Two-Brain Radio: The Power of Digital Marketing and the "Magic Matrix"

Mateo Lopez-BLOG

Mateo: 00:02 – Hey, it’s Mateo of Two-Brain Marketing. On this edition of—

Mike: 00:04 – Hey Mateo, excuse me, I just have a couple of questions about Facebook advertising. My leads aren’t converting. Can you give me some help here?

Mateo: 00:12 – Mike? Mike, is that you?

Mike: 00:15 – Yeah, yeah, my ads. I’m having some ad problems. You got time for me, or what?

Mateo: 00:22 – Well, I’m kind of doing my weekly podcast right now.

Mike: 00:25 – How about this? How about this time we make you the show and I’ll be the host.

Mateo: 00:30 – OK. I guess. Does Chris know about this?

Mike: 00:37 – I loosely briefed him. I’m not going to say he knows, knows, but like he’s OK with it; let’s just say he’s good with it.

Mateo: 00:44 – Well, I guess it’s better to ask for forgiveness than for permission, so yeah, let’s do it.

Mike: 00:49 – Yeah, he’s Canadian. He’s just going to let it roll anyway, so we’re good.

Mike: 00:52 – All right. This week on Two-Brain Radio, it’s a totally not hostile takeover of the marketing podcast. I’m Mike Warkentin of Two-Brain Media and I’m turning the tables to get the goods from marketing expert Mateo Lopez. This week, he’ll explain how you can use digital advertising to take off the blindfold and build your business with surgical precision. I’m back with Mateo right after this.

Greg: 01:12 – Two-Brain Radio is brought to you by Two-Brain business. We make gyms profitable. We’re going to bring you the very best tips, tactics, interviews in the business world each week to find out how we can help you create your perfect day book, a free call with a mentor at

Chris: 01:26 – Everybody hates their insurance company until they need their insurance company. My insurance recommendation is Vaughn Vernon of Affiliate Guard. Before I get into this story, I want to make it clear here that I don’t get any kickback for recommending Vaughn, but I’ve done it so many times. Whenever anybody online asks a question about insurance companies, I always say Affiliate Guard. Here’s why. Years ago when we affiliated with CrossFit, my insurance company dumped me, citing quote unquote “tractor pulls” that we were going to be doing, whatever the hell that is. I’ve never pulled a tractor in my life. I’ve driven lots of tractors and I can tell you, I don’t think I could pull one if I wanted to, but that’s besides the point. At that time, the person who swooped in and saved CrossFit gyms in Canada was Joanne LeGal, and if you’re in Canada, I recommend talking to her—period. You don’t have to talk to her first. You don’t have to talk to her last. Just talk to her, period. If you’re in the states though, I recommend Affiliate Guard because the program that I get through Joanne in Canada is really, really awesome and all inclusive. Joanne’s personality, though, is what keeps me with their company. In the states. Affiliate Guard is run by Vaughn Vernon, a massive personality, a CrossFitter, a Jujitsu guy. He drives dirt bikes, he has good-looking kids, all that stuff and his policy is the best. It’s really, really tough to tell when you’re reading your policy if the benefits are the same as someone else’s because they obscure stuff on purpose. It’s just like taxes. However, when I’m looking at my policy, I ask myself, “Will that guy get up in the middle of the night and helped me out?”This weekend was a great example of Vaughn’s personality. One of my friends and clients down in Florida had their garage door smashed open by a Mustang that was doing donuts in the parking lot and they texted me at 6:00 a.m. on a Sunday and I wanted to help. So I texted Vaughn, he’s two hours behind me and he responded right away. Your insurance company is not going to do that. As I said at the start of this, everybody hates their insurance company until they need insurance. And when you do need insurance, you want them to answer the damn phone on a Sunday morning and you want to talk to the head man and you just want to know everything’s going to be OK. With Affiliate Guard, it is.

Mike: 03:47 – All right. And I am back. I am back with Mateo Lopez. He’s usually the host, but this time he’s going to be the guest. How are you doing, Mateo?

Mateo: 03:56 – I’m doing well.

Mike: 03:56 – Are you ready to get grilled on all the marketing questions everyone has?

Mateo: 04:01 – I am a little bit nervous, but I am excited. I’m excited. Yeah, let’s do it.

Mike: 04:07 – Well, today we’re going over—I want to know, you know, digital advertising has revolutionized things. So I want to ask you some questions specifically about that. And I’ll start by I’m going to tell you a really short story from the radio industry and I’m going to horrify you and probably ruin your day, but I want your thoughts on this. Ready?

Mateo: 04:21 – I love horror movies, I love everything horror. I have a Shudder subscription, so I’m ready.

Mike: 04:27 – Yeah. So as a guy who tracks ROI and everything, imagine this, this is about 10 years ago, I’m working in terrestrial radio on literally the worst radio station in the city with no ratings. And we have a client, and the client is a car dealer. He wants to run ads. So he’s going to run these ads and he’s going to run them on our station, which has, again, the worst ratings in the entire city. And then he’s gonna run the exact same ads because we just share the creative, we’re gonna run those exact same ads on the most popular station in the city. So he’s got the same set of ads running on the worst station and the most expensive station. So he’s paying, let’s say he’s paying us $1,000, he’s paying them $5,000. How do you think he’s going to track his ROI on that?

Mateo: 05:10 – Well, if it’s a radio ad, I hope he’s gonna offer some kind of discount, for one radio station and a different discount for another radio station. And then if someone calls and takes him up on one of those discounts, he’ll know where it came from. Otherwise, I have no idea.

Mike: 05:30 – Yeah. So, let me tell you, it was the exact same spot. No discount, no nothing. Nothing to differentiate between the two stations and spots. So can he track that ROI?

Mateo: 05:44 – No. He cannot.

Mike: 05:47 – Yeah, it’s disastrous. And you know, it was good for us as the worst station, right? Because as the bad station, anything that happens on the good station, we get the benefit of that. These ads are working! But we have like 0.1% of the listenership and the other guy has got 30%. The traffic is clearly coming from the big guy, but you have no idea how to track it. Right? When I started working with you guys, so I went through the marketing course and I started playing with all the stuff that you guys are doing. I’ve seen your systems, I’ve seen your spreadsheets, we use them at my gym. I can tell you to the penny what my ROI is and it’s amazing. It helps me spend with confidence even though I’m super cheap. So you must have seen this digital advertising thing as this amazing way to generate ROI and prove it to clients. Like how did that come about for you and how did you figure that out?

Mateo: 06:33 – Well, so at the time, I guess it kind of started—so John works with me very closely. We’re partners. And he and I developed the course together and at the time I first started out, he owned two gyms in New York and New Jersey and I was coming in as it was my first job out of college. I came in as a, well, I wanted to be a coach and he was like, you’re too green, but you can start like working on this Zen Planner stuff. So I was working at the front desk and then going through the coaching program and, and then kind of managing the second location. And then during that time, at one point, John was opening up the second gym and he created a five-sequence email, a five-email sequence for founding members and he kind of generated a list and then blasted out this offer for the new gym and was able to pretty much, you know, recoup the amount invested into that second space, like within the span of a week because we signed up so many founding memberships.

Mike: 07:46 – He was tracking that right then?

Mateo: 07:49 – I mean tracking it in the sense that like he sold close to 200 founding memberships in like a week with this list that he built. Now, that won’t happen probably ever again because it was at a time when CrossFit was blowing up. There were only like three affiliates in Manhattan. And so to offer like a discounted rate, yeah, everyone was going to leave there. Everyone who was starving for CrossFit was going to leave their gym to come to us. But that was kind of the moment I think for John where it clicked and he was like, oh wow, like this internet thing, if you do it right, can make a lot of money for people.

Mike: 08:27 – It’s like rock and roll; it’s going to stick around a little bit.

Mateo: 08:29 – Yeah. He’s like, wow, like emails. If I send an email to someone, there’s a way to do it where they can give me money. So that was kind of the, I think that’s where it kinda clicked for him. And then, so he’s always kinda been looking for, you know, that was kind of where the marketing bug I think probably hit him. And then I’m kind of working in the business alongside him at that point and I’m coming up the ranks, I’m coming up the chain and we kind of see what people are doing. We kind of see where some gyms are starting to offer, like, you know, a six-week program on a Facebook ad, some kind of challenge. And we’re starting to see the people are—well, businesses or people are saying, hey, you got to try this thing. It’s gonna like get you a bunch of members. And there were a couple programs you could sign up for at the time. And we were like, hey, you know what, why don’t we just try this ourselves? And so we kind of reverse-engineered it, created a video and a landing page and it was pretty astounding. Just the results from that first kind of campaign that we did.

Mike: 09:33 – So right when you started, was tracking ROI, was that super important to you guys or was that something that you came into as you started to get further along?

Mateo: 09:42 – Well, in terms of what? In terms of just marketing efforts?

Mike: 09:45 – Yeah, like what I’m saying is like the first marketing thing I did at my gym, we signed up for some, you know, newsletter, whatever. It did literally nothing. And we didn’t even track it properly, but no one extra signed up. So we knew it didn’t work. I’m wondering with you guys, when you started building out these systems for the gym, did you right away start saying, OK, I’m going to spend, you know, $500 on this and I’m going to find out exactly what that gets me?

Mateo: 10:09 – Mm. Well, I mean, we definitely were interested to see that, but at the time it was so cheap that the return investment was so obvious. You know, when we launched our first ad and we saw that we had booked 20, you know, we didn’t call them No-Sweat Intros at the time, but No-Sweat Intros, in a week, it was quite obvious and apparent that there was a positive return on the first week of running ads.

Mike: 10:43 – And things started to get harder, right, cause the ad costs go up and you know, the novelty wears off on that stuff. When did you guys really seize upon the idea that like man, if we can show people ROI on advertising and marketing, we’re going to be able to help people to a greater degree. Because again, I’m thinking back to days when I’ve had people say, oh, buy a radio ad, buy a print ad, and you’re like, and how do I know it works? So when did you guys twig into that and how did you start figuring that out?

Mateo: 11:09 – It’s interesting cause at the time I was—I guess we probably did our first kind of Facebook campaign and we sold out the program we were advertising and it was amazing. And I paused the ads, and then John calls me and we’re talking, we’re doing our weekly whatever. And he’s like, all right, so how’d the program go? I was like, great. We sold it out, blah, blah, blah. He’s like, awesome. And I was like, yes. So, you know, I guess we’ll just wait until we want to do the next six-week program. He’s like, you turned off the ads? And I was like, yeah, I turned them off. He’s like, why did you do that? And I was like, well, we sold out this program and we’re not doing another one right at this moment. So I turned—and he’s like, no, no, no. What are you talking about? Why did you turn them off? Why on Earth did you turn those off? You need to turn those back on immediately. And the next time around, right, it was a little bit more expensive, you know, maybe we spent 400 bucks on that first campaign. The next time around, you know I’m spending like 600 and I’m like all right, well maybe I should like slow this down or turn it off. I was still set in like the scarcity mindset, and John was like I don’t think you understand. Like spend as much as you need to spend to sell out the next program, and it was then when I kind of like learned the lesson of like, oh I guess yeah, we can spend kind of as much as we want because as long as we sell out this program, one it’s still going to be a positive ROI, and even if we don’t, like we know people are going to stay, you know, we know people are going to stay and it’s going to make up the money on the back end. And it was kind of—it took a couple of campaigns, it took a couple of six-week challenges for it to make sense to me. But John was on it right away.

Sean: 13:00 – “How to Add 10,000 of Revenue”? “How to Sell Your Gym”? “What to Do After the Open”—holy $hit, Cooper’s written a ton of help guides.

Mike: 13:07 – C’mon Sean. Just read the ad.

Sean: 13:10 – Did you know he gives this stuff away? Like for free?

Mike: 13:14 – Yup. That’s his thing.

Sean: 13:16 – I’d buy this stuff.

Mike: 13:17 – You don’t have to.

Sean: 13:18 – But I would. What kind of business expert gives everything away?

Mike: 13:23 – Chris gives it away so owners can fix their gyms and earn enough to pay for mentoring.

Sean: 13:26 – Oh, that’s actually pretty clever. Should we do the ad?

Mike: 13:31 – Never mind. Just tell them where to get the Free Help Kit.

Sean: 13:34 – Get your Free Help Kit at Click the link in the show notes.

Mike: 13:42 – Now do the thing from the competition. Come on Sean.

Sean: 13:45 – Come on, man.

Mike: 13:45 – Just do it!

Sean: 13:47 – Are you not entertained?

Mike: 13:48 – And we’re done here.

Mike: 13:50 – Well and see like that’s the thing for me is people have talked about advertising and like our gym literally survived just off the CrossFit name and being decent coaches. Right? And it was that thing that a lot of gyms have done. And when we finally started looking at marketing and looked to your stuff, I didn’t want to spend money on marketing, you know? And I really thought about what you guys said at the Summit where you’re like, man, you know, you need to spend money on marketing. And I got scared because it seems like such a crap shoot, because I’d worked in advertising, I’d seen radio and I’d seen how difficult it was to embed these discount codes and track all this nonsense to try and get people to approve it. When I saw your stuff, it was really cool. The thing that was really neat was your matrix. I think it was a spreadsheet where you enter in your costs, you enter in all the appointments, you enter in all the data, and then you enter in the sales and all that stuff and it spits out this number. And it’s like a visual representation where all of a sudden I know that I put in $1,000 of ad spend and I was terrified, but I made you know, 4,000 whatever it was. And I knew that each lead could cost X. So that sheet for me was our huge eye opener. How did that one come to be and have you guys modified it a little bit or how does that—how did you come up with it?

Mateo: 14:58 – Just some math, you know, it’s just, it’s just math. And really the issue there though is like, you have to be tracking everything. You have to know, you know, what your closing percentage is, right? And you have to know what it is working up against, you know, cold traffic versus, you know, people who—you know, there’s a difference, right? There’s people who hear about CrossFit, their friend tells them about it and you know, then they start researching it. They think it’s kinda cool. Maybe they watch a couple of videos online and then at that point they’re like, all right, maybe I’ll check out a couple in my area. And then they’re Googling some in their area and three come up, you know, they call them. And then the first one that picks up they’ll probably go to.

Mateo: 15:43 – So like by the time they walk in, they’re already like sold half, you know, 50% of the way or whatever it is. You know, they’ve already decided they’re going to try CrossFit; now they’re just trying to figure out which one. And so at that point, if they come to you your odds are pretty high of closing that person, right? There’s a difference there between that and then, you know, trying to attract a colder audience and getting them to convert. Right. So I think that was the first lesson is like, all right, dealing with people coming through this pipeline, it’s going to be a different closing percentage and a different process than, you know, the warmer, the referral pipeline basically is what that is. But once you know that, the math is not too complicated there.

Mike: 16:30 – Maybe for you. The rest of us are terrified of this stuff.

Mateo: 16:33 – Well, I guess so, but once you know what your closing percentage is, you can kind of work your way back to see, you know, what you can afford to spend to acquire someone.

Mike: 16:46 – I’m gonna interrupt just to ask this question. When you’re working with clients, it must be cool as a marketing mentor now to be able to say to people who—cause working with small business owners who maybe don’t have a ton of extra, they’re watching their budgets. It must be great for you to be able to say to these guys, look, we can guarantee that you’re going to be able to track the stuff if you fill out these few numbers and if you spend this, you will know for a fact that you’re getting the money back. That’s the conversation you must have had a million times now with people.

Mateo: 17:12 – Yeah. But the other part too is like you have to listen to what Chris says, too. And the effort needs to go first into increasing your ARM and increasing your LTV. Right. Your lifetime value for your clients.

Mike: 17:26 – And that’s average revenue per member for those who aren’t—.

Mateo: 17:30 – Yeah, sorry. Average revenue per member and the lifetime value of your clients. Right? Because if you know those things, that’s when marketing and paying for, you know, investing in paid client acquisitions, it’s no longer scary because if you know as long as I can get them in, they’re going to stay for nine months and I know in those nine months they’re going to spend $189 per month, I know that, OK, well I can actually afford to spend a little bit of money to get this person in the door. Right. And that’s why you need to know your closing percentages and you need to know how long people stay. If you don’t know those things, then yeah, spending money to get clients is going to be a little scary. And if you have bad retention, then yeah, you can maybe be really good at getting people in the door. But if they’re not gonna stay, then you’re really going to be at a disadvantage to the other gyms who have better retention systems and who can get people to stay longer.

Mike: 18:28 – Yeah. And that’s cool cause that’s the reason why you guys fall where you fall in the program because you know, we go through the Incubator, all that stuff. We’re looking at building your systems, getting people in the right spots, making sure your retention is clear with a client success manager, all the things that made sure that you have those hard numbers. So you look at like your length of engagement. Man, I know my length of engagement is 13 months. I know each client is going to come in at this rate for probably 13 months. At that point, that’s where you guys come in and then you can be pretty clear with people on ROI, right?

Mateo: 18:57 – Yeah. And then you can be like, well, if you know these numbers, then yeah, don’t stress if your lead costs are a little bit higher because you can actually afford that. But if your coach leaves and then all of a sudden you have to jump back in and now you’re taking on some more responsibilities, you can’t focus on the client experience, then yeah, it can all become a little bit more stressful and the wheels can fall off if you’re not setting up your business with systems that can, you know, have everything run the way it’s supposed to run, I guess, if that makes sense.

Mike: 19:29 – So let me ask you this. If I’m a guy that I just, for some reason I cold call you and I get ahold of you and I’m a salesperson. Hey, you know, I am really looking to get you in our magazine or I’m looking to get you on a billboard or I’m trying to get you on any kind of traditional media. How does that conversation go with you? You know, I say, hey Mateo, like I’ve got this awesome opportunity. I’ve got a billboard on the corner of this street and your gym, you want to throw up a billboard?

Mateo: 19:54 – You mean someone called my gym?

Mike: 19:56 – Called you, talked to you. Or any business that you’re involved with because I know you got a bunch.

Mateo: 19:59 – Yeah, I mean, so here’s the thing. I think that—we’re really specific in teaching gym owners how to use Facebook to drive traffic. There are a lot of different ways to drive traffic. There are lots of different ways to get people to inquire about an appointment to call your gym, to come in through the door. Getting a billboard could be a really efficient way to do that too. You just have to track it; you have to have a way to track it. Right?

Mike: 20:30 – That’s the thing, right?

Mateo: 20:31 – Yeah. And so, you know, for you, if you get a great deal on, you know, billboard space and you can put a like very unique code or phone number on that billboard and then you can track, you know, whoever saw that, called that number, and then you can track how many people did that and then you can figure out the ROI there. If it’s worthwhile, then great. The reason why I would not advise that is it’s usually really expensive and Facebook is faster and easier and cheaper than doing a billboard or radio or a TV or, you know, a pamphlet in a local restaurant guide or tourism book or whatever. You know what I mean? That stuff’s harder to track. You can track it, but even still, like it’s harder to track. Because here’s the other thing about online ads is like you can, let’s say you have a unique code on the billboard or like a unique phone number, you can track who uses that number, but you won’t be able to track how many people actually saw it, right? With online ads, not only you can track like how many people clicked and opted in from that ad, but you can also see how many people saw it, right? You can also see if something is resonating or people like a certain image, maybe they’re not opting in as much, but maybe that’s because you know the copy’s not good or the copy is good, but the image isn’t, and you can kind of work your way from there. And you have total control over that and can optimize it and fix it in real time versus a billboard, you don’t have those things.

Mike: 22:09 – I’m going to interrupt here cause you hit on two awesome things. So what I’m hearing is you’re right away looking at ROI, no matter what ad spend, if I said billboard, radio, whatever, you’re going to try and find a code, you’re gonna try and find some way to track an ROI. The other thing is with digital stuff, you’re constantly looking at the metrics, like probably daily, right? Hourly, maybe.

Mateo: 22:29 – I’m not looking at them hourly, but you can. I mean, we look at our stuff daily, but like you can, and that’s what’s great about it.

Mike: 22:42 – For a billboard, you’re paying that for a month. If you screw up the creative, you can’t like, you know, change the wording on the billboard without sending a dude up there with a pole.

Mateo: 22:52 – Correct. Exactly. Right. And you won’t even really know. Right. With an ad, at least you can say, all right, well a lot of people are seeing it, but no one’s doing anything. All right, well I can change something really quickly and see if that makes a difference. And the billboard, you don’t have that control. Yeah.

Mike: 23:10 – Nah, not at all. And the final thing is you buy a billboard. How do you control who sees it? You really can’t. It’s just whoever’s walking by, right? So you’ve got this wide swath, which might be good, but later on in this series, I’m going to ask you some questions about targeting and how we’re going for not everybody, we want just the right people. Right? So you know, with a billboard, sure you could get a great response. And I’m not criticizing that medium at all because it does work for some people. But like when I’ve talked to you about how would you get someone, how would you decide who sees that billboard? There’s no way to target.

Mateo: 23:40 – Yeah, no, not really. I mean, I guess you could maybe talk to city planner and create roads that funnel people towards different billboards, but no, exactly. You know, but you can’t, you’re exactly right. I mean, let’s say the billboard is in a part of town where you know all of your people that you want to attract are in. But I mean let’s just go and do it online at that point.

Mike: 24:12 – That’s exactly what I’m hearing, you know? And that’s how I felt because I thought so many times about things that I could do and ads that I could put up, but none of them really made sense to me because I don’t know if it’s gonna work. I don’t know if I’m going to get the right targeting. But with digital I can take a look at it as often as I want and I can make as many adjustments as I want. And I was talking to John about this yesterday about the combinations of headlines and images and videos and text and copy that you guys use. You can tweak all this stuff so quickly. So it’s really like, it’s taking this like 1950s advertising concept of showing everyone this thing on, you know, and forcing me to watch the TV. And now you’re targeting specific people that are more likely to buy. So your leads, even if they’re cold, they’re already warmer than like average person. Right? And then from there you’re taking the creative and you’re working that and manipulating things and changing things and optimizing stuff, and then you’re tracking your ROI. So you’ve got like a system that’s just like light years ahead of like Mad Men.

Mateo: 25:10 – Yeah. And I mean what you said about we don’t need to knock billboards like they work for sure, but we’re tiny, small local businesses, you know.

Mike: 25:23 – I can’t afford one.

Mateo: 25:23 – If we were McDonald’s maybe, but, and that’s the thing too. There’s two types of advertising, really. There’s the kind of branding style where like, you know, Nike puts on an ad and it’s just like, you know, it’s a commercial. It’s just like a bunch of people working hard and like overcoming challenges and just like doing it, right. And that’s meant to elicit, you know, a response where you have a feeling associated with that brand of like overcoming and triumph and like they’ll show that commercial everywhere. So you associate that feeling, right? So that is definitely marketing and that’s advertising, that’s branding.

Mateo: 26:09 – And that’s important for certain brands and certain kinds of businesses. But you can’t really—that’s not direct response, right? That’s not getting someone to take—you might see the benefits of that ad in totality with everything that that company is doing further down the line, maybe next quarter profits go up because you saw that you played this ad 100,000 times in this town or whatever it is. But, but yeah, there’s nothing causing someone to go out and buy right that moment. Like I might see it and be like, I think Nike’s cool cause I saw that ad, but I’m not going to leave my house to go buy some more Nike shoes at that point.

Mike: 26:50 – And branding of that is like millions, right? Like you gotta have a gross of millions of dollars to be able to afford that branding.

Mateo: 26:53 – And then you have like the late night slap shop kinds of ads, right? Where it’s like, you know, the ShamWow where it’s like, check this thing, you got a spill, wipe it away. It’s gone. If you want one, call this number right now. If you do it right now, you’ll get two for the price of one. And we’ll also throw in this pocket book that doubles as a flashlight. And like those are designed—that’s also advertising, that’s also marketing. But you can see it’s very different than the, you know, the Nike inspirational ad. Both are marketing, both are advertising, but you know, one’s designed to elicit like a feeling and a sensation about the brand and the other’s for you to do something, like to get the viewer to have a response, like pick up the phone and call the number. Right?

Mateo: 27:44 – And so yeah, for us, especially with the gym owners, like it’s more important to get a direct response from people. And so that’s what we try to teach.

Mike: 27:55 – Get off the couch.

Mateo: 27:55 – Yeah. It’s like, yo, enter your info if you’re interested in this program and we’ll get back to you real soon. That’s what we try to teach the gym owners and that’s what we do for our business. And that’s because that’s what we need to happen. We need people to come in through the door and inquire and you know, hopefully give us a chance to sell them on a membership. So those are those two types and where I think the billboard might fall into one and I think where Facebook, we’re able to use it, it falls into the other.

Mike: 28:27 – OK. OK. So let’s give small business owners who are listening, let’s give them something that they can do. So some are already tracking online ad spends. That’s great. Others are not. Others aren’t marketing at all. Let’s give these guys something to do. Salespeople show up and say, hey, I’ve got this amazing opportunity. You know, I want you to take this spot in a magazine, on TV, on a billboard, whatever. How can someone who’s thinking about advertising make sure they get a return because we’re talking small business owners who do not have a ton of money to waste.

Mateo: 28:56 – Yeah. If someone’s approaching you for like some kind of partnership or co-branding or maybe they’re trying to sell you ad space on their platform or their, you know, magazine or whatever it is, you know, you just need to ask yourself and ask them, really, how am I going to track who comes in from this ad spot? If they don’t have a good answer for you, then you pretty much can just say thanks, but no thanks.

Mike: 29:25 – And that’s, again, we’re not talking like these things don’t work because TV ads work. We know that, the Superbowl works, we understand that. But if you’re a business like I am, you know, you’re running a business that doesn’t have a huge marketing budget. You need to make sure you get a return on that budget. And exactly what you said, we’re talking about action. Want people to take action to come into our businesses. We’re not building up a long-term good feeling about CrossFit X or whatever gym it is. We’re partially doing that with like our organic content, things like that. But in terms of like the marketing budget that I have, I don’t have LeBron James, I don’t have Nike’s budget. I got to make a response now, and I’m going to do that probably through digital advertising. Are we truly in the golden age of digital advertising?

Mateo: 30:06 – Yeah, we 100% are. And I think exactly what you just said is I think the takeaway. If you have some money set aside for marketing, invest it in some kind of direct response, you know, system, whether it’s Facebook or Google or anything that you can see or get someone to take a response and action with you right now.

Mike: 30:32 – We’re going to close it out there. Mateo, I want to thank you for your time on this. Reminding listeners we are going to be back with more marketing on this episode regularly. Please subscribe to Two-Brain Radio. We’d love it if you guys would leave us a review or a comment. We’re going to be here regularly to bring you the best on marketing. We’ve also got Chris Cooper talking to you guys regularly and bring you tons of business information, and if you guys ever need anything you want to talk about whether a mentor is right for you, please visit and book a call. We’ll talk to you guys about whether mentorship can help you bring more money into your business. I’m Mike Warkentin with Mateo Lopez. This is Two-Brain Radio and we’ll talk to you next time. Thank you.

Greg: 31:10 – Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. Make sure to subscribe to receive the most up-to-date episodes wherever you get your podcasts from. To find out how we can help create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at

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