I’ve got an objection to confronting objections and I’d struggled to sell water in a desert, but Jeff Burlingame thinks he can help me. I’m skeptical. So he’ll confront my objections after a word from Chris Cooper.
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I’m Mike Warkentin. This is Two-Brain Radio. I got into the fitness business because I liked coaching. But five years in, I realized I was really in sales, and I hated that part of the job. On April 24th, sales experts Jeff Burlingame and Joe Marcoux are going to help people like me improve their sales skills. The all-day seminar costs $999, and Jeff says participants can recoup the value seven days after leaving the seminar. Jeff, I am terrible at sales and I think spending 999 on a sales seminar is like burning money. Change my mind. How could someone like me recoup that investment, and in a week no less.
I love it. I love the challenge of it, actually. It’s fantastic. So yeah, the way that we see you recouping those funds within the first seven days is that you’re going into the seminar looking to improve your own confidence and skills like you’re coming out of this seminar though with hopefully some sort of a mind explosion of things where you’re really fighting to figure out what one thing you’re going to take action on. But what we can guarantee is that you do feel more confident about what you are doing when you’re actually selling which the reality of sales is that it’s actually problem-solving. And a lot of the time, once I see a salesperson or I work with them long enough, and that one thing clicks where now they realize, Oh, my main purpose in life is just to discover this person sitting across from me, discover what their problem is, and then show them how we can help them solve that.
And just by connecting those dots, it makes sales easy because sales is really a relationships thing. It’s about developing a relationship with somebody and then showing them through that relationship that you can actually help them solve these dire problems that they actually have. And you can also help them understand that the problems that they have, they’re not taking seriously enough, for example, your health. So how valuable is your health, one’s personal health and well-being versus a new HDTV or, you know, these added accessories to your car that you don’t need, or those five things you’ve had in your wishlist on Amazon for the past one year, right? And yet we see people spending more money than ever on things right now, even amidst a pandemic, which is insane. But you think about how much they actually spend on their own personal well-being, because you know, we’re building this seminar mostly for gym owners for the fitness industry, and we’re not seeing them invest in themselves.
Like this is probably the most unhealthy year that most people have had. So I have no doubt in my mind that you can walk away from the seminar with that added confidence, with a better understanding of what selling actually is, and then turn around and sell probably the most expensive packages you’ve ever sold in your life that you never thought anybody would ever even consider. And the funny thing is we already see people doing this successfully. I’m already working with gym owners and other mentors on our team Two-Brain Business are already working with gym owners who are doing this. And they’re surprising themselves every single day. When, out of nowhere, they sell a $1,200, a $2,000 package. And before going into a call with me or a call with another mentor, or in this example, this seminar, with myself and Joe Marcoux, they never would have thought that that was possible.
Were any of them like me, admittedly bad at sales and hated it?
Absolutely. You know, oftentimes what we see is we’ll see gym owners who are under-valuing their own services because they feel like they have to. They’re charging $80 a month for their membership because the other gyms down the street are doing that. They’re not selling personal training because they don’t feel that anybody would really want to spend that kind of money on their own health or well-being, their fitness. But after considering the fact that that might actually be the better way to solve this person’s problem and that they value the solution of this problem more than the amount of money that you’re charging them for it, it’s easy to sell. When you just talk about solving that problem for them, all of a sudden things start to click. You’re not selling in the way that we think with the used-car salesman analogy. For example, it’s not persuasion, it’s not trickery.
We’re not going to give you 26 one-liners that are going to land you the sale guaranteed every single time, because that’s just not true. And that’s not the way that people should be selling any more. It is a way that worked maybe in the past, but we have educated consumers now. You cannot sell high-value products or services without being able to strategically develop a relationship and structure the sales process in a way that is obviously problem-solving to the consumer. They know what you’re doing, so we’re not trying to trick them. And we’re not going to tell you that spending 999 on this seminar is going to lead to you having the most killer one-liner for a close that has ever existed, because that’s just not true and it doesn’t exist. And it does not work in the year 2021. I promise you that.
See, that was my real problem. Like my greatest problem in sales is that I was kind of raised to not ask people for stuff. Right. I was raised that, you know, you carry your own water, you do your own thing. So if I’ve got this 43-year-old objection to asking people for something and in a sales meeting, I feel like I’m asking someone for something. I feel like it’s almost like they’re giving me charity or pity or something like that. And so there’s an issue there where I’m not seeing the value of my service. And I feel like I’m asking, but what you’re telling me is that instead of me asking them for something, I’m actually solving their problems and the response in there, it should be, Oh my God, I’m so thankful that you’ve solved this problem because I don’t know how to solve it.
Exactly. And you’re highlighting the biggest problem in sales for people that are new to it or adverse to it. And that is the ask, right? So asking for the close, asking for the sale, that’s the thing that people shy away from. In fact, I’ve met many gym owners and salespeople in my time in the sales industry, which is well over a decade. Uh, Joe Marcoux has one-upped me with over 30 years in the industry. So he knows what he’s talking about as well, which is why he’s an amazing co-host for us for this seminar. But you know, the ask is extremely difficult because we overinflate the problem. Like I’ve met many gym owners and salespeople as I’ve worked to develop them over time where they’re amazing. They’re stellar at the interviewing process, the beginning part of what we call the no sweat intro at Two-Brain Business or your sales process.
And they get to know people really well. They develop that relationship. They discover some really good goals. They discover the why behind those goals, that emotional tie down for the consumer. And then they get to the close and they just freeze on the spot and they just don’t know what to do. They can’t proceed. They might say something like, well, how does that sound? And it’s like the most non-confident, ridiculous thing they’ve ever said. And they’re embarrassed. And you see the color drain from their face. And they’re just very frustrated in where they are right now. And the consumer’s frustrated too, because now you’re the non-confident salesperson, which is arguably worse than not trying to sell at all because they don’t trust you anymore. You’re losing that trust you worked so hard to develop because now they’re like, why is he concerned about asking me for this sale?
They want you to ask for the sale. They want you to finalize the appointment. They want you to close the deal with them. They want to sign up because they like you. But now you have no confidence in what it is that you’re selling. Now they’re concerned. Like, does he not believe in the product? Does he not think that this will help me? Because he doesn’t sound very confident about it. Put yourself in the shoes of buying a new car or house. Right. And your realtor is walking into your house and walk up at the end of the deal. They’re just saying like, Hey, so you know, what do you think? We say, Yeah, it looks pretty good. They’re like, Hey, would you, uh, would you like to maybe live here? Possibly?
Where are the corpses, Jeff?
You’re like, OK. So the foundation is going to collapse on us day one. Got it. Cool. Not going to buy this house. No, they should deliver that with extreme confidence. So I would argue this, like, if you’re not confident in the close, then you’re not confident in the service or the product that you’re selling.
So I’m going to ask you this, I’m going to jump in and I got to ask you this. If you’re not feeling confident, like, let’s say, you’re either a new gym owner or you’re just someone who’s not just, you know, you just struggle with this. And for whatever reason you undervalue yourself, how can you then find that confidence or even like, do you fake that confidence when you don’t have at the beginning? How do you get that?
I think it’s a combination of both of those things, because I also believe that a lot of people have anxiety tied to money. So you’re anxious about asking for money because it’s money. Like we all have that anxiety and that’s fine. That’s something that you’re going to have to fake. You’re just going to have to overcome that and say like, think of it this way. Don’t project on others your own feelings. So just try to—and this is a mantra. You just have to tell yourself, like, don’t do that. So talk to yourself about, you know, your own personal feelings with money and understand that those are your personal feelings. And I’ll give you an example. I had an amazing sales experience with a person at a gym I was working at, this would have been about seven or eight years ago.
But he came into the gym and I was projecting. I was fairly new to that gig at the time, selling high value, you know, one and two year contract, personal training programs that could be valued up to like six to $8,000. And you know, this guy comes in, he’s wearing beat-up shoes, you know, raggedy clothes, saw the car he drove up in and it wasn’t that great. And I’m projecting now. I’m like this guy doesn’t really have money. I’m selling these like expensive PT packages. There’s no way this is going to work out. But I had been listening to some really good audio books, on my way to and from work for a couple of months at this point. So I decided just to channel one of the things I had learned, which is not projecting.
So I did exactly what I’m saying. I told myself like, look, man, how you feel about money is different from how other people feel about money and don’t judge a book by its cover. I mean, I think that’s something all of our moms told us at some point, right? So I decided just to roll with it, just do the appointment as if he drove a Mercedes Benz. Like, I don’t know any Mercedes class cars, but dude rolled up in a Mercedes. So I’m like, all right, he’s fine. This is going to go great. And what I tell myself, every single sales appointment, regardless of what I’m selling is that I’m going to A, like this person or find a way to like this person, B, I’m going to discover this person’s problem and C, I’m going to show them how what I sell or what I’m offering is going to help them solve that problem.
Like no matter what, A, B and C are going to be completed, every single sales appointment I have, whether or not, you know, it’s a person that rolls up like that. Like not looking the quote unquote part that I’m looking for, of having money, et cetera. Or if it’s a person who’s like hard to like, right. If they’re absolutely not a good fit for my service or product, I’ll let them know. And that’s fine. Like that does happen. But it happens so much more rarely than I feel, especially gym owners let on to, like, I feel a lot of us, we let ourselves off easy. We’re like, they weren’t a good fit. That wasn’t a qualified lead. Like that’s the easy cop-out answer. Or you could be more introspective and say, Oh, I missed that sale. What could I learn from that sale?
Or from that sales process that I went through just now that I could improve my sales process for the future. And for example, at the seminar that we have coming up, April 24th, and me and Joe Marcoux, we are offering up a worksheet, it’s called a sales debrief. And it’s for exactly this purpose. It is objective. It is something you would do every single sales appointment immediately following the appointment, you sit down, you answer the questions, what happened? It’s black and white. There’s no gray areas. And then get a takeaway from that. Learn from that. I don’t care if the person rolled in and you know, they were starting the exact opposite political views as you and causing a ruckus. Like you still learn from that appointment. Maybe that’s something in your lead generation side of things where you, you let them, you know, believe that, you were of the opposite view. I don’t know. But the whole point is that you just take something away from every single appointment, rather than just saying, Oh, well, that’s done now. And moving on to say the next appointment or jumping into coach a class or whatever it is that you have coming up next.
I really like that because I know that I’m, you know, you can make so much progress with me in this weekend seminar, but in reality, it’s going to take more reps and practice for me to really get good at sales. So this tool is going to help me learn from being bad at sales and incrementally get better over time. Have I got that right?
Yeah. Except nobody’s bad at sales. That is something I like to highlight right off the bat. Everybody says they’re bad at sales. And it’s really just something that you kind of build up in your own mind where you’re like, Oh, I didn’t make that sale. Didn’t make that sale. I must be bad at sales. No, you just have a bad sales process. You just have an off mindset. Like there’s one thing you need to tweak, which is again, like why we know, like I’m not even going to say that I believe, like, I know you would walk out of this seminar and make your 999 back just because you just have to find that and identify that one thing that you’re using as like this cop-out excuse to say that you’re bad at sales. You’re not bad at sales.
Now you sound so confident, Jeff, that I’m getting a little excited here and I kind of want to sign up right away. You sound confident in your product.
I mean, you should. You gotta be confident and deliver. Right. And but that’s exactly it, like, there’s one thing you’re missing. I promise you. It’s just one thing. And once you figure that out.
Hi, this is Chris Cooper, and I founded Two-Brain Business to make gyms profitable. Over the last years, as we’ve compiled more and more data, more and more tools, gotten better and better at mentorship, we’ve really made a lot of gyms, hundreds around the world, thousands over the years, profitable, doing better. What hasn’t kept pace is the quality of coaching in a lot of gyms worldwide. There are great programs out there that will introduce you to a method like bootcamp, kettlebells, Olympic lifting, powerlifting, CrossFit, running, whatever that is. And so we can make coaches who know the subject matter, but that doesn’t make them a great coach. To be a great coach, you have to be able to change somebody’s habits. You have to be able to change their behavior and to do that requires deep understanding of their motivations to do that means amazing adherence by the client. And it means amazing retention because as gym owners, we know it’s harder and harder and more expensive than ever to get a new client. Retention is more important than ever. Referrals are more important than ever. Peer to peer marketing, word of mouth is more important than it’s ever been. How do you get those things? Through client results. So I founded Two-Brain Coaching with Josh Martin to get coaches the skills they actually need to make a career in fitness instead of just familiarity with a methodology. Twobraincoaching.com has courses to help you start a career with personal training, to scale up with group training, both in person and online, and to diversify with nutrition, coaching, and mindset coaching. We have the best programs in the industry that will prepare you and your coaches to deliver any method that you love now or you might love 10 years from now. Twobraincoaching is really a project of love for me. And if you visit twobraincoaching.com, you’ll get a ton of free resources, just like we produce every day on twobrainbusiness.com.
You know, for me, I’ll just, you know, to give some insight for people maybe who are listening, for me, it’s not about building the relationship, like on a podcast, I can literally talk to anyone, speak to them, find out all about them. And that whole thing. It’s the closing, it’s the asking for the stuff, right? So it’s not finding out problems. It’s not even solving problems. It’s giving them that tool and saying it’s $1,200, buy it. Right. And so for me, you know, when you lead that through that, it’s probably, I’m not bad at sales, I’m bad at closing sales or asking.
Exactly. And you got to figure out why that is, whether it’s the just asking for the money part and which is just muscle memory, by the way. So if you guys are bad at just asking a question or asking for a thing or money, then I would challenge you to one, ask yourself in a mirror for $10,000, 150 times, and then to ask a partner, spouse, significant other, for the same thing, 150 times, and then three, ask a stranger if you can borrow $2.
I like it. I get squidgy inside just thinking about it, but I see how it would help.
But it’s muscle memory, right? So if you just do that, if you just practice that, it becomes second nature, it becomes something that you don’t fear any more. Now, put yourself into a sales situation where somebody is actually seeking you out. They came to you, planning to buy. Don’t ever believe that somebody showed up window shopping and they didn’t intend buy. If they’re there for especially a no sweat intro in the gym industry, they are serious about buying. That is an invested, interested buyer. They want to hear the numbers. They want you to close them. And if it’s a good fit, they’ll say yes. So not asking for the sale is you just throwing that money away.
Yeah. Now, because you got me to think about asking someone for two bucks, I’ve got the anxiety sweats. So let’s just quickly change the subject here. What if someone is really good at sales, someone has, you know, limited problems does pretty good, but it’s still as interested in your seminar. How will you and Joe help a more advanced salesperson who’s already pretty decent at sealing the deal.
Absolutely. I love it. So, the one thing that we see most often in the gym industry for example, is that you can’t replace yourself. So if you, and one of the hardest roles to replace yourself in any business is going to be sales and then possibly marketing. So if you’re the best seller in the gym, the way I do that is if you want to move on to other projects, to grow yourself as an entrepreneur, to just take a vacation, if you leave that gym, does anything get sold? And if the answer is no or not nearly as much as if you were there, that’s a problem. So one thing you can take away is how to develop other salespeople. There’s going to be a lot of discussion about the sales debrief, about learning about your sales rhythm, your sales personality, like how you sell and how to discuss that with others.
So as you’re developing a sales staff and then how to role play is going to be a huge part of this, and there will be a lot of role-play that goes on because this is an active seminar, we’re not going to sit there and talk to you on a TV screen for five to six hours, it’s going to be participatory. So if you show up, plan to role-play, everybody will talk and it’s not one-on-one role-play, the way we’re going to do it is more dynamic. So you’ll actually see like myself or Joe be the center point or the buyer, while everybody else, and currently we have like 35 people signed up for this thing, everybody else is attempting to sell us, right? So everybody gets a shot. You get one line to say to us, and then we’ll give you feedback on that. And it goes on like that the entire time.
And you can do that with your team. We’re going to teach you how to do that as well, it’s extremely effective. It’s a lot of fun. It’s very active and there’s never that time where if you guys have ever done one-on-one role play where it’s me versus you and everybody else watches, it’s extremely awkward, right? Nobody wants to do it. Cause really awkward feels weird. Like we all have a relationship. As in we’re like friends, coworkers, whatever. And that makes it even more awkward than doing it with a stranger for whatever reason. But this type of role play is just, it’s fast paced. It’s fun. It’s active. So that would be one huge thing I would say. The other thing is obviously you need to keep sharpening the ax. So myself, I still get nervous when I go into a sales appointment.
I still need to say that same mantra.
Even after a decade and more.
Oh yeah, absolutely. And Joe will say the same thing. He’s three decades in. No salesperson, unless they’re lying goes into a sales process or appointment with 110% confidence through the roof. Like they’re not worried about anything. They might put that persona on and that’s part of the character and that’s part of what they’re doing. And that’s part of what helps them sell. And that’s great.
Giving away the secrets, Jeff.
Well, I mean, it’s true and that’s what, I’ll do that too. If I go into a sales appointment, if you saw me go into it, I would look extremely confident. Like I’m not worried at all. Inside. I still have those, you mentioned the cold sweats earlier. Like I still get those. I still have to hype myself up.
I still have to get pumped up. Everybody does. And you know, again, if they say they don’t, they’re lying. But part of it is, you know, how do you further sharpen that ax? You continue to learn. You continue to hear from other people, other experts in the industry, people like Joe Marcoux, right. And you’re going to have a really good takeaway just for yourself alone. But then also, like I mentioned, developing a team, which means that you buy yourself freedom and you can get other people to sell. Like Joe and I have developed hundreds and hundreds of salespeople. We’ve been doing this for a long time. We know what we’re talking about and we can definitely help you and your team.
So that’s the benefit. You can fix yourself, learn how to improve your own sales skills. Then you can fix your team, develop salespeople, allow you to offload roles and tasks. And you know, I’ve got that problem solved because people at my gym, when I had staff and I had a physical location, they sold better than I did. So I already solved that problem by replacing myself. Right? So I’m way ahead of the game. But that shows you how, you know, the sales seminar is going to help two different kinds of gym owner. I want to ask you this because sales to me seems like a huge overwhelming concept. In a recent YouTube video, you talked about how it’s an all day seminar, but it’s not going to be overwhelming, like drinking from a fire hose. So how are you and Joe going to make things easy and actionable when this is just this gigantic thing that’s so intimidating for so many people.
Yeah, absolutely. So we have four main topics that we’re going to be covering, between two talks by Joe, which covered more of his proprietary systems. So you’re getting an insight into a program that he offers for well over 599 a week right now. So yeah, like you’re getting a really good deal off of Joe’s program just from those two talks alone. And then I’ll be covering two topics. One is going to be all about mindset. The other is all about role play and how to further develop yourself and/or your team and our goal for you going into the seminar is to, you’ll get the recordings afterwards. So hear me out here. Take one thing, just one thing and go attack that. Like if you—it’s a virtual seminar. So if you hop on in the beginning, I would encourage you to participate the whole day.
But if you hop on in the beginning, that first talk I do about the sales debrief and about your mindset is what hits you. And you’re like, that’s what I’m going to take action on. Then basically tune out the rest of the time, just participate in the like breakout sessions that we’re going to do via zoom. So you can meet with other people. You can network, you can practice some sales role play, that’s all good stuff. And just go through the motions for the rest of it and watch the recordings later because you just need that one thing to take action on for that week. So yeah, if you try to take notes on every single thing and ingest every single thing and then go attack every single thing, you’re probably going to accomplish almost nothing, because it will be like drinking from a fire hose, but you just need that one big action step to go after for that week.
And then I honestly, I would say tune out for the rest, like just participate or the way that we’re running this right now, by the way I need to mention the 999 covers yourself and one staff member. So if you have like a business partner or a staff member that you want to bring with you, it covers both of you for that price.
So it’s like 498, really.
Pretty much. Yeah. So you bring that one person with you. So you take one big thing and they take one big thing. There you go. You’re doubling up right there.
No, it’s interesting because Chris Cooper, Two-Brain founder, has written about this and talked about how going to a seminar or a weekend seminar or conference or whatever, you just get so overwhelmed. One of the best techniques he said was just when you find that action item, just go up to your hotel room and spend the rest of the weekend doing that thing and taking action rather than sitting through the rest of the speakers and then, or even like reading a book, right? You read the book, you find the one thing that you need, throw the book down and just start doing it. So that’s something that you’re saying we can do at this seminar because our recording. So then you can come back to the quote unquote book that you enjoy writing and just take action on the next thing, right? So you’re going to be there for the whole time.
Cause if everyone followed your advice, you’d have, you and Joe would just be talking about sales and everyone else would be upstairs working already. But the idea would be take action, like make a note, the first big bullet that you find, make a huge note on a single sheet of paper, whatever, and do that next, but then sit there, absorb as much as you can without getting overwhelmed. Then take action on that big thing afterward. Is that the plan?
Quickly tell me who is Joe Marcoux? I’ll preface it by saying if someone has been in sales for 30 years, he or she is obviously a good salesperson because you don’t live long in the industry if you’re not good at it. So just tell me a quick bit about Joe, as we close out here, who is he and what can you do for you?
Yeah, so Joe’s been, as I said, in the sales industry for a long time. Currently he works with a really wide variety of different salespersons. So, what he offers right now is a weekly program where you hop on a call with him and as a group, I believe he has no more than six in each of these groups. Just so it’s more active. Then you’re doing active role-play and he walks you from, basically through like all the different objections or the tougher part of the sales process that I think most of us experience and like works you through, like exactly to handle those things. Again, it’s not direct one-liners, but it’s more thinking outside the box and like how to solve those problems. And the funny thing about it is that the people that he works with, and I’ve been on a few of these calls with him just to observe, but they come from so many different sales industries.
There’s like people who are selling bicycles, like in the bicycle industry. We have people who are selling like online coaching. We have people that are selling, you know, consultant and mentorship programs, just all over the place from products to services. But sales is a universal language, which is, you know, I’ve mentioned on this podcast a few times so far that we’re mostly making this for the gym industry. However, because of the fact that sales is a universal language, this could apply to anyone. So if you’re like, if you’re listening to this, I don’t know how you happen across a gym podcast, but if you’re listening to this and you’re not in the gym industry, and you’re still looking to do, you want to develop your sales team, you want to develop yourself as a salesperson. This could actually apply to you as well.
But yeah, so Joe’s been doing this for a long time. He calls it the sales dojo, because his name’s Joe and, you know, we’re all kind of like facing off in this little role-play session, which is a ton of fun. And like I said, it’s, everybody goes—Joe is playing the role of the buyer, everybody else is the seller. He presents an objection. Everybody gets a chance to respond to that objection. It’s super cool, dynamic and fun to watch and listen to. And people develop over time. And you know, other than that, you can go check out Joemarcoux.com. He has his own website, talks a lot about his sales training programs. He’s also got another program called Army of One, but the guy does awesome stuff and he’s been doing it for a long time and he’s really developing this program. So, you know, again, going to this seminar is kind of like getting a, you know, a bite sized sample of that, which is highly valuable in and of itself.
Final question. How many times will you guys refer to Glen Gary, Glen Ross during the seminar?
I mean, coffee is for closers, but probably only one time. Right at the beginning.
So the over-under is one, so if you’re a betting person out there, you can pick that and we’ll see what it comes down to. Jeff, thank you so much for sharing this. It really gives a ton of clarity, especially in the, you know, like I said to you before we started recording here, I’m not acting, I am legitimately, I don’t have good sales skills. So this is a really interesting thing. So for you’re out there listening, and you’re someone like me, or if you’re someone who’s far better than I am, and you’re looking to sharpen your pencil, so to speak or give that pencil to one of your staff people, definitely take a look at this seminar and we’ll get that link in the show notes for you. Jeff, thanks for selling me on the seminar. And we’ll talk to you again soon.
Thanks for having me.
That was Jeff Burlingame, our sales expert here on Two-Brain Radio. I’m your host, Mike Warkentin. I’m also one of the admins in the private Facebook group, Gym Owners United, and I need you in that group. We’re assembling the best gym owners in the world so we can help each other through tough times. If you have not joined the group yet, please do so today via the link in the show notes. Be sure to answer all the intake questions and enjoy the company of helpful entrepreneurs just like you. That’s Gym Owners United on Facebook.