Mike: 00:02 – Mateo, sell me this pen. Sell me the pen.
Mateo: 00:05 – Hey Mike.
Mike: 00:06 – Sell me the pen. C’mon, Mateo.
Mateo: 00:09 – So look, you gotta stop asking me to do these things like this.
Mike: 00:14 – No, no. Sell me the pen. Every time I ask you, you come up with this amazing way to sell the pens. Come on, give me one more. Sell the pen.
Mateo: 00:19 – I’m not a wolf of Wall Street. I’m not like, I can’t just sell you the pen. I don’t even know. I don’t even know why you need the pen. I don’t know your life story. Like I can’t sell you this pen right now, Mike.
Mike: 00:31 – But I mean, every single time I ask you about this, you end up—I buy the pen from you. I don’t know how it happens, but all of a sudden I give you $10 and I have my own pen in my hand. You’re sure you’re not going to do this?
Mateo: 00:40 – I’m pretty sure, Mike. I can’t sell you this pen right now.
Mike: 00:44 – Oh, right. It’s all right. I am not Leonardo DiCaprio. My name is Mike Warkentin from Two-Brain Media. Mateo flat-out refuses to sell me this pen. So instead we’re going to grill him on sales techniques. We’ve taken over his podcast and he’s going to be the guest this time. We’re going to dig into sales secrets with Mateo. We’ll find out how he sells pens, closes deals and makes people fitter right after this.
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Chris: 01:28 – One of my favorite finds has been ForeverFierce.com. I linked up with Matt several months ago at Forever Fierce and he had some fantastic ideas, and so he and I have put together a couple of packages that we think are really gonna help CrossFit affiliates everywhere. Two-Brain mentoring clients use Matt almost exclusively. He’s got fantastic designs and he takes all the work out of it. All that time that you spend searching the internet and Pinterest and junk like that for great CrossFit T-shirts? You don’t have to do that anymore. Matt has fixed that for you. You can put your logo on one of his templates, which are fantastic, and your clients will never know the difference. It saves you so much time that you could be using on other things like real marketing. He’ll also go so far as to remind you when it’s time to reorder. He’ll give you suggested order sizes, he’ll help you set up pre-orders so you’re not even fronting the cash from the inventory. It’s all amazing stuff built to help affiliates, and that’s why I love this guy and this company, ForeverFierce.com. They do all of Catalyst’s shirts, all the Two-Brain shirts, all the Ignite Gym shirts. They do everything for every business that I own.
Mike: 02:31 – And we are back with Mateo Lopez. Mateo has still refused to sell me the pen, but we’re going to talk marketing with him and see what he does in sales calls. Mateo, how are you doing?
Mateo: 02:39 – I’m good, Mike, how are you?
Mike: 02:41 – I’m excellent. And here is a special thing that we’re going to try on this episode. So you talked to me in a previous episode, subscribe, check our archives if you missed it, we want people to call their leads back, how fast?
Mateo: 02:53 – Right away, as soon as possible.
Mike: 02:57 – So what I’ve done here is offline, Mateo and I selected two gyms at random and we are going to book appointments in their systems. And then, well, I have my notifications on do not disturb. I am going to keep an eye on my phone and see if anyone calls or texts or messages or emails and we’ll see if by the end of the show, these two gyms call back. If they do, we’ll tell you who they were. If they don’t, we won’t shame them, but we’ll give you guys some advice on what you should do.
Mateo: 03:23 – We won’t publicly shame them.
Mike: 03:25 – No public shaming, but so I’ve entered my info here and I’m going to click this and yes, I want more info from this gym.
Mateo: 03:36 – So Mike has opted in. We’re going to see if these gyms call him back to try and get him to book an appointment.
Mike: 03:42 – Yeah. And I’m going to go back and cancel cause both of these gyms are not in my market, so I don’t want to take up any of their spaces. But, so what I’ve done is I’ve clicked through the first screen and now I’m here on a second screen where I can book an appointment with one of these two people. I’m not going to do that. Correct?
Mateo: 04:00 – We don’t want you to do that. We want them to call you and say like, hey, we saw you were interested. Let’s just get you booked.
Mike: 04:05 – OK. So I’ve hit number one. One of these is in the US market, one of these in the Canadian market. I will tell you that. And we’ll see what happens here. All right. Now this one is actually, interestingly enough, this site is oddly enough, giving me a bit of problems. So what I would give you a piece of advice right now, I’m clicking a button. Nothing’s happening. Test your site, right. Test your funnel. Mateo, do you recommend that? I’m sure you do.
Mateo: 04:34 – Yeah. You want to make sure your funnels work and everything works properly before you turn ads on. You want to make sure that if they click the submit button, something actually happens and you collect the info. And I have tons of horror stories of starting out that way before. And yeah, we get launch ads and like people, it says we’re getting leads but I’m not getting any leads. So yeah, make sure that, yeah, you gotta test your funnels before.
Mike: 05:01 – OK. So I hammered it a bunch of times and I actually just gave up on that one. I went to a different gym and I just quickly put in the information, auto filled that and I clicked through and I’m seeing their second page is asking me to book an intro. So I’m not going to book either one of these intros, but both of these gyms now have my contact info and I’ve got my phone here and we’ll see if I get anything.
Mateo: 05:20 – Very excited. We’ll see what happens.
Mike: 05:23 – I’m excited too. I saw you guys, you and John, your partner at the marketing team, I saw you guys do this at the Two-Brain summit where you had people partner up and then call each other’s gyms to see what happened. Did you ever talk to people afterwards and see what kind of response rates were to see if people could get through right away?
Mateo: 05:40 – I thought we asked everyone to like raise their hands, who picked up? It was like three people or something like that. And we want to do that because all the gym owners were there, right? Yeah. So they’re typically the ones probably handling the phones, if they’re handling the phones, right? So we want to be like, hey, this is what’s going on when you’re not there, people are probably inquiring about your gym and no one’s there to answer the questions and sell them.
Mike: 06:06 – So that was incredible. And I was talking to you before the show, if someone called me right now, I’d be on a podcast with my notifications snoozed, I wouldn’t get that and I needed to set something up for someone. So that’s the first piece of actionable advice from the show are test your funnels. Make sure they work, make sure that they do what they want every time. Make sure they’re easy to use. And the second piece is have someone there to take these calls or follow up with these leads. And if it’s you and you can’t do it, make sure you’ve got a back-up plan.
Mateo: 06:34 – Yeah, you got to have staff notifications. No matter what you use to collect leads, no matter how you gather that contact info, you got to make sure there’s a mechanism by which your staff’s being notified that hey, someone just inquired.
Mike: 06:46 – All right, well nothing yet, but we’ll give these guys a bit of time. We’re going to talk about what happens when you actually get these leads and people call it, whoa. Hold on right here, Mateo. Give me one second. I’m going to pull up. OK. So I got a 360 Fitness in Red Deer, Alberta. I have a text message. It says, Mike, we received your consultation request. Please book in here. Sideways smiley face. And it’s got a link where I can book immediately.
Mateo: 07:14 – There you go.
Mike: 07:15 – What do you think of that? That came in like, I don’t know, two minutes after?
Mateo: 07:19 – I told you my boy Jack Wheeler wouldn’t let you down.
Mike: 07:22 – Jack Wheeler 360 Fitness. So Jack, if you’re listening or if anyone knows Jack, high five to you, that is amazing.
Mateo: 07:29 – So he set up an automated SMS, it looks like. And it looks like he, yeah, they’ve set it up so that if you don’t book, you’re going to get that text right away. Like, hey, you didn’t book, so you should probably book now. And that’s great too, right? Like automations are really good, especially if like you don’t have the staff or the bandwidth in place to be by the phone 24 seven having that automation is definitely way better than nothing.
Mike: 07:53 – I’m going to guess that’s probably on a timer too where they’re waiting for me. They’ve given me a bit of time to go through that second screen. Just probably happens almost instantaneously if you want it to, but I’m going to guess just based on what I know about Jack, I’m going to guess that at some point I’m probably getting a call from a staff member.
Mateo: 08:10 – Probably at some point.
Mike: 08:11 – The only thing that might happen is I have a phone number outside the area code. They might know it’s something weird at that point, but who knows. We’ll see what happens, but either way, I’ve got a first contact here and if I wasn’t interested in that thing and maybe I stepped away from the computer. Maybe I didn’t book. Whatever reason, I now have a contact. I’m in his system and I guarantee I’m going to get some emails from Jack that’s going to tell me some awesome stuff. And I’m going to get some free stuff, right? Like he’s not just going to spam me with garbage. He’s actually going to give me some lead magnets and things that I’m probably interested.
Mateo: 08:41 – I’ve been friends with Jack for a long time. He does a lot of content. He has a lot of eBooks, a lot of like recipe books and tons of social proof. You’re probably gonna get an email with like a million before and after pictures from his programs. So yeah, so that’s great.
Mike: 08:57 – All right, so I’ll get back on track here. Now that we’re doing sales, this is going to be the stuff. We’re gonna talk about what happens when people get into a call or into an office with you. The first thing I’ll tell you is back in 2009, I got out of radio and I got into fitness. So I took a bunch of fitness credentials, I had about three of them lined up at the time. I started applying at gyms and I applied at a globo gym. It was an online application, put in all my information and I felt like I was pretty qualified. In fact, maybe overqualified. One thing that I answered was do you have sales experience? And I said, no, because I didn’t want to sell. And I had sales experience. I’d worked in a shoe store for a long time.
Mike: 09:34 – I had worked selling knives and wasn’t particularly good at it, but I did have sales experience enough to check that box honestly. I put the thing in and within a day I got the auto instant reject email saying, you are not qualified to work in our gym. And I was like, wow, I have all these credentials and all this stuff. I think I’m good at teaching squats, but I’m not qualified because I didn’t want to sell. Interesting part is I opened my own gym and I said, man, I’m opening a gym, I don’t have to sell. I’m just going to teach squats and be awesome at it. And oddly enough, that worked for a while just based on the CrossFit name, based on my friends bringing people in, based on me being an OK coach or maybe even a good coach. All that worked. And then eventually I realized I had no marketing. Guess what I had to do, Mateo, I had to learn to what?
Mateo: 10:14 – You had to sell.
Mike: 10:14 – Yup. Back to square one in 2009. So right now we’re going to ask you some questions and we’re going to try to figure out how to make people better at sales. Let’s talk techniques.
Mateo: 10:30 – Well, I was just going to say, my approach is really just—there’s tons of like, we could talk about, you know, ways to handle objections. We could talk about certain techniques, but really, I think for me what it comes down to is just trying to figure out, you know, this idea of current state and then desired state, right? So everyone who comes in, anytime you want to buy something, the, the reason you’re buying that thing is because it’s a vehicle to take you to the thing that you want. Right? So if you’re in a current situation, you don’t want to be in that current situation. You want to get to your future desired situation, you’re buying a thing because you think it’s gonna help you get there. Right? So let’s say your current situation is that you have low-back pain, your desired situation, your dream future scenario is that you’d no longer have back pain.
Mateo: 11:25 – So you’re going to buy or schedule an appointment with a chiropractor to see if they can get you from that current situation to your desired situation. Current situation being you’re in pain, desired situation is that you’re not in pain, right? That’s, that’s pretty much the driving factor behind why people buy things. And once you understand that, you can kind of design your sales process around that idea.
Mike: 11:48 – Caterpillar to butterfly.
Mateo: 11:50 – Pretty much. You know, cooking takes too long. I wish I could be in a situation where cooking is faster. So I bought an instant pot because it cut down the time in which it takes me like, you know, roast a chicken or whatever. Right.
Mike: 12:10 – And Chris talks about that, right? Where he says nobody goes to a hardware store for a drill bit. You want the hole in the wall. Right? But the drill bit is the means to get that hole. And before I go on, I’m just gonna tell you, Jack Wheeler just emailed me. So I have a well done sir. A book with us here, he’s got his branding, he’s got his smiling face and it says, are you ready to rock this? And it’s got a whole bunch of stuff. So I can book a session right here in case I was still thinking about it. There are a number of easy ways. So again, hats off to Jack, you crushed it, dude. Mateo, let’s get back to sales.
Mateo: 12:41 – So yeah, and once you kind of have that idea—that you understand that framework, then you know, marketing and selling becomes a bit easier. I think. You know, your website doesn’t really shouldn’t say like, you know, come here for —this is the example we use all the time, like your website says like we have the best community for CrossFit. You know, that’s not really what gets people out of bed. That’s not what like usually when they’re looking for a gym, their current state’s not like I’m in a bad community. I want to be in a good community. Usually it’s like I’m 10 pounds overweight is my current situation. My desired situation is I want to look better for my vacation that’s coming up and lose 10 pounds. They’re going to look for the vehicle that’s going to take them there. And so then your job is to convince them like my gym and my service is the best vehicle for that. So, yeah, you want to really understand what is the current situation that your clients are in most often right? What is the current problem that they’re facing, the current situation that they are in. And then once you have that, then you can, you know, present your offer in a way that’s going to say, hey’ we’re going to get you to your desired spot.
Mike: 14:01 – So you have to do that. You have to be conversational. You have to ask questions and take notes, I’m guessing.
Mateo: 14:07 – Yeah. I mean, and also the work happens before, it’s like, why have all the people joined your gym previously? You know, like, look back at your current clients and see all right, what did they come in looking to solve? What was their current situation and where are they now? And you have to continue to have this conversation, right. Even after you close a client and they’ve been at your gym for a while, you know, when someone comes into your gym, their current situation was they want to lose a little bit of weight and the desired situation—that was their current situation, they’re a little bit overweight. The desired situation, they want to lose a little bit of weight. You sell them, after three months, they’ve lost a ton of weight. You got to have that meeting again with them.
Mateo: 14:48 – What’s now their new current situation? Well, the new is like, I’ve lost the weight, now the current situation is like, I can’t do a pull-up. I want to, right? So then you have to resell them and reshift your focus. OK, well now we’re gonna shift your program, your prescription, do some one-on-one sessions with me, help you with your pull-ups, yada, yada, yada. Right? So this is a conversation that has to continue to happen with your clients over the lifetime that they’re there.
Mike: 15:14 – And that becomes a part of the client journey and retention, which is another thing we teach at Two-Brain Business. Retention is the key to business, right? It costs a lot to acquire clients. I’m getting a phone call right now from Las Vegas, Nevada, and that is Julie Johnson.
Mateo: 15:29 – Julie Johnson.
Mike: 15:31 – I’m not going to answer it only because it’ll distract from the show here, but I am literally getting a phone call 10 minutes after booking this appointment. Someone saw it and is calling me. So Julie Johnson, that is at what gym?
Mateo: 15:41 – Ah, that’s Camp Rhino.
Mike: 15:42 – Camp Rhino. She’s one of our Two-Brain Business mentors, but she’s got a killer team out there, so she decided to call me even though I am in Winnipeg, Canada, with a 204 area code. I got a call from Las Vegas, so that is two for two.
Mateo: 15:53 – Wow. That’s amazing. Well, yeah, I kind of wanted to see what the sales staff is going to ask you.
Mike: 15:58 – Oh, I probably should have answered it, but I don’t have it wired in. That’s too bad.
Mateo: 16:01 – It’s OK. So that’s awesome. Shout out to you Julie.
Mateo: 16:06 – I’m getting another one. It’s ringing again.
Mateo: 16:06 – So that’s the double dial.
Mike: 16:10 – I’m just going to answer it and see what happens. Excuse me if this gets weird.
Mateo: 16:20 – Put it on speaker, Mike.
Mike: 16:21 – I’m doing really well and I’m just going to tell you, we’re actually on a Two-Brain Business podcast and you guys, we selected you guys, we wanted to try and enter contact information in two gyms and see if we’d get a phone call back from their marketing team. So I don’t want to waste a ton of your time, but I want to congratulate you for proving our point. I got a call back from you guys in like 10 minutes. Yeah, this is a super cool, we’re doing a whole show. I’m on actually on the other side of the line with Mateo Lopez, the marketing expert, and we put contact information in two gyms and the first one we got an email and a text immediately. And then from you guys, I got two calls back to back, asking me if I want to come back and buy and book an intro with you guys. Is that correct? Yeah. And so thank you so much for proving the point. I won’t take up too much of your time, but you proved exactly the point Mateo’s making, which is we want people to call. Yeah. And say hi to Julie Johnson for us. She’s one of our amazing mentors. And tell her that Mike and Mateo want to give her a high five.
Mateo: 17:22 – Tell her that you need a raise.
Mike: 17:24 – Thanks so much for calling. Have a great day.
Mateo: 17:31 – Should have told her that she needs a raise. Tell Julie that whoever just called you needs a raise.
Mike: 17:37 – You know what? And I’m just going to show you one more thing here that just popped up. I got a text message there. I’ve got another text message from Jack Wheeler. So I’m in two funnels right now and they are, if I was a guy who wanted to solve a problem, I know exactly how to do it.
Mateo: 17:54 – Exactly.
Mike: 17:55 – Jack is going to guide me through the six-week challenge campaign over the phone. He wants to chat. So we’re talking like these are two gyms that are—and the first one was automated. This second one may not be, it didn’t come from the same situation. And that call was a real live person who called twice back-to-back, didn’t leave a message, just called twice.
Mateo: 18:14 – That’s exactly it. That’s the key to victory right there, Mike.
Mike: 18:18 – So we just witnessed it live and I’m super impressed with these two.
Mateo: 18:22 – But I’m not surprised. I mean, that’s why I picked Julie. I was like, the chances that she’s got it dialed in are pretty high, being a Two-Brain mentor, and then Jack, you know, I learned a lot of the stuff I know about marketing from him, so there you go.
Mike: 18:38 – Let’s circle back now. We’ll circle back. We’ll go back into sales. And what happens now if I book these appointments. We talked about you’re asking questions, you’re taking notes, you’re researching. And we were talking about how this relates to the whole thing of retention and client journey. We won’t get too far into that because it’s not sales essentially, but you made the great point that you need—you’re continually selling your service, right. Every time someone wants to renew.
Mateo: 19:00 – Yeah, exactly that. That was the only point I wanted to make was that every time that they see that auto payment coming up in the month, your client, right. Every time that happens, you have to make that sale, right. You have to remake that sale and reevaluate what their current situation is and what their desired situation is, what their goals are, and make sure they continue to stay and come back every month.
Mike: 19:23 – There’s always a need and a desire. You said the first one might be weight loss. The second one might be pull-up. The third one might be muscle-up. The fourth one might be like—
Mateo: 19:32 – Yeah, maybe they want to do a marathon cause they saw their friend do it. You have to figure that out and continue to have that conversation with them and that check-in with them.
Mike: 19:40 – So you can really only do this if you’re in touch with your clients. If you’ve just got this massive pile of people that hey dude, I don’t know what you do and what you want. You can’t resell. Right. You’re basically working almost with cold leads inside your gym.
Mateo: 19:49 – Pretty much. Yeah. Pretty much.
Mike: 19:52 – Yeah. And Chris has talked about that when he talked about breaking through the 150-client barrier, which a lot of us hit. That’s part of it for sure is that you don’t know your clients well enough to resell your service. Your retention sucks. So you’re not breaking through cause you’re just trying to replace those 150 clients. If you had better—if you knew each client what exactly they want at each time in their journey, you would be able to resell your service. Your retention goes up. And I believe that we had that survey where we found out, if you increase retention of the average member by three months each year would make an extra 45 grand a year on average.
Mateo: 20:22 – Yeah. And guess what? All that can be reinvested into your ads and become even more competitive and more resilient against your competition because you can afford to spend more to acquire new clients. So, it all helps. But yeah, you were asking me once someone books, so let’s say you did book with Jack right now, you know what happens? I can tell you what happens with Jack actually. So if we wanted to use that as example, let’s say you booked an appointment with Jack. He’s texted you right now and said, Hey, I want to walk you through this. Let’s say he books you. When you walk in, what’s going to happen is you’re going to be greeted by their front staff and they’re going to have you sit down. They’re gonna have you sit down in this like leather chair. There’s like a couple other chairs he has in the gym by the entrance, and where you sit down, there’s a couple things. There’s a giant banner to the left of you. And it has just a ton of before and after pictures, like all like in this giant poster. So behind you, like behind the chair, so if you’re going to walk to the chair to sit down, you’re seeing some like awards and like, he does like a gala every year. So he gives a lot of money away to charity and stuff like that. So you’ll see some of that like local business like type of you know, awards and stuff that he has or pictures from the gala, you’ll see that on the giant banner. And then when you sit down, there’s going to be two things on the table.
Mateo: 21:49 – There’s going to be a giant, like that rubber kind of yellow fat replica. That rubber like piece of fat that they have in doctor’s offices sometimes. So that’s going to be sitting there next to you. And then underneath that is going to be another manual. It’s going to be like, you know, welcome to 360 Fitness type of a manual. And it’ll talk a little bit about the program, but again, that book’s gonna be mainly just like littered with before and after photos and success stories. And it’ll also talk about his smoothie program that he has, his meal program that he has. So that’s what you’re going to be sitting in as you’re waiting for your appointment.
Mike: 22:27 – So you’re already seeing proof that it works. You’re already seeing, you know, things that are gonna motivate you. And he’s obviously tuned in to what people want when they come to his gym. They want fat loss, they want transformation, they want, you know, smoothies and other services that he offers.
Mateo: 22:40 – Exactly. Right. All of these things are going to help. He’s framing in the conversation, he’s priming you, and as you said, you’re seeing all this social proof and you’re seeing the authority that he has built for himself in the community, right? With the kind of the awards and stuff. So you can trust this guy. He’s got the authority, you can trust the program’s gonna work, look at all the results and don’t worry if you like, are worried about your nutrition or whatever. Like we got that covered too. So all that’s happening before you even walk in to meet with a sales rep from his gym, and then from there, you’re going to go in and then finally sit down with someone and talk and it’s going to be, you know, you can find—I saw in the newsletter this week Chris has the playlist for, you know, our sales, our sales training on Two-Brain, on the YouTube channel. The stuff’s, you know, it’s similar, and a lot of the sales gurus teach the same thing. You got to ask questions, you got to go through the discovery phase. You have to understand what brought them there and what their current situation is. And then from there, you want to understand what it is they’re looking to achieve, their goals and their desired state. And then after you understand that and ask those questions and do that digging, then you’re going to present the solution, right? The solution is, you know, they are either lacking some kind of accountability. They either have been doing the wrong workouts. They don’t know what they need to do to work out or they don’t know what to do to put into their bodies so that they’re getting the results that they want. You figure out which of those is like the big one. And then you present how the benefits of your program are going to solve that specific problem.
Mike: 24:26 – So just to recap, we do over on YouTube, we have a series called How to Build a Sales Engine. Chris Cooper is telling you exactly how to hire a salesperson, how to develop that whole thing in your gym. We also have a video called, Do You Suck at Sales, where one of our great Two-Brain mentors is telling you how you can get better at it because it is a process that you can improve. You have born salespeople and you have people that learn how to sell. Check it out on YouTube. Please subscribe over there as well. I’m going to come back with Mateo just a second after this.
Ad: 24:52 – Sean: – “How to Add 10,000 of Revenue”? “How to Sell Your Gym”? “What to Do After the Open”?—Holy $hit, Cooper’s written a ton of help guides. Mike: – C’mon Sean. Just read the ad. Sean: – Did you know he gives this stuff away? Like for free? Mike: – Yup. That’s his thing. Sean: – I’d buy this stuff. Mike: – You don’t have to. Sean: – But I would. What kind of business expert gives everything away? Mike: – Chris gives it away so owners can fix their gyms and earn enough to pay for mentoring. Sean: – Oh, that’s actually pretty clever. Should we do the ad? Mike: – Never mind. Just tell them where to get the Free Help Kit. Sean: – Get your Free Help Kit at twobrainbusiness.com/free-tools. Click the link in the show notes. Mike: – Now do the thing from the competition. Come on Sean. Sean: – Come on, man. Mike: – Just do it! Sean: – Are you not entertained? Mike: – And we’re done here.
Mike: 25:43 – And we are back with Mateo Lopez. I am Mike Warkentin and this is Two-Brain Radio. We are talking sales with Mateo Lopez. Mateo, let’s go over your outline. Someone comes in, you’re ready to talk about their problems and solutions. You’ve got the solutions, they have problems. What is your outline? How do you do it?
Mateo: 25:58 – Yeah. So first things first, you wanna just break the ice, a little bit of chit chat, a little bit small talk. Make sure they’re comfortable with you and establish some rapport. Start to build some rapport there, right? The next thing is—
Mike: 26:13 – I’m gonna interrupt you and ask you a question. One of our mentors Jeff Burlingame recommends that you sit kind of on barstool side by side rather than across the table. Do you do something like that?
Mateo: 26:22 – Yeah, there’s a lot of psychology around that and a lot of sales gurus talk about this. Yeah. You want to sit on their side, right? And you don’t want to—or at least that’s his take. And I agree with that. Right? You can sit across from someone but that kind of creates this separation, this barrier. If you sit next to them, you’re now on their side, right? You’re there to help them. Versus like, you know, if you’re on the opposite end, you almost feel like you’re in a job interview or something. So you wanna do some small chat, small talk, chat and build some rapport there. Next is kind of just to say what we’re going to do, which is, you know, hey, today we’re gonna talk about why you’re here and figure out what your goals are and see if there’s a way we can help.
Mateo: 27:16 – And then you kind of taking the lead in that way too, right? You want to make sure that you are leading the conversation, right? If you start off by—I had a sales call with a software company just the other day and I booked a call, they called me. It’s like, all right, so you know, what questions you got for me. And I was blown away because this company does pretty well. And I was just shocked that like, that’s how they run their sales.
Mike: 27:43 – You were in control.
Mateo: 27:43 – Yeah. I’m in control, which is not what you want in sales. You need, as the business owner, as a sales rep, you need to control the conversation, the flow of conversation.
Mike: 27:55 – Did you sell these guys an incubator?
Mateo: 27:59 – I did not. But it was shocking. Like, yeah, you never want to leave the—so, what brought you in—what brought you in, that’s different, right? But like what questions can I answer for you? You’ve lost control once you’ve done that. So, kind of state what we’re going to do, and take lead is kind of the next piece.
Mike: 28:21 – So we’re dancing and you’re leading.
Mateo: 28:23 – Exactly. Then we kind of, we beat this dead horse, but figure out why they’re there. Right? So figure out, you know, what brought them into to see you to that that day. And then you want to dig as deep as you possibly can, you know? So what do you mean by that? Or tell me a little bit more about that. Or OK, so you said you’ve been trying to lose 20 pounds. You’ve tried, but you haven’t been able to. Why do you think that is? Like, why does this problem exist or how have you tried to fix this? How long have you been trying to fix this? How long have you been trying to deal with this? So you’re trying to probe and get as far down to that why as you possibly can.
Mike: 29:04 – And what are you looking for there? You’re looking for like, you know, they’re probably like emotional, visceral stuff, a little bit of their history. You’re looking for like what they’ve tried, why they didn’t have success, all those different things.
Mateo: 29:14 – Yeah. You’re looking for those things because you’re going to use that later on to present why your solution or why your service is going to help them overcome these things that have blocked them in the past.
Mike: 29:28 – So you’re collecting info.
Mateo: 29:30 – So it’s like, oh, like I’ve been trying to go to the gym but like, when I get there I just don’t know what to do. I do the same workout every time. All right, so you, you write that down and then later on you’re going to say, oh well here’s the thing about our program. Like workouts are constantly varied. So like your body is going to be constantly adapting to new challenges and so you’re going to lose a lot of weight very quickly. Blah, blah, something like that. I just made that one up. But you get what I’m saying?
Mike: 29:56 – Some of the stuff you’re looking for, I’m sure you hear this one where someone’s like, man, I’ve tried so many gyms before. I did all the workouts, I never lost any weight, I did what they told me and I just, I’m so frustrated. And then you’re going to ask me what?
Mateo: 30:08 – Well, yeah, so for that one, let’s say they’re like, they’re addicted to classes, right? They go to classes, nonstop boot camps, and they’re just saying they go all the time not losing any weight. That’s a dead giveaway that something’s going on with their nutrition. Right?
Mike: 30:19 – Yeah. And that gives you an opportunity then to present these ideal solution, which is—
Mateo: 30:23 – Right, later on we’re going to present your program, but you have that in your back pocket. So you’re building all this data on this person, this profile, right? So you’re figuring out why they were there, what brought them there, and then you want to understand, like I’ve been saying this whole, I feel like it’s been an hour, their current situation, you know, where are they currently at and why are they stuck? That’s all this discovery phase, all these questions. That’s what we’re really trying to do here. So at this point there’s—I think this is where people—like, I think people love doing that part of the sales part. What I think people don’t like is this next piece right, where it’s called kicking the bruised knee. Right. So causing a little bit of agitation or a little bit of pain. Right. So, you know, are you currently happy with—OK. So you said you’re trying to lose the weight. How much do you weigh right now?
Mike: 31:28 – I’m about 20 pounds overweight.
Mateo: 31:30 – OK. So, and how does that make you feel? Are you happy with that weight or, you know, some of those questions, right? Some of those things where, you know, you’re kicking the bruised knee and agitating, causing a little bit of pain. So that part, there’s a lot of different ways you can do that and more tactful ways. That’s the part that I have trouble with the most with selling. And you know, there’s different takes on that. Right? But the goal there is to have them see and realize that, yeah. Like I have been doing this the wrong way for a long time and you know, I’m tired of it. It makes me sad to think about how long I’ve been dealing with this and not addressing it.
Mike: 32:19 – Let’s be real here. So like I’m not a wizard or a genius here or a doctor, but I’m pretty sure that I can help most people lose weight, become fitter and likely avoid a ton of diseases and a ton of conditions, right? We all know that. Eating well working out is going to be your best bet. Every doctor says it’s a good idea, right? No one says it’s not. So you’ve got this person who has a problem, maybe they even have health concerns and things like that. Really by presenting the solution for them, and this is where Chris talks about this in the book “Help First,” really what you’re doing is you are trying to help them solve a problem that they know is a problem, right? So when you’re talking about kicking the bruised knee, like you know, obviously we’re trying to help them connect with that desire and the reality of the situation. But really, if they didn’t know there was a problem, they wouldn’t be sitting in your office trying to solve it.
Mateo: 33:04 – Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly right. So then the next phase here that I like to go into and you know, again, I’ve been saying this, the whole show is really figuring out what they want their desired state, their future state. You know, this is a little bit of bright spots, stuff like that where it’s, so where do you want to be in the next three months? You know, what do you want your body to look like? Or how much weight or whatever. Let’s say someone’s like, I’m not very strong right now and I want to be strong, I’ve been skinny my whole life, you know? Where do you want to be? You know, what’s motivating you to get there? Oh, well, you know, I want to be stronger for my kids so I can play with them.
Mateo: 33:46 – You know? What kind of an impact on your life would losing this 25 pounds have or would having more energy or sleeping better, eating better have on your life? You know, those kinds of things. Those are the kinds of questions you want to ask in the next phase to really figure out where they’re trying to go and what their vision is and so that you can support that vision and also if you have a defined goal, right, then you’ll be able to really say, yeah, we’re going to help you get to this goal. And here’s how.
Mike: 34:14 – It’s pretty easy to be comfortable with that too when you’ve been in the business long enough. When I first started, I was nervous, but I know after 10 years of doing fitness, like if someone says I need to be stronger, that’s not even hard. Like an expert can do that pretty fast. We can help people lose weight. That’s little tougher cause you can’t control eating outside the gym, but selling with confidence at that point, it’s pretty easy.
Mateo: 34:34 – Yeah. I mean, and running off that, you know, let’s say they’re aiming a little bit low, you know, maybe they’re like, yeah, I don’t know. I just want to be able to like touch my toes or whatever. It’s like, all right, man. I mean, we can help you with your mobility, but like, I don’t know, don’t you want to be able to run faster or you know, have more energy or whatever it is. Right? Like you want to help them kind of craft this out, right?
Mike: 34:57 – So you’re highlighting goals. These are rewards and things that they can like check off later on and see the success of service.
Mateo: 35:03 – Exactly. Right. So and then the next piece is you want to really like have them—you want to hold up the mirror and have them admit, like, you know, one of the things like they either they want to do a thing but they can’t do it fast enough, they’re losing weight, but it’s not fast enough, they want to do it faster. Or they’re motivated to work out and come to the gym. They just don’t know how to, what workouts they should be doing. Right. So it’s an inability to do it on their own. Or it’s like, look, I work 10 hours a day, I have a very stressful job. I just want to come into the class, do exactly what the coach tells me to do and just like turn my brain off and follow a system and guidance of someone who’s like, you know, fitter than I am. You know, you’re looking for one of those three things. For them to admit like, yeah, I need one of those things in order to get to my goal. That’s what you want them to, to say and want them to realize that.
Mike: 36:04 – That’s where you get those questions like wouldn’t you agree and things like that where you’re kind of presenting things and having them kind of agree with what you’re saying.
Mateo: 36:09 – Yeah. Like the easiest way to do that’s is like all right, so you say you want to lose 25 pounds. What’s stopping you from doing this on your own.
Mike: 36:17 – I don’t know how.
Mateo: 36:19 – Perfect. Great. You’re done. Or like, sounds like you want to have more energy to play with your kids. It sounds like you just want to increase your conditioning a little bit, what’s stopping you from doing this on your own?
Mike: 36:32 – I need accountability.
Mateo: 36:34 – I know I should be running more but I can’t get myself out of bed. Exactly what you’re saying. Right. So, that’s the simple, that’s the easy question there that you can get the answers you want and then the rest is just kind of summarizing, you know, where we’re at and having them acknowledge, kind of the gap, right. The gap between where they are currently and where they want to go. Acknowledging the gap of like, I’m currently not able to play with my kids cause I got low back pain or whatever. And I want to get to the place where I can, I’m strong enough to play with them, and let them see like, those are really far apart because I’ve been trying to solve this on my own for a while. I haven’t been able to get there. Right. You want them to see that there’s a space in between those two things. And you want to highlight that. And then once you’re there, that’s when you present, you know, your kind of expertise like, hey, well my area of expertise is helping women over 30 lose 25 pounds in 12 weeks or whatever it is. Right? Like, Hey, well, you know, here’s the good news. Like my area of expertise is like helping dads fix low back pain. I don’t know. I know whatever it is. Right? But that’s where you state where your position of authority is in, and then your solution and your offer.
Mateo: 38:06 – So here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to get you enrolled in our 12-week transformation program and here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to help you in our eight week muscle gain program or whatever it is. Right? You explain that. And you talk about the benefits of this program that will help them overcome challenges they’ve had in the past and the outcome. How we’re going to get them to where they want to go. What you don’t want to do here, and where I see most people mess up is talking about the specifics of the program. We’re going to get you started with a PVC pipe first, and we’re gonna, you know, we’re going to have you talk with this person. You know, we have a Facebook group you’re going to get, don’t talk about the features of what’s actually included. You’re really just explaining how, you know, typically we take people who are over 30 and are overworked and don’t have a lot of energy and we get them in 12 weeks to, you know, lose 10 pounds and, you know, beating their high-school mile time or whatever.
Mike: 39:17 – Yeah. So don’t you don’t talk about the drill bit in graphic detail. Show them the hole in the wall and say I can create this for you. Solve your problem.
Mateo: 39:26 – Yeah. And then you want to state your offer and ask them if they’re ready to get started and then you want to wait. You want to just chill and let them sit with that for a minute.
Mike: 39:37 – So what would you say, what would you say to me? Like how would you state your offer and let it sit with me. Just something very general. I am 20 pounds overweight and I need a nutrition and fitness program. What would you say?
Mateo: 39:52 – I would say, my area of expertise is helping dads over 35 lose weight and get stronger in 12 weeks using our proven system, our proven 12-week strength-building program. It’s going to help you lose weight, have more energy and get stronger. And we take the guesswork out of it for you. It’s going to be awesome. And then I’m going to say, typically his program is three payments of 299. Are you ready to get started? Something like that.
Mike: 40:43 – Yeah. And I’m putting you on the spot with this one and not giving you any information to help you craft that. But what you’ve done is you’ve shown your expertise, you’ve then laid out a program with some proof, saying you know this a proven program, you’ve got all the pictures on your wall and all this stuff, and then you’re quoting some prices and you’re just bouncing the ball over to me and asking me this. You’re basically asking for the sale, correct?
Mateo: 41:05 – Yeah. I mean, now I’m thinking about it, it was based on what you’ve told me, I think that a 12-week muscle building program is going to be the right fit for you or it’s going to help you lose weight. It’s gonna help you get stronger. It can help you play with your kids. This program is three payments of 299, are you ready to get started?
Mike: 41:24 – And that’s where you’re going to get either you’re getting a sale or you’re going to get an objection. Right? And if you get objections, you are then confronting based on the information that you acquired earlier.
Mateo: 41:33 – Yeah, I mean, objections are really just like—objections are going to come up if you didn’t do a good job of understanding their problem and presenting the solution in the way that they can understand. You know, that’s really it. And there’s tons of stuff that we go over in our course about like how you can get around some of these, but you know, there’s some funny kind of one-liners you can use and if you want to learn more about that, you know, you can definitely talk to a Two-Brain mentor. But the reality is like any of that stuff, that should really be used as a last resort, right? You really shouldn’t have those kinds of objections if you’ve done your job in the first like three quarters of that conversation.
Mike: 42:21 – So guys, if you are interested in working with a mentor to get better at selling, you can do that at twobrainbusiness.com. You can book a free call and we’ll talk to you and you find out if this program is right for you and in that program we are going to teach you all this stuff so that you can get better at it. Please check it out today. I don’t know if I’m selling that properly Mateo, that wasn’t my best sales pitch, I’m guessing. I should have let you do it.
Mateo: 42:45 – You didn’t sound super enthused.
Mike: 42:47 – But I don’t have a person that I need to talk to this person to find out why they need to get better at selling. And it’s probably, you know, we’ve probably got gym owners out there who are like, I have gotten a bunch of leads come in and I sit them down and we have an awkward conversation in which I give them control and they kind of asked me some questions. I answer and I talk about how good my programming is and they walk out and I don’t have enough money to do the things I want to do in life. Right. That’s probably the person who’s listening.
Mateo: 43:16 – I think it’s the opposite, Mike.
Mike: 43:17 – What is it?
Mateo: 43:17 – Most people are like oh yeah, I’ve got a 90% close rate. If they come in through the door, I’m selling them. That’s most of the guys, most of the people that we talk to. And I think that’s probably true in some respect, but like if someone has found you all on their own, they’ve gone through a lot of work, most likely. Research, you know, strength training or conditioning or weightlifting or CrossFit or whatever it is. They know this is a methodology I want to try and they Google the ones that are near you. Yours pops up, they sift through your site. It doesn’t have an easily book a call now button available. So if they do walk in, they’ve done most of the selling themselves to themselves. So that’s probably why your close rate’s pretty high. At least when I talked what I talk to most gym owners, that’s what they say. It’s like, oh no, closing’s not a problem. It’s getting them in the doors.
Mike: 44:23 – And we’ve talked a little bit about that in previous shows, so guys, if you have questions about how to get people the door, we’ve talked about targeting, we’ve talked about creative, ad, check that out on our archives, please subscribe to Two-Brain Radio. There’s lots of different stuff in there. And again, we can teach you how to do it. So let’s leave them with something actionable here, Mateo. If you had a salesperson and you were trying to make that salesperson better, what would you advise? Are you going to get that person like to do like sales training drills or just like sit down and work through scripts? Or what’s the thing that you would do to help people out there right now? Either get better at sales themselves or help their staff get better?
Mateo: 45:00 – Yeah, you should be doing mock intros and mock consultations constantly, right? Just constantly doing these exercises and you know who is going to walk in through your door and you know what the objections are going to be. Right? So just, you know, pretend—I was gonna say you can pretend you’re one of those people, you should pretend you’re yourself, right? You’ve shopped around for a gym before. See if your staff can sell you, right. Based on the gym that you would want to work out at, based on what the program is that you’re looking for, right? So just have your staff try and sell you and then tell them that you need to also sell them and just work on that and constantly do those mock interviews over and over and over again. I don’t know if this is still available, but Chris used to sell this scenarios deck. It was like a flashcard deck with different scenarios. There were some salesy questions in there that are really, really good too. So, you know, those are the things I would do.
Mike: 46:06 – And, our growth clients actually, Chris just sent that sales deck to everybody in our growth program, so that is coming as a Christmas gift or holiday gift for them. So we’re going to get some people practicing that. Mateo, sell me this pen.
Mateo: 46:24 – Mike, what brought you in here today, to the pen store?
Mike: 46:29 – I really need to write, you know, I just, I need to write my memoirs. I’m a writer and man, I’m struggling.
Mateo: 46:39- So it sounds like you came into the pen store cause you need to write your memoir. What stopped you from writing the memoir?
Mike: 46:47 – I’m not a tech guy. I am not a tech guy. Like I don’t like typing on phones. I don’t like keyboards. I don’t like typing with my thumbs. Like t’s much easier for me to do stuff when I have pen and paper.
Mateo: 46:58 – OK. So from what I’m hearing from you is you don’t like technology, you need to write your memoirs. What would it be like 12 months from now, your memoir was written, how would that impact your life? How would that change you?
Mike: 47:14 Well, I think I’d be on a book tour. I would probably be in your city of New York signing copies of books and I might need a pen to sign those copies.
Mateo: 47:21 And why is that important to you?
Mike: 47:23 Well, I feel like I have something to tell the world, you know, I really want to get my story out there.
Mateo: 47:29 But why? Why is that important?
Mike: 47:30 I don’t know. I guess I have some low self esteem and I feel like I really could probably change that if I get my story hear.
Mateo: 47:39 So what I heard you tell me, Mike, is that you need to write your memoir, but you haven’t been able to because there’s only computers around and technology, you’re not a tech guy. It sounds like if you were able to write this memoir, not only would you be able to tell your story and impact a lot of people and help a lot of people, but it also sounds like you’d be able to feel a bit more confident in your own skin. Is that right?
Mike: 48:09 You nailed it.
Mateo: 48:11 Awesome. So, what I’m gonna do now is, talk about how I think we can help you. Are you ready to learn more? All right. Well, Mike, at this pen store, we offer pens, and with the pen, it’s a proven tool that’s been used for years, maybe even hundreds of years to help people write the stories they want to write. Now, typically this pen, it’s three payments of 9.99, but because you walked in today, we’ve actually got a awesome promotion going on now. It’s literally free. So, yeah. My next question is, are you ready to get started with this?
Mike: 49:07 I’ll take a dozen. Give me the first free one. I’ll buy the next 11.
Mateo: 49:10 Awesome.
Mike: 49:13 Man, I love it when you sell me the pen, Mateo.
Mateo: 49:14 I don’t know if that was my best work, Mike.
Mike: 49:20 But I’m setting you up though. I’m just giving you nothing here and I’m just walking in writing my memoirs. I appreciate it. Guys, if you want to learn more about this kind of stuff, we have mentors available who can do it. You want to go to Two-Brain business.com and book a free call. Do that. You’ll talk to people who can tell you if mentorship is right for you and will help you learn. This has been to Two-Brain Radio with Mateo Lopez. I am Mike Warkentin from Two-Brain Media. I’ve taken over the show. Please subscribe and leave a review. We have tons and tons of good stuff coming. Chris Cooper is our founder and our content machine. He’s also podcasting all over the place. Please subscribe, leave us a review and keep listening to Two-Brain Radio. Thanks guys.
Announcer: 49:57 Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. Make sure to subscribe to receive the most up-to-date episodes wherever you get your podcasts from. To find out how we can help create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at twobrainbusiness.com.
