Two-Brain Coaching: The Second-Degree Course With Josh Martin

Josh Martin-BLOG

Greg: 00:02 – Hey everyone, it’s Greg Strauch of Two-Brain Media, and on this week’s episode I talked to Josh Martin. Josh Martin is a mentor within Two-Brain but has created an amazing product and service for everyone out there that isn’t just within Two-Brain and that is Two-Brain Coaching. On this week’s episode we talk about methods versus principles. We talk about the different variables a coach is facing and has to manage when they’re coaching either one on one or a group class and different styles of it. We also talk about what is available right now for any gym owner or any coach out there that wants to jump into this training for Two-Brain Coaching. And we talk about the benefits. We need to talk about the benefits not only of the gym owner, the coach, but really what can be protected by going through this certification. Subscribe Two-Brain Radio to hear the very best ideas, tips and topics to move you and your business closer to wealth. Two-Brain Radio is brought to you by Two-Brain Business. We make gyms profitable. We’re going to bring you the very best tips, tactics interviews in the business world each week. To find out how we can help you create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at

Chris: 01:13 – What makes a good gym website? The answer to that question keeps changing. Five years ago I would’ve said that you need this rotating banner image. Three years ago I would’ve said you have to have one splash page highlighting the benefits of your service. That’s true. The problem is that the benefits of your service change by the client you’re trying to target and so you need to be able to adapt. You need to be able to add your own landing pages. Your main cover page should reflect what your most important clients want. That’s going to be different from what my most important clients want. So a website that’s based on a template with the same kind of rotating image is not going to work anymore. I use For Time Design for the and Catalyst gym websites because those are the most important websites I own. I want responsive design that’s going to work well on mobile. About 60% of your clients are going to come through mobile and more in the future. I want a responsive designer, which means I can contact them to make changes and I want to know how to change my own oil. I want to know how to get in there and add my own posts. I talk a lot about content marketing and that means I have to know the medium through which I’m delivering my content. Using For Time Design has been my choice now for about three years because Theresa and her team are super responsive. She can answer questions for me, she can show me how to do it myself if I want to or she can do it for me if I don’t have time. She’s created a big series of videos for Two-Brain clients in our Incubator and Growth stages to watch so that they can do stuff like build landing pages themselves. A lot of website companies try to pull the curtain in front of their knowledge. They try to hold a lot of stuff secret so that they can charge you to do the basic things. Just like in car maintenance, changing your oil, rotating your tires. If you want to do that stuff, awesome. If you don’t have time to do that stuff, take it to the garage. Theresa at For Time Design gives you both options and she’ll even teach you how to do it yourself if you want to. I use that’s what’s made them an official Two-Brain partner is our firm belief in their commitment to helping first and a strong sense of service value.

Greg: 03:27 – All right, I’m on another amazing episode of Two-Brain Radio with Josh Martin. He is an amazing mentor. On top of that, he’s created a very, I mean amazing program but really unique program that I think a lot of gym owners can benefit from. And you guys have heard about this before of the Two-Brain Coaching. So I love having him back on here because he’s got more and more stuff for you guys. So Josh, welcome.

Josh: 03:51 – Thanks Greg. It is a pleasure to be here as always. I’m glad that you invited me back.

Greg: 03:57 – Happy to. So let’s kinda dig into this and before we jump into, hey, here’s the new services that that Two-Brain Coaching offers and the other stuff within Two-Brain Coaching, let’s kind of dive into a few different things and when it comes to our principles and methods of how we go about coaching. It seems like a lot of us are very heavy on the methods compared to like principles of coaching. So more of like, how do we do things. And can we dive into that a little bit? What’s the reasons why we dive so much more into the method compared to the principles of coaching?

Josh: 04:43 – Well, I’m so glad that you want to start with this, man. It’s a topic that really formed the foundation for, you know, building Two-Brain Coaching. And you know, there is a stark difference between methods and principles. And I’ll quickly, you know, give you my definition between these two. So, methods are something that—how you do something with a client. So I’ll give you an example. Most of the people that are probably listening to this are CrossFit gym owners. CrossFit is a methodology. Some of you guys within your CrossFit gym, maybe you follow something like the Conjugate Method, that is also a methodology. Similarly, kettlebell training, Olympic weightlifting, gymnastics training, sprinting. All of these things are methods. So that is how you train a client. And I think that the reason that methods are so popular and people gravitate to them so much so is that you can put a label and a brand and kind of a culture around a method.

Josh: 05:53 – But a principle is something that is always going to stand the test of time. And this is why within Two-Brain Coaching, we kind of say that we are method agnostic. So the goal is not to teach you that this is the one way that you can get your clients to their goals. Really the goal is to teach principles that allow you, the coach, to effectively apply any method and methodology of your choosing to help your clients achieve their goals. You know, so I’ll give you a for instance. Some universal principles that I think that we can all agree on with regards to coaching is that clients should be assessed before any training takes place. Nutrition is going to be a vital component to getting somebody the results that they desire, and recovery. That’s something that is an often overlooked aspect of, you know, getting somebody to their healthiest or fittest state. Does that kind of lay the groundwork for what we mean when we talk about principles versus methods?

Greg: 06:57 – I think so. And I think, I mean, those are three very big truths within the fitness or exercise realm or just performance-based. All of those things are definitely things that need to be accomplished. I completely understand the difference between those methods and principles, and working with a methodology compared to working on the principles. What would you say the principles of Two-Brain Coaching are that you work with clients through?

Josh: 07:26 – Yeah, so there’s five of them and we really go break them down into extreme detail on the website. But I’ll just give you the CliffsNotes version right now. So principle number one is we want you to enjoy the process. So we believe that, you know, if you’re a coach or really anything that you’re doing in life, you deserve to enjoy what you do. But in this case we’re talking about coaching fitness. So principle number one is that you need to enjoy the process. And the way that we kind of take people through getting to that enjoyment of the process is by focusing on three things: focus, effort and time. And I won’t define those further, but that’s part of principle number one. Number two is where we get into, like I mentioned earlier, you know, a universal principle that we can all agree on is assessing a client.

Josh: 08:19 – But principle number two within Two-Brain Coaching just goes a little bit further. And so we’re going to say that it is you should learn, design, deliver and refine. So you should learn about your clients. So learn is listen, empathize, ask questions, reflect, and then give them next steps. Design is where you’re actually, you know, writing out a training plan for them after you’ve established some baseline metrics. Delivery of your actual service is it can be done in person or digitally. If we’re doing it in person, are you going to do it one on one or in a group? And then finally refined is, you know, if you’re a member of the Two-Brain family, you would kind of recognize this as, you know, goal-setting sessions or athlete check-ins. You know, every 90 days or some gyms, maybe they do it every 60 days.

Josh: 09:10 – So principle two is learn, design, deliver and refine. Number three is we want you to sleep, eat, move and manage. And what we mean by manage is your stress. So within each of those, we want you to do them often and we want you to do them well. So we want you to sleep often and sleep well, move often and move well. So on and so forth. Principle number four is empower through education. So in Two-Brain Coaching, we’re actually gonna do this in two distinct ways. We’re going to deliver depth and breadth. So we might do a deep dive into a topic, and then we’re also going to teach you a lot of different topics. So we’re going to expand the breadth of your knowledge. So number four is in power through education. And then number five, this is without a doubt my favorite principle as a matter of fact, we just had some shirts printed up with this on it. And that is that everything is everything. And so this one is something I remember kind of putting the pieces together on several years ago. When you’ve been coaching long enough, you really begin to understand that variables of a client’s life that really don’t seem to have any relation to one another, not only do they relate very closely to what the client is going to achieve or not achieve, but they really kind of help inform you on the decisions that you make as a coach because you realize that everything is interconnected. So everything is everything is is where you truly start to see the interconnectedness of everything under the umbrella of coaching a client. So it’s not about movement, it’s not about nutrition or psychology, handshakes and high fives. It’s not even about having fun and achieving goals. It’s about all of that stuff all the time. So that fifth and final principle of ours at Two-Brain Coaching is everything is everything.

Greg: 11:26 – I love it. I feel like those five principles, I mean you’re teaching people more than just becoming a coach. You are teaching them more of principles that are life principles really, that throughout this process—now of course you take it, it sounds like and put it into a micro standpoint of coaching. But from a macro standpoint, all of these things are definitely lessons or principles that people can follow outside of just coaching.

Josh: 11:54 – Exactly. You know, I think that’s a great point to make, Greg, is that yes, we are applying it in the coaching sense. So like in our course when you actually get into it, yeah, we do talk about anatomy and physiology and the psychology of physical activity and group interactions in the fitness space. But universally, if you were to zoom out even further, you know, this is something that, you know, everybody can utilize in whatever avenue of life that they’re in.

Greg: 12:24 – Now, as a coach, we are managing, I mean many different variables, right? If somebody comes in late, if we’re going through the class structure and maybe we had a morning class that said, hey, we went over and it wasn’t structured as much as it should be. But really there’s two variables that we need to seem to manage as a coach overall. What are those two variables?

Josh: 12:53 – So there are so many moving parts when it comes to running a really, really good session, delivering the best hour of the day to your clients. But it boils down to two different things. Number one, you’re managing the lesson. So what is the actual work that is inside the session that you are taking your client or clients through? And then the second variable is that audience, you know, and for each of those there’s two options. On the lesson front, you can either have a fixed lesson. So a great example of this is your on-ramp curriculum or your foundations or fundamentals. So a lot of CrossFit gyms instead of, you know, throwing people into the group training and saying, hey, hope you know how to swim, you know, we’ll take them through an on-ramp process. So we’re going to meet them where they are and teach them the things that they need to know to feel comfortable and competent when they do get into the group.

Josh: 13:52 – So this is a session template or a lesson plan that is really not going to change from one client to the next. And so this is what we would call a fixed lesson. A variable lesson would be that you, the coach, are writing a whole training session that is client dependent. So you’re writing it specifically for them or specifically for a particular audience. So you can have a fixed lesson plan or a variable lesson plan, and then the audience is going to be that second variable that you have to manage. So as a beginning coach, I don’t want you to have to worry about 12 different people. I want you to be really good at achieving results for one client. So you can have a fixed audience of one or if you offer group fitness classes, you know, I know we’re using CrossFit, but it could be any, it could be Zumba, it could be pilates, some sort of boot camp or HIIT class, but your audience can be that fixed audience of one or a fixed audience of what I like to say in the course is more than one. So as soon as you have two people, it becomes a completely different ball game than just focusing on one, because now your attention is spread. I would say probably in most CrossFit gyms, you know, you’re going to have anywhere from eight to 12 people. I actually took a poll of a couple of hundred gym owners earlier this year to ask them what their average group class size is. And the vast majority of people said about 10 to 12 people was their average class size.

Greg: 15:31 – Well, and it’s funny that you bring this up because I mean, on this podcast, I’m always trying to be fully transparent. I’m always trying to say exactly what’s going on and never give anybody kind of BS or say, hey, I do this when I really don’t or anything. I would never do that. I wanna make sure that people understand that. But with the way you’re bringing it to my attention, like I’m even currently, we are training coaches to be coaches, but we’re doing it completely backwards. And it sounds like the way what you’re saying is kind of like the scalability, or really like how CrossFit brings up we gotta have consistency. So the first movement has to look like the hundredth movement before we can start adding intensity to it.

Josh: 16:14 – Absolutely.

Greg: 16:15 – And that’s what it kinda sounds like to me of what you’re saying, which like for me, we train coaches to start group coaching and coaching group classes and I can see how that could be completely wrong, even. I would even go as far as that, because with what you’re saying here, it’s, hey, why don’t we take on one person, a very fixed lesson plan, so for me that would probably be my on-ramp and it’s only one person. And then from there, slowly building up and building up, like you say, to kind of build up over time and get that coach more aware because if I turn around and throw somebody into a 12-person class, really am I even doing a service that is what we at CFUE say is amazing and above that even to 12 people, if it’s a brand new coach that hasn’t even worked with one person and doing a great job with the experience for that one person?

Josh: 17:12 – Yeah, man, you’re exactly right. And, you know, this is definitely not the way that we always trained our coaches, you know, back in the day either. I can remember the first time that I at my particular gym had to bring somebody on to start taking over some of the coaching that I was doing as we were growing. It was a necessity and, you know, yeah, we just kind of, for lack of a better term, threw people in, you know, to the fire, so to speak. And you quickly figure out that that doesn’t work. And then you say, OK, first we’re gonna, you know, have you shadow and you’re gonna shadow some arbitrary amount of hours before I feel like that you are completely competent as a coach and at my level. And then we’re gonna, you know, throw you back to all the wolves.

Josh: 17:59 – And you know, of course over the years it’s been refined, but I’m a firm believer that you are really setting your coach up either to not optimize their development or really just kind of stunt their development as a coach. The goal, just like you have for a client whenever they first join your gym, is the same as you should have for a new coach that is going to be joining your staff. The goal is to build confidence over time. And the only way that you do that is by layering on complexity over time. So you don’t want to throw them into you know, a situation where they’re not only dealing with a variable lesson and a variable audience, you want to start with the simplest approach possible. Teach them this one thing to this one person. They build confidence, they feel competent, they know that what they’re doing is right because they can see that one client in front of them getting results and getting better.

Josh: 18:59 – If you just throw them to the wolves and say, OK, well they’ve shadowed, now we’re going to put you in front, you know, on basically what I like to call the stage, as you’re coaching in front of a group, you’re on the stage, 10 or 12 people, you’re, I mean, you’re really putting basically the fate of those 10 or 12 people on that one coach. And I just no longer think that that is the right approach anymore because I’ve seen it so many times, and this is a much better way, and you know, from a left-brain logical standpoint, it just makes sense, man.

Greg: 19:38 – Josh, I am gonna let you know, I have to basically—all the time I’ve invested into my advanced theory course and my internship process is now going to basically be thrown out the window and rewrite all of it because, and all the time and effort and money that’s gone into it because, for me, I believe in this 100%. It makes complete sense. Especially, I mean, if you’re a CrossFit gym owner, you totally understand. Making sure that first squat is correct and then making sure can they do it again even without increasing that intensity yet. Or I mean complex, being more complex and having more variability in it. So, uh, thank you. Not thank you, but thank you; I’m going to have to go back and redo all of this.

Josh: 20:24 – Or you could just sign up for Two-Brain Coaching, man.

Greg: 20:28 – Exactly. Which actually right after this break we’re going to get back with Josh and we’re going to talk about what are the current available things that we can do at Two-Brain Coaching to level up your staff or someone new coming on. So we’ll be back with Josh right after this.

Chris: 20:42 – Hey guys, it’s Chris Cooper. If you’ve ever run out of money, you know that it affects every single corner of your life, all of your relationships, your business, even your self-worth. And so when I found a mentor in 2009, I said, I want to share this gift with everyone. Since then, I’ve been building and refining and improving a mentorship practice that we now call Two-Brain Business. We break our mentorship into several stages. The first stage is the Incubator, which is a 12-week sprint to get your foundation built, to get you started on retention and employee programs and finding the best staff, putting them in the best roles, training them up to be successful, and then recruiting more clients. It’s an amazing program. It is the culmination of over a decade of work. It’s also the sum of best practices from over 800 gyms around the world. These aren’t just my ideas anymore. What we do is track with data what’s working for whom and when, and we test new ideas against that data to say, is this actually better? Then when ideas have proven themselves conclusively, then we put it in our Incubator or Growth or Tinker programs. I just wrote “Founder, Farmer, Tinker, Thief” to define who should be doing what in what stage of entrepreneurship. But no matter where you are, the Incubator is your first 12-week sprint to get as far as possible in your business. We’re a mentorship practice for one reason: Mentorship is what works. We work with gym owners for one reason: Because you have the potential to change the world with us, and I hope you do.

Greg: 22:11 – All right, we are back. So Josh, let’s talk about this. What are the things that are available right now, and we’ve had you on before, we’ve talked about that First Degree of someone coming in and we can talk about that real quick, but then also moving forward, what are those other things?

Josh: 22:30 – Yeah, so we’ve actually got a couple of options right now and I hope I have permission to let the cat out of the bag on this. If not, then maybe I’ll get in trouble, but I doubt it. But so essentially if you’re a current Two-Brain client in the Growth stage right now, you are actually going to be gifted a brand-new master class for training coaches. This is something that I’m putting together for all of our Two-Brain clients. And it would best be described as here’s how you do it, now go and do it for your coaches option. So we’re gonna provide you with the blueprint. We’re going to say this is how you find, hire and train your staff. This is how to build meaningful careers for them. We’re gonna give you the templates, all this kind of stuff. And then basically you are responsible for putting these things into practice. So we’re going to teach you how to do it and then you’re going to do it. So that’s option number one. That’s going to be out very, very soon for current Growth clients. They’re going to have free access to that. So that’s pretty awesome.

Greg: 23:36 – It’s pretty awesome. Now, but what happens if you’re like me, I don’t have time to do that. I don’t have time to turn around and build everything out, possibly. And I really need something that’s more of a done-for-me version, so I can really maximize my EHR, my effective hourly rate.

Josh: 23:56 – Yeah. Greg, it’s funny because that’s exactly, you know, the itch that I had to scratch for myself is that I wanted something that I could implement, put into place and have a done-for-you option. And so that’s actually what is available through right now. It’s a piece of cake. You go to the website, check it out, sign them up, and they are guided from the moment that they sign up until the point that it is time for them to basically show their stuff off for you and coach for you. And yes, there is shadowing broken down. There is homework. They’re going to be turning things in. They’re going to have assignments. There is a lot of work that they’re going to be doing behind the scenes and in your gym, but you are not going to have to be there to micromanage.

Josh: 24:47 – Now, I do realize that some owners don’t want to be completely hands off. They want to know, hey, what are my coaches learning? I want to make sure that, number one, that it’s valuable. And probably most importantly that it aligns with their vision and what they’re looking for from a coach. So what we put together is an owner’s handbook and that’s available for free for anybody that’s interested to learn more. You know, maybe you’re not quite ready to invest the money, you just want to see what they’re gonna be learning, then reach out. We will be more than happy to send you the owner’s handbook so you can take a look at it and see. But if you are ready to sign up, then yeah, go to, but you can navigate your way there. And right now what’s available is the First-Degree program, which takes somebody and preps them to coach your fixed lesson plan, one-on-one, your on-ramp program, put another way, and the Second-Degree course, which preps them to coach any group fitness offering that you have.

Greg: 25:55 – Wait, hold on. I want to backtrack on that for a second. And really that second point that you just made of any fitness program. So you’re telling me that I can put somebody into my Sweat, which is my boot camp. They can go through that Second Degree and be able to take on any of those group classes, including my CrossFit, including, I mean any literally, I mean, any program that I wanted to bring on, dumbbells and diapers or whatever it is, they’d be able to coach any of those classes?

Josh: 26:25 – Yeah. So the goal again, you know, with the principle approach is that we want you to be able to teach any, you know, fitness methodology, group fitness class that you can think of. So if it’s CrossFit, if it’s Zumba, if it’s diapers and dumbbells, if it’s sweat, if it’s a 30-minute quick fit, a 45, a 60-minute thing, yeah, Second Degree will take care of that. And I don’t want to spoil the really good part, but if you’re a gym that already is insured through Affiliate Guard, your coaches are covered if they go through first or Second Degree, they are already covered insurance wise.

Greg: 27:11 – Whoa, that’s definitely huge because as a gym owner, if I have contractors and I’m having them get their own insurance policies or if I’m saying, hey, I’m going to take the burden and say I’m going to cover anybody that trains here, but I gotta make sure my insurance company says, hey, yeah, you can have so and so train here, they usually have to have a certification. So you’re telling me basically that each one of these programs so far, and I know we’re building out more throughout this process, degree one or one degree, First Degree and Second Degree are technically certified through Affiliate Guard to say, hey, yeah, we will cover what, what you guys are doing.

Josh: 27:52 – Yeah, 100% and you know, this is actually really cool man. Affiliate Guard, I was just talking to them recently and let’s say that you’re a gym that isn’t insured through them. That’s OK. You can actually ensure one of your coaches if they have a Two-Brain Coaching certification for roughly 150 bucks for the entire year. 150 bucks for the year and they are covered insurance wise through Affiliate Guard.

Greg: 28:19 – That’s amazing. I mean, that’s pennies. I wish, I wish my insurance policy was that, but it is not. And I will say it’s definitely not expensive for even a big gym insurance plan, but $150 is nothing.

Josh: 28:36 – Yeah. Yeah. They really put together quite a package for us, so we’re super excited to be partnered with them.

Greg: 28:44 – And I wanted to go back to one other thing you said. And that was really what you were talking about, the different options of having First Degree and Second Degree and really the Second Degree portion. And you talked about how it was going to cover basically any fitness program that you have. And that kind of dives back into that first thing we talked about, methods and principles, and that’s where you’re saying the methodology of CrossFit is great, but if you have the methodology of Zumba or the methodology of a boot camp, whatever that’s gonna be, you’ve built this program not around one of those things. You’ve built it around principles so that literally anyone can come through this program from any type of fitness program and still do amazing with it and still be able to utilize all the information.

Josh: 29:30 – Absolutely. Yeah. That was the goal. Because if we just teach to, you know, one methodology, then you are really limited in scope as a coach. You know, like what happens if you’re a Pilates instructor and that is what you learn how to coach and that’s all you know how to coach and three or four or five years down the road you’re like, ah, I really don’t want to do that anymore. OK, well now I’ve gotta go learn how to coach something else and I’ve got to go take this specific course to be able to coach this other thing. With Two-Brain coaching, the principles are universal. So the same things that you would use to get people fit or to get people to their goals and using a Pilates methodology can also be used to do it with a Zumba or a CrossFit or a kettlebell or Olympic weightlifting methodology. The only thing that I would say is that, you know, you might want to go take a course so that you know the ins and outs of that particular methodology, but from a learning how to actually apply it and work with clients and use it to get results, that’s the service, the coaching service that we provide.

Greg: 30:47 – What—I want to talk about two benefits, and one of those is definitely the benefit from an owner standpoint. So myself. But before that, because I do care about my people more than anything, I really do. I care about my coaches, making sure they’re getting training. I’m trying to build out new things for them all the time and I feel like I can never do enough to make sure that I’m giving them the best opportunities out there. But so from an owner’s standpoint, but really from a coach’s standpoint, what is the coach ROI benefit that they’re getting from these programs?

Josh: 31:20 – Man, that’s such a great question, Greg. You know, we thought about this a lot in the development of Two-Brain Coaching and I haven’t seen it out there from anybody else, but it’s really important that if somebody is going to make an investment in something, you know, like the First Degree program or the Second or you know, not to give too much away, but Third and Fourth that will be out before the end of the year, I want the coach to truly understand that if I pay $149 for the First Degree program, you know, what can I expect to get back? You know, how long is it going to take me to make that money back if the coach is the one who buys that. So for the First Degree program, after talking to hundreds of gym owners now for several years based around what their on-ramp cost is and what a coach makes, if a coach gets to do one on-ramp client, so to take them through the gym’s on-ramp process, on average if they just take one person through it, they have now paid back the money that it costs them to go through the First Degree course.

Josh: 32:32 – Then everything that they do after that is just icing on the cake. So one client you take through on-ramp and it’s paid for itself. The Second Degree course, let’s just say that you’re working at a gym and you’re coaching their group classes and you’re paid roughly 20 bucks a class. If you’re coaching five sessions a week, you’re going to have that paid off in about six weeks. So Second Degree course is 599. You’re getting paid 20 bucks a class to coach groups. Guess what? You’re going to have that thing paid off in about six weeks or roughly 30 sessions. Here’s the bonus part that I haven’t told anybody about. We are actually teaching you how to develop and run your own specialty program within the Second Degree course and we’re going to give them—at kind of a surprise point in the course they’re going to unlock access to five specialty course templates that they can use and implement at their gym right away. But if they just coach one specialty program, they’re going to have it paid off in six sessions. So that’s a huge ROI for a coach because I know for myself, when I was starting out, I wanted to know, hey, if I’m investing this much into education, continuing education, you know, what does that look like from a money back in my pocket standpoint? And so that’s what we can say from the coach’s perspective.

Greg: 34:04 – What about, I mean, that’s a huge benefit from a coach standpoint, but now I’m going to say what about me? What about as the business owner, what is the ROI that I’m getting back from this?

Josh: 34:13 – Yeah, so I think this is actually best explained through a story. We’ve got a gym that has sent one of their new coaching prospects through the First Degree course, and I was talking to this gym owner about a month ago and she said, you know, the funniest thing happened, part of the homework that they do in this First Degree course is they’re learning to how to sit down and talk to somebody, you know, kind of in a consultation-type format or what we would say in Two-Brain is like that No-Sweat Intro, but the homework for them is to practice just having these conversations, you know, learning about these prospective kind of play clients and they’re tasked with doing it with friends and family members. And you know, role playing is always a little bit funny and nerve-wracking. And honestly, Greg, as an owner sometimes I’m like, ah, role playing is kind of, you know, useless and I don’t really get a whole lot out of it personally—until I heard this.

Josh: 35:18 – So I was talking to this owner and she said, you’ll never believe what happened. This coach was doing her practice role playing for consultations or No-Sweat Intros. She was doing it with her roommate who was her best friend and apparently she did such a good job that this roommate signed up to be a member at the gym. So you know, and their on-ramp package at their gym was $299. So right then and there, not only did it pay for itself, you know, but the coach is also going to get paid. So $149 to do First Degree. This coach was just practicing some of the homework, sold somebody on an on-ramp package and paid for itself two times over. So from an ownership standpoint, knowing that things like that are occurring, that’s all the ROI that I need to know about.

Josh: 36:10 – Now for the Second Degree, to me what it comes down to is coaching is all about retention. You know, is the basic that it boils down to. If you get results for your clients, they’re going to stick around. If you are a gym owner and you have a coach that has gone through the Second Degree program, if they just get at an average revenue per member of 150 bucks, so if you’ve got four clients that pay 150 bucks, if four clients stay one month longer than they might not have beforehand, it pays for itself.

Greg: 36:47 – Wow. That, I mean, that right there is worth every single penny. I guess my final question, so probably people out there and we’ll wrap it up here, they’re probably asking, OK, there’s First Degree, there’s Second Degree, possibly Third and Fourth and others later on, do I have to have my coach go through First Degree before they can go to Second Degree?

Josh: 37:11 – Yes. And actually there’s a very couple of very good reasons. Number one is that the language that we use in Second Degrees starts in the First Degree and we want that to be consistent throughout. Number two, we are big, humongous believers in having a beginner’s mind, and even if you’re somebody who has been coaching for several years, it is always a great idea to revisit the basics. So First Degree first, Second Degree next; they build on one another. So remember, we go back to what we were talking about towards the very beginning of the podcast is we want to layer on complexity. I don’t want to jump you right into some of the more deeper topics in the Second Degree, even if you’re somebody like me who’s been coaching for you know, almost two decades now. When I was putting together the First Degree program, I was like, oh man, I haven’t thought about things like this, you know, in so long and I learned so much just from my standpoint of putting the course together. So, it is highly valuable for anybody, whether it’s a new coach that you’re thinking about bringing on or somebody that is a head coach. As a refresher of the basics, if I’m an owner, I want a coach who is not afraid to always revisit the basics and you know, refine them over time.

Greg: 38:40 – Agreed. Now if somebody wants to sign up for Two-Brain Coaching, they’re not in Two-Brain, but they’re a gym owner out there that’s like, you know what, I need to get my hands on this. I need to get my coaches in this. I don’t have the time. I don’t have anything built out that I need to be able to do it, can they join it? And what’s the way for them to contact you to be able to jump onto Two-Brain Coaching?

Josh: 39:06 – Yeah, absolutely. So, they can do a couple of different things, if they, you know, are like, yep, I’m sold. I want to just go ahead and sign up right now, they can go to and then you have the two options for First and Second Degree right there. If they are like, ah, I liked what I heard. I want to hear more from Josh himself. You can go to again and then right there on the homepage in the middle, you can’t miss it, is a spot to book a free call. Just a quick little consult for 15 minutes. You and I will talk face to face and I will answer all the questions that you have about the course happily. Or if you’re like, eh, maybe I just want to get some questions answered via email, and you can reach me at

Greg: 39:57 – Awesome, Josh. Thank you again for jumping on. I love always talking to you and having our conversations and stuff like that. I love what you’re doing with Two-Brain Coaching and I can’t wait to see a Third Degree, Fourth Degree and whatever is created after then even. So I’m super excited and I can’t wait to hear what else is going on. But thank you so much for jumping on Two-Brain Radio and sharing Two-Brain Coaching with us.

Josh: 40:21 – My pleasure, Greg. Thanks again for having me, man.

Greg: 40:25 – Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. Make sure to subscribe to receive the most up-to-date episodes wherever you get your podcasts from. To find out how we can help create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at

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