped a lot. You know, it helped us grow and really level up our business even to another level.

Mateo: 17:07 – So what were the pieces that were missing that you felt after the Incubator you still needed to put in? Was it staffing? Was it just the way in which you wanted to onboard people, what was the missing piece?

Chris: 17:17 – Hello my friends. It is Chris Cooper here. Since 2009 I have been writing daily blog posts, producing podcasts, videos, all kinds of stuff on social media with one mission in mind: to make gyms profitable. I came to that mission because I was an unprofitable gym owner. It almost ruined my finances and almost ruined my career, my marriage, everything. And since that day, since I made my recovery, I have wanted to help other gym owners become profitable, too. It’s part of my mission to the world because if you’re profitable, you’ll be here changing lives of thousands of your clients for the next 30 years. I think together we can have a tremendous impact. When we started mentorship, I did every single call myself. I was doing up to a thousand free calls a year and I was doing 10 calls with people who signed up for our early mentorship program, but the Incubator has been updated and improved a dozen times since then. Now the Incubator is really the sum of all of our experiences with over 800 gyms worldwide. In the Two-Brain mentorship program, we can now learn from everybody. We can collate data, we can see what’s working where and when and what the new gold standards are as they emerge. When somebody has a great idea, we can test it objectively and say, “Will this work for everyone or will it work for people on the West Coast or on the East Coast?” We can do that with little things like Facebook ads. We can also do that with operations and opening times and playbooks. All the questions that you have about the gym, we can answer them with data and with proof now. That’s the Incubator. It’s more than what I wrote about. It’s more than my experience. It is the best standard in the fitness industry, period. And I hope to see you in there.

Jonathan: 18:59 – I think both of those things that you mentioned. I think staffing was obviously a big one. I think I only had one or two coaches then and really none of them, you know, were doing a lot of personal training. I was doing kind of all the onboarding where they were coaching group classes. We were still growing organically pretty well and almost kind of like, as much as I couldn’t keep up with just with myself doing that. And so that was where I was kinda like, I don’t know if I can handle, you know, an influx of new members right now when we’re already kind of growing still organically at this point. And so yes, staffing was definitely the biggest one. And then just trying to iron out, you know, our onboarding process and make sure our retention, you know, was, you know, where we needed it to be where we’re keeping our current numbers and kind of, you know, the client journey and all that. So, yeah, I think that was probably the biggest thing that was kind of holding me back. I think I was maybe just a little bit scared, too. I was like, OK, I dunno what I’m getting myself into. So, I think I just needed a little bit of confidence, too, that I could handle it.

Mateo: 20:07 – You mentioned you have you know, your first client ever ended up being one of your staff members. And I know you also mentioned before we hopped on, we were talking about the name change, Townie: a Fitness Community, like that’s what we are, a fitness community, you know, what is your philosophy on the culture of your gym that, you know, enable—there’s something to be said where you have someone who from day one was so in love with what you’re doing, who then wanted to like take an active role and participate in your staff to take an active role in what you’re doing. So, you know, what is the, you know, the philosophy, the culture at your gym that you think maybe played a part in this person who became an actual staff member?

Jonathan: 20:54 – Yeah, yeah. That’s a great question. You know, community is a word that’s thrown around quite a bit in CrossFit and things like that, but, you know, I really, you know, feel like what we do and our members, you know, really feel a sense of community and a real close-knit bond with each other. And we really try to encourage that with, you know, things that we do in the classes on a daily basis. You know, the way that our coaches, you know, we train them to, you know, treat our members on a daily basis, the way that we train our members to treat each other. And sure, we’ve had, you know, tons of ups and downs and bumps in the road and things we’ve had to deal with with that, you know, through kind of our journey.

Jonathan: 21:39 – And I think that’s helped us learn, you know, the culture that we want and the people that we want. Not only on our staff, but you know, also in our membership, you know, in our gym on a daily basis. And as we kind of, you know, have taught them how we want to treat each other, how we treat our members, you know, it’s really, I think impacted the way that people from outside our gym view our gym, too. And so we try to put that out on social media and things like that. You know, that I think Chris, like we steal some of the stuff from Chris, like the happy gym, you know, like, hey, like, you know, we’re happy. You know, we support each other, we encourage each other.

Jonathan: 22:21 – We’re really big on that. Every day before, you know, we start a workout, our coaches tell all of our members to fist bump each other. And so everybody in our gym goes around and gives each other a fist bump. There’s just some small things culture-wise that we’ve tried to promote and to get people to, you know, realize that hey, it’s not just you working out with your headphones on by yourself. Like, you know, we are a community here to support each other and, you know, we want to build each other up and not tear each other down, be overly competitive and all that. So, you know, that’s really helped a lot. And now that we’ve got, you know, people that understand our culture and not just our coaches, but our members as well, it only attracts more people like that, you know, and through affinity marketing and, you know, bringing their friends in and they see that, you know, from the get-go that, you know, this is how we do things here and this is what we’re all about.

Mateo: 23:13 – So then in your words, what is it that you guys sell? And how do you sell it?

Jonathan: 23:18 – We sell fitness. I mean, we sell, you know, we sell happiness and we sell confidence, I think, you know, and so know those are the main things that, you know, I usually hear when people come to the gym and you know, talk about, you know, what they want to achieve. You know, usually they say weight loss or this, that and the other. But most of it has to do with, you know, happiness, fitness, and confidence, really. And so, you know, that goes far beyond, you know, just working out and losing weight and those things, you know, that goes a lot into, you know, just how you make people feel. And so, you know, from our coaches to our members, you know, we really emphasize making people feel like they’re valuable, you know, like they’re worth it and like they’re awesome. You know, every time they come in the gym, you know, from the moment they walk in the gym to the moment they leave, even when they’re outside the gym.

Mateo: 24:10 – That’s awesome, man. Speaking of what do you sell, let’s talk about when you did finally transition over to the paid advertising. I know you worked with Sarah. How’d it go? What were some of the results?

Jonathan: 24:24 – Well, the results were kind of crazy. It was definitely a wild month as soon as we turned on the ads, started getting leads in and people booking No-Sweat Intros. And so yeah, we spent, our first month in October, we turned our ads on mid-October and we spent about $286. And we brought in over $5,000 in front-end revenue in October. And so, yeah, it was a big kind of a shock when we started seeing all these intros come in and my schedule was quickly booked up. It was cool though. Definitely, I really learned to enjoy kind of the marketing process and the sales process because I think, you know, Two-Brain has helped a ton, you know, with me, you know, and my mindset towards sales, and you know, really how we need to sell our services to survive and to be able to help people.

Jonathan: 25:24 – And so that mindset shift has helped me hugely. And then, you know, with this big influx of, you know, No-Sweat Intros and meeting with people and talking with them about their goals, I think that mindset shift really helped me, you know, be able to help people, you know, through sales. And so I really began to enjoy being able to practice those skills during those free intros. And that helped me a lot, you know, I think, and really understanding the value of what we’re doing and also, you know, develop my skills and being able to tell people better and guide them towards how we can help them. Yeah, it was crazy for sure.

Mateo: 26:07 – What about November? We just started November.

Jonathan: 26:10 – Yes. Just started November. So we had to turn our ads down, just cause we were having trouble kind of keeping up with everything and trying to make sure we had everything in place to be able to take care of all these new members. We spent $44 and 71 cents this month and we brought in $1,380 this month in November in front-end revenue.

Mateo: 26:32 – That’s amazing, man. And what was the resistance or the attitude towards selling before the Incubator and before the marketing piece? Because a lot of people have that, right? A lot of gym owners, especially if they start the—like it’s their first business or they’re starting themselves after being like a coach for a while. You know, how would you describe the resistance that you had?

Jonathan: 26:55 – Yeah, well I think, I think Coop describes it well as like, you know, like the slimy salesman, you know, I think that’s what people think of when you think of, you know, the slimy salesman. And you know, when you shift that mindset to, you know, helping people and just hey, you know, guiding them to the best option to truly help them. And like I said at the beginning, you know, like that’s why I opened the gym, you know, that’s why we got into this business was to genuinely help people and you know, just being able to guide them to the best option, you know, to help them the best, you know—if we’re not doing that, we’re doing them a disservice. And so that mindset shift I think has helped me immensely. And then also I think just realizing that, hey, we can’t help everyone. And I know, you know, at the beginning, you know, when we first opened our business, you’re just like, I want to help everybody, you know, so you end up giving discounts here and free memberships here.

Mateo: 27:53 – Everyone come work out for free.

Jonathan: 27:56 – Yeah, exactly. And that natural, you know, desire to be able to help people in us is great, but you know, there’s a price tag with that, you know, and to be able to support, you know, what we’re doing and you know, and build a sustainable business and pay my coaches, you know, we have to, here’s just the price tag. And, so yeah, and I think it gave me a lot of confidence too in what we’re selling and what we’re doing. And I know that we can help people and I know that this is the best way that we can help people. And so I think, you know, and the adding value piece, I know Coop has talked about that a lot with, you know, not necessarily, you know, trying to like bring your price down or price to whatever you’re offering, but you know, here’s a price. What can we give that person, you know, that is that valuable. And so that’s really what we’ve tried to do with, you know, the things that we offer people, is try to provide as much value as possible. And so, you know, I’m really confident in that now and I think Two-Brain has really helped give me the confidence in what we’re doing with people and how we’re helping them.

Mateo: 29:08 – I want to take a step back. You mentioned when you first did the Incubator it took you a while to put some of the things into place, but what was the first real shift you saw, and the first big change? Cause it sounds like it was you and maybe someone else or I don’t know if you had other staff in the beginning, and then now it sounds like you have a little bit more staff and more growth. So what was the really first big change you saw going through mentorship?

Jonathan: 29:33 – Yeah, I was just myself that went through the Incubator. I think maybe the first big shift, I mean, I think just getting the playbook, the standard operating procedures, like in writing, you know, writing down—I had just some rough things. Like, hey, this is, you know, how group classes should run. But, you know, I really didn’t have it laid out in detail of exactly what the coaches should do and expected them. And so when we hired our first coach, you know, I found myself, you know, being like, oh, why aren’t they doing it like this? You know, why aren’t they doing, you know, the way I do it, you know, what is wrong with them? You know? And really I hadn’t told them exactly how I wanted them to do things.

Jonathan: 30:17 – And so, you know, writing all those things down, writing all those SOPs down, putting them in a playbook, and you know, all of our passwords, you know, operating procedures, the closing, opening, just all those things I think were just really helpful in really training my staff and coaches and really giving them the expectations that I had for them. And then not, you know, feeling like I was just like frustrating myself all the time cause things weren’t being done how I wanted them to, but I never taught them how to do them the right way in the first place.

Mateo: 30:51 – Awesome. And so what was the process like for you once you got, like all these leads coming in? What happened when someone opted in and booked an appointment? What happened after that point for you guys?

Jonathan: 31:03 – So once someone books an appointment or a free intro, I would always try to follow up with at least a text message. So that was pretty helpful. I did run into at the beginning where, you know, people would no-show or you know, schedule an appointment and I’d be waiting there to meet them and I’d be like, oh, where are they? But, following up with a text message right away or a phone call right away, you know, hey, you know, saw you booked a free intro. Can’t wait to meet you. I’m Jonathan, introducing them and I think—or introducing myself, I think putting that like personal like me behind the phone or me like, hey, I’m Jonathan, I’m going to be here waiting for you, meeting with you when you come in really helped a lot once I started doing that to get people to show up to those appointments.

Jonathan: 31:52 – And so I saw a huge jump in people showing up for their appointment doing that, and then also sending them like a text reminder the day of their appointment and saying, hey, you know, we’re here. We’ve got your appointment scheduled, you know, text me back hey just to confirm that you’re going to be here too. So that helped. And let me know if you need to reschedule. So that personal touch point helped a lot. So that was kind of the communication before they would come and sit down with us. Once they come in and sit down, we chat with them, you know, get to know them a little bit better. And that process I really enjoy just to really get to know people and hear about, you know, why are they here, you know, what do they want, you know, what are their goals?

Jonathan: 32:32 – And I truly enjoy talking with people about that. And then, you know, put them on the InBody, which is great. We got an InBody recently, which I think really helped us with, especially our nutrition, because all of our new packages that we have been selling with our six-week challenge through the marketing, like 90% of them signed up with nutrition, which was huge. So I think, you know, the InBody and utilizing that and explaining to them how important nutrition was going to be to their, you know, to their success, I think really helped guide them to the best option for them. And then, you know, hopefully sign them up from there and get them rocking, you know, within 24 hours ideally. But yeah, that’s kind of the intro process.

Mateo: 33:20 – I like the use of the InBody, especially if you’re gonna try and up the front-end offer ticket price with the nutrition. I think that’s really critical. That’s awesome, man. We’re coming up on the end of time here, but it sounds like you’ve had, you know, a lot of growth, especially in this year and that you’ve come a long way, from starting off in the first gas-station gym. You know, what do you attribute to your growth and your success so far?

Jonathan: 33:49 – I honestly, I think mentorship. I think having a mentor. I think not only having, you know, a mentor, but having just the Facebook group, the Two-Brain Facebook group I think has been immensely helpful. But more of a community of gyms that are, I mean literally at the tip of the sphere, you know, doing it, practicing the best practices in the gym, fitness industry, and being able to learn and see, you know, how the best gyms in the world are doing things and then try to implement those in my gym. So the mentorship and then just the community of other gyms that are, you know, doing the best things for their clients on a daily basis. And then trying to implement as many of those things as I can our gym, I think has been the key to, you know, our growth and to taking our business to the next level.

Jonathan: 34:49 – Got a long way to go, but, you know, just the Two-Brain group and the mentorship has been really, I think the key. I don’t think I would have a gym right now anymore. We’ve got another kid on the way in January, so I don’t think we would have a gym anymore. I think I would have probably tapped out if I did not, you know, join Two-Brain back in January. And now I can really see a path to where, you know, I can create a successful and sustainable business, that supports not only me and my family, but you know, coaches in the future. And hopefully, you know, full-time coaches and you know, be an asset to my family. And so that’s kind of my goal.

Mateo: 35:41 – That’s awesome man. Congrats again on another newborn on the way. If people want to find ya, talk to ya, go and hit you up, you know, down South, how can they find you?

Jonathan: 35:54 – Well, our gym Instagram is @towniefitnessco. Usually that’s probably where you can reach me, I’m not on my personal Instagram that often. But that’s usually the space where you could reach me or our gym. I’m on Facebook, Jonathan Watt on Facebook. I check Facebook occasionally. But the gram is where it’s at. So usually on the gram, so @towniefitnessco, come check us out and yeah.

Mateo: 36:24 – Awesome man. Thank you. We’ll talk to you later.

Jonathan: 36:28 – All right, thanks.

Mateo: 36:30 – Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. Make sure to subscribe to receive the most up-to-date episodes wherever you get your podcasts from. To find out how we can help create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at


This is our NEW podcast, Two-Brain Marketing, where we’ll focus on sales and digital marketing. Your host is Mateo Lopez!

Greg Strauch will be back on Thursday with the Two-Brain Radio Podcast.

Thanks for listening!

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The Flywheel Turns on Trust

The Flywheel Turns on Trust

This series is about the Flywheel Principle and how I’ve built our mentorship practice to maximize its effect.

In the first post, I explained what it takes to get your wheel turning in the right direction and then how to build momentum and grow.

The second post showed how your personal flywheel is different from your business flywheel.

In the third post, I explained how you can remove flat spots in your wheel and obstacles from the road.

To close out the series, I’m going to talk about trust.


The Axis of Your Flywheel


Put a barbell on a rack. Place your hand on the sleeve. Spin it. Track how long the sleeve spins. That’s a measure of balance and friction. Good barbells have sleeves that spin longer.

Now put a 45-lb. plate on the sleeve. Grip the edge of the plate. Spin it on the bar. No matter how long the sleeve spun on its own, it will spin far longer with a plate on it. This is called rotational inertia.

Now put that plate on a rusted barbell that doesn’t turn at all. Spin the plate hard. It might turn a bit … but it will grind against the sleeve. It won’t turn for long. And you’ll have to use greater force to get it moving.

No matter how big your flywheel, it will spin faster and longer on a frictionless axis. And the axis of your flywheel—in business and in life—is trust.

I said that there are six “handles” on your gym business flywheel, and that pushing on any of them will make your business grow faster and last longer.

But if your axis doesn’t turn smoothly—if you don’t have trust—none of your pushing will work nearly as well.


The Six Handles


First Handle: Teach the Vision

Your staff and your clients know when you’re lying. If you’ll say anything to make a buck, they’ll see it. They’ll know when your values are different from their values. They’ll know whether you’ll have their back or throw them under the bus. But if they trust you, they’ll believe in your vision and pursue it to the death. Read more about Aligning the Vs (vision and values) here.


Second Handle: Improve Operations

Your staff and your clients know you’re not perfect. If you say, “I made a mistake. I should have charged more. And I should have focused on coaching instead of selling you open gym,” that’s going to be a difficult conversation. But the outcome depends on trust: If your clients trust you to do the best thing for them in the end, they won’t leave. If they don’t know why you’re making these decisions, or if they distrust your values, they will. And they should. They’ll argue. They’ll join another gym in revenge. They’ll try to recruit other members to go with them. These aren’t rational actions: They’re emotional ones, and they happen because there’s no trust.


Third Handle: Upgrade Team

Your staff has to understand their opportunities and responsibilities and trust you to measure them the same way every time. “That teacher hates me!” is now a common complaint among students who get bad grades. That means they don’t trust the teacher to provide equal attention and grading. If you sit with your team and set goals with them, show them their opportunities clearly, answer hard questions and give them feedback regularly, they’ll trust you. If you don’t, they’ll be susceptible to people who want them to fight with you (yeah, they’re out there).


Fourth Handle: Keep Clients Longer

When does your bank call you to ask, “How’s everything going in your business?” In my experience, that never happens until you close your account. Then, when the banker calls, I roll my eyes because I know the bank doesn’t really care; it just wants me to leave my money in the vault. Building trust with your clients means constant contact. You must re-sell them on your value. Just like a marriage.


Fifth Handle: Sell More

When your clients know you’ll give them the best possible prescription, they’ll pay for your suggestion. When they know you’ll run bait-and-switch marketing to get more clients, they also know you’ll say anything to get more money from them. If they understand that you value fairness, your rate increase won’t be a surprise. But if they see that you just value more clients, more clients, more clients, then they won’t trust you to give their goals much attention. Word gets around.


Sixth Handle: Get More Leads

When future clients see an ad, they might not take action. In fact, most won’t. And over time, as the high-trust early adopters move to something else, the rest of us need to trust you before we buy from you. We need to go to your website and see proof. We need to see other clients who look like us. We need to read or watch something to see if you know what you’re talking about. We need to trust you. Even Facebook now tells high-level marketers they need to publish a lot of free content to build authority (another word for trust) on their platforms. Gyms that publish a lot of media spend far less on Facebook ads (sometimes $0). Paying for attention isn’t the same as establishing trust.


Trust and Leadership


The axis of trust is important in your business. It’s also critical for your personal flywheel (listen to this podcast from Naval Ravikant on “compounding relationships”). But of course, there’s a lot of overlap.

Local physiotherapists and chiropractors refer their clients to my gym, Catalyst, because they trust me as a person. Local parents trust me with their kids because they see me volunteering in the community. And my wife trusts me to work long hours (and travel) because she sees me work hard to be a dad when I’m home.

Trust means that people know you will do the right thing even when it’s hard. That you will make the choices that will ultimately benefit them. That you have their best interests in mind.

Leadership means that you have earned the collective trust of your group.

Where will you lead us?


Other Articles in This Series

How to Build an Unstoppable Business
Building Your Personal Flywheel
Removing Speed Bumps

Two-Brain Coaching: The Second-Degree Course With Josh Martin

Two-Brain Coaching: The Second-Degree Course With Josh Martin

Greg: 00:02 – Hey everyone, it’s Greg Strauch of Two-Brain Media, and on this week’s episode I talked to Josh Martin. Josh Martin is a mentor within Two-Brain but has created an amazing product and service for everyone out there that isn’t just within Two-Brain and that is Two-Brain Coaching. On this week’s episode we talk about methods versus principles. We talk about the different variables a coach is facing and has to manage when they’re coaching either one on one or a group class and different styles of it. We also talk about what is available right now for any gym owner or any coach out there that wants to jump into this training for Two-Brain Coaching. And we talk about the benefits. We need to talk about the benefits not only of the gym owner, the coach, but really what can be protected by going through this certification. Subscribe Two-Brain Radio to hear the very best ideas, tips and topics to move you and your business closer to wealth. Two-Brain Radio is brought to you by Two-Brain Business. We make gyms profitable. We’re going to bring you the very best tips, tactics interviews in the business world each week. To find out how we can help you create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at

Chris: 01:13 – What makes a good gym website? The answer to that question keeps changing. Five years ago I would’ve said that you need this rotating banner image. Three years ago I would’ve said you have to have one splash page highlighting the benefits of your service. That’s true. The problem is that the benefits of your service change by the client you’re trying to target and so you need to be able to adapt. You need to be able to add your own landing pages. Your main cover page should reflect what your most important clients want. That’s going to be different from what my most important clients want. So a website that’s based on a template with the same kind of rotating image is not going to work anymore. I use For Time Design for the and Catalyst gym websites because those are the most important websites I own. I want responsive design that’s going to work well on mobile. About 60% of your clients are going to come through mobile and more in the future. I want a responsive designer, which means I can contact them to make changes and I want to know how to change my own oil. I want to know how to get in there and add my own posts. I talk a lot about content marketing and that means I have to know the medium through which I’m delivering my content. Using For Time Design has been my choice now for about three years because Theresa and her team are super responsive. She can answer questions for me, she can show me how to do it myself if I want to or she can do it for me if I don’t have time. She’s created a big series of videos for Two-Brain clients in our Incubator and Growth stages to watch so that they can do stuff like build landing pages themselves. A lot of website companies try to pull the curtain in front of their knowledge. They try to hold a lot of stuff secret so that they can charge you to do the basic things. Just like in car maintenance, changing your oil, rotating your tires. If you want to do that stuff, awesome. If you don’t have time to do that stuff, take it to the garage. Theresa at For Time Design gives you both options and she’ll even teach you how to do it yourself if you want to. I use that’s what’s made them an official Two-Brain partner is our firm belief in their commitment to helping first and a strong sense of service value.

Greg: 03:27 – All right, I’m on another amazing episode of Two-Brain Radio with Josh Martin. He is an amazing mentor. On top of that, he’s created a very, I mean amazing program but really unique program that I think a lot of gym owners can benefit from. And you guys have heard about this before of the Two-Brain Coaching. So I love having him back on here because he’s got more and more stuff for you guys. So Josh, welcome.

Josh: 03:51 – Thanks Greg. It is a pleasure to be here as always. I’m glad that you invited me back.

Greg: 03:57 – Happy to. So let’s kinda dig into this and before we jump into, hey, here’s the new services that that Two-Brain Coaching offers and the other stuff within Two-Brain Coaching, let’s kind of dive into a few different things and when it comes to our principles and methods of how we go about coaching. It seems like a lot of us are very heavy on the methods compared to like principles of coaching. So more of like, how do we do things. And can we dive into that a little bit? What’s the reasons why we dive so much more into the method compared to the principles of coaching?

Josh: 04:43 – Well, I’m so glad that you want to start with this, man. It’s a topic that really formed the foundation for, you know, building Two-Brain Coaching. And you know, there is a stark difference between methods and principles. And I’ll quickly, you know, give you my definition between these two. So, methods are something that—how you do something with a client. So I’ll give you an example. Most of the people that are probably listening to this are CrossFit gym owners. CrossFit is a methodology. Some of you guys within your CrossFit gym, maybe you follow something like the Conjugate Method, that is also a methodology. Similarly, kettlebell training, Olympic weightlifting, gymnastics training, sprinting. All of these things are methods. So that is how you train a client. And I think that the reason that methods are so popular and people gravitate to them so much so is that you can put a label and a brand and kind of a culture around a method.

Josh: 05:53 – But a principle is something that is always going to stand the test of time. And this is why within Two-Brain Coaching, we kind of say that we are method agnostic. So the goal is not to teach you that this is the one way that you can get your clients to their goals. Really the goal is to teach principles that allow you, the coach, to effectively apply any method and methodology of your choosing to help your clients achieve their goals. You know, so I’ll give you a for instance. Some universal principles that I think that we can all agree on with regards to coaching is that clients should be assessed before any training takes place. Nutrition is going to be a vital component to getting somebody the results that they desire, and recovery. That’s something that is an often overlooked aspect of, you know, getting somebody to their healthiest or fittest state. Does that kind of lay the groundwork for what we mean when we talk about principles versus methods?

Greg: 06:57 – I think so. And I think, I mean, those are three very big truths within the fitness or exercise realm or just performance-based. All of those things are definitely things that need to be accomplished. I completely understand the difference between those methods and principles, and working with a methodology compared to working on the principles. What would you say the principles of Two-Brain Coaching are that you work with clients through?

Josh: 07:26 – Yeah, so there’s five of them and we really go break them down into extreme detail on the website. But I’ll just give you the CliffsNotes version right now. So principle number one is we want you to enjoy the process. So we believe that, you know, if you’re a coach or really anything that you’re doing in life, you deserve to enjoy what you do. But in this case we’re talking about coaching fitness. So principle number one is that you need to enjoy the process. And the way that we kind of take people through getting to that enjoyment of the process is by focusing on three things: focus, effort and time. And I won’t define those further, but that’s part of principle number one. Number two is where we get into, like I mentioned earlier, you know, a universal principle that we can all agree on is assessing a client.

Josh: 08:19 – But principle number two within Two-Brain Coaching just goes a little bit further. And so we’re going to say that it is you should learn, design, deliver and refine. So you should learn about your clients. So learn is listen, empathize, ask questions, reflect, and then give them next steps. Design is where you’re actually, you know, writing out a training plan for them after you’ve established some baseline metrics. Delivery of your actual service is it can be done in person or digitally. If we’re doing it in person, are you going to do it one on one or in a group? And then finally refined is, you know, if you’re a member of the Two-Brain family, you would kind of recognize this as, you know, goal-setting sessions or athlete check-ins. You know, every 90 days or some gyms, maybe they do it every 60 days.

Josh: 09:10 – So principle two is learn, design, deliver and refine. Number three is we want you to sleep, eat, move and manage. And what we mean by manage is your stress. So within each of those, we want you to do them often and we want you to do them well. So we want you to sleep often and sleep well, move often and move well. So on and so forth. Principle number four is empower through education. So in Two-Brain Coaching, we’re actually gonna do this in two distinct ways. We’re going to deliver depth and breadth. So we might do a deep dive into a topic, and then we’re also going to teach you a lot of different topics. So we’re going to expand the breadth of your knowledge. So number four is in power through education. And then number five, this is without a doubt my favorite principle as a matter of fact, we just had some shirts printed up with this on it. And that is that everything is everything. And so this one is something I remember kind of putting the pieces together on several years ago. When you’ve been coaching long enough, you really begin to understand that variables of a client’s life that really don’t seem to have any relation to one another, not only do they relate very closely to what the client is going to achieve or not achieve, but they really kind of help inform you on the decisions that you make as a coach because you realize that everything is interconnected. So everything is everything is is where you truly start to see the interconnectedness of everything under the umbrella of coaching a client. So it’s not about movement, it’s not about nutrition or psychology, handshakes and high fives. It’s not even about having fun and achieving goals. It’s about all of that stuff all the time. So that fifth and final principle of ours at Two-Brain Coaching is everything is everything.

Greg: 11:26 – I love it. I feel like those five principles, I mean you’re teaching people more than just becoming a coach. You are teaching them more of principles that are life principles really, that throughout this process—now of course you take it, it sounds like and put it into a micro standpoint of coaching. But from a macro standpoint, all of these things are definitely lessons or principles that people can follow outside of just coaching.

Josh: 11:54 – Exactly. You know, I think that’s a great point to make, Greg, is that yes, we are applying it in the coaching sense. So like in our course when you actually get into it, yeah, we do talk about anatomy and physiology and the psychology of physical activity and group interactions in the fitness space. But universally, if you were to zoom out even further, you know, this is something that, you know, everybody can utilize in whatever avenue of life that they’re in.

Greg: 12:24 – Now, as a coach, we are managing, I mean many different variables, right? If somebody comes in late, if we’re going through the class structure and maybe we had a morning class that said, hey, we went over and it wasn’t structured as much as it should be. But really there’s two variables that we need to seem to manage as a coach overall. What are those two variables?

Josh: 12:53 – So there are so many moving parts when it comes to running a really, really good session, delivering the best hour of the day to your clients. But it boils down to two different things. Number one, you’re managing the lesson. So what is the actual work that is inside the session that you are taking your client or clients through? And then the second variable is that audience, you know, and for each of those there’s two options. On the lesson front, you can either have a fixed lesson. So a great example of this is your on-ramp curriculum or your foundations or fundamentals. So a lot of CrossFit gyms instead of, you know, throwing people into the group training and saying, hey, hope you know how to swim, you know, we’ll take them through an on-ramp process. So we’re going to meet them where they are and teach them the things that they need to know to feel comfortable and competent when they do get into the group.

Josh: 13:52 – So this is a session template or a lesson plan that is really not going to change from one client to the next. And so this is what we would call a fixed lesson. A variable lesson would be that you, the coach, are writing a whole training session that is client dependent. So you’re writing it specifically for them or specifically for a particular audience. So you can have a fixed lesson plan or a variable lesson plan, and then the audience is going to be that second variable that you have to manage. So as a beginning coach, I don’t want you to have to worry about 12 different people. I want you to be really good at achieving results for one client. So you can have a fixed audience of one or if you offer group fitness classes, you know, I know we’re using CrossFit, but it could be any, it could be Zumba, it could be pilates, some sort of boot camp or HIIT class, but your audience can be that fixed audience of one or a fixed audience of what I like to say in the course is more than one. So as soon as you have two people, it becomes a completely different ball game than just focusing on one, because now your attention is spread. I would say probably in most CrossFit gyms, you know, you’re going to have anywhere from eight to 12 people. I actually took a poll of a couple of hundred gym owners earlier this year to ask them what their average group class size is. And the vast majority of people said about 10 to 12 people was their average class size.

Greg: 15:31 – Well, and it’s funny that you bring this up because I mean, on this podcast, I’m always trying to be fully transparent. I’m always trying to say exactly what’s going on and never give anybody kind of BS or say, hey, I do this when I really don’t or anything. I would never do that. I wanna make sure that people understand that. But with the way you’re bringing it to my attention, like I’m even currently, we are training coaches to be coaches, but we’re doing it completely backwards. And it sounds like the way what you’re saying is kind of like the scalability, or really like how CrossFit brings up we gotta have consistency. So the first movement has to look like the hundredth movement before we can start adding intensity to it.

Josh: 16:14 – Absolutely.

Greg: 16:15 – And that’s what it kinda sounds like to me of what you’re saying, which like for me, we train coaches to start group coaching and coaching group classes and I can see how that could be completely wrong, even. I would even go as far as that, because with what you’re saying here, it’s, hey, why don’t we take on one person, a very fixed lesson plan, so for me that would probably be my on-ramp and it’s only one person. And then from there, slowly building up and building up, like you say, to kind of build up over time and get that coach more aware because if I turn around and throw somebody into a 12-person class, really am I even doing a service that is what we at CFUE say is amazing and above that even to 12 people, if it’s a brand new coach that hasn’t even worked with one person and doing a great job with the experience for that one person?

Josh: 17:12 – Yeah, man, you’re exactly right. And, you know, this is definitely not the way that we always trained our coaches, you know, back in the day either. I can remember the first time that I at my particular gym had to bring somebody on to start taking over some of the coaching that I was doing as we were growing. It was a necessity and, you know, yeah, we just kind of, for lack of a better term, threw people in, you know, to the fire, so to speak. And you quickly figure out that that doesn’t work. And then you say, OK, first we’re gonna, you know, have you shadow and you’re gonna shadow some arbitrary amount of hours before I feel like that you are completely competent as a coach and at my level. And then we’re gonna, you know, throw you back to all the wolves.

Josh: 17:59 – And you know, of course over the years it’s been refined, but I’m a firm believer that you are really setting your coach up either to not optimize their development or really just kind of stunt their development as a coach. The goal, just like you have for a client whenever they first join your gym, is the same as you should have for a new coach that is going to be joining your staff. The goal is to build confidence over time. And the only way that you do that is by layering on complexity over time. So you don’t want to throw them into you know, a situation where they’re not only dealing with a variable lesson and a variable audience, you want to start with the simplest approach possible. Teach them this one thing to this one person. They build confidence, they feel competent, they know that what they’re doing is right because they can see that one client in front of them getting results and getting better.

Josh: 18:59 – If you just throw them to the wolves and say, OK, well they’ve shadowed, now we’re going to put you in front, you know, on basically what I like to call the stage, as you’re coaching in front of a group, you’re on the stage, 10 or 12 people, you’re, I mean, you’re really putting basically the fate of those 10 or 12 people on that one coach. And I just no longer think that that is the right approach anymore because I’ve seen it so many times, and this is a much better way, and you know, from a left-brain logical standpoint, it just makes sense, man.

Greg: 19:38 – Josh, I am gonna let you know, I have to basically—all the time I’ve invested into my advanced theory course and my internship process is now going to basically be thrown out the window and rewrite all of it because, and all the time and effort and money that’s gone into it because, for me, I believe in this 100%. It makes complete sense. Especially, I mean, if you’re a CrossFit gym owner, you totally understand. Making sure that first squat is correct and then making sure can they do it again even without increasing that intensity yet. Or I mean complex, being more complex and having more variability in it. So, uh, thank you. Not thank you, but thank you; I’m going to have to go back and redo all of this.

Josh: 20:24 – Or you could just sign up for Two-Brain Coaching, man.

Greg: 20:28 – Exactly. Which actually right after this break we’re going to get back with Josh and we’re going to talk about what are the current available things that we can do at Two-Brain Coaching to level up your staff or someone new coming on. So we’ll be back with Josh right after this.

Chris: 20:42 – Hey guys, it’s Chris Cooper. If you’ve ever run out of money, you know that it affects every single corner of your life, all of your relationships, your business, even your self-worth. And so when I found a mentor in 2009, I said, I want to share this gift with everyone. Since then, I’ve been building and refining and improving a mentorship practice that we now call Two-Brain Business. We break our mentorship into several stages. The first stage is the Incubator, which is a 12-week sprint to get your foundation built, to get you started on retention and employee programs and finding the best staff, putting them in the best roles, training them up to be successful, and then recruiting more clients. It’s an amazing program. It is the culmination of over a decade of work. It’s also the sum of best practices from over 800 gyms around the world. These aren’t just my ideas anymore. What we do is track with data what’s working for whom and when, and we test new ideas against that data to say, is this actually better? Then when ideas have proven themselves conclusively, then we put it in our Incubator or Growth or Tinker programs. I just wrote “Founder, Farmer, Tinker, Thief” to define who should be doing what in what stage of entrepreneurship. But no matter where you are, the Incubator is your first 12-week sprint to get as far as possible in your business. We’re a mentorship practice for one reason: Mentorship is what works. We work with gym owners for one reason: Because you have the potential to change the world with us, and I hope you do.

Greg: 22:11 – All right, we are back. So Josh, let’s talk about this. What are the things that are available right now, and we’ve had you on before, we’ve talked about that First Degree of someone coming in and we can talk about that real quick, but then also moving forward, what are those other things?

Josh: 22:30 – Yeah, so we’ve actually got a couple of options right now and I hope I have permission to let the cat out of the bag on this. If not, then maybe I’ll get in trouble, but I doubt it. But so essentially if you’re a current Two-Brain client in the Growth stage right now, you are actually going to be gifted a brand-new master class for training coaches. This is something that I’m putting together for all of our Two-Brain clients. And it would best be described as here’s how you do it, now go and do it for your coaches option. So we’re gonna provide you with the blueprint. We’re going to say this is how you find, hire and train your staff. This is how to build meaningful careers for them. We’re gonna give you the templates, all this kind of stuff. And then basically you are responsible for putting these things into practice. So we’re going to teach you how to do it and then you’re going to do it. So that’s option number one. That’s going to be out very, very soon for current Growth clients. They’re going to have free access to that. So that’s pretty awesome.

Greg: 23:36 – It’s pretty awesome. Now, but what happens if you’re like me, I don’t have time to do that. I don’t have time to turn around and build everything out, possibly. And I really need something that’s more of a done-for-me version, so I can really maximize my EHR, my effective hourly rate.

Josh: 23:56 – Yeah. Greg, it’s funny because that’s exactly, you know, the itch that I had to scratch for myself is that I wanted something that I could implement, put into place and have a done-for-you option. And so that’s actually what is available through right now. It’s a piece of cake. You go to the website, check it out, sign them up, and they are guided from the moment that they sign up until the point that it is time for them to basically show their stuff off for you and coach for you. And yes, there is shadowing broken down. There is homework. They’re going to be turning things in. They’re going to have assignments. There is a lot of work that they’re going to be doing behind the scenes and in your gym, but you are not going to have to be there to micromanage.

Josh: 24:47 – Now, I do realize that some owners don’t want to be completely hands off. They want to know, hey, what are my coaches learning? I want to make sure that, number one, that it’s valuable. And probably most importantly that it aligns with their vision and what they’re looking for from a coach. So what we put together is an owner’s handbook and that’s available for free for anybody that’s interested to learn more. You know, maybe you’re not quite ready to invest the money, you just want to see what they’re gonna be learning, then reach out. We will be more than happy to send you the owner’s handbook so you can take a look at it and see. But if you are ready to sign up, then yeah, go to, but you can navigate your way there. And right now what’s available is the First-Degree program, which takes somebody and preps them to coach your fixed lesson plan, one-on-one, your on-ramp program, put another way, and the Second-Degree course, which preps them to coach any group fitness offering that you have.

Greg: 25:55 – Wait, hold on. I want to backtrack on that for a second. And really that second point that you just made of any fitness program. So you’re telling me that I can put somebody into my Sweat, which is my boot camp. They can go through that Second Degree and be able to take on any of those group classes, including my CrossFit, including, I mean any literally, I mean, any program that I wanted to bring on, dumbbells and diapers or whatever it is, they’d be able to coach any of those classes?

Josh: 26:25 – Yeah. So the goal again, you know, with the principle approach is that we want you to be able to teach any, you know, fitness methodology, group fitness class that you can think of. So if it’s CrossFit, if it’s Zumba, if it’s diapers and dumbbells, if it’s sweat, if it’s a 30-minute quick fit, a 45, a 60-minute thing, yeah, Second Degree will take care of that. And I don’t want to spoil the really good part, but if you’re a gym that already is insured through Affiliate Guard, your coaches are covered if they go through first or Second Degree, they are already covered insurance wise.

Greg: 27:11 – Whoa, that’s definitely huge because as a gym owner, if I have contractors and I’m having them get their own insurance policies or if I’m saying, hey, I’m going to take the burden and say I’m going to cover anybody that trains here, but I gotta make sure my insurance company says, hey, yeah, you can have so and so train here, they usually have to have a certification. So you’re telling me basically that each one of these programs so far, and I know we’re building out more throughout this process, degree one or one degree, First Degree and Second Degree are technically certified through Affiliate Guard to say, hey, yeah, we will cover what, what you guys are doing.

Josh: 27:52 – Yeah, 100% and you know, this is actually really cool man. Affiliate Guard, I was just talking to them recently and let’s say that you’re a gym that isn’t insured through them. That’s OK. You can actually ensure one of your coaches if they have a Two-Brain Coaching certification for roughly 150 bucks for the entire year. 150 bucks for the year and they are covered insurance wise through Affiliate Guard.

Greg: 28:19 – That’s amazing. I mean, that’s pennies. I wish, I wish my insurance policy was that, but it is not. And I will say it’s definitely not expensive for even a big gym insurance plan, but $150 is nothing.

Josh: 28:36 – Yeah. Yeah. They really put together quite a package for us, so we’re super excited to be partnered with them.

Greg: 28:44 – And I wanted to go back to one other thing you said. And that was really what you were talking about, the different options of having First Degree and Second Degree and really the Second Degree portion. And you talked about how it was going to cover basically any fitness program that you have. And that kind of dives back into that first thing we talked about, methods and principles, and that’s where you’re saying the methodology of CrossFit is great, but if you have the methodology of Zumba or the methodology of a boot camp, whatever that’s gonna be, you’ve built this program not around one of those things. You’ve built it around principles so that literally anyone can come through this program from any type of fitness program and still do amazing with it and still be able to utilize all the information.

Josh: 29:30 – Absolutely. Yeah. That was the goal. Because if we just teach to, you know, one methodology, then you are really limited in scope as a coach. You know, like what happens if you’re a Pilates instructor and that is what you learn how to coach and that’s all you know how to coach and three or four or five years down the road you’re like, ah, I really don’t want to do that anymore. OK, well now I’ve gotta go learn how to coach something else and I’ve got to go take this specific course to be able to coach this other thing. With Two-Brain coaching, the principles are universal. So the same things that you would use to get people fit or to get people to their goals and using a Pilates methodology can also be used to do it with a Zumba or a CrossFit or a kettlebell or Olympic weightlifting methodology. The only thing that I would say is that, you know, you might want to go take a course so that you know the ins and outs of that particular methodology, but from a learning how to actually apply it and work with clients and use it to get results, that’s the service, the coaching service that we provide.

Greg: 30:47 – What—I want to talk about two benefits, and one of those is definitely the benefit from an owner standpoint. So myself. But before that, because I do care about my people more than anything, I really do. I care about my coaches, making sure they’re getting training. I’m trying to build out new things for them all the time and I feel like I can never do enough to make sure that I’m giving them the best opportunities out there. But so from an owner’s standpoint, but really from a coach’s standpoint, what is the coach ROI benefit that they’re getting from these programs?

Josh: 31:20 – Man, that’s such a great question, Greg. You know, we thought about this a lot in the development of Two-Brain Coaching and I haven’t seen it out there from anybody else, but it’s really important that if somebody is going to make an investment in something, you know, like the First Degree program or the Second or you know, not to give too much away, but Third and Fourth that will be out before the end of the year, I want the coach to truly understand that if I pay $149 for the First Degree program, you know, what can I expect to get back? You know, how long is it going to take me to make that money back if the coach is the one who buys that. So for the First Degree program, after talking to hundreds of gym owners now for several years based around what their on-ramp cost is and what a coach makes, if a coach gets to do one on-ramp client, so to take them through the gym’s on-ramp process, on average if they just take one person through it, they have now paid back the money that it costs them to go through the First Degree course.

Josh: 32:32 – Then everything that they do after that is just icing on the cake. So one client you take through on-ramp and it’s paid for itself. The Second Degree course, let’s just say that you’re working at a gym and you’re coaching their group classes and you’re paid roughly 20 bucks a class. If you’re coaching five sessions a week, you’re going to have that paid off in about six weeks. So Second Degree course is 599. You’re getting paid 20 bucks a class to coach groups. Guess what? You’re going to have that thing paid off in about six weeks or roughly 30 sessions. Here’s the bonus part that I haven’t told anybody about. We are actually teaching you how to develop and run your own specialty program within the Second Degree course and we’re going to give them—at kind of a surprise point in the course they’re going to unlock access to five specialty course templates that they can use and implement at their gym right away. But if they just coach one specialty program, they’re going to have it paid off in six sessions. So that’s a huge ROI for a coach because I know for myself, when I was starting out, I wanted to know, hey, if I’m investing this much into education, continuing education, you know, what does that look like from a money back in my pocket standpoint? And so that’s what we can say from the coach’s perspective.

Greg: 34:04 – What about, I mean, that’s a huge benefit from a coach standpoint, but now I’m going to say what about me? What about as the business owner, what is the ROI that I’m getting back from this?

Josh: 34:13 – Yeah, so I think this is actually best explained through a story. We’ve got a gym that has sent one of their new coaching prospects through the First Degree course, and I was talking to this gym owner about a month ago and she said, you know, the funniest thing happened, part of the homework that they do in this First Degree course is they’re learning to how to sit down and talk to somebody, you know, kind of in a consultation-type format or what we would say in Two-Brain is like that No-Sweat Intro, but the homework for them is to practice just having these conversations, you know, learning about these prospective kind of play clients and they’re tasked with doing it with friends and family members. And you know, role playing is always a little bit funny and nerve-wracking. And honestly, Greg, as an owner sometimes I’m like, ah, role playing is kind of, you know, useless and I don’t really get a whole lot out of it personally—until I heard this.

Josh: 35:18 – So I was talking to this owner and she said, you’ll never believe what happened. This coach was doing her practice role playing for consultations or No-Sweat Intros. She was doing it with her roommate who was her best friend and apparently she did such a good job that this roommate signed up to be a member at the gym. So you know, and their on-ramp package at their gym was $299. So right then and there, not only did it pay for itself, you know, but the coach is also going to get paid. So $149 to do First Degree. This coach was just practicing some of the homework, sold somebody on an on-ramp package and paid for itself two times over. So from an ownership standpoint, knowing that things like that are occurring, that’s all the ROI that I need to know about.

Josh: 36:10 – Now for the Second Degree, to me what it comes down to is coaching is all about retention. You know, is the basic that it boils down to. If you get results for your clients, they’re going to stick around. If you are a gym owner and you have a coach that has gone through the Second Degree program, if they just get at an average revenue per member of 150 bucks, so if you’ve got four clients that pay 150 bucks, if four clients stay one month longer than they might not have beforehand, it pays for itself.

Greg: 36:47 – Wow. That, I mean, that right there is worth every single penny. I guess my final question, so probably people out there and we’ll wrap it up here, they’re probably asking, OK, there’s First Degree, there’s Second Degree, possibly Third and Fourth and others later on, do I have to have my coach go through First Degree before they can go to Second Degree?

Josh: 37:11 – Yes. And actually there’s a very couple of very good reasons. Number one is that the language that we use in Second Degrees starts in the First Degree and we want that to be consistent throughout. Number two, we are big, humongous believers in having a beginner’s mind, and even if you’re somebody who has been coaching for several years, it is always a great idea to revisit the basics. So First Degree first, Second Degree next; they build on one another. So remember, we go back to what we were talking about towards the very beginning of the podcast is we want to layer on complexity. I don’t want to jump you right into some of the more deeper topics in the Second Degree, even if you’re somebody like me who’s been coaching for you know, almost two decades now. When I was putting together the First Degree program, I was like, oh man, I haven’t thought about things like this, you know, in so long and I learned so much just from my standpoint of putting the course together. So, it is highly valuable for anybody, whether it’s a new coach that you’re thinking about bringing on or somebody that is a head coach. As a refresher of the basics, if I’m an owner, I want a coach who is not afraid to always revisit the basics and you know, refine them over time.

Greg: 38:40 – Agreed. Now if somebody wants to sign up for Two-Brain Coaching, they’re not in Two-Brain, but they’re a gym owner out there that’s like, you know what, I need to get my hands on this. I need to get my coaches in this. I don’t have the time. I don’t have anything built out that I need to be able to do it, can they join it? And what’s the way for them to contact you to be able to jump onto Two-Brain Coaching?

Josh: 39:06 – Yeah, absolutely. So, they can do a couple of different things, if they, you know, are like, yep, I’m sold. I want to just go ahead and sign up right now, they can go to and then you have the two options for First and Second Degree right there. If they are like, ah, I liked what I heard. I want to hear more from Josh himself. You can go to again and then right there on the homepage in the middle, you can’t miss it, is a spot to book a free call. Just a quick little consult for 15 minutes. You and I will talk face to face and I will answer all the questions that you have about the course happily. Or if you’re like, eh, maybe I just want to get some questions answered via email, and you can reach me at

Greg: 39:57 – Awesome, Josh. Thank you again for jumping on. I love always talking to you and having our conversations and stuff like that. I love what you’re doing with Two-Brain Coaching and I can’t wait to see a Third Degree, Fourth Degree and whatever is created after then even. So I’m super excited and I can’t wait to hear what else is going on. But thank you so much for jumping on Two-Brain Radio and sharing Two-Brain Coaching with us.

Josh: 40:21 – My pleasure, Greg. Thanks again for having me, man.

Greg: 40:25 – Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. Make sure to subscribe to receive the most up-to-date episodes wherever you get your podcasts from. To find out how we can help create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at


Greg Strauch will be here every Thursday with the Two-Brain Radio Podcast.

Two-Brain Marketing episodes come out Mondays, and host Mateo Lopez focuses on sales and digital marketing. 

On Wednesdays, Sean Woodland tells the best stories in the CrossFit community on Two-Brain Radio With Sean Woodland.

Thanks for Listening!

To share your thoughts:

To help out the show:

  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.
  • Subscribe on iTunes.
Removing Speed Bumps

Removing Speed Bumps

In this series, I’ve been talking about building your business flywheel and your personal flywheel. I told you how to get each one turning, how to build momentum and then how to keep it going forever.

Now it’s time to talk about the things that stop your flywheel.


Flats, Potholes, Roadblocks, Detours


First, of course, it’s hard to push a poorly shaped wheel.

Here’s your business flywheel, as a refresher:A yellow circle as a representation of a business "flywheel."There are six handles on the flywheel. Push any one and the wheel turns faster—unless one is missing: Then you have a flat spot. It’s not a wheel at all. It requires ridiculous work to make one simple turn, and you can’t speed up because you’re flat.

For years, marketing was the flat spot on the wheel for many gym owners. You’d upgrade your team through weekend certifications. You’d keep clients longer because you gave them amazing experiences. You’d sign up 100 percent of the people who came through the door. But … almost no one was coming through the door.

So you’d push really hard through the “get more leads” part of the wheel. You’d put out enormous effort. You’d run a short-term challenge or something and make just enough money to keep the wheel barely moving. Phew! Then you’d hit the next flat spot: Your staff would get burned out and leave.

It’s pretty hard to push a hexagon down the road. But that’s what most gym owners are doing every day. We fix that problem in the Incubator.


Severe Tire Damage?

Now the wheel is turning smoothly, and you’re working hard to speed it up. You’re getting leads and signing them up. You’re teaching your vision to your staff and the local community, and it’s sinking in. They get it. You’re streamlining operations and giving every client the same excellent value. Faster and faster the wheel turns …

… and then—bam!—you stop dead. Or you hit a bump and lose most of your momentum.

Those bumps could be:

– Low rates.
– Toxic clients.
– The wrong coaches.
– Your inability to make hard decisions.
– Your unwillingness to have hard conversations.
– Your cash flow runs out.
– Your fear.

Of course, your personal flywheel can also hit bumps: your home life, your fitness, your health—these can all derail you.


Can You Do the Hard Things?


Your job as a leader is to knock the bumps off your flywheel and clear the road ahead. Your success as a leader is 100 percent dependent on your willingness to do these hard things. In fact, it’s the only thing that matters.

It doesn’t matter how much you know, or read or watch. It doesn’t matter how much you pay your mentor. All that matters is your ability to do these hard things.

Can you work hard? Of course you can: As a fitness entrepreneur, you’re used to hard work. You can grind. You can do it for 16 hours a day. But these aren’t the truly hard things: These are the “easy hard” things.

The “hard hard” things are firing a coach, raising rates or telling a client “this isn’t going to work anymore.”

The “hard hard” things don’t usually get easier because they’re big. And they’re rare. You don’t get a lot of practice doing them.

The “hard hard” things are the things that move the flywheel. Not “grinding.” Not reading 1,000 books every year.


Help With Hard-Hard Decisions

After working with thousands of fitness entrepreneurs, I know my value as a mentor really comes down to this: Can I help you do the hard-hard things?

We publish information and education every single day. I get three to five emails back every day (and I love them—thank you!). If you follow the instructions in these emails, you will push your flywheel. You will get results.

But those results pale in comparison to the results you’ll get with a mentor. Because experience shows you where to push. And empathy puts another hand on the wheel.

Mentors remove obstacles. Let’s travel this road together.


Other Articles in This Series

How to Build an Unstoppable Business
Building Your Personal Flywheel
The Flywheel Turns on Trust

Two-Brain Radio: The Morning Chalk Up With Justin LoFranco

Two-Brain Radio: The Morning Chalk Up With Justin LoFranco

Sean: 00:05 – Hi everybody. Welcome to another edition of Two-Brain Radio with Sean Woodland. On today’s episode, I speak with the founder of the Morning Chalk Up, Justin LoFranco. But first, Chris Cooper is not the fittest person who ever walked the Earth. He has never recorded a world-record snatch. His Fran time is—it’s just OK. But Chris does hold a gym record. He’s written the best-selling fitness business books of all time. Based on his experience as a gym owner and thousands of free calls with other fitness entrepreneurs, Chris put together four books that can help you make money and live the life you want. This isn’t smoke-blowing without substance. These books have helped thousands, and they can help you. Head over to Amazon and check them out. You’re looking for “Two-Brain Business,” “Two-Brain business 2.0,” “Help First” and “Founder, Farmer, Tinker, Thief.” These are best-selling books based on hard data and experience, and they can help you find success. Pick one up on Amazon today.

Sean: 01:13 – Justin LoFranco is the man who started the Morning Chalk Up all by his lonesome in 2016. In the last four years, It has become part of every CrossFitter’s morning ritual and the daily newsletter is emailed out worldwide to 85,000 subscribers. Justin and I talk about how his life working in the U.S. government helped prepare him for his current endeavor, how he was able to build the Morning Chalk Up into its current state and what the future of the site looks like as we get deeper into the 2020 CrossFit Games season. Thanks for listening. Justin, thanks so much for joining me today man. How you doing?

Justin: 01:52 – I’m doing excellent, Sean. Thanks for having me on.

Sean: 01:54 – You bet. A lot of people obviously know you from the Morning Chalk Up, but there’s a whole Justin LoFranco history before you even got to the Morning Chalk Up, what were you doing before you decided to start your current endeavor?

Justin: 02:05 – Yeah, that’s kind of an interesting tale. It started by way of Washington DC working the United States house of Representatives, which is also coincidentally when I found CrossFit for the first time, or rather when I started doing CrossFit. This was end of 2008 when I moved there and I started working in Congress and I was a press aide for a number of years there. And then went onto some campaigns and went onto congressional committee. And just kind of made my way seven years through politics and continued to rise in the ranks of doing that.

Justin: 02:41 – My final job was actually in Madison, Wisconsin, working for the governor when he was running for president in the 2016 campaign. And once that ended and we lost, I decided not to take any new jobs, any new opportunities inside of politics. I took two months and I went to Italy. I worked on a farm, fed animals, you know, lived up in a mountain somewhere and I basically did nothing. And just kind of soul-searched for a little while. Like just kind of a good sabbatical. And then I decided I was going to move home. So I moved in with my parents. I started doing some consulting work to make some money and then got this idea for a newsletter that just would send out, you know, five-to-seven-minute read daily taking all of the things that are happening across this big global community and global sport.

Justin: 03:35 – Put it into a pretty easy-to-read newsletter and spammed a couple hundred people unsuspectingly on day one, I think Rory was in there because I found his email address somewhere, and the rest is history. So kind of a interesting way of getting into it. But you know.

Sean: 03:51 – Let’s go back a second cause there’s so much there I want to talk about, first off, what was it about working in the government that appealed to you?

Justin: 03:58 – Well, so I was a political science student and I had always had a fascination with politics, with process. Just kind of how things get, how the sausage gets made. That’s a phrase we typically throw out in school. And so I was drawn to it. I did an internship my junior year of college and I went out to Washington DC, had a internship in the House of Representatives, my local Congressman, and saw that process, kind of was enamored by it.

Justin: 04:30 – Just really intrigued by this hard-charging mentality. You’re just kind of immersed in this political environment and you’re reading constantly. You’re working constantly, you’re drinking coffee, you’re just kind of like, it’s kind of crazy. It fit my personality really well. And I loved it and I loved the energy and just the, you’re surrounded by these just smart people who are throwing themselves into the muck in these debates and in these issues and stuff. And so I actually came originally wanting to do policy because I loved getting into the minutia. I love just studying individual kind of policy angles and bills and history and how to figure out a way to weave a new piece of legislation through that and figure out a way to make it stick. But press ended up becoming a much better knack for me.

Justin: 05:18 – So I started on the digital side of press. This was in the emergence of Twitter. This was in the emergence of YouTube and Facebook as political tools, as platforms for mass communication. And I began honing my skill in that area, which is probably why I run a digital newsletter and not in print. And that draw was just the energy, you know, I just loved it. I loved that rat race and working your butt off all, you know, day and night. It kind of sang to me. I don’t know.

Sean: 05:46 – What was it that made you decide to leave then after all that experience?

Justin: 05:50 – Well, so seven years in politics is like 14 years in the regular world. So my last jobs, the first meeting of my day started at 6:45 conference call, senior staff. And then my first in-person was at 7:15 in the morning.

Justin: 06:06 – And I never even left the office until seven or eight at night. And that was on a regular basis and I’m sure I didn’t stop working until the time I actually went to sleep. And that happened seven days a week. So just imagine the burnout rate there and it definitely draws a certain kind of person who can, you know, really decide not to do anything else in their life right now. Forego relationships, friendships, you know, you’re married to the campaign. That’s the mentality. And I used to say this thing, you know, every day is Monday and that’s kind of just, you’re never gonna get ahead of the work and it just kind of burns you out a little bit. But it wasn’t that that made me leave. I ultimately still really enjoyed what I was doing, but I wanted to build something that wasn’t for a campaign cycle or for an electoral cycle or for a two-year term for a member of Congress and then go back and go for reelection again.

Justin: 07:04 – I wanted to build something that was a little bit more permanent and watch it grow into maturity. And I’m here looking at almost being four years in now at the end of February. So I’m like two congressional campaign cycles in is basically what I’m at. And now you get to watch this thing grow and that’s super cool. And I wanted to put that time, energy and effort into something long term and not just go back and forth and kind of six months, eight months, nine months, and then let it die. And then you kind of pick it back up in another 18 months when the cycle picks up again. I also really was drawn towards building a business and you don’t go into politics to build business. You go into politics to build politics. And so there was an opportunity for me to do that and I felt like it was the right time to step away.

Sean: 07:50 – How did you find CrossFit?

Justin: 07:51 – 2006, I went to Bible University, a small private Christian school in Los Angeles. My buddy who lived next door, Matt Bandwert, was on the baseball team. He just, you know, we were in the weight room. He was telling us about this hokey little kettlebell swinging club that he was aware of. And this was before the Games. So, you know, he was very early to catch onto it, but he was a Orange County, Southern California dude. And we tried a little bit of it, tried a Helen, terrible, didn’t stick with me back then. It was just, we watched him do it in the gym. We watched him practicing, you know, stringing up his own rings on the pull-up bar so that he could do dips or false-grip muscle-ups from a support position. And he kept doing it. I just kept doing my weightlifting thing, running every now and then. And then in about 2010, I saw photos of him competing at Sectionals and I was like, dude.

Justin: 08:55 – And I was in the House of Representatives at the time, so I was like, you know what, I gotta get back into that. That’s pretty awesome. And I’m training for a marathon and it’d be great additional strength training for my lower legs in the winter months when it’s really hard to run. And you know, you can’t—it’s East Coast, so it’s a 20-degree day. It’s not nice to go running in the dark at 7:00 p.m. in Washington DC when it’s that cold outside. So I was like, this would be great. It gets me off the treadmill and I can do some strength training. So I started doing it on my own, making an absolute mockery of form, and cleans looked like I should no longer be able to use my wrists, I’m sure, if I could go back and look at it today, but I started doing the basics and cherry-picking workouts and being like, OK, I’ve got equipment for this or I have no idea what that is so we’re not going to do that.

Justin: 09:45 – And you know, modifying to how my body felt. It was a lot of burpees in the corner and pull-ups from the pull-up bar and learning to kip by reading the Journal or looking at other athletes doing it in videos and that was where my journey started. It was funny cause it’s just you know, like four floors down under ground and in this little gymnasium in the House of Representatives and that’s where I kicked it off.

Sean: 10:09 – How did that then lead you to come up with the idea for the Morning Chalk Up?

Justin: 10:13 – So, in politics we have these morning newsletters, we call them tip sheets. Basically start the day, they set the tone for what is going to be driving the conversation inside of the, you know, 12 square miles that is Washington, D. C. And one of the most famous ones now is called the Political Playbook, which is something that I read religiously.

Justin: 10:35 – As soon as I get up, 6:37 in the morning, it’s the first thing I read. It takes me probably 20 or 30 minutes to read through it in the morning because it’s pretty lengthy. But it basically condenses all of the major elements that are going to be driving the news conversation today. So Facebook is going to be at this hearing. It’s going to be at 9:00 a.m. You know, here’s some of the implications of that conversation. Here’s some of the advanced testimony that Mark Zuckerberg is going to be delivering in his opening remarks. Here’s some of the legislation up for votes and why that’s significant and why it matters. It really frames this for your political staffer or anybody who’s working on K street, which is like lobbying or issue advocacy. And they kind of can understand that. So there are a number of different ones and I read pretty much all of them and Playbook was the most inspirational for me.

Justin: 11:24 – And I adopted the idea of bringing all of the news together into a single location. You know, you’ve got elite athletes putting PRs or big lifts or other videos out on their social channels. You’ve got individual gyms talking about what’s going on in their community. Fundraising efforts or really positive, great news. Sometimes some bad news and sad news. What’s going on in the Games environment? What kind of dates you should keep in mind, like things that are coming up. Well the Open’s kicking off now or you know, Regionals countdown in two weeks from now and here’s where you can watch it. And giving people a platform where they could access all this information. So the inspiration came from that. It was something I read every day for years, literally years in politics. And I woke up with it. I sometimes went to sleep with it.

Justin: 12:13 – It came out early in the morning and it was simple. It was a lot of hard work with a simple idea and it solved the basic problem in my industry in politics. And I just thought, oh, you know what, it could probably solve a basic problem if someone’s really looking to figure out everything that’s going on today, then, you know, I don’t think there’s anything out there. I looked, there wasn’t. And so I built it.

Sean: 12:35 – At this point you were a man with an idea. How did you then turn that idea into a reality?

Justin: 12:40 – Well, thankfully I had learned how to do a lot of things with no money, no staff or support. And take something from idea into conception into reality by working in politics. You know, in Congress, you have no money. You have no budget, you have no staff, you don’t have professional designers, artists, photographers, if you want to create it for your member of Congress, if you want to create it as a communications tool, you want to get something out on social, you need to figure out how to do it on your own. It really allows you to become like a social-media all-star or whatever. You know, you learn a little bit of graphic design, you learn a lot about how to write and write well, learn how to manage a newsletter, learn how to manage a website and figure out the resources to build that. And I had taken that to hyper drive. And so, really it was because of doing that job that it enabled me to learn a lot of tools and figure out how to do something without seed money.

Justin: 13:43 – I had a little bit of a government pension that I liquidated from my years of working in the House. And so I took that, I paid off any extra bills that I had and I was basically scotch-free at that point. And I took the rest of the money and I poured it into—and the rest of the money’s like 10 grand—over time into Morning Chalk Up, into kind of, OK, you know, we need a new ESP, it’s gonna cost us this amount of money, we’ll do a little bit of Facebook advertising to let people know, kind of a hundred, 200 bucks a month, not very much, you know, oh, here’s some other things that we can buy that are nice to have. And then sort of bootstrapped it. Buy it was that experience of basically having to think without money, take money out of the equation. How do you get the job done, or take what you think you’re going to need to accomplish it and then cut it down to by 90% and then figure out how to get it done. And so it was that training that I had had in a budgetless environment that allowed me to do that. So there were no fancy things; there still really aren’t meaning fancy things. But without that, I wouldn’t have known how to piece together, marshal all of my together to produce a product. And really when it came down to it, the path to success was really simple. To getting it out the door. I took 24 hours, I literally took 24 hours. I use this concept of basically this tech concept of throw it out there and then develop, iterate it over time, just develop it. And so if you can commit to doing the work product every single day, then the design is secondary.

Justin: 15:17 – Get the product out, figure out how to do it before you make it beautiful and perfect. I didn’t have a staff to make it beautiful and perfect and it would take me months to basically get it to the point where it could be launched. So instead I said, look, this is good enough. We’ll get a website landing page so that people can sign up, which looks like trash. We’ll get a web template built and then we will start creating content and then just start creating it and be like, I’m committing myself to three months of writing this thing every single day. And I actually did it seven days a week back then. And then I pared it back to five as a more appropriate workload.

Sean: 15:50 – How did you decide what that content was going to be early on?

Justin: 15:57 – Well, I think you have to take people’s temperature. Like I said, it’s very iterative. So we start with a basic template and tried to figure out buckets like, all right, help people understand what it is you’re trying to tell them. So we had a couple of different buckets that allowed some form to the newsletter. And then I just put on Google news alerts, I started talking to friends, I built a tips email address so that people could send us tips. And then I just started figuring out what people needed to know. Like, what is the most important information for my audience? And once I got to asking that question, I had to say, well, who is my audience? And then I basically developed distinct audience groups that I wanted to cater to every single day. So I had elite athletes and I was like, OK, well what do elite athletes need or want to know on a regular basis?

Justin: 16:51 – Then what about coaches or box owners, what are they curious about and what kind of drives the conversation for them? All right, great. All right. What about other media, people that are writing about CrossFit? So guys like you, Sean. And then obviously any of the other blogs or podcasters out there or video personalities out there, what would they kind of find interesting? So now we’re at three distinct audiences and then, you know, what if you run a company inside of the industry, like a FitAid or RPM or you know, Rogue, what do you want to know about? What kind of things can we put out there that would be industry-related news? Hirings and firings, somebody’s you know, launching a new product. And then the last thing is just average CrossFitters.

Justin: 17:39 – Just people that show up every day, you know, they show up one hour, they get the best hour of their day. They show up, they work hard, they go home. What do they want to see. And so I created those five buckets which are still the exact same five buckets today. And then I was constantly looking for information or ideas or content that was going to help them do their job better or interest them. So, you know, the regular everyday CrossFitter is going to be interested in, you know, some elite athlete-type stuff. But you know, maybe some also product launch stuff that would go to the industries. The coaches might be interested in that as they may want to carry a new FitAid product or beverage product in their gym.

Justin: 18:21 – So that was kind of how I bucketed. And then everything became very simple. Like am I serving the interests of my audience? Am I actually creating content for them that helps them do their job better or that makes them want to come back? And when your open rate gets higher and increases and people stick around for longer and they begin to share it to their friends and your audience retention grows then you know you’re doing the right thing. And we also included some surveys to say, hey, how are we doing? Let us know. Like what kind of stuff would you like to see? What things are we missing? What are we not touching on? So it was really, really very important for me to have created the buckets. Those audiences allowed me to understand—like if you’re just talking to elite athletes, then there’s a whole bunch of other stuff in my newsletter that is not necessary. But we try every single day to get something for all five of those people and make sure that they find value in what we’re delivering.

Sean: 19:13 – We will be back with more from the founder of the Morning Chalk Up, Justin LoFranco after this.

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Sean: 20:17 – You mentioned that you just kind of spammed everything out there when you started this, what was the initial reaction to that?

Justin: 20:29 – I’m trying to remember. I think that some people were just like, oh, OK. Like I don’t think anybody had ever seen anything like it before. I took a lot of—what I did is went to like the last couple of the CrossFit Games, and I looked at all the gyms that qualified and then I found a whole bunch of coaches’ email addresses from all those gyms.

Justin: 20:54 – And I was like, they’re probably going to be interested in stuff that we’re talking about at the Games and stuff. And it was originally very Games-focused. It was meant to be like a very elite athlete focus, cause I came from the political world and I’m thinking, OK, you know, what’s driving the conversations, what are all the important people are doing? That ended up not being where we wanted to put our focus long term, but it was how it got started. And so I just kind of found these folks and emailed them and I got a couple—I wish I still had. I’m sure I’d have to dive really, really far back. Well we mostly got good feedback as far as like, oh, this is cool. I never seen this before. And I think it just kind of popped out of nowhere and so people had no idea where it was coming from or who was doing it. I wish I knew though. I’m sure that Rory’s like one of the first and oldest subscribers, Russ Greene, too. So I guess you could ask Russ what he thought of it back then. I don’t remember. I talked to Russ in Georgetown. I had met him through some other political stuff because he moved back to Washington DC and I asked him, hey, what do you think about this idea? And he’s like, um, yeah, OK. I guess it could be kind of cool and I don’t know what he thought of it after that, but then I put his email on it and started emailing him and I think he’s still subscribed, so I should ask him.

Sean: 22:13 – Yeah, I’m sure he’s still on there. How did you then go about growing your subscriber base and your audience?

Justin: 22:20 – Well, that’s the million-dollar question cause that’s what everybody’s trying to do, and we look at our subscribers as our customers. And so first what I started doing was I did paid-for advertising on Facebook. I was just like, we gotta get it out there. We don’t have budget to go to local events and and talk about it. And even if we did, the cost per subscriber would be astronomical because we’d spend $200 to go to an event or something like that. And if we got 200 subscribers, that’d be a dollar per subscriber, but it’s almost certain we wouldn’t get 200, you know, we didn’t have a booth or anything else like that. So I was like, we’re a digital publication, digitals’ where we gotta go.

Justin: 22:59 – And our money goes furthest. So I started doing Facebook advertising just like, hey, want to know what’s going across the globe with CrossFit, sign up for our daily newsletter, sort of, kind of pitch, and changed pitches a little bit, changed designs a little bit. And it started working and the money was being well spent and we were reaching an audience that had never seen this before and they were like, yeah, this is kinda cool. I’m interested. I want to read more. And they would sign up. And really when the change began to happen was when we focused our content after the 2016 CrossFit Games. We started focusing our content really heavily on the community and saying, look, we’re gonna go all in on the 99%, the 99% of CrossFitters in the box every day going to the gym, working out, and we’re going to start generating more content for them.

Justin: 23:54 – And then they started sharing it more. And what we realized was if we can get into a new gym, we tap into a new market. If there—at the time were 12,000 gyms in the world, if there are 12,000 gyms in the world and we only cater to 75 gyms, well then all those other markets we’re not inside of. And so every time we would get into a new gym, we realized that it was going to strengthen our ability to grow because, oh, you know, you’re a member of this gym and you’re going to some point, you’re going to share it with your coach or with a member and you’re going to say, oh, did you hear about this thing that went on at this other gym? And someone’s going to go, no, I did not. Where did you read that?

Justin: 24:37 – And they’re going to say, I read it in the Morning Chalk Up. You should go check it out. And they’ll go to our site and sign up. And so that word of mouth by focusing on community content help us to grow inside of gyms. And we really need to update the stat cause it’s like two years old. But at one point we had readers in 72 countries in 10,400 different gyms. Which is two thirds of the CrossFit gym world, which means that we communicate with more gyms on the planet than anybody else does on a daily basis.

Sean: 25:05 – The CrossFit media landscape changed drastically. I think that’s an understatement, in 2018, how did that affect the Morning Chalk Up?

Justin: 25:13 – So here’s an interesting thought in business, it’s like, figure out who you are and what you’re going to do. Right? So I talked a little bit about audiences. We knew exactly who our audiences were and we generated a product for each one of those audiences. And then you also have to decide who you’re going to be. Are you going to be a newsletter or are you going to be a big media company? Are you going to be a vlog? Are you going to be CrossFit media and compete at the time with that large production? You know, you can try to be the ESPN of CrossFit. So I had made a conscious choice that I was just going to be a newsletter. We did have a site eventually and the site got decent traffic and we put stories up there primarily because the stories were too long to fit in the newsletter, just it disrupted the flow. And then we also wanted a place where we could archive them, why put out that good content if nobody else on the internet can get it.

Justin: 26:05 – So, we were originally planning to just continue to be a newsletter. That’s it. And then we would have some site content and do some other opportunities as they arose. But when that landscape shifted, I said, you know, look the time, if we were there were ever a time, now is the time. And we’re going to now shift our effort and energy into becoming a CrossFit media company. And really going all in on that and delivering multiple stories daily, five, six or seven days a week, covering events, becoming the conversation driver of what people are discussing and what people are reading and talking about on a regular basis. Not just for the sport, but the community and the lifestyle of CrossFit, and we’re in various stages of implementing those across the board. So when that changed, the first thing that happened to me was, OK, where are we expanding next?

Justin: 27:04 – And you kind of have this vacuum environment, you’re like, OK, CrossFit used to do all of these things. We can’t afford to do any of them, but I feel like I have the pressure to do all of them. So that was the hardest thing was saying no, and saying no to this, this, this and this. And then figuring out what we were going to do and what we were going to do really well. The tendency inside of a vacuum is to try and fill all the space. Well, it’s very expensive to fill all the space and sometimes you can bankrupt yourself or you can grow too fast to the point where your core product, in our case, the newsletter, now suffers in quality because the attention and the care that it was given previously as your only product is now getting barely any, or 10% or 15 or maybe even only 50% but 50% might not be good enough.

Justin: 27:52 – So, I, you know, tried to figure out what I thought was the smartest things for us to grow into naturally and start growing into them. And it’s been a basically a year, just a shade over a year since that happened. And I think we’ve grown at a decent clip, especially considering our content production has increased significantly. Adding guys like Tommy to the staff writers roster and finding some other talented people across the industry who really wanted to take an interest in this. And we’re starting to kind of move in that direction. But obviously it was right place, right time kind of opportunity. But if we hadn’t known a lot of the important answers to business questions—who we are, what we’re doing, who our audiences are, what our business model is—we wouldn’t have been in a position to be successful for the last 12 months, or we wouldn’t even have been in position to say yes. We might’ve wanted to. We might’ve said yes, but it probably wouldn’t have been a good idea. And the last 12 months certainly would have a lot more calamitous and rocky regardless. So that’s kind of one thing I underscored a lot of people asking me the question of yeah, you seem like you’re on a big rise here. It’s like, yes, but that hard work that we put in there for three years or two and a half years of accomplishing our mission daily with discipline and moving in that trajectory was what set us up to be able to say yes successfully. And I really attribute that discipline to why we’re here today.

Sean: 29:24 – You started this all on your own. It was just you banging out these stories on your keyboard. What does your staff look like now?

Justin: 29:32 – Quite a bit bigger, thankfully. First hire was—so first writing hire was a girl named Jessica Danger, who’s at Left Coast CrossFit down in Laguna Beach, and a business partner of mine had introduced us. And that was a really important key first hire because it allowed me to get outside of writing the newsletter every single day. At that point for two and half years, I was the sole writer of content except for an occasional contribution post from somebody. And that first one was key that allowed us to get into the next couple phases. And it wasn’t really until CrossFit media went away that we even considered hiring and bringing on other people. So now we’re like, Brittany, Tommy, Jessica, me as your primary writers. Plus we’re getting, you know, some freelance work from two or three other writers. So that’s seven, four staff writers and then three freelance writers.

Justin: 30:33 – And then we have Matt and Eric on tech and design, research and analytics, like statistical analysis, which is coming in key for sports. So you know, you’re looking at like a broad network of like 12, 13 and 14 yeah. So like people are in various stages of support. Some people are just kind of in our network and they write for us time to time and occasionally and some people are really doing some hands on stuff. Now we’ve got somebody managing social, we’ve got a go-to for translating into other languages when we want to do social posts in Spanish and Portuguese. And we’ve got content writers offering a lot of different perspectives and stuff. So now I would say like on a regular basis in our Slack channel, we have like 12 people talking regularly, which is excellent.

Justin: 31:23 – And that’s allowing us to touch a lot of different stories and types and a lot of different perspectives because, you know, ultimately what I found out was that I may be really well suited to do one particular thing, like write the newsletter or do social media, but I can’t do all of them and I can’t do all of them well, but I’m uniquely positioned to drive this company forward. And so I’ve slowly been bringing on people that as I can find them that are like, yes, you’re really good at this. Like, let’s do this and let’s help plug you in and then we’ll grow it from there and just kind of bring you on as like a part-time contractor and then we’ll see what other doors open up. And that’s been a huge driver of success, allowing me to take steps back and really grow. We’re actually looking to hire like a pretty important position now, senior managing editor to really take over a large component of my editorial responsibility, which is pretty significant actually.

Justin: 32:17 – I spend about 50% of my day just talking with the reporters, reading their stories, editing, rewriting, looking at sources, fact checking, checking the newsletter on a regular basis. Like that stuff takes me hours a day and it’s very important. It’s actually what is core to who we are because take such great care in what we do and we are professionals in it. We dominate the written word space, but that requires a lot of energy and effort. And so we’re looking for somebody to actually hire to take over that responsibility so that we can grow even further so that I can go off and put my creative energy in other areas. And I think that’s a great lesson that I’ve had to learn over the last couple of years is just because you can do it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t hire somebody else to do it right.

Justin: 33:08 – There are some things that you might be excellent at, but if you’re gonna hold onto it like it’s your baby, that’s OK. But it has to be so important that you have to do it and that there isn’t something else out there that you are either not doing or should or need to be doing for your company. And that has been a new lesson for me to learn and I’m getting into that point where I’m giving up more things and more control over areas and bringing on talented people who I can teach, maybe, learn some of the things that I know and obviously bring your own skill sets and their own creative energy to the process.

Sean: 33:39 – When you look at where the Morning Chalk Up stands now, what are the things that you think you do really well?

Justin: 33:45 – I think we write extremely well. I think that when it comes to the written word, we are the best. And I would put our writing and our reporting against anybody else’s, not just in our industry, but like I think we do a very, very good job analyzing the sport and the community of CrossFit and bringing and surfacing stories that are worth discussing and talking about. Areas where we don’t do really well are in video. We’re not a video company. We never set ourselves up to be and to onboard, we’ve talked about this, to onboard like a whole new type of content takes time and energy. You think, well look, it took Morning Chalk Up three, three and a half years to be where it is today on its written content. We shouldn’t expect two or three months to be where everybody else is on video who spent the last two or three years. When it comes to writing, I think we are excellent and we’re going to continue to become even better and we’re going to hire more writers to do better writing and more types of writing. You know, when you look at it, written content isn’t going away. It’s not all visual and video. You know, companies like The Athletic who are investing literally millions of dollars in only written content. The Players Tribune, which is in discussions as a multimillion dollar buyout opportunity, is majority written content and then some video content. And so we’re going to continue to do what we do really well and not sacrifice on that while still trying to learn some new things, videos, one of them, podcasts is another. We’re not going to get into too many other things outside of that because we want to be able to cover the sport and the community. And we think those are the best ways to do it.

Sean: 35:23 – What does the upcoming year look like for you? And then everyone with whom you work at the Morning Chalk

Justin: 35:37 – Elite status airline miles is what it looks like. I mean the season’s starting, the season has started, but like the travel season—I’ve already had, I leave in two, in a day and a half for Boston for the 20.5 announcement. And then basically I go on the road almost in near perpetuity for eight months. Well, whatever it is, seven months. I have Ireland, Dubai, China or China, Dubai, excuse me. And then TBD on January. And then February, March, April, May is like, you know, Germany, Iceland, Canada, Australia, you name it. And so the season or what the next year kind of looks like for us is we are going to continue to expand the ways that we cover our sport and we’re going to try some new things. So yes, we do written content, we want to figure out some other ways to bring in the audience and engage them on this content.

Justin: 36:30 – We’re going to go to these events and we’re going to cover them in person because we believe that that while it’s more expensive to do that, ultimately the quality of that is realized. There are certain things as you know, you can’t do from a livestream if there even is a live stream. And so we’re going to go to these events. We’re sending minimum two people to each event. Sometimes we’re sending three and we are going to continue to do what we do best in those areas and cover it. Basically the goal is how can we bring fans as close to the sidelines as possible, not only with statistical analysis and stories and sideline reporting, but a whole suite of packages, maybe some more analysis and maybe some more video components. And we’re going to start experimenting with them.

Justin: 37:15 – So you’re gonna see a lot of different content depending on the landscape and depending on the opportunity in each one of these sanctional environments, we’re going to try new things and come up with a playbook that’s like, yes. And then at the CrossFit Games next year, hopefully we’ve perfected that playbook and we’re really able to offer a ton more and more people. Last year we had 11 people at the CrossFit Games for the Morning Chalk Up, 11 people, which is just, I mean, I was stressed, to say the least, with that many bodies running around, but we hope to be able to have 11 more next year that are covering from all angles. We don’t just want to do more of the same. We want to offer more interest types and more looks into what’s going on. There’s so many opportunities in this sport and community and we want to investigate all of them.

Justin: 37:59 – But I’ve talked a lot about sports. We’re also, you know, very heavy in the community aspect of CrossFit. We’ve been covering Battle Cancer. We sent a reporter out to London to cover that event. We’re doing some stuff at Tribal Clash, Tribal Clashes is an amazing organization that’s donating tens of thousands of dollars to charities worldwide. And so we’re growing our sports content while at the same time our community content, it seems like, you know, most of the things we talk about are the sports side of things because that’s newer for us. It’s only in the last 12 months. But not to neglected is the community element of which is so important, so integral to not only our success but the reason why the community is here and so strong.

Sean: 38:41 – Justin, thank you so much for doing this man. And I know everyone loves coming to your website and reading your newsletter. I mean there were times where when I was actually working at CrossFit that, you know, they weren’t talking to us. We’d get information from you, so we all really appreciate everything you’re doing and can’t wait to see what you guys have in store for the future.

Justin: 38:57 – Thanks so much Sean. Appreciate it.

Justin: 38:59 – Big thanks to Justin LoFranco for taking the time to talk with me. If you want to subscribe to the Morning Chalk Up, you can head to they are also all over social media. You can find them on Facebook, Instagram, and on YouTube. If you know me, you know I like hockey, wrestling, pro football, dogs and fitness, and I also like podcasts every week. I am fired up to bring you the very best of the fitness world on Two-Brain Radio. I’m always digging for the best stories from the most interesting people in the industry. We are also cranking out other great shows that can help you run a successful business. Every Monday, the clever guys from Two-Brain Marketing are showcasing success and serving the secret sauce that gets leads into gyms. And every Thursday we’ve got the best of the business world, people who will educate you and inspire you. So if you haven’t, please subscribe to Two-Brain Radio. Leave us a rating or a review. I would certainly appreciate it. Thanks for listening everybody, and we’ll see you next time.


On Wednesdays, Sean Woodland tells the best stories in the CrossFit community on Two-Brain Radio With Sean Woodland.

Greg Strauch will be here every Thursday with the Two-Brain Radio Podcast.

Two-Brain Marketing episodes come out Mondays, and host Mateo Lopez focuses on sales and digital marketing. 

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