Two-Brain Marketing Episode 20: David Oquendo

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Mateo: 00:00 – Hey, it’s Mateo of Two-Brain Marketing. On this edition of the Two-Brain Marketing podcast, I’m talking with David from Rapid Fit KC. You’ll learn about his approach to selling high-ticket packages and personal training. You’ll learn about his unique approach to the 90-day front-end offer and you’ll also learn how he spent $500 on ads and generated $6,000 in front-end sales. So you don’t want to miss this. Make sure to subscribe to Two-Brain Radio for more marketing tips and secrets each week.

Greg: 00:36 – Two-Brain Radio is brought to you by Two-Brain Business. We make gyms profitable. We’re going to bring you the very best tips, tactics, interviews in the business world each week. TO find out how we can help you create your Perfect Day, book free call with a mentor at

Chris: 00:56 – Hey guys, it’s Chris Cooper here. If you are headed to the CrossFit Games, I would like to buy you breakfast. So here’s what we’re doing. Together with Healthy Steps Nutrition, we have rented out the banquet facilities at the Sheraton across the road from the CrossFit Games and we’re taking about 250 people a day. You can come in and have breakfast with us. We’ll be talking a little bit about business, but the most important thing that always happens at these breakfasts, aside from the bacon and coffee, is the conversations. We have limited seating that’s gonna fill up, you can fill in the form in our show notes and make sure that you reserve yourself a spot. We’re going to do it at 7:30 a.m. on both Saturday and Sunday of the CrossFit Games. We will see you in Madison.

Mateo: 01:37 – David, how are you?

David: 01:38 – Great, and you?

Mateo: 01:40 – I’m great man. So for those tuning in, tell us a little bit about who you are, where you’re from, and a little bit about your business.

David: 01:47 – From Kansas City. I own Rapid Fit KC, so personal training, group training studio, we aren’t a CrossFit affiliate. So that’s kind of one of the biggest differences between us and I would say most people, but at the same time it’s very, very similar to what we do. Just a little bit less barbells.

Mateo: 02:04 – Awesome. Yeah. Tell me about that. How do you, how do you balance the personal training and the group fitness?

David: 02:10 – So pre-Two-Brain, it was kind of just a mix and just kind of total chaos. I only talked to people about personal training when they came in that request it and I only talked about group to the people that came and requested it. And I mean the biggest thing I would say, we did GymLaunch actually before, so I had somewhat of an idea about the marketing, but it was really built—GymLaunch was built to provide a massive amount of people not necessarily quality, and that wouldn’t help my team be successful. That would just help me be successful. And so when I opened up my gym my whole thing was how to make my team be successful and not just be me and so Two-Brain was talking about doing PT first and I was thinking to myself, we started doing pretty good with it, I start understanding it, and I was like, man. Why am I allowing people to come into this gym without having one-on-one individual coaching? I’m paying for it with Two-Brain’s mentoring and I’m getting great results out of it. So why would I allow other people who should be getting it to come in and not have a good amount of foundation built on it. And that’s kind of what we started doing. So now it’s like, hey, you wanna come in here, PT only and that’s it. And not to take away from the group or anything like that. I just know that if I really get them a good foundation. They’re going to be way better off the long run, which is the whole goal we’re trying, what we’re trying to do anyways, is help people longevity wise, health. So.

Mateo: 03:32 – So tell me a little about that. How long has your gym been open?

David: 03:35 – Three and a half years.

Mateo: 03:37 – And so were you only offering group before or?

David: 03:41 – No, we did the hybrid model when we first came in, it just wasn’t the focus.

Mateo: 03:46 – I see. So you were basically — you weren’t telling people what to do or you weren’t prescribing a solution. It’s just someone came in, I’m interested in personal training, great, I’m going to sell you that. Or it’s like, oh, I’m interested in group. Great. I’m going to sell you that. And then with the GymLaunch method, it was just a buttload of people. I mean, and you kind of have to filter through all that yourself and, OK. All right. So then what motivated you then to seek out mentorship with Two-Brain or a different, you know, kind of a different perspective?

David: 04:18 – Oh, actually David Pope, CrossFit Northland, he used to train here before he got the opportunity to buy out CrossFit Northland from the previous owners and he kind of showed me the book. So I had read the book and then he told me that he had started with them and that he did enjoy it. I just kinda got to a point where I was like, we’re doing really well. Or we’re doing decent I should say. And then I, it was all my fault, we lost like 16 grand because I wasn’t paying attention to systems and stuff like that. Like October I go, holy crap, there’s $16,000 missing. I was like, OK, I have to do something about this. This is not going to feel good for us. Owning a business is not just for you, you are supporting everybody else underneath yourself. You close down, all those people feel it. It’s not just you. And so I was like, crap, I need to do something about this. And then that’s why I joined Two-Brain.

Mateo: 05:12 – And then was that kind of one of the first things you work on in the Incubator’s like the mission and values, you know, for your businesses. And so was that something that you kind of discovered or you worked to in doing the Incubator or is this something where you’re like, that was originally why you opened the gym and you lost sight of that and then you were kind of coming back to?

David: 05:32 – You know, actually we had a client that dealt with that, that kind of walked me through that a little bit. So I kind of had an idea what I wanted. It’s changed and morphed. The more I got into Two-Brain, the more I understand and it meant a little bit different than when we very very first started. So the mission it helped clarify—I already had a little bit of it, helped clarify it and then it helped me I would say reach deeper into it after a while and say, OK, this is really what we do.

Mateo: 05:59 – And what is it that you do?

David: 06:01 – So my thing was one, and this kind of goes back to my story is when I first started working out, it was to gain confidence. Doesn’t matter about health, and in general, health is super important, but sometimes it’s not the first thing you do to get going. And so confidence not only gives you the ability in a sense I would say walk into room with your head held high, but you live life and do other things you may not do. So people who tend to hide away the more or less confident they are, or they don’t do certain things, they don’t have the confidence to do it. And so my idea was like, well, I love the fact that I can help someone that walks in the room, their head down, not looking anybody in the eye, and then four to six months later walk in, held high, and they’re going and telling me about how they’re about to do this triathlon. And they were so scared to do it, you know, six years ago they wanted to do it or three years ago they wanted to do it and they just couldn’t do it. Now they’re finally doing it. So our goal is help people live happy, healthy—live healthy, happy, and more confident lives.

Mateo: 06:59 – That’s awesome man. That’s great. And so awesome. So. OK, so you had a friend who was kind of knew about Two-Brian, was showing you the books, you read the books, you sign up for mentorship. What else did you see as a big change for you in your business as you’re working through this? I know we were talking about, before we hopped on this call, it sounds like the way yo
u were offering your services was something that you had to change. Tell me about that.

David: 07:30 – Yeah, so I mean that was the prescriptive model was just something that, you know, that he definitely instilled and said, hey look, you should be doing this. And after a while and it’s like right. I mean I’m paying Two-Brain to help me and guide me and exactly the reason why I got him. And so knowing that most people needed some attention up front to really be successful and that’s probably the biggest thing that’s changed. And then putting in like what systems and processes, like what people are supposed to do. We’re mainly PT so it’s not as big of a difference, like the way that we run things, they’re kind of, I mean everybody, luckily I work with are phenomenal. So their goal is to do the best they can. So it really hasn’t been that big of an issue in a sense, switching things around and obviously the structure is probably the biggest thing that we needed when we walked into Two-Brain.

Mateo: 08:24 – So what was that process like of having to streamline your offer and kind of focusing on offering these two things. How did you make them come together and then how did you get your staff on board?

David: 08:38 – I would say just kind of like we knew that that’s what everybody here started off as. We all were personal trainers, so we thought we knew the value of it. So it wasn’t like it was group training—we knew the value of it. The biggest thing was just, you know, I just changed how I talk to people. Hey, you obviously have some habits we need to break, and short term isn’t gonna create anything for you. So we need to build habits for [inaudible] like recent 90 challenge. And what we focused on was we said hey look, three months, it’s what it takes to really build anything into it. The first month you’re getting into it, the second month you’re starting to get the ball rolling and your third month, you’re like really get moving and that’s when you see those changes. So we start talking long-term. OK, you’re gonna do it long-term-wise. So you’re just shooting for a quick fix, go and do a 21-day fix off the Internet, but you’re not going to keep it. You know that, I know that. So what we do here is we offer something to help you get over that hunch of the first 21 days or when it gets really hard and you’re kind of trying to change things and, and you need that support and then we help you push through that. So that by the end of the 90 days, you’ve built these habits that stick with you rather than fall off after two or three weeks.

Mateo: 09:49 – Right. So you kind of answered my next question, which is great. What is it that you sell and how do you sell it; tell me about the front-end offer that you guys have now after the mentorship.

David: 09:58 – It really is like it’s the main focus is PT is to say, look, we know that we have to have personal training. We know that people are most successful personal training for at least three months. That’s just how we’ve done it. I’ve been doing it for 12 years and I know for a fact this is [unintelligible] successful and it just kind of goes to the No- Sweat Intro idea and we present it, I’m like this is what we have. And I show them—it’s changed because we begin to use HSN. So now I just talk all about how you don’t have nutrition with the fitness, it’s not going to matter, like you’re not going to see the results you want. So what we do is we teamed up with a dietician. We have now a nutrition coach that’s separate from the fitness coach, that way the fitness coach focuses just on the training and the nutrition coach focuses nutrition and it gives you a point of contact with somebody who knows everything about nutrition wise, so any questions and we dial it in to and we customize everything to exactly your goal. The sales have been probably the same each month, they haven’t really changed. My close rate is probably lower than a lot of peoples’ because you know we’re asking for 460 bucks a month, three months, to everybody. But at least the people that are doing it, the return rate is pretty good. Their retention rates are pretty high and they’re getting better results than just being shoved in a class.

Mateo: 11:14 – So I just want to clarify that for everyone listening. So will you do is you do a 90-day program as your front-end offer, and it’s personal training for all those 90 days. Do you have any tiers in terms of the amount of personal training?

David: 11:31 – So we have three times a week and twice a week is our main focus on those. We have 30 minutes, 45 minutes. I’m like, I just tell everybody, the biggest thing is even if they get 30 minutes, it may not be a lot of time, but it’s much easier to upsell somebody on just the next 120 bucks than it is to upsell them on 460. So basically before, they go for it, cool. After a month you can probably talk them into upgrading because they only have to spend another 120 bucks to get there. So we have two times a week, three times a week. We have one. I wouldn’t show anybody it unless it was like that last little bit where they were just thinking about it and they just kept pushing for money [inaudible] one time a week.

Mateo: 12:17 – Awesome. OK, great. So your front-end offer is 90 days. It’s all PT. They have to do it. But you did mention, I think before we hopped on, people can add on group classes, correct? Later on.

David: 12:28 – Yes. Yes. So after the first month, like when we sit down and dealt with them one full month, I just feel more confident for them coming into classes and being able to do the things you’re supposed to do. And so that’s kind of what I was thinking about. I always preach foundations, like look, if you can give a house great foundation, you’re golden. You buy a house, crappy foundation, no matter how fancy it looks, issues will come and then you’re going to pay for it again. So let’s make sure that we’re not throwing someone into doing something and have ‘em getting hurt or you know, I don’t want to say scaling is really bad or regression wise, but it is kind of, you walk in everybody’s doing something and the coach comes up to you and says no you can’t do this. You have to do this, kind of separates you from the class a little bit. So my concern is kind of like, hey look, we get them right. They walk in there, it’s more smooth. They don’t have to change as many things and won’t feel like they’re the newbie and stuff like that. They’re just like hey cool, I’m part of it, I can do what they’re doing. I have a little more confidence doing it.

Mateo: 13:28 – I liked what you said about the foundation there because it’s going to hurt you in the long run. One, the person, the client, right. If they don’t have a good foundation they’re at a greater risk of getting physically hurt themselves. But two, it’s going to hurt you as the business owner in the long run too. Because even if they leave, you know, just like, yeah, it just wasn’t for me. Like even if it’s not like some nasty review outcome, that’s still more time, energy and effort you have to go through to replace that person. You know what I mean? So like it’s all that energy and time and money is, is still gonna be detrimental to lose your focus. So it’s bad for both parties involved. So I think what you said is awesome. I love that it’s 90 days and it’s one on one. My partner Ashley, we do a lot of one on ones as well and our groups. If we do have groups, they’re small, like they’re capped at eight people. So, I think that’s, yeah, I think you’re totally right on that. So as how is your space laid out where you can fulfill both those services at the same time?

David: 14:35 – We’re very crunched, it’s not ideal, that’s why we’re going to a bigger spot. The truth is we have people training, we’re good, as soon as a third person doing one on one comes in, if there’s class going on, we’re cramped. And so that’s kind of been a limiting factor in the next growth phase. And my biggest thing was, well what can we do to add on? We had a nutrition business, but I want to add on small group, like c
apping it at three or four and like solidifying that in the new space. We’ll have a section for PT that’ll be good and open, a section for small group and a section for large group. [unintelligible]

Mateo: 15:20 – You’re making it work, you’re making it work and it sounds like, yeah, you haven’t had any now. And I think that’s, I mean you’re also doing it the right way right. It’s better to be in this situation where you’ve grown and now you’re going to look for more space versus starting with a big-ass space that you are desperate to fill. So that’s awesome. We were talking a little bit about this before in terms of your paid advertising system. It sounds like you don’t have your finger on the pulse as much in terms of lead nurture, in terms of tracking some of these numbers, which you know, for those listening, do as I say. The reason I bring this up is because you know, you’ve still got a positive ROI, you still are making money, you still are able to take advantage. And I think the lesson here and what I wanted to note on is I think it’s because your package sizes are larger than average. Right? Are you the most expensive place in town?

David: 16:24 – No, definitely not the most expensive. I would say we force people to do the most expensive things compared to other people. That’s probably how I would look at it as.

Mateo: 16:31 – Nice. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And I think that goes that, you know, you’re able to make it up right because your package sizes are larger and what you offer is a much more one-on-one high-touch experience. So with people they’re probably going to stay longer. I mean your retention numbers are probably higher than average and it’s because it’s one-on-one. It’s because it’s high touch and it’s because, yeah, the barrier to entry is probably higher. So your sales are probably going to suffer, but it’s worth it in the long run because people are going to spend more and they’re going to stay longer.

David: 17:09 – Yeah. That’s the biggest thing we found out. I mean it’s hard. I said, I always say it’s hard. I mean I was thinking about it the other day as like, well am I hurting myself by doing this? But if my goal is to, you know, have a staff that has the ability to generate a good career income. Cause one of my biggest ideas was how do we have, I would say maybe two thirds of their income be from PR and the rest be from other stuff so that when they have like the downturns and you know, like July or June was a big downturn for us. Or let’s say November when people start going on vacation or going as a family, how do we keep their income from dropping below a certain level so that they’re good all the time and when it’s great it it’s great, but when it’s an issue it’s still good. And so my idea is focus on PT and more higher income or more higher priced tickets, we can afford to have them do other things and pay them well in that sense, so that they’re having these good months even though like they are technically bad much for the gym.

Mateo: 18:18 – Oh, OK. Yeah, I see that. And then because they’re fulfilling these higher ticket packages you’re able to sell, sounds like you’re able to supplement them with—

David: 18:29 – That’s the idea, is we can do other things for the gym. The CSM role was a big one that we’re implementing. Actually having a GM that gets [unintelligible] of the percent of the profit, so people are actually wanting to do good and not just like, OK I’m going to beat you. It’s like, hey, make them [unintelligible] really gives back everybody as much as possible.

Mateo: 18:52 T- hat’s awesome man. Tell me a little bit more about when someone actually sits down in front of you, you know, what is your sales process, cause selling high ticket packages, you know, people want to do that. People want to learn more or want to be more confident in asking for them to spend $500 a month on personal training. So what is your process?

David: 19:13 – It’s exactly the same thing except for I don’t ask if you’re comfortable with PT or group. I’ve been trying to figure out some things to ask that may help people get more emotional with it after we’ve put them through the InBody testing. Are you happy with these results? Like, is this something that you’re happy with? And we usually get taught to say yes, I think you mentioned this. But a no can be a powerful like thing when they’re talking about that. So I’m not that great at it, truthfully. I don’t feel like I’m super good at it, but I just think it’s like, hey, get told no a thousand times, get used to it. You’d be more confident to ask no matter what. So I been told more often no than anybody else. But it doesn’t matter. It’s like, hey look, I know what’s going to be right for the person. If they’re not ready to do it, they’re in the UpLaunch lead nurture back on that. [unintelligible]

Mateo: 20:08 – No, I think that’s great advice. You know, it’s building up that resilience like, yeah, you’re going to hear the word no when you ask for them to finally, you know, take the plunge and yeah, you’re probably going to hear the word no more often than you hear the word yes. Especially as you’re trying to grow. But as long as you’re able to have the confidence and push through and know that you know, you’re confident in what you’re offering, in the service, I think that’s definitely really key for sure. So what do you think is—you have any advice for someone who’s trying to switch to a more, who’s been in group doing the group model, who is trying to incorporate more personal training, you have any advice for someone who’s trying to get started with that?

David: 20:54 – You know, I think you have to really, truly believe in it. I tell people all the time, paying for Two-Brain kind of makes me do things. And so paying for some one-on-one individual attention, I tend to do better with it. You can’t get that accountability from anybody unless you’re paying for it, because they have a really vested interest in it. So you have to really, really believe it when you tell them, because that’s the hardest part. It’s like, hey look, I know this is good for you. I know you’re not gonna like this price. If you don’t do it this way, you know you’re going to have issues. So if you’re fully invested in it when you’re saying it, you’re more likely to come off more confident. And truthfully, like our CSM, she killed it. She just started doing this and she’s killed it but it’s because she hasn’t, she didn’t have the bias that I would’ve had of going through on the lower income stuff and just killing that and then trying to jump to a bigger income. I guess is what we do is what we sell, so it’s the confidence is way better. And then even for me [unintelligible] and that changes your reflection on how you say it. You get nervous a little bit, you start to stumble but if you’re super confident, they receive it a lot better.

Mateo: 22:13 – I think that’s super important. Like for anyone trying to get better at sales, it’s regardless if it’s high ticket or not. Conviction is key. I mean, kind of been a theme of this conversation. You got into fitness to build your confidence. You try to teach that to other people coming to your gym. And I’m sure that sounds like your staff too. It’s a very much a part of the culture to have that confidence, to have that conviction and when you have that, yeah, it’s gonna, that plays a big role in getting that person to know, like, and trust you and then eventually purchasing that service from you. So you know, it sounds like you’ve gone through a lot in just the three and a half years you’ve been open. It’s been quite the journey, but you’re growing, you’re moving to another bigger space. July, which is normally a really a tough month, it sounds like you’re hitting, you’re on target to hit your sales goals. So what do you think’s been the key to success so far?

David: 23:08 – My team, I would say. Having the confidence in the people that we work with. They 100% believe in what we’re doing. So having them on board, I think that’s like number one key, you know like if you
have confidence in them, and they have confidence in you and you know for sure that whatever you’re doing, you’re selling, you’re selling the right thing. And then again getting that structure down like what do we do when this happens? What and why they’re doing it really helps out.

Mateo: 23:44 – I guess before we sign off here, tell me a little bit more about that. It sounds like you’ve got a great team behind you. Sounds like you’re putting them first and have them in mind when you’re making certain decisions, you’re passionate about making sure they’re able to grow. What is your process for meeting with your team and checking in with them and getting everyone on the same page?

David: 24:06 – We just started doing more of like team meetings again, did it for a while. We did a couple of times but we weren’t really structured with it. I just started going back into being more [unintelligible] with them. I think the truth is just us being on the same page, we all know what we want to do and we all are sitting behind like the values, which is huge. What do we want to do for clients? Like why are we doing this? Are we’re doing it right? And so I really haven’t had an issue with that I really haven’t been [unintelligible] at all. Again, I think I’ve lucked out sometimes, but I think it’s just because we’re all on the same page. It’s almost, it can be way better. It will be way better. It’s just that right now I lucked out with just finding people on the same page as me and it’s been easy to push forward because they want to push forward the same way.

Mateo: 24:56 – The right people. Getting the right seats on the bus or getting the right people on the seats on the bus, I think. So if people want to learn more about your front-end offer, how you structure your 90 day, how you’ve added some of these new features, like, you know, nutrition coaching, they just want to learn how to sell PT. Where can they find you?

David: 25:19 – So like my email is I mean really that’s probably the best way to do it besides Facebook. There’ll be pretty soon—I mean the truthful like is all the stuff I’m saying is just so simple. It’s just doing stuff. I mean, that’s really what it is. It’s really just simple. It’s just taking what you know should happen and like creating an ad saying, hey, we’re just gonna do it and then follow through with it no matter what, no matter how you feel and how crappy it is at the beginning. Like just go 100 percent into it and not allow yourself to backstep.

Mateo: 25:57 – Awesome man. Thanks for hopping on, man. It was awesome.

David: 26:02 – Appreciate it, man.

Greg: 26:04 – Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. Make sure to subscribe to receive the most up-to-date episodes, wherever you get your podcasts from. To find out how we can help create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor

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