Sean: 00:05 – Hi everybody. Welcome to another edition of Two-Brain Radio with Sean Woodland. On today’s episode, I speak with adaptive athlete and owner of CrossFit WatchTower, Kevin Ogar. My friends, I do not own a gym, but I can tell you this. If I had one, I’d be on Chris Cooper’s website a lot. Chris cranks out helpful content daily and he’s created a huge pile of free guides that solve common problems for gym owners. To get 15 free resources, including a guide on member retention, visit TwoBrainbusiness.com/free-tools. Kevin Ogar is one of the most well-known adaptive athletes in the CrossFit community. He suffered an accident at a competition in 2014 that left him paralyzed below the waist. He is the subject of the documentary “Ogar: Will of Steel.” After his accident, Kevin went on to become a member of the CrossFit seminar staff, open his own affiliate, start a charity, and compete on the US Paralympic powerlifting team. Kevin joined me on the phone during his commute home from his affiliate in Englewood, Colorado. Enjoy the conversation everybody. Kevin, thanks so much for taking the time to do this. How you doing man?
Kevin: 01:20 – I’m doing just fine. Just got done coaching, now heading home.
Sean: 01:24 – All right. What did fitness look like for you before you found CrossFit?
Kevin: 01:31 – OK. Before CrossFit I was, you know, one of the meathead powerlifter-type guys. Actually competed in powerlifting for a very long time prior to CrossFit. I mean I picked up the barbell for the first time when I was like 12. Didn’t find CrossFit until I was 21. 20, 21 years old is when I found CrossFit. And so before CrossFit it was, you know, lift something heavy, you know, back, bench, deadlift, maybe some curls, then waddle my fat butt out of the gym.
Sean: 02:08 – What was it about powerlifting that appealed to you?
Kevin: 02:12 – I just love a heavy barbell. Like there’s something about moving something heavy and doing the work to move something heavy that really appealed to me.
Sean: 02:23 – What then led you to find CrossFit?
Kevin: 02:28 – Well, a couple of things—I found CrossFit through—I was working for a guy as a personal trainer. Jeremy Yates was his name, if he’s out there still, and he started doing CrossFit. He was in the Marines and kinda challenged me to it and I kept turning it down and finally like, I was also starting to play rugby at this point in time and realized I couldn’t run 400 meters without having to sit down. And one day he challenged me to a workout and he’s like, yeah, you know, you should come do it with me and the other the trainers, like my girlfriend’s gonna do it with us and she’s like a tiny little thing. And you know, me being a meathead guy was like, well, if she can do it, I’ll be fine. And then they programmed the workout 21-15-9 handstand push-ups and L pull-ups.
Kevin: 03:19 – At the time I was about 230, 240 pounds, somewhere in there. And had never flipped upside down on my hands a day in my life. And so there ended up being a Kevin-sized hole in the wall.
Sean: 03:34 – Oh man. Yeah. It is not fun when you’re that size trying to get inverted for the first time. Why did you stick with it? What hooked you about it?
Kevin: 03:43 – I lost to everyone. I mean I finished the workout, you know, at the time I probably was benching somewhere around 400 pounds and I was, I was doing 20-pound dumbbell push press instead of handstand push-ups and struggling. It took me like 20-some odd minutes, you know, probably close to the 30 if I’m being honest and everyone else was done in six minutes. And so I just realized I was really bad at it.
Sean: 04:09 – You go from being really bad at it to being a competitor. What led you to being a competitor in CrossFit?
Kevin: 04:17 – Well, Sean, I don’t like being told that I cannot do something. And the exact reason I started competing in CrossFit, I was doing the.com workout of the day and they had posted a video, and this is back in 2007-ish, 2008. And they posted a video of Chris Spealler doing the same workout and I think I was like two reps behind him on an AMRAP and like my training partner at the time, I was like, hey man, that’s pretty cool. I’m only two reps behind Chris Spealler. Like, that’s legit. And he like, yeah, dude, there’s no way you’ll ever be able to compete with Chris Spealler or get to that level. And I go, all right, well I guess that’s what I’m doing now.
Kevin: 05:07 – I do believe the first year I got to compete against Chris at a Regional, I think it was like 2012, I’m pretty sure I snapped a picture of him and sent it to my friend just to rub it in a little bit.
Sean: 05:22 – What then did training look like for you as a CrossFit competitor?
Kevin: 05:27 – At first it was just like everyone else, it was one workout a day. I’d go in, I’d warm up, I hit the workout as hard as I could with every last ounce of strength that I had and I maybe I’d mess around with some skills or playing around with some barbell work. But that was it. Like literally one workout a day for the first, I dunno, probably four or five years of what we’ll call my CrossFit career. It wasn’t until like my last probably two years trying to compete that I started adding more than that.
Sean: 05:58 – What happened on January 12th, 2014?
Kevin: 06:03 – I was competing in the OC Throwdown, a fitness competition in California and due to some unsafe set-up, they stacked some plates behind me during a snatch portion of the competition. The barbell ricocheted off the plates behind me and hit me in my back and gave me really great parking for the rest of my life. Or paralysis, however you want to look at it.
Sean: 06:21 – What, you obviously knew something was wrong when it happened, but when you hear from a medical professional that you are paralyzed from the waist down, what is that like?
Kevin: 06:42 – Being an athlete a whole life, it was pretty gut wrenching. Luckily at that point in time they had already put me on some drugs. I mean I remember it, but I think a lot of the worst of it is forgotten in my mind. Just cause I was kind of drugged up, trying to get into surgery. I remember the doctor walking in and be like, hey, I have some bad news. And I was like, yeah, I’m paralyzed. Like, will I ever walk again? He said, no. And you know, I lost it. Cried. Yelled. Probably screamed a little bit, but I think I took it at least decently well, I guess.
Sean: 07:17 – You wound up at Craig Hospital for rehabilitation after your injury. First off, how were you able to get admitted there?
Kevin: 07:27 – I got admitted there because of the CrossFit community and my best friend Ryan. So Ryan grew up next door to the vice president of Craig Hospital and between Ryan and CrossFitters in the area that knew Craig, they harassed them so much that they had no choice but to let me in. I think the story goes, and I don’t know how true this is, the story goes that they actually had so many people calling and Ryan was calling so often that they actually had to open up a secondary line for like a hotline for them. So they basically got harassed until they let me in.
Sean: 08:03 – What was that rehabilitation process like for you?
Kevin: 08:10 – Frustrating. I mean, I’d always been someone who was fairly physically gifted. I never really sucked at any sports. Like I was pretty good at picking things up physically. And pretty quickly. And so going from someone who, you know, physical task were something he was comfortable with to not being able to tie my own shoe or sit up on my own or like use the restroom by myself, it was a pretty rough time. But I think Craig does a really good job of, you know, helping you through it and kind of getting you to the other side.
Sean: 08:46 – I’m sure that there were low moments in there for you from a mental standpoint. How did you deal with that?
Kevin: 08:53 – There definitely was. I mean, I would lying if I didn’t say that I chucked my chair across the room a few times or, you know, yelled or screamed or scared some people with how mad I was. But I mean, I got through it first and foremost, probably, you know, my personal faith, I’m a Christian and I feel like God put me on this earth for a very specific reason. And I think even though it sucked and I didn’t understand at the time, I think I always kind of understood that me being paralyzed as part of a bigger picture for me, for what God wanted me to do. I think the other side of it that I was also surrounded by the CrossFit community. I had thousands upon thousands of messages and people supporting me. And so really, between those messages and my friends was never given a chance to go down the wrong path.
Sean: 09:49 – You were surrounded by people at Craig who I’m assuming were going through similar ordeals. How did that help you through your time there?
Kevin: 10:00 – It made making the paraplegic jokes a little easy, there was more than one of us making them at the time. You know, just seeing other peoples’ struggles and other things people go through, just like in CrossFit, shared suffering is a very powerful thing, a very powerful thing. And I think the shared suffering that we went through at Craig, I mean, I still talk to like a lot of the people that were in Craig with me.
Sean: 10:22 – You mentioned across the community and how much they helped you. What types of things did the community do for you specifically to help you get through that time?
Kevin: 10:32 – I woke up from my first surgery with a fundraiser of like $300,000 to help pay for medical expenses. And that was four or five days after the accident, it was already that high. They did this massive fundraiser, Barbells for Boobs stopped everything for a week and like and focused on helping me, and they’re just really phenomenal and great people, that—their job was like breast cancer detection, and then resources after detection, and they stopped what they were doing to help some guy who just got paralyzed. So that’s huge of them. And then outside of even just the monetary thing, like I said, thousands of messages from all around the world that, you know, from Germany, Japan, Australia, South America, just, you know, words of encouragement. I had people who were already in a wheelchair that had been dealing with this for a while who reached out and became mentors of mine. You know, Chris Stoutenburg, Angel Gonzales and Steph Hammerman, like immediately reached out to me and kind of let me know like, hey, this sucks, but you’ll be OK. And I think none of that would’ve happened without the CrossFit community.
Sean: 11:41 – Why do you think what happened to you resonated with so many people?
Kevin: 11:48 – I think all of us in training have had those scares where we almost got hurt or we almost got injured and, you know, kind of squeaked by or, you know, had narrow misses. And I think having someone, you know, I talked to a few guys that I used to compete with and they’re like, yeah, that could have been any of us, any of us could have bailed backwards and had that barbell from behind us. And, you know, I think people, at least the competitors that I worked out with and other people who train hard, kind of understood like what it meant to have that taken away.
Sean: 12:20 – How were you able to come to terms with what happened and not only do that, but then move forward and get to accomplishing the things that you wanted to do in your life?
Kevin: 12:34 – Well I’ve always said that I think that there are some common denominators I’ve seen with people who have done really well with situations like this. And they’re a sense of humor. You know, family, whether that be like blood-related family or your community, and then faith. I think those three things combined can pull someone through any situation, period
Sean: 13:01 – Less than two years after your accident, you open your own CrossFit affiliate, CrossFit WatchTower. What did it mean to you to be able to accomplish that at that point?
Kevin: 13:13 – Honestly, I never saw myself as an affiliate owner. I didn’t think that was where my life was heading. Unfortunately the gym that I had been working at for like, five, six years was shutting down and you know, I’d worked really hard to build that community. And I don’t want to say I was forced to because I really love what I do and everything. But it kind of just was one of those things, it was like either lose the community you built or open your own gym. And so I just chose to open the gym and try to keep that community that had been such a powerful impact on me alive.
Sean: 13:46 – Why is coaching people so important to you?
Kevin: 13:52 – I think it’s important to me because coaching can literally change someone’s life. If I look back at the most influential people in my life who shaped me as a man, almost all of them are coaches. You know, my dad was my coach growing up for all the sports. I’m basically like a younger version—younger and better-looking version of my dad. You know, I had coaches through, you know, high school and coaches through college who just had a huge impact on who I became as a human being. And, I think that’s important to pass down. You know, I think all of us want to leave an impact on this world and I think we all gravitate towards the field that had the most impact on us. And for me it was coaching, you know, being able to talk people through things, improve their lives, like build confidence in themselves, not just in inside the gym, but also outside the gym. I don’t take that responsibility lightly.
Sean: 14:52 – Same day you opened your affiliate, you started the Reveille Project. What is that?
Kevin: 14:57 – So the Reveille Project, we are a nonprofit organization and me and Ryan, my best friend Ryan, he was in the Marines and got blown up twice while he was in, kept all 10 fingers and all 10 toes, but had some, TBI issues and neck issues and some behavioral issues because of all that kind of stuff when he first got out. And, you know, through like fitness, nutrition, community and faith kind of turned his life around from kind of drinking and doing stupid things to now being a loving father of three kids who is, you know, out there helping other people and is very successful at what he does. And so I think we recognize the power of, you know, fitness, nutrition, community and faith. And we wanted to give back to veterans who don’t have access to it. So we provide a year scholarship and that year we pay for a CrossFit gym membership near them. We pay for nutritional counseling if they choose to seek it out. We’ll pay for some physical therapy sessions and then we’ll encourage them and try to get them linked up with other organizations like Faith Rx that do like faith-based action projects within their community.
Sean: 16:08 – We’ll let Kevin Ogar take a quick break while I tell you about 500-pound deadlifts. To get a big deadlift, you need to follow all the steps in order. It’s a journey. You can’t just step up to a heavy bar every day and pull. It is the same deal with business. So Chris Cooper has mapped out the exact steps a gym owner must take to level up and eventually reach wealth. All these steps are based on research and data. There’s no guesswork anymore. A Two-Brain mentor can help you analyze your business, figure out where you’re at, and then tell you the exact things you need to do to grow. It’s all in the new Two-Brain road map available to clients. To find out if working with a mentor is right for you, book a free call at twobrainbusiness.com. Now, more with Kevin Ogar. How does helping others help you?
Kevin: 17:03 – Oh man, big question. I think we’re not meant to live alone. I think God put us on this earth to help other people. We’re not here for ourselves. And I think living for yourself or living selfishly, will always leave you wanting something. You’re always second guessing yourself. But living to help others, living to build this community and help your fellow man, I think that no matter how bad your situation is or maybe even how depressed you get, like helping other people, I don’t know, it’s never been about, helping myself, but helping other people will always kind of turn things around. I don’t know how to put it eloquently, but I think the more you live for others, I think the more selfless you live, no matter the situation, the happier you’ll be.
Sean: 17:59 – Why did you decide then to try out for the US Paralympic powerlifting team?
Kevin: 18:07 – Well, that’s easy. I just like lifting heavy things. And I was kind of told at the beginning of my quest for that, that I would never be able to bench enough or be strong enough because CrossFitters don’t know how to move a barbell well enough.
Sean: 18:23 – What was it like to then be able to call yourself a competitor again?
Kevin: 18:29 – I mean I already had at that point, I’d done some like, I did Wodapalooza a few times. I worked out at like the WheelWOD and done some of the WheelWOD competitions. But to be able to call myself a competitor for the USA, it was a pretty big deal. I got to compete in a few international competitions and wear the USA colors and USA name and represent my country. So I think that was really cool. Once again, I was told I was not supposed to. So of course I chased it down.
Sean: 18:58 – CrossFit has always had, you’ve mentioned this, an incredible adaptive athlete community. What’s it been like for you to be able to bring more attention to that group?
Kevin: 19:12 – I feel like that’s, what I was put on this earth to do. Like I think I was put on this earth and built up my entire life to help, you know, a population that I feel like was kind of overlooked and underserved and told time and time again that no you can’t and no you shouldn’t. And I like being able to be a part of the group that’s kind of furthering that movement has been, it’s been basically the job of a lifetime. Like I get opportunity that I never I saw coming and could not—once I had the opportunity, could not believe how much I loved it.
Sean: 19:50 – We all know what the sense of community is like in the CrossFit realm. What’s it like with that adaptive athlete community?
Kevin: 19:59 – I mean, it’s no different. Community’s the exact same. We just have better jokes. Literally that’s it. Like it’s like, I don’t feel like there’s two communities. There’s not this adaptive community and then like the CrossFit community, it’s just the CrossFit community. And you see that within gyms like my own, who we don’t have special adaptive classes. We don’t have like our adaptive athletes come at this time and then our able-bodied athletes come at another time. Everyone’s in one class. In fact, we tell like one community, one class. Like we don’t want people to be separate. So I don’t think there’s a difference. I think it’s the exact same. Some of us have better parking and some of us have to walk in the gym.
Sean: 20:46 – What is your reaction when somebody, regardless of who it is, says that you are an inspiration to them?
Kevin: 20:55 – I know it comes from a good place and I know it frustrates other people, but I get that they’re trying to be nice and so I don’t like to return being mean or being frustrated from someone just trying to be nice to me. It’s a teachable moment. Like, you know, maybe like, hey, thank you so much. Like what have I inspired you to do? Or like, hey, thank you so much, but you know, I’m just living a life that everyone else would live and I think those who get frustrated with it and kind of snap about it, you know, that’s on them. If that’s how they want to deal with it, that’s great. But, again, that’s a way to live selflessly. Like, let them have that. They’re saying that almost more for them than they are for you. And if you can realize that, then just let them have it.
Sean: 21:44 – Are you uncomfortable when people tell you that?
Kevin: 21:46 – Yeah. Well I’m super awkward as it is, Sean, I’m very awkward. Oddly enough, as much as it may sound weird, I don’t generally like being the center of attention. And so compliments make me super awkward.
Sean: 22:03 – I’m sure you talk to people who have gone through or are going through a similar situation to yours. What is your message to them to help them get through it?
Kevin: 22:17 – Oh yeah. I talk to people from Craig or new patients from Craig Hospital fairly often. In fact, they come to my gym like probably every other month or so with new patients and we put them through a workout and we sit there and talk to them, and I tell them the same message every time. Like, your life isn’t over, just cause your legs don’t work or because this doesn’t work or you know, you can choose how you want the situation to go, and I’ve seen people be very successful. Even like I’m probably more successful now at what I do than I was before I got hurt because of the opportunities that the wheelchair afforded me. And not because like it inherently happens with the wheelchair, because I chose to take those opportunities. And so I always tell them the three things, man. When you’re dealing with that kind of stuff and you’re really kind of beat down, like make sure you get out of the house, make sure you do something physically active and make sure you shower cause no one likes someone smelly in a wheelchair.
Kevin: 23:08 – And so I think, I don’t know, I think that’s my kind of message. You kind of can choose this for this to be a very, very good thing or a very, very bad thing, but it’s 100% up to you.
Sean: 23:18 – The first time I met you in person, I was shocked at the aura of positivity that just resonated from you. Where do you think that comes from? And I’m not joking about that.
Kevin: 23:28 – Oh man. Well thank you. Getting awkward.
Kevin: 23:33 – Yeah. I grew up with some pretty amazing parents who instilled some pretty amazing perspective in my life. You know, I had a great dad and a great mom who are still together to this day and are tremendously amazing humans. And my mom used to always say like, yeah, this may suck for you, but remember, someone else always has this worse and wishes they had your opportunities and your gifts. And so don’t waste them just cause you feel bad about them. And I think my dad taught me that the value of hard work and you know, no matter how bad the situation is, like hard work can always pull you out of it. An, you know, they also instilled that kind of selfless help-others attitude in me. And I also feel like the faith that they brought me up in also allows me to kind of see things like, this is not—that my life is not my own. Like I’m not here for me, I’m here to do the work I was put on this earth to do. And like, I think with those perspectives on things, it just makes it like everything’s great. As long as I’m out here helping people, you know, I could not have a penny to my name and as long as I’m allowed to help people, I’m cool with it.
Sean: 24:35 – Do you find that people treat you differently because you’re disabled?
Sean: 24:39 – Yeah, for sure.
Sean: 24:41 – Why is that? So first question, why is that?
Kevin: 24:47 – I mean, to be perfectly honest, I think it’s because people don’t know. Outside there’s a fire truck going by, Sean.
Sean: 24:54 – No problem.
Kevin: 24:54 – A lot of is that people don’t understand or people don’t know. Like even for me before my accident, I never thought about, you know, how hard being wheelchair was or you know, the stripes next to the handicap parking are for them to get their chair out or any of these things. And so like, I think it’s just people don’t know. And so—I’ve never met someone who even if they do something wrong, was trying to be a jerk. I think everyone’s trying to be nice and do what they feel like is the nicest and most respectful thing they can think of. And even if they’re wrong, instead of getting angry, I just like to use that as like a teachable moment.
Kevin: 25:36 – Like, hey man, I know you parked in handicap parking. Just so you know, I have friends who can’t go to the grocery store when people park there, so maybe don’t do that next time. Instead of getting all like up in arms and angry about it, I feel like we can help and teach other people and then build it up. And you know, just like people have—a good example is like, people don’t know what CrossFit is or how powerful it is until they get into it. People don’t know what having a disability or a handicap is until they know someone with one or they experience it for themselves. And so I truly don’t believe anyone ever has treated me differently because they’re trying to be mean. I think everyone was treating me differently because they were trying to do what they thought was the most respectful thing they possibly could.
Sean: 26:20 – You recently just got married. Congratulations. How has that changed your life?
Kevin: 26:30 – I get less of my bed now.
Sean: 26:32 – Get used to that, man.
Kevin: 26:34 – Yeah, we have a California King and I get maybe a two-foot-by-four-foot section of it.
Sean: 26:40 – Yeah.
Kevin: 26:41 – And then my wife gets, you know, a third of it and then the dogs get like two thirds of it. But it’s actually, it’s been really great. I really have enjoyed it. Having someone to come home to and chat about stuff with, and I love cooking, but I hate cooking for myself, so it’s allowed me someone to cook for. So I’ve really enjoyed it. It’s been great.
Sean: 27:07 – This is still a new thing for you, but what things do you do that really just annoy the hell out of your wife?
Kevin: 27:18 – Oh man, there’s so many, so many. I think one of the biggest things that annoys her is like, I’ll cook a bunch of stuff. But I’m in like cooking mode, so I don’t clean as I go. I cook everything and then try to clean afterwards. And so there’s a pretty big mess until I get done eating at least, and then go to clean it up and it drives her crazy that I don’t just like clean things up as I go. I think that would, if I had to answer for her, that would probably be her biggest one. Either that or she obviously comes to the gym and she is way smarter than I am and is an athletic trainer and so has her master’s degree in sports medicine. And so sometimes I forget that she’s smarter than I am and so I’ll tell her things and she’s like, yeah, Kevin, I already know those things. That probably annoys here pretty big time, too.
Sean: 28:15 – Looking back now, over the last six years, what are the most valuable lessons that you have learned?
Kevin: 28:24 – Patience is a big one. Patience is a huge one. I’m still not good at this one, but communication, like talking to your friends, talking to your family and letting them in on your life instead of trying to do everything by yourself, which is still very hard for me. And just going back to I think if more people tried to help others instead of always trying to help themselves, they would a be a lot happier and this world will be a lot better.
Sean: 28:53 – You have a very strong sense of what your purpose is now. How does that compare to what your sense of purpose was before your accident?
Kevin: 29:05 – It’s pretty similar. I just didn’t know what direction to take it. I’ve always known that my purpose on this earth was to help other people. Like I’ve always wanted to be a coach or a teacher or like be able to, you know, help other people, period, no matter what it’s ever been. If I could help, I will. I think the injury just kind of focused it a little bit more. But I think it’s always been that. I think that’s what drew me to coaching. I’ve always just wanted to help other people.
Sean: 29:38 – If someone told you that you could have the ability to walk again, but you had to trade all the experiences, all the things you’ve accomplished, your affiliate, the friends you’ve made over the last six years, would you do it?
Kevin: 29:49 – I would not trade a single second of the last six years for the ability to walk again.
Sean: 29:54 – Why is that?
Kevin: 29:54 – What’s a pair of legs? Cool, I can’t reach tall shelves and you know, like standing up was cool and being 6’3 and tall was awesome. But like, the reach I’ve been able to have and the amount of people that I’ve been able to help from a wheelchair and all the cool things I’ve had the opportunity to do and the relationships that I’ve built, like who cares about a set of legs? Like looking back on all of it, I would not trade a single second of it to be able to walk again.
Sean: 30:30 – What do you have going now, in the years to come with your gym and with the Reveille Project and then all the other stuff that you’re involved with?
Kevin: 30:39 – I mean, a lot of the same stuff. Just trying to get the gym to grow and bring more people in who need help. You know, the people who haven’t tied their shoes for 30 years, those are the people we want. The people who think they can’t do CrossFit. We want you to come to the gym. We want you in there. We want you to realize that it’s not just the CrossFit Games. Like we’re here to make you a more functional human being and make your life better. Like, I want every impairment, everyone that thinks that them being a physical human being isn’t possible, I want them to come to us. I want, you know, we’re working with the Reveille Project. We’re trying to grow that and get us into more gyms and get more veterans back to a holistic self through, you know, fitness, community, nutrition and faith. And I think those are the two big things I’m working on as well as, you know, trying not to piss off my wife too much, I think that’s a big one as well.
Sean: 31:30 – Well good luck with that one man.
Kevin: 31:32 – Yeah, I mean I think I’m just gonna keep kind of doing those two things and working with the Adaptive Training Academy, used to be the CrossFit specialty course Adaptive Training, now we have our own entity. We’re still a CrossFit preferred course, great terms with them and same support we’ve always had from them. Now we just get to do our own thing. But the Adaptive Training Academy, man, we’re going across the world and teaching people how to work with adaptive athletes and make it— I think our goal there is to make adaptive athletes and people with disabilities in CrossFit gyms so commonplace that we actually work ourselves out of a job.
Sean: 32:11 – That is a noble goal to have, man. Kevin, listen, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. I know you’re super busy and I look forward to seeing you again soon, my friend.
Kevin: 32:20 – Yeah, me too. I can’t wait to see you in person. Give you a hug. Talk Star Wars.
Sean: 32:23 – Oh yes, we will definitely do that.
Kevin: 32:27 – Build some Legos, talk some Star Wars.
Sean: 32:29 – Absolutely. I’m all for it, man. Well take care and I will talk to you soon.
Kevin: 32:32 – All right, talk to you later, Sean.
Sean: 32:32 – Huge thanks to Kevin Ogar for taking the time to join me, and I definitely forward to talking Star Wars with him. If you want to follow Kevin on social media, you can find him on Instagram. He is @kevinOgar. Thank you for listening everybody. I’m Sean Woodland and this is Two-Brain Radio. If you’re a gym owner and need some help growing your business, Two-Brain mentors can show you the exact steps to add $5,000 in monthly recurring revenue. Book a free call on TwoBrain business.com to find out more. We’ll see you next time, everyone.