TwoBrain Marketing Episode 10: Cody Ringle

TwoBrain Marketing Episode 10: Cody Ringle

Today we are joined by Cody of CrossFit ColdWater and CrossFit Angola. We hear about his first experiences with CrossFit and how he turned $250 dollars in ad spend into $5,500 worth of revenue. Cody was first introduced to CrossFit by his older brother in 2014. At the time, Cody was overweight and out of shape and he almost didn’t come back. When he did come back, it took only a couple of classes and he was hooked. Today Cody owns two CrossFit gyms and is committed to improving the quality of people’s lives through strength and conditioning. 

Cody purchased CrossFit Coldwater in 2015. Two years later, he was broke and so stressed that he developed Bell’s palsy. He tried mentorship with a different group, but didn’t get much from it. Then he signed up for the Two-Brain Incubator and everything changed.

Mateo:                                      00:00                       I’m Mateo from Two-Brain marketing. And on this edition of the Two-Brain marketing podcast, I’m telling you with Cody from crossfit Coldwater and crossfit Angola. You’re going to hear about the first crossfit class he ever took back in 2014 and how after just one year, one year later after taking that class, he became the owner of his own affiliates. We’ll also learn how he turned $250 in paid ad spend and he took that and turned it into $5,500 in new member revenue. So make sure you subscribe to Two-Brain radio for more marketing tips and secrets each week.

Announcer:                            00:35                       This episode is brought to you by InciteTax. Incitetax is founded by John Briggs, a crossfitter, a great big tall guy with a fantastic sense of humor and John is like a coach for your books. These guys are not just pencil pushing number crunchers. These guys will actually help you get towards your perfect day if you’re a member of our Growth stage, part of the mentoring program. You’re familiar with John’s videos on 1099 versus W2 contractors. See John used to work for the IRS. He’s seen the other side of labor law and he knows exactly where the line is drawn. Don’t believe everything you read, but on the tax side, John can actually help you plan to take home more money every year and save more money on taxes because John is a certified profit first accountant. If you’ve listened to this podcast before, you know that I’m a big fan of Mike Michalowicz’ profit first system and John at Incitetax and his staff can help you plan backwards from profit to get to where you need to go. It’s helped members of the Two-Brain family buy houses in the first year that they’ve implemented profit First. It’s helped people save more money, take home more money and make the business do what it’s supposed to do, which is pay you.

Mateo:                                      01:44                       Hello, welcome to the Two-Brain marketing podcast. I’m your host, Mateo Lopez. I’m one of the digital marketing mentors at Two-Brain business and this is your weekly dose of digital marketing magic. Every week we go over arching campaign strategies, useful tips, updates to keep you in the loop on the ever changing landscape of advertising on the Internet for Your Business. In today’s episode we have a special guest, Cody from fortitude, strength conditioning, which is the home of crossfit Coldwater. He’s also the owner of crossfit Angola. And you’re going to learn a little bit more about him and his experience. He’s someone who’s also tried different consulting companies and mentorship companies. So hopefully we’ll hear more about his experience there and, and what it’s been like transitioning in working with some of the systems we have at Two-Brain and also learn more about his paid advertising system, how he was able to generate some, some pretty cheap leads and, and, and some new members. So welcome.

Cody:                                         02:37                       How are you?

Mateo:                                      02:38                       I’m doing well.

Cody:                                         02:38                       Thanks for, thanks for having me on.

Mateo:                                      02:40                       No worries. So, so for those listening, tell us a little bit about who you are, where you’re from and in and you know, what’s Your Business? My name’s Cody Ringle from Coldwater, Michigan. Uh, we’re just north of Indiana, only about 13 miles up. I have another gym in Cross crossfit, Angola in Indiana, about 25 miles south. Oh, I have a really awesome partner down there who runs the day to day. Um, he’s the face of the gym named Seth. He went through the, uh, went through part of the incubator with me.. Really good guy to have in place down there. Makes that really successful. I started this whole crossfit thing about 2014 and very much like everybody else, you know?

Mateo:                                      03:25                       Yeah.

Mateo:                                      03:27                       That was right at the hockey stick.

Cody:                                         03:29                       Oh yes. Well, I started when I started, I did my first crossfit class and I remember it was something very simple. You know, it was like five rounds of some pushups, lunges, and ring rows. I didn’t make it through the entire workout. I thought I was gonna throw up. I didn’t come back for three months. Uh, when I finally did, I just, I loved it. And I, six months later started coaching in the thing at the affiliate that I was going to and started to grow a pretty good relationship with the owner there.

Cody:                                         03:59                       Um, he became one of my first mentors. And probably about six months after I started coaching, I got a call from him one night and he’s like, Hey, meet me up at Buffalo wild wings. Let’s have a beer.

Mateo:                                      04:12                       Nice.

Cody:                                         04:13                       S o we stopped. I stopped up there and had a beer with him and he just, he told me he felt like, uh, you know, God was calling him in a different direction and he was either going to sell the gym to me or he was going to close the doors.

Mateo:                                      04:24                       So was that cold water?

Cody:                                         04:26                       Yeah, that was crossfit coldwater–it used to be crossfit pursuit. So I ended up thinking about it a little bit and obviously it was something that I wanted to do. I was bit by the bug and, and I want it to be a part of this thing. So I ended up basically purchasing from him, his equipment and the members that he had at the time, which was somewhere between like only 30 and 40.

Cody:                                         04:46                       So we had like two classes a day. It wasn’t a big thing. Um, and grew, grew from there. I brought a couple of partners with me. They have since exited the business. I wouldn’t be here, you know, where we’re at right now without their, without their input and their help throughout the time. And for me, this really took off for the first two years that I did this, this coaching and ownership thing. It was very much, uh, kind of just a thing to do. And it was like, yeah, I’d love to run this full time and I’d like to eventually get there at some point in time. But I had a full time job.

Mateo:                                      05:22                       Let’s talk about that for a second. When, so when did you actually purchase the gym?

Cody:                                         05:26                       2015 January of 2015.

Mateo:                                      05:29                       Took your first crossfit workout 2014 and bought your first crossfit gym a year later. That’s pretty fast turnaround. And then so, and you had a full time job too?

Cody:                                         05:41                       Yes.

Mateo:                                      05:42                       Jumping into entrepreneurship, you know, it’s not for everyone. What kind of made you want to go in that direction?

Cody:                                         05:48                       I felt I was a, you know, I played sports in high school and I played rugby in college and I really enjoyed the competitive side of it. So very much like everybody who got involved in 2014 about that, the early teens or so, like the, the competition side was what I loved. And I slowly, I slowly kind of fell in love with the ability to change people’s lives. It’s, that’s I think a story I hear all the time from people. I started seeing people finally talking about how hey, I feel, I feel a whole lot better when I do this thing. So we fell in love with that aspect of it and I was lucky enough to have a couple of partners who could help kind of balance the load at that point in time. So it was able to be kind of a part time gig.

Cody:                                         06:28                       But when we started, you know, the goal was always to kind of make this more of a, of a standalone business and operate on its own. So my, uh, in December 18th of 2016 I lost my father. I came home on a Sunday and he was, he passed away on my couch and that was a real turning point for me. Um, that hit me really hard and it made me really realize that this thing is short and if I keep putting this off and I might never get to it. So it was just after like the Murph, five months later, I stood up on a box in the middle of the gym and I said, hey, January 19th is going to be my first day full time at the gym.

Mateo:                                      07:07                       Was it ready to take you on full time a year?

Cody:                                         07:09                       I need to just stop my job and just do it. We both, we had just secured a contract with cold water high school to manage their strength and conditioning for their entire high school for three years. Yeah. So there was some revenue coming in from that. The Gym, we were clearing $5,000 a month. We were, and that was, that was our gross. We were not in a position to support anybody full time. So, I mean, my first six months I made about 10 grand, you know, that’s what I brought home. So it was very much like a, I got to do this and I know I got to struggle for a little bit and try to build this thing up. Um, or else it was just going to be a hobby all the time. So kind of just jumped right into it. Very much like the ownership and the coaching thing, you know, That’s how most of us have gotten into where we are. We just kind of took the plunge. And it was the best decision I’ve ever made. I mean, it’s been a very stressful and, and challenging couple of years, but it’s led to a tremendous amount of growth. And I’ve had a wonderful opportunity to work with some, some different coaches throughout the years, and then some other consulting firms. And I started the incubator back in March of this year, so, or February, excuse me, finished it at the end of March. And in programs that I had been with before, it was, it was very clear that they had a template and things that they wanted you to do, um, milestones to hit. And there was no room for really adaptation for where I was at in my business. I had worked with the firm I was with before for, for two years as they made transitions.

Cody:                                         08:46                       And then I went through their foundations program, which I had the first five calls that I had with them felt almost entirely worthless because he’s like, okay, we’re going to work on your intro session today. And then he’s like, here’s what I want you to do. I was like, all right, let me tell you what our intro process looks like. And I laid it all out for him. And he goes, yeah, that’s, that’s exactly it. And I said, okay, so what do we talk about now for 40 minutes? And it was just, it just, it wasn’t where I needed to go. I’d probably outgrown that and what they had to offer. The first call in the incubator man, I got on it with uh, with Jeff Larsh or actually my first couple of calls were with Ashley Mak and my first incubator call with Jeff. I got off of it and I looked at my, my partner in Angola and I was like, this is going to be the best decision I’ve ever made. Yeah.

Mateo:                                      09:32                       And I guess what was the deal? Is it just that you were not receiving, I guess the personalized coaching that you needed for where your business was that or is it just, it was not being challenged enough for,

Cody:                                         09:45                       it was, they had kind of, it was kind of their, their Beta program for the foundation’s deal. So it was their second run at it and it was just, it was very clear that there was kind of a, you know, almost for my mentor there was like a script and bullet points to follow. There was very little adaptation. It was like, Hey, these are the things we need to get done on this call today. And that’s the scope of what we’re going to do. And every call that I’ve been on with Jeff, it was like, all right, sweet. No, that’s good. Let’s move on. Let’s work on something else. I didn’t have that before. I just don’t know if the process was refined in the way that, you know, Two-Brain has it refined. So I’ve just found a tremendous amount of value in having somebody who can look at the business that I have right now and tell me exactly where I need to go to to get out of this, this founder phase that I’ve been in for, for, for four years.

Mateo:                                      10:38                       So talk to me a little bit about that. Right. So it sounds like, you know, what motivated you to make the switch? You said you’re kind of in the founder phase, you’re kind of feel like you’ve been stuck there. What motivated you to, to, to want to get out of that and, and then how has it changed since working with, with Jeff and, and, and going through the incubator?

Cody:                                         10:57                       Yeah. One of the big motivators for me was, you know, this year, uh, tomorrow I turned 30. So

Mateo:                                      11:04                       Nice. Happy Birthday.

Cody:                                         11:06                       Thank you. It’s, I’m not a a 25 year old who can continue to be a martyr in this thing and not making any money. I’m, one of the biggest revelations that I had with Jeff was I got off one of our calls and I just, I was finally excited about how much money we were going to make. And that’s nothing, that’s not a Lens I’ve ever looked at this thing through. I mean, I started, you know, I, I, when I started coaching, it was a trade for membership deal. It was, it was, I spent years donating my time and pouring personal money into this thing just so finally I was like, okay, this can be sustainable. I had had some, um, you know, some employees on like full time before, uh, in 2018. And the deal was I was tired of missing paychecks. I would make sure that they would get paid. And then at the end of the month, there’d be, you know, nothing left. Yeah.

Mateo:                                      11:58                       You get whatever the scraps leftover over if you’re lucky.

Cody:                                         12:01                       Right. And if you don’t have a crazy expense that pops up. So I was personally tired of that and so I took my own personal, you know, it’s all your personal money when you own the business, but I took my own money and I invested in the incubator. I didn’t pull that out of the business. I did that, you know, from money that I arguably couldn’t afford at the time. But I had heard one thing earlier on in my, uh, somewhere in 2018 it says, if you can’t afford it, then that’s exactly what you need to be doing. If you feel like you can’t afford it. And that’s exactly what I did. I was like, okay, let’s go, let’s do this thing now since starting just, I really big on the process and the path to mastery, that’s kind of laid out before you, we preach that in our gyms all the time. Right. People want to get a muscle up. We’re like, hey, here’s the path to get this thing. I had never had that for my business. I’ve, I started this thing because I enjoyed coaching and I loved Christ and I wanted to help people. I had no idea what I was signing up for when I stood on that box and said, hey, I’m going to go into this thing full time. I thought I was going to coach and chill. Boy was I wrong?

Mateo:                                      13:07                       Yeah. Yeah. You think, yeah, I’m going to coach some classes. I’m going to help some people and then we’ll chill on the couch. We’ll train together.

Cody:                                         13:16                       Yup. And then it’ll all be great. I’ll bring my best friends in here and we’re just going to train all day and then we’ll coach sometimes. Yeah. That’s just not how it worked out. And then, you know, I get hit with stress like everybody else and then it really hit me over the summer of 2018 I got Bell’s palsy. Uh, I don’t know if you’re familiar with that, but it’s like a mixture of stress and inflammation and a nerve. And this side of my face paralyzed. So I was like this, I was like this for two weeks and wow, it could come back, it might not. It might take two weeks, it might take a year. And I finally sat my coaches at the time down. So Seth, who’s my partner in Angola started here full time with me as a coach. It was kind of an opportunity for us to work on building that thing and teaching him the backend stuff for the business. And I was like, look guys, something needs to change. I can’t do this anymore. And really at the beginning of this year, I told myself, I was like, I either have to like start making some money at this thing or I got to get a real job. I mean this is a real job, but when you’re making

Mateo:                                      14:16                       I, yeah, I get what you’re saying.

Mateo:                                      14:17                       When you’re making, you know, 1000 bucks a month, it’s hard to support anything like that.

Mateo:                                      14:22                       And we’ve talked to a lot of gym, like we talked to probably over 130 gym, gym owners, a a month when they’re inquiring about the service. And it’s just like everyone pretty much in the same boat, you know, when they have heard the same story a lot and it’s, you know, it’s, and that’s why we do what we do because everyone gets into it for the same reason that you just said, right. We want to just help people. Yes. We have this thing that we’re passionate about. We see it as a really effective tool for changing lives and we’re just trying to put that in the hands of as many people as possible. But it’s tough when you, yeah. When you’ve never had to build systems before to build something that’s can be a process that can be repeatable and manage people, um, which can be sometimes the hardest part. So, so, okay. So you, you reached this breaking point and then I know you started to touch on a little bit about the systems, but how have you seen things things change?

Cody:                                         15:15                       I finally have some SOPs or you know, like a lot of gym owners, I’m used to doing all the things and wearing all the hats and I’ll coach and then I’ll do the marketing and the Facebook and uh, clean the toilets and absolutely right. Put the mats away. Hundred percent spend an hour vacuuming every night, you know, and I just, I always thought that’s what you’re supposed to do. You know, you’ve got to grind and you’ve got to work 14 hours a day and if you don’t sleep at night because you’re stressed out, well that’s part of the game, man. You know, you’re supposed to suffer a little bit grind in. Yes. Right. And then you get Bell’s palsy. So, but I got, you know, I just got to the point where, okay, Two-Brain laid out a path for me to start implementing these things and building these things out. And it really helped me realize that I don’t have to do every single thing by myself. And if I document it in the right way, a lot of my, my fears with, with, with, with a lot of entrepreneurs I think especially in this space is we’re afraid that if we don’t do it, it’s not going to get done in the same way.

Mateo:                                      16:12                       Yeah. It’s not going to be the way I needed to get done. No one knows how to put these mats away so that it fits on the shelf. And like I do, no one’s going to like clean the toilet the way I know how there’s the thing in the back that needs to get fixed. You always want to coach this person of correctly, cause I did their intro and I know that they have a bum knee. Like no one’s going to be able to do it quite like me.

Cody:                                         16:30                       Yup. Yeah. That’s the, that’s the fear for sure. And I took that into every aspect and it was almost, it had got to the point where I was like, you know, I had a couple of full time coaches early on in 20 in the summer of 2018 and it got to the point where after we were done with the summer and the strength and conditioning for the high school, it was like, okay, what do we do now? Cause we went from having an 11 classes a day to five classes a day and there was a bunch of hours that needed to be filled and I had no systems built out so I had nothing. I was like, ah, you know, just do the things that I would do. Through Two-Brain I now have the ability to be like, okay, these are the things that I need you to do and this is exactly how I would like them to be done. And if it’s a, if it’s a small deviation from the exact way that I would do it, dude, it’s still 99% better than it would be if I said, hey, go do this thing for me. Yeah.

Mateo:                                      17:21                       Now your time is freed up so you can refine it so they can get closer to being the way you want it to be done. Yup. Which I think is how you level up out of that founder phase.

Cody:                                         17:31                       Yeah. And I can now focus on the higher value things like, uh, you know, I can focus on the sales process and the, and really refining the No-Sweat Intros, and we can have these bigger conversations about, okay, how do we make foundations better? One of the things that, that we did over the incubator was I used to, uh, give foundations away.

Mateo:                                      17:50                       Well, yeah, yeah. We hear that a lot.

Cody:                                         17:52                       Yeah. I got on, we talked about foundations. I was on my call with Jeff and he’s like, here’s what you’re going to do. You’re going to start charging for foundations and you’re going to charge 165.

Mateo:                                      18:01                       They start panicking because like, no one’s going to be a little floored. It no one’s going to stay.

Cody:                                         18:06                       He’s like, do you think that’s something you can do? And I was like, yeah, I think so maybe. Right. My very next no sweat intro sold a foundations and I went, holy crap, we can do this. Yep. I ran that first foundation and one thing that I can say it was, it was one of the best foundations that I have ever done because I now attached the value to the thing. Even as a coach, I’m like, they’re paying extra money. I got to bring it, man. I gotta do the best that I possibly can. Not that I wasn’t trying to do that before, but in a way, yeah,

Mateo:                                      18:37                       totally different. And especially for your, if you’re not even doing it right now, if your coaches are going to be doing now, you can compensate them for it. It’s a whole, absolutely. Whole other ball game there. Yeah. Which I think is really what you said is really, really important. Amazing. So I guess let’s, and then in your, let’s see if we can, let’s talk about that a little bit more. You’ve been talking about no sweat intros in your own words, what is it that you sell and how do you sell it?

Cody:                                         19:01                       We sell bad-ass 90 year olds, right? I want health and fitness for everybody that we work with. One of the things that I have, I get to have these conversations. I get to sell solutions to problems. I’m not selling a gym membership. This is one of the biggest things we’ve had to overcome and that’s huge. Yeah, this is one of the biggest things we’ve had to overcome just as a, we’re, we’re a relatively small town, I think there’s like 10,000 people in cold water and there’s a couple of, you know, traditional gyms selling memberships for 20-30 bucks a month, two year contracts, nobody bats an eye. We’re the highest priced crossfit affiliate in the area. So to have a conversation with people and to sit down and be like, all right, our membership, you know, our foundations is going to cost you between 165 to $265 a month.

Cody:                                         19:46                       Our memberships are $120 a month. A lot of them are like, but the gym down the road is 35 and that’s a whole lot cheaper. So I’ve had a really great opportunity to kind of inform these people on the value that we’re going to provide and the difference. And that’s I think a huge disconnect. And one of the problems with the whole fitness thing as a whole right now is the planet fitnesses of the world are selling this thing for 10 bucks a month and give them free pizza. But, and we’re, we’re over here asking for 125 for what people perceive to be a similar service and it’s not at all. So I get to like layer in the education process now through our No-sweat intros and just getting to sit down and have conversations with people. And even if they don’t buy from me on that day, we’ve got to have that higher level conversation and now they at least understand that we’re not even playing the same game as the traditional gym down the road.

Mateo:                                      20:38                       Yeah, I think it’s important that a big part of the, the, the consultation, the intro processes. Yeah. You’re doing a lot of educating for a lot of people. Yeah. And I think that’s for those who are kind of not afraid of selling, but who have not the most positive feelings about selling leave. You approach it the way you just said where you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re offering solutions.

Cody:                                         20:59                       No, it’s not, I’m not trying to sell this PT package. I’m, I’m trying to sell a solution to, you told me you have bad knees and you’ve haven’t been able to work out cause okay, well then we’re going to fix your bad knees, but it’s going to, it’s going to take this, this and this. Yes. Uh, you know, so I think, I think that’s key. And one of the things that I kind of got from one of the things I kinda got from Blake

Mateo:                                      21:18                       Who is Blake?

Cody:                                         21:20                       He’s my Marketing Mentor at Two-Brain — is we were able to have, you know, a couple of conversations over our calls and he’s like, you almost have a duty to, to sell this to these people. Because if they’re not with you, they’re going to go back to doing what they were doing before and not being successful with. And if you don’t position this in a way that, that you’re going to be able to help them, then I fail on my part and I’m losing the ability to change one life. And in a small town, that’s a lot. Even in a big town, that’s a lot. It’s a, it’s an awesome opportunity that we have as affiliate owners and we owe it to the people that we’re working with to, to up our game and be, become better at selling this thing.

Mateo:                                      21:57                       Well, and there, you know, every time they opt in or send you an email, find your website, like they’re raising their hand and they’re saying, I need help with something. Yeah. So, you know, that’s, that’s really all, that’s how I try to teach sales. Like you’re just responding. This person’s essentially a cry for help, you know that they’re asking for help and you’re offering a solution to that problem. And you mentioned Blake, so walk us through if you can, the, the work that you’ve done, the paid advertising system that you’ve been able to set up.

Cody:                                         22:27                       Yeah. So one of the coolest, I think things for me as a, as a small business owner is the education aspect. So I have now gotten to learn the systems and the processes and how to do these things well with, with, with Two-Brain marketing, you know, their guidance. It was something that had been touched on in previous, um, with previous companies that I had worked with. But theirs was very, I guess, proprietary. It was very like secret, you know, hey, we’re going to do this thing, but we’re not going to show you how, because I don’t want you to go and reproduce it. It was the exact opposite. It was total transparency with Two-Brain. It was like, hey dude, if you learn how to do this, you’re going to be successful. And if you’re successful, you’re going to tell other people about what. So it was coming from kind of more of a growth mindset then that fixed scarcity mindset, which I loved so much.

Mateo:                                      23:16                       Yeah, that’s how, that’s what I’ve said this before on his why I designed the course the way I did. Like, I don’t think this stuff should be secret. Like I think, yeah, I think everyone should know how to use the Internet to generate new business. Like I think everyone should know how to do this for themselves. You know? I think once you learn it, if you want to, you know, at some point down the line when your business is big enough handed off to someone on your staff or a third party, like you can do that, but you still have to, like you said, you need to develop mastery over this, this part of your business. I mean digital advertising and paid advertising and marketing paid or not like it’s, it’s the key to your growth, so why wouldn’t you want to be in complete control of that and know how to do it for yourself?

Cody:                                         23:57                       Right. As far as the building out the ads, I had a ton of help from, from Blake. He basically said, hey, these are the things that I’m doing that are working really well for me, and the dude was awesome enough to pretty much give it to me. He’s like, all right, here’s what we’re going to start with. And I’ve only been running ads for about two weeks now. We started our, our, our first paid, ads two weeks ago. And you know, like I said before, I had installed Facebook pixels before, but I had no idea what exactly they were, what they did or how to, how to use them. So I had a little bit of like competency from stuff that I’d worked with before, but no real understanding. And I had never done any sort of metrics like this perfect example, the only about a week into these paid advertising, these paid ads.

Cody:                                         24:41                       I was looking at the amount of leads that we were getting. I was looking at the No Sweats booked and the clients that we closed, we had something like 55 leads and had only closed about seven clients. And I sat here one day just all in my feelings and I’m like, am I really a terrible salesperson? I’ve had 30 people come through the door and I’ve had 23 of them tell me that it’s priced too high. It’s not for me. I’ll think about it. I got to talk to my spouse and I’ll be back. Right. And I just was like, man, I must really not be as good as this thing as I had originally thought I was. And I stepped away from that for a second. I put everything in my big sheet to calculate metrics and then I rewatched some of the videos and you’re like, you were talking about a close rate of 11 or 12%. You’re like, this is really good. And that’s right where I was at. And I’m like, all right, this is a lot better than I had thought it was at the time. And then I saw the total revenue and I’m like, holy crap. We’ve brought in in front end revenue. I’m a quarter of what we made last month. We brought in more front end revenue over this two weeks more than the gym made when I took over full time two years ago.

Mateo:                                      25:47                       Wow. That’s awesome.

Cody:                                         25:49                       It’s, it’s been nothing like short of a crazy success. Right? I mean, we’re paying $2.69 a lead as of Monday.

Mateo:                                      25:56                       That’s awesome, man. That’s great. Yeah, and I think, I think dealing with colder traffic too is it’s a different kind of mindset and you do have to look at it a little bit more. Yeah, exactly what you’re saying it to look at the numbers. Say, Hey, if I can get 70 or 80% of these people to that are inquiring to, to come to the book and then if I can get 70 to 80% of the people that come in and talk to me and then from there, as long as I can close, you know, half of them I’m having a really good return on my ad spend and I think that’s, that’s what’s a little bit different than organic for sure. Awesome.

Cody:                                         26:26                       That was definitely a hard thing because you know what, I’m used to people coming in who are highly motivated and they’ve experienced the know, talked with people before and they’re like, yeah, I’m ready. I’m ready. When do we start? Let’s go. And it was just a much different experience than when it was a great learning process for me.

Mateo:                                      26:40                       Yeah. But in those, in those scenarios, right. Half the selling’s already been done for, you. They have talked to a friend or they’ve researched crossfit on their own or they’ve watched videos from HQ or the journal like that’s, that’s half the selling already happening for you. So yeah, it’s just a different, it’s just a different mindset, a different approach. And what I like to tell people is like this paid advertising route should be just one part of everything else that you’re doing, right? Yeah. And you should continue to be doing your, your outreach and your, your events. You should continue to outreach directly to, to to members and ask them for hey is or your husband or someone who might be interested in this as well. Like you should continue to do everything else that you’re doing advertising. Just one other piece to bolster your business and your growth. Having the coldleads is something that has helped me kind of refine my toolbox and get better at this.

Cody:                                         27:28                       Just having conversations with people about what we’re offering because it’s, I mean, we went to a 30 minute No-Sweat intro, and before we did an hour long, it included a workout. We went to that 30 minute, no sweat. So you’re really just just sitting down and learning about people and just shutting up and listening to them, uh, for 20 minutes. And then you get an opportunity to be like, awesome. I think that you know what you’re going through, we can really help with here’s what we have to offer and here’s the value that we’re going to provide. And this is why we’re different than anybody else in this space right now. And based on what you told me this is, this is the path you. Yeah. So the cold traffic has really helped me refine the message and I, I, I appreciate it. It’s helped me sharpen my iron and develop and I love that part of it.

Mateo:                                      28:10                       Awesome, man. Well, I think we’ve touched on this pretty much throughout this whole conversation, but I mean it sounds like you’re doing great. It sounds like you’ve been able to, to really level up out of that founder phase and you’re seeing some awesome growth so far and it sounds like you can continue to do that. You’ve put your, your partner at Angola through some of the process. Sounds like his business is changing to what, you know, what do you think has been the key to your success so far?

Cody:                                         28:34                       Probably as a business, as a whole. Caring about people just trying to come from the position that we can help where everybody talks about it in CrossFit. The community is what a is what people people stand for is what they come back for. Everybody, you know, you start from the workout and you stay for the people we have over the last couple of years, you know, gone through some, some tough stuff in, in coldwater with, you know, coaches leaving and uh, ownership, uh, departing.

Cody:                                         29:04                       And it has really allowed me to, to sit back and step back from this thing and say that, okay, you know, the community here is unlike anything that I’ve ever experienced or especially in it in a gym, you know, I mean, I played college sports in high school sports and I, we got some really good friends. The best relationships that I’ve developed have come from this thing, this thing called crossfit. Um, for us as kind of a, a beacon of, of fitness in the community. We’re all in this journey together, right? We’re all headed towards this thing called fitness. Why not act like it? The worst thing that, that in my opinion with, with the fitness space as a whole is walking in somewhere, having people with their headphones in and their eyes down and the only conversations that you have is, hey, you done using that?

Cody:                                         29:50                       That sucks. Yeah. And we can do better. And I think that like people are starting to see that. So the, the, the shift and the change. In the community. And you know, the, the broader fitness landscape as a whole for us as a, as a business, small town, you know, word of mouth. If you’re doing things right and you’re treating people right, you, you’re going to be more successful. Now we are able to do that now better than ever before because of what I’ve gone through in the incubator and being able to, to have these processes in place and to make sure that when Steve and Ian Coach classes, it’s going to be to the same caliber that I would go to the class and we’re offering the best possible service and, and foundations is as good as it can be. And you know, I always want people to feel like they’re underpaying for our service.

Cody:                                         30:37                       Like they’re getting a tremendous value for, for what we ask for a membership. I can’t do all that by myself. The incubator has really helped me realize how to position myself to have a broader reach. Those systems and processes saved me and my business from the brink of a, of a collapse man without the incubator. And I was at my wits end with the service that I was working with before. I just felt kind of empty and I didn’t have that. I was ready to take the next step and nobody to tell me how I got that and more than I could ever, you know, repay from, from Two-Brain. So I’ve signed, I know I had my first growth call last month and, uh, I’m gonna do this thing until, you know, hopefully I retire one day.

Mateo:                                      31:25                       That’s awesome man. That’s great. I mean, I, let’s end on that note because I think that that was awesome. He just said, if people want to learn more about, uh, you know, what you got going on in, in Coldwater, Michigan, and your two gyms, where, where can they find you? How can they talk to you?

Speaker 4:                               31:40                       Yeah, so we’ve got ForTimedesign working on our new a website, so that’s going to be pretty dope. We’re on Facebook, it’s Fortitude strength and conditioning or crossfitAngola, and, Instagram. It’s the @crossfitAngola and @crossfitcoldwater. Um, my personal handle is Cody Ringle, they’re more than welcome to reach out and chat with me. I really enjoy talking to other gym owners and just hearing about the things that they’re doing well because I’m under no illusion that I’ve got this thing figured out. Uh, if it wasn’t for the people that I’ve been lucky enough to have, you know, in my life through different mentoring roles and, and things like Two-Brain, I would still have my head in the sand.

Mateo:                                      32:20                       So. Totally. Do you do any work with, uh, are you, I know you had the youth program, you, you guys, you only work with other youth athletics or I don’t know if you do any virtual coaching.

Cody:                                         32:30                       People want to, yeah, we don’t, I haven’t really expanded into remote coaching. I think that there’s, there’s a tremendous value in it. Don’t get me wrong, but I do much better one on one with a, with a person or in a group. Um, it’s just, I’m a better coach that way. Um, yeah, we do everything from, we worked from kids, you know, we’ve got a summer camp that has the third all the way down to third grade who come in and we’re just teaching them to have fun with fitness. So we work from the, we work with the eight year old to the 98 year old.

Mateo:                                      33:00                       Awesome. All right man. Well thanks for hopping on and I’m looking forward to seeing what the rest of the 2019 holds for you.

Cody:                                         33:06                       Yeah, thanks for sure.

Chris:                                         33:08                       Hey everyone. Chris Cooper here. I’m really thrilled to see you this year in June in Chicago at the 2019 Two-Brain summit. Every year we have two separate speaking tracks–one for you, the business owner and there’s one for coaches that will help them make better, longer, more meaningful careers under the umbrella of your business. This year we’ve got some pretty amazing topics like the client success manager, how to change your life organizational culture or the business owner’s life cycle, how to have breaks, how to have vacations, how to help your marriage survive, owning a business and motivation and leadership. How to convert more clients, how to create a GM position that runs your gym for you and leaves you free to grow your business. How to start a business owner’s group in your community in more point here is to do the right thing that will help gym owners create better businesses that will last them for the longterm, get them to tinker phase, help them be more successful, create meaningful careers that their coaches and give their clients a meaningful path to longterm health. We only do one big seminar every year and that’s the two brain summit and the reason that we do that is because a big part of the benefit is getting the to bring community together and welcoming strangers into our midst and showing them how amazing gym ownership really can be. We’ll have a link to the two brain summit including a full list of all speakers and topics on both the owners and the coaches side in the show notes. I really hope to see you there.

Speaker 5:                               34:35                       As always, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. We greatly appreciate you and everyone that has subscribed to us. If you haven’t done that, please make sure you do drop a like to that episode. Share with a friend, and if you haven’t already, please write us a review and rate us on how what you think. If you hated it, let us know if you loved it, even better. See you guys later.




This is our NEW podcast, Two-Brain Marketing, where we’ll focus on sales and digital marketing. Your host is Mateo Lopez!

Greg Strauch will be back on Thursday with the Two-Brain Radio Podcast.

Thanks for Listening!

To share your thoughts:


To help out the show:

  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.
  • Subscribe on iTunes.
Episode 168: Exercise Over Opioids

Episode 168: Exercise Over Opioids


“We have an opioid crisis. And medical practitioners have a fairly narrow scope when it comes to low back pain.”

So back pain is very common, but I mean, every profession has what I refer to as a tool box.
And ironically, the care or the treatment that you’re going to get depends not on what’s wrong with you, rather what the person that you see, what’s in their toolbox,
So if you see a guy and he’s got a hammer, well, you know what you’re going to get. If you’ve got a screwdriver, you know what you’re going to get, right?
In the toolbox of a physician, they have access to diagnostic imaging, right? So they can order things like x rays and MRIs and CAT scans. Then they basically they also have access to drugs.

The way we think about treating back pain is wrong. The way we talk about it is wrong. And that process is hurting us.

In the quest to change healthcare, there are many starting points. Today we are joined by André Riopel, a local physical therapist and entrepreneur from Canada helping chart the future of healthcare. Andre has a wealth of experience in the physiotherapy field treating all kinds of major injuries and learning what it takes to avoid them. We talk about prevention of major injuries and how CrossFit gyms can help facilitate continued health into later years. Join us as we learn from Andre’s experiences and his unique point of view on the healthcare field.


Don’t Forget about the 2019 Two Brain Summit, June 8-9 in Chicago! This year we have some amazing topics and guests for both yourself and your coaches. Click here to register and sign up now!





1:30 – Introduction to André Riopel

3:35 – Andre’s story and how he got started in physical therapy

8:28 – How should a physician treat lower back pain

12:07 – The problems with diagnostic imaging in the medical field

29:11 – The trouble with diagnosing back pain

33:21 – The mechanical diagnosis of back pain

41:23 – Back Pain caused by Derangement

48:00 – Is joint popping a good thing?

51:59 – Dysfunctional injuries as an athlete ages

59:45 – The three activities every human should be able to do

110:44 – How to reach André Riopel


Thanks for Listening!

To share your thoughts:


To help out the show:

  • Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.
  • Subscribe on iTunes.

TwoBrain Marketing Episode 9: Kevin Rundlett

TwoBrain Marketing Episode 9: Kevin Rundlett

 Two Brain Marketing Episode 9: Kevin Rundlett of CrossFit Chi-Rho


Today we are joined by Kevin Rundlett of CrossFit Chi Rho in Jackson Mississippi. In addition to running his CrossFit gym, Kevin works full time as a lawyer and is even the city prosecutor! Growing up lifting weights and training since he was 15, Kevin fell in love with CrossFit and after learning that the gym they attended was being sold, they jumped right in to keep it going. In August of 2017, Kevin and his wife purchased the gym and have been running it ever since! Join us as we learn how Kevin manages his gym, law practice and how Two-Brain has helped with both!


Don’t Forget about the 2019 Two Brain Summit, June 8-9 in Chicago! This year we have some amazing topics and guests for both yourself and your coaches. Click hereto register and sign up now!





2:20 – Introduction to Kevin 

6:14 – Advice for others who are considered purchasing their gym

12:30 – What it takes to break even and profit as a gym owner

13:30 – Staffing a gym that was recently purchased 

15:03 – The importance of finding a good general manager

18:27 – The key to success when first starting a new gym

21:16 – How to contact Kevin

Announcer:                            00:02                       Welcome everyone to Two-Brain Radio. It is our mission at Two-Brain to provide 1 million entrepreneurs the freedom to live the life that they choose. Join us every week as we discover the very best practices to achieve perfect day and move you closer to well,

Chris:                                         00:26                       this episode is brought to you by healthy steps nutrition. I first met Nicole over a year ago when one of my favorite crossfit affiliates introduced me to her because Nicole was helping them. Sam Brumenschenkel at crossfit port orange started a nutrition program in her box and that conversation turned into something larger a year later and Nicole has a fantastic bolt on nutrition program that you can add to your box anywhere in the world. So if you’re thinking, I need to start presenting better nutrition information to my clients or I need a new revenue stream, or I want to know more about nutrition, but I don’t know where to get started, healthy steps has that. What they’re going to do is put you or one of your coaches even better through a course, get them qualified to start teaching nutrition. Then they’re going to add you to a private Facebook group.

Chris:                                         01:14                       They’re going to give you a roll out so that you can do a nutrition challenge at your gym, which more than pays for the cost of enrolling them in the course and then provide an ongoing mentorship program for your nutrition program so you can continue to run things for your clients like in nutrition accountability plan every month like we do at catalyst. Nicole is a fantastic person and after launching healthy steps nutrition online, she actually opened up her own box. She’s working with some massive clients including some big big school boards across the country now and she’s in a great position to actually change people’s lives. With nutrition. You can be a conduit for that. Your clients need nutrition advice and counseling. Healthy steps is the best possible solution to this. It’s bolt on. You can take a coach who’s passionate about nutrition and give them the help they need to start a program overseen by a registered dietician, Nicole Marchand, Healthy Steps Nutrition is a proud sponsor of Two-Brain and I am so glad to have them. Nicole will be speaking at our summit in Chicago, June 7 and 8 this year. You do not want to miss her.

Mateo:                                      02:20                       Hello and welcome to the two main marketing podcast. I’m your host, Mateo Lopez. I’m one of the digital marketing mentors at Two-Brain business. Thanks for tuning in. This is your weekly dose of Digital Marketing Magic. Every week we go over marketing campaign strategies, useful tips and updates to keep you in the loop on the ever changing landscape of advertising on the Internet for Your Business. And today’s episode is special guest Kevin from crossfit Chi-Roh and we’re going to learn about his experience and how he’s managed to juggle and balance his fulltime law practice and his gym. So, uh, Kevin, thanks for, thanks for joining us. And, uh, tell us, tell the people who are tuning in, you know, tell us a little about you, where you’re from, and and your business.

Kevin:                                        03:09                       Sure. Well, I’m married. My wife, Vicky and I are both attorneys. We have three children and five and we live in Clinton, Mississippi, which is about 12 miles west of our capital city of Jackson. Uh, the town is a population of about 35,000. Um, yeah, so we’d been practicing law for since 2001, so 17, 18 years. I’ve had my own law practice the entire time and uh, my wife has been in litigation prior to what she’s doing now. Currently she’s in administration for our church, which gives her some flexibility to, to manage the kids. And uh, so she’s got a full time job and I have a fulltime job. I am also the city prosecutor for the city.

Mateo:                                      04:05                       Oh, I didn’t know that.

Kevin:                                        04:07                       Yeah. So, so I, I wear several hats and it’s, it’s um, it keeps us very, very busy, especially with taking on, on the gym, which, you know, when we started out, all we had to do was purchase it and it was going to run itself. Right,

Mateo:                                      04:23                       right.

Kevin:                                        04:34                       That’s all we needed. Well, what happened there? We’d been members of our, our gym. It was in existence prior to us purchasing. We were members for about seven or eight years. We totally bought into the crossfit methodology. We loved it. We loved the community. And the prior owner felt led to go another direction and was ready to get out of it. So the gym was declining because he was, he was doing other things and he’s a good friend and, and did a great thing and starting the gym. But he was ready to get out and wait, said, well, hey, we love it. Let’s, uh, let’s, let’s make sure we keep it going so we have a place to continue what we love. And in August of 2017 we, we purchased it.

Mateo:                                      05:28                       Never been cheaper.

Kevin:                                        05:37                       But I’ll tell you what, the things that I’ve learned are invaluable. And if this had not happened, my wife and I would not have found Two-Brain, and the lessons that we’ve learned have not just helped us with the gym. They’ve also greatly helped us with our, our other businesses, my law practice, and my wife’s management of time. Um, so yeah, so it’s, it’s been a blessing even though life is very busy right now.

Mateo:                                      06:11                       That’s awesome. That’s amazing. Especially now as crossfit has been around the u s at least for a good while. Now, some of the people who opened gyms were the, were the pioneers there you see a lot of people selling their gyms. And so there are a lot of people who are trying to get in the game and buying and purchasing gyms like you did. So do you have any advice for someone who is thinking about purchasing an existing, uh, you know, fitness business?

Kevin:                                        06:45                       I know there’s other podcasts where you talk to people about the proper process of purchasing a gym and we did not do that, which is okay because we basically bought the equipment. So it wasn’t a huge investment. Did we know what we were getting into? Absolutely not. Uh, we thought, well, you know, we’re attorneys, we’ve been running our own practices, we can handle this. No problem. And I’m going to jump back and kind of walk you through how, how that went. When we purchased it in August of 17, it was not an affiliated crossfit affiliated gym. Um, the, the membership had gone from a high of probably 200 members. We’ve got a big space, 7- 7,500 square feet, little bit more good population in town, you know, lots of people to draw through. So it had gone from 200 or so folks at at the highest point to when we purchased it, probably 60 members and we took over and started getting things in line.

Kevin:                                        07:42                       I scrambled to get my L1– scrambled, to find the name that we wanted for the gym, get affiliated with Crossfit, got all that done. And in that time, uh, started to see the problems that we were having. Mainly the income of the gym was not covering the expense. Right. So I happened to be, I was listening to podcasts and I happened to be on a crossfit, podcasts, profiting podcasts, uh, that Chris Cooper was on. And he started talking about Two-Brain and I said, okay, I’m going to call. So this is, this is what we need. We were led to talk to him, I feel like so, so I called him and talked to Chris and he felt like we could use his help and understood what we were going through and hooked me up with Jeff Smith. So I started there my wife and I started the incubator in January of 2018 so we had about four months with no guidance and started the incubator, then went through that from January to April of 2018 so it took us about four months to get through that and keep in mind that the process has been slower for us because we have so many other hats and things we’re trying to balance.

Kevin:                                        08:57                       But that’s, that’s okay. We got through that initial period, the, the, you know, got the systems in place, started to get them in place where they, are they perfect. No, and that’s, that’s the problem that I had is I felt like, you know, these systems have got to be perfect and I would spend lots and lots of time, you know, we got to do this, this, this is this, right? Always questioning. But Jeff got me through that. You just have to get something in place and we can modify those as, as we grow. So we got the systems in place and got on the, um, got, got with Two-Brain growth after that. And I’ve been with them ever since. Um, worked with Jeff for for several more months, still getting the systems to where they needed to be. You know, we didn’t even have an onramp program.

Kevin:                                        09:44                       We didn’t, we didn’t have any kind of sales process. It was all just, you know, we’re going to get this. People are just going to come in the door and, and you know, as well as I do that it doesn’t work that way anymore. And through the process of implementing all of these systems, we lost members. You know, these are, these were old original members that started with me. So I don’t, I don’t know if they just had a problem paying someone that was by their side working out for so long or they didn’t like the change. We know no one, no one likes change. We understand that. Uh, so we, we lost almost all, you know, we may have a handful of those original guys and girls that were with us. So, you know, our, our ultimate goal here is to get the business running on its own right where we can step away and we can, we can be in that tinker phase and we can come in and just work out if we want to or just through the marketing or whatever it is.

Kevin:                                        10:41                       So we’re, that’s, that’s what we’re working towards. So we were at the point once we get the systems in where we needed to grow and enter Mateo and Blake and so I called you guys, uh, it was October, I think when we got started on this maybe, maybe just before September, October of 2018 and I signed up for the marketing incubator and understand, you know, I’m, I’m getting a little older, I’m not as tech savvy as you guys, so y’all, y’all, I went through the process and we did exactly what you said. We really didn’t deviate much at all and it wasn’t perfect. You know, we went through and we, we got the, the marketing videos and the landing pages and uh, you guys guided us through that. So, so it gave me some insight as to how it works. Can I get on there and do that right now on my own?

Kevin:                                        11:38                       No. And I’m sure there’s a lot of people like that out there and that’s okay. But you helped me through it. We got the system in place and started the Facebook advertising with the six week challenges and basically that’s, that’s what we’re doing. We haven’t changed it much. We change the pictures. We, we tweaked the language just a little bit. And so, you know, I listened to one of your podcast yesterday and I can’t remember the guy’s name, but you know, they made $200,000 and you know, I’m not, we’re not there, but we’ve invested $3,000 in advertising since we started and the front end revenue on that, it’s about $20,000.

Mateo:                                      12:19                       Wow.

Kevin:                                        12:20                       I don’t care who you are or how much, you know, that’s really good. Return on investment.

Mateo:                                      12:26                       Yeah, I think pretty spectacular.

Kevin:                                        12:46                       It doesn’t count the members that stick around

Mateo:                                      12:48                       exactly.

Kevin:                                        12:50                       And then they pay those monthly memberships. And you know, our, when we started and we took over the gym, membership rates were $50 a month, $70. You know, they were across the board, there were discounts everywhere. And um, now I, you know, I don’t have an exact number of what our average revenue per member is. I just don’t have time to, I know what’s going on, but I, you know, I need to focus on that and I think it’s important, but I just don’t have the time to really micromanage that yet. But I know what people are spending and it’s well over $150 probably average per member now. So much, much better than it was

Mateo:                                      13:35                       when you first purchased the gym, you know, was there a staff in place or did you cover a lot of classes?

Kevin:                                        13:42                       Yeah, well I didn’t have to cover a lot of classes. We had some staff in place, mainly just coaches. There was no general manager, there was no head coach, nothing like that. So our coaches have, have changed immensely. The way we train our coaches has changed immensely. We have a head coach now that manages the coaches and he does a great job. We recently, I went through the process of training someone to handle the lead nurturing process, the sales process, and he was also a personal trainer and was doing just great. And so I was, I was getting to that point of, I was seeing through the trees, that tinker area up, up, up top, right. And he left, he moved to another state unfortunately. So no, no bad blood there. But what that did was slide me back into that sales role. So the, the good part of that is I’ll learn how to train someone to do it and I can do it again. I just have to find the right person for that slot.

Mateo:                                      14:50                       Amazing so he moved states, which is fine, but now you kind of have a little bit of an SOP, standard operating procedure for that next person that comes your way. You can train them up and get them up and running pretty efficiently. So it sounds like you were fortunate enough that you didn’t really have to, you know, so a lot of people when they buy gyms, they have to coach all the classes, wear all the hats and then level all the way up. You are able to keep kind of the existing infrastructure in place it sounds like, and then develop the team that you had and, and then put that managerial level in between you eventually. So how are you able to do that? A lot of people struggle with that. What were the conversations that were had with the existing staff or the hey, change of direction. This is what we’re going to do now. How did you find that person to be that manager, uh, in between you and the, and the coaches? You know, tell us a little bit about that if you can.

Kevin:                                        15:44                       We’re not quite there yet. Once we started to get the systems, we have coaches meetings every two weeks and I was constantly talking to them about what we’re doing and, and, and they all bought in. But it was also an opportunity for me to explain the level of service that I want from my coaches. And some of them just weren’t there and that didn’t work out. So they ended up leaving. And we’re blessed with, with people that would come in at the right time and say, Hey, I’m looking to coach. And we move them into the spot. And as, as we’ve gone through the process, knowing our people and observing our people to see who’s in the right spot, we were able to get a head coach in place. Now what I’m working towards is getting the general manager in place. We’re still in that growth phase where we’ve got to get our revenue up to a certain point where I can afford to pay that general manager to, to handle a lot of the stuff that I’m doing.

Kevin:                                        16:48                       And, and I want to jump back a little bit because you, you asked me earlier, you know, how can I manage a law practice and do this well for the first year of my law practice stuff? Uh, I haven’t been doing the marketing for that. I wasn’t able to, you know, it’s maintaining, but I really focused on this and that was probably a mistake and something that Jeff and I, and I’m working with Brian Strump now, who’s awesome to, you know, both of them said, look, you’ve got to manage your time better and block time. So I’ve gotten better. I’m not perfect, but spend some time every day working on the law practice and don’t get distracted by everything coming in from the gym. So that’s, that’s kind of where we are. We’re not, we’re not there yet. We’re, we’re getting there. And slowly but surely. And, and I attribute that to you guys and, and, and Brian and Jeff, I probably know what to do. I understand what I’ve got to do. But taking the action and discussing it with someone else and having them say, hey, just do first, really, really helps.

Mateo:                                      17:51                       Yeah, no, that’s great. And obviously you’re not at the tinker stage yet. You’re not totally removed yet, but just even even be able to keep, keep your hands out of the machine completely, you know, or preventing yourself from tinkering constantly. I think it was, it’s really impressive, right? Especially when you’re taking over a new business, you know, allowing, cause that’s what I would’ve done if I were to, if I were to them what you did, I would have been coaching all the classes. I would have been like not trusting anyone to do it the way I wanted to do it. So I just think that that part in it of itself pretty impressive. And so you’re still working through the process. You’re still growing, you’re still leveling up and learning to manage your time and grow both your businesses at the same time. But I think it sounds like you’ve had a lot of success and you just, the fact that you’ve been able to take a gym that was charging $50 a month per membership too, you know, well over 150, uh, that you’ve, you’ve created new positions for people head coaching position, and you’re looking for a manager position now you’re still growing.

Mateo:                                      18:54                       I think you’ve seen a lot of success and growth so far. And you touched on it a little bit just now, but what do you think has been the key to your success so far? It sounds like you were talking about the, the guidance and the mentorship, but yeah. And in your own words, what do you think’s been the been the key to your success?

Kevin:                                        19:13                       The mentorship. And I’ve always been that way. Even when my law practice, I found that an older attorney and worked with him and went to him with any questions I had. So I’ve always kind of been in that mindset. And so it was a natural progression to do that with the gym as well. But let me tell you this, what I’ve learned through this process, because they don’t teach you how to be a business person in law school. You know? I suspect it’s the same for other professions as well.

Mateo:                                      19:45                       No,

Kevin:                                        19:45                       they don’t. So what I’ve learned through Two-Brain for the gym, I’m also transitioning into the law firm. The Facebook marketing is different for the clients that I have in the law practice and probably for other people that other businesses too. If it’s a service based industry that’s similar to this, great. I hope it works because there’s nothing better for marketing, for the gym, for the law. Practice is a little different and we’re still working through that. But what, what I’ve learned and what seems to be working right now is, is affinity marketing with other lawyers. So because of what I’ve learned through Y’all I’m sending out was I love letters to all my attorney associates that I know out there and telling them what I do and trying to help them with their law practice first and then saying, hey, this is what I do.

Kevin:                                        20:33                       If you need some help with it, let me know. And I’m starting to get referrals from them. So you know, it’s, it’s, it’s helped with the, the law business. If, you know, me doing roles and tasks there and working through the incubator stuff kind of on my own with that, just like it’s helped with the gym. So you know, the, the people that have other businesses and other practices that they’re trying to do at the same time as, as the gym yet. I think it’s important that you, your mirror, what you’re doing, quit the gym cause it’s, it’s really best practices. Right.

Mateo:                                      21:03                       That’s awesome. That’s great man. I think he, I don’t think I could have said it better myself. I think. Yeah, having a staff handbook, you know, it applies to any business, you know, having roles and tasks, any business. Well Great Kevin, thanks for hopping on today. People want to talk to you and where can they find you?

Kevin:                                        21:22                       Well our website is, is that’s C H I r h o. And you know my cell phone. I’m glad to give it out. I give it out to everybody. 601 750 0070

Mateo:                                      21:36                       wow. You’re braver than I am

Kevin:                                        21:38                       . I don’t, I man, I don’t, I don’t hide it. I give it to all my clients. Anybody that needs it just, just call me there and hey, I want to say my wife is a big part of this and you know, there’s, there’s certain struggles there when you’re trying to differentiate your roles, but you know, she’s our joy person right now. She sends out the welcome gifts, she sends out the written cards and does a great job with that. And she also manages all of our new memberships and payments. So know we were really worked together on this. We wouldn’t be, I wouldn’t have been able to get through, but what I do if she wasn’t doing what she does and the same vice versa,

Mateo:                                      22:15                       we’ll have to have a separate episode how to run a business with your spouse. It’s own handbook. Right, right. Awesome. Well thank you man. And uh, yeah, looking forward to seeing what the rest of 2019 holds for you.

Kevin:                                        22:32                       Yeah. I’ll be calling you soon about the marketing stuff.

Mateo:                                      22:34                       Oh, awesome.

Speaker 5:                               22:37                       Hey everyone. Chris Cooper here on really thrilled to see you this year in June in Chicago at the 2019 Two-Brain summit. Every year we have two separate speaking tracks — one for you, the business owner and there’s one for coaches that will help them make better, longer, more meaningful careers under the umbrella of your business. This year we’ve got some pretty amazing topics like the client success manager, how to change your life organizational culture or the business owner’s life cycle, how to have breaks, how to have vacations, how to help your marriage survive. Owning a business and motivation and leadership. How to convert more clients, how to create a GM position that runs your gym for you and leaves you free to grow your business. How to start a business owner’s group in your community and more point here is to do the right thing that will help gym owners create better businesses that will last them for the long term.

Speaker 5:                               23:28                       Get them to tinker phase, help them be more successful, create meaningful careers of their coaches and give their clients a meaningful path to longterm health. We only do one big seminar every year and that’s the Two-Brain summit and the reason that we do that is because a big part of the benefit is getting the to bring community and and welcoming strangers into our midst and showing them how amazing gym ownership really can be. We’ll have a link to the Two-Brain summit, including a full list of all speakers and topics on both the owners and the coaches side in the show notes. I really hope to see you there.

Speaker 6:                               24:05                       As always, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. We greatly appreciate you and everyone that has subscribed to us. If you haven’t done that, please make sure you do drop a like to that episode. Share with a friend, and if you haven’t already, please write us a review and rate us on how what you think. If you hated it, let us know if you loved it, even better. See you guys later.



This is our NEW podcast, Two-Brain Marketing, where we’ll focus on sales and digital marketing. Your host is Mateo Lopez!

Greg Strauch will be back on Thursday with the Two-Brain Radio Podcast.

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TwoBrain Marketing Episode 8: Jenn Markwardt

TwoBrain Marketing Episode 8: Jenn Markwardt

 Two Brain Marketing Episode 8: Jenn Markwardt


Today we are joined by Jenn Markwardt from CrossFit Sandpoint, in Sandpoint Idaho. Jenn started the incubator with over 100 clients already, but she and husband Kenny weren’t making enough money. They were doing all the work, and Jenn was working outside the business.

Today, Jenn and Kenny both work at CrossFit Sandpoint full time. They’ve expanded, bought out two partners, and have dialed their systems enough to open a second location. Here’s how they did it, how they get new leads, and their sales process for new clients.

Don’t Forget about the 2019 Two Brain Summit, June 8-9 in Chicago! This year we have some amazing topics and guests for both yourself and your coaches. Click hereto register and sign up now!





2:20 – Introduction to Jenn Markwardt

6:23 – Working a fulltime job while starting a gym

10:07 – What was the impetus for looking into Two Brain and starting the Incubator

12:02 – What to do when you want more out of your business?

15:07 – What is it that CrossFit Sandpoint Sells and how do you sell a new client

18:15 – The sales process and sales funnels at CrossFit Sandpoint

24:52 – The key to success in owning a gym: playing the long game


Greg:                                          00:02                       Welcome everyone to Two-Brain radio. It is our mission at Two-Brain to provide 1 million entrepreneurs the freedom to live the life that they choose. Join us every week as we discover the very best practices to achieve perfect day and move you closer to wealth.

Announcer:                            00:26                       Everybody hates their insurance company until they need their insurance company. My insurance recommendation is Vaughn Vernon of affiliate guard. Before I get into this story, I want to make it clear here that I don’t get any kickback for recommending Vaughn, but I’ve done it so many times. Whenever anybody online asks the question about insurance companies, I always say affiliate guard. Here’s why. Years ago when we affiliated with crossfit, my insurance company dumped me citing, quote unquote tractor pulls that we were going to be doing, whatever the hell that is. I’ve never pulled a tractor in my life. Um, I’ve driven lots of tractors and I can tell you, I don’t think I could pull one if I wanted it to. But that’s besides the point. At that time, the person who swooped in and saved crossfit gyms in Canada was Joanne Legal. And if you’re in Canada, I recommend talking to her period.

Announcer:                            01:16                       You don’t have to talk to her first. You don’t have to talk to her last. Just talk to her period. If you’re in the states though, I recommend affiliate guard because the program that I get through Joanne and Canada is really, really awesome and all inclusive. Joanne’s personality though is what keeps me with their company in the states. Affiliate guard is run by Vaughn Vernon, a massive personality, a crossfitter, a Jujitsu guy. He drives dirt bikes, he has good looking kids, all that stuff and his policy is the best. It’s really, really tough to tell when you’re reading your policy if the benefits are the same as someone else’s because they obscure stuff on purpose. It’s just like taxes. However, when I’m looking at my policy, I ask myself, will that guy get up in the middle of the night and help me out and this weekend was a great example of Vaughn’s personality.

Announcer:                            02:08                       One of my friends and clients down in Florida had their garage door smashed open, by a Mustang that was doing donuts in the parking lot and they texted me at 6:00 AM on a Sunday and I wanted to help so I texted Vaughn, he’s two hours behind me and he responded right away. Your insurance company is not going to do that. As I said at the start of this, everybody hates their insurance company until they need insurance and when you do need insurance, you want them to answer the damn phone on a Sunday morning and you want to talk to the head man and you just want to know everything’s going to be okay with affiliate guard. It is.

Mateo:                                      02:43                       Hello and welcome to the Two-Brain marketing podcast. I’m your host Mateo Lopez. I’m one of the digital marketing mentors at Two-Brain business. Thank you for joining us and this is going to be your weekly dose of digital marketing magic where every week we’re going to go over marketing campaign strategies, useful tips, updates, keep in the loop and we’ll go over stories from some of our current clients. So you can hopefully learn from them and their experience in navigating the ever changing landscape of advertising on the Internet for Your Business. And in today’s episode we have very special guests, Jen from crossfit Sandpoint and we’re going to learn about her and her business and how she was able to really utilize some of the strategies we, we teach in the course to generate over $7,000 in front end revenue from just a little over 400 bucks in advertising spend. So hello, welcome. Thanks for jumping on. So first question for you, who are you, where you’re from, what’s your business and tell us a little bit about it.

Jen:                                             03:49                       My name is Jen and we opened the gym about seven years ago. Moved here from California. We live in northern Idaho. So almost to Canada.

Mateo:                                      04:02                       I think it’s a pretty big difference.

Jen:                                             04:04                       Uh, yeah, it was a huge difference. We went to school in southern California and then really wanted to start a gym. And doing that in Santa Barbara was just incredibly cost prohibitive. And so we’ve been coming up to northern Idaho for summers and skiing and decided that we wanted to make it our home and seven years later we never left. We love it here and we’ve got a pretty successful business. So I run, my husband runs the programming, the operations, that side of it, and I do the marketing and business development because that’s what my background is.

Mateo:                                      04:38                       That’s awesome. Yeah. What was it? What was it like starting up the gym? It kind of sounds like you upgraded your life and moved to, I mean you had some familiarity with the area since you’ve been going there for vacations and whatnot, but you know, what was that? What was that process like?

Jen:                                             04:54                       It was crazy. We actually didn’t even think we were going to stay in this town. We just hung out at the lake. We’ll just take some time off and then we’ll figure out what our plan is going to be. We’re here. The more we just felt like this is where it’d be drawn to stay. There wasn’t a crossfit gym in town, you know, it’s a tiny town. It’s growing. But when we moved here, there were 7,000 people. So we started looking into, is there another crossfit gym? There wasn’t, but there were these two guys that had like a tiny garage space and it was basically like you press in a key code. They had some, you know, they had a small rigs and some bars, some weights and barbells. And so they were from the community and we said, hey, we’re going to start a crossfit gym and like, what’re you guys like?

Jen:                                             05:39                       We’re going to start a legit gym with coaches and all of those things. Like would you guys be interested in partnering with us? And they said yes. And you know, partnership is tricky and difficult and all those things. But um, it was great because they knew the community and the connections. And so that really helped us get our foot in the door, started a tiny little space and then we moved to a bigger space. And then that was next door. And then we took over the small space again. And, and then three years later I ended up buying them out. And now just on the business, the two of us. So

Mateo:                                      06:09                       Oh, so you moved in next door to them.

Jen:                                             06:12                       So we moved in with them. So we all started the business together and then there was an open space next door that was larger. So as we grew we took that over and moved out of the small space and then like three months later took the small space over it again.

Mateo:                                      06:25                       Wow. That’s awesome. What was it like in those early days trying to run the run the ops yourselves and trying to grow and trying to also live?

Jen:                                             06:36                       It was crazy because, so I obviously we couldn’t both with having two partners also, like it wasn’t going to be possible. So I had a full time corporate job, while Kenny was running the gym. And in those early days he did everything. I mean he was the janitor. She coached 30 classes a week. We did no personal training, no nutrition, nothing. There was nothing extra. It was just him coaching and you know, I would help, I would pop in and help as I could and the nights and the weekends and things like that. I mean we painted every wall in this place. We hung every rig, we put every piece of flooring in, you know all those, all those things. That’s the true blood, sweat and tears. Right. I mean that’s how you build something. Literally six months after we started the gym I got pregnant. So we were also raising our newborn son during all of this too, which is an adventure. But look back on that and see how far we’ve come now.

Mateo:                                      07:37                       cause there are a lot of people who are thinking about opening a business or buying out an existing business. It sounds like you kind of did a hybrid where you, you partnered up with an existing business and then, but also kind of bought them out down the line. So do you have any advice for people who are considering taking on a financial partner or maybe they’re the, they’re the money behind it and they want to take on an operating partner. You have any advice for people who are thinking about doing something like that when starting their business or or maybe even halfway through their businesses lifecycle?

Jen:                                             08:11                       First call us cause we can tell you all the things we did wrong. I don’t think we really didn’t have super clear roles and tasks. So what that meant is that they were making money and Kenny was, we were also making money but we were also doing all the work and things that got tricky where like they wanted him to clock in and out for vacation time and like all these things that you would like going in with good faith in you’re thinking that everybody has each other’s best interests at heart and who really wants to think through like what your day to day is going to look like, what everybody’s piece of that puzzle is going to be. You know, all the things that we do in Two-Brain from like a regular business perspective, you know, apply that to your partnership as well. And I would actually say if you don’t have to take money, don’t like, if you can do it on your own, do it on your own. Takes longer. That’s okay. You know, we ended up spending a lot of money to buy them out, which now it’s totally worth it. We have freedom to run our business, but if we were to look back. I would have probably said we could have probably done it on our own. It would have saved ourselves a lot of hassle and a lot of,

Mateo:                                      09:24                       yeah, I think that those are all great points. I think you take on a partner when you think it’s going to buy you a little bit of speed a little bit faster. But yeah, you definitely have to do the math because you know if you’re going to end up spending that money down the line anyway.

Jen:                                             09:40                       And I will say we had a particularly difficult partner, you know, so know who you’re getting into bed with and I, this sounds so pessimistic, but expect the worst and create a plan based on the worst. And if it goes better than that, then you’re prepared.

Mateo:                                      09:55                       I think that’s good advice. Okay, awesome. So it sounds like Kenny was, was grinding, you had your hands full with your full time job in the newborn. So what was the impetus for looking into Two-Brain and Chris and signing up with the incubator?

Jen:                                             10:19                       Right. We had 150 members. You know, we weren’t making enough money to run the gym, support a full time income and you know, put money away and do all those things. And I think Kenny started to feel like, well this is great but I don’t want to build myself a job. I want to build a company. Right. And so he looked into a couple of different, business mentorship program then settled on Two-Brain with, he actually started the incubator process before I came on board in any real capacity. So Dani was our mentor, she was fantastic. And he actually went through the incubator and then we took a couple months off before we started the growth stage. Cause it’s a lot like he, we didn’t have any extra help at that point. Like, so he was trying to do the whole incubator while still coaching a ton of classes and not having any coaches that were working more than like five shifts a week.

Mateo:                                      11:12                       Yeah, I mean it takes a lot out of the incubator when I went through was just figuring out roles and tasks and hiring people and learning how to delegate. But that takes time. You know, you’re not going to find someone you know right away to start helping you. And even if you do, you know there’s training involved, there’s development and that can take time and everyone’s different where they are in their journey. You know sometimes people already have a staff of five and it’s just re re shifting the mindset of your team or you have no one like it sounds like Kenny and you didn’t have anyone. And so finding that, finding those people who can help and training them up, that all takes time. So it totally makes, especially if you’re the solo operator, to going to take a little while to get through the important work that needs to get done to get you to the next level. So, so it sounds like what, what, what was the next level Kenny was trying to get to? It sounds like you, you know, he felt this kind of dissatisfaction. I know you said that you wanted to build a business, you know, what was he trying to, what next level was he trying to get to?

Jen:                                             12:16                       Yeah, I think all of a sudden it became clear I was working outside of the business. I know, jump in and do the work. Really wanted that guidance of like, let’s just not, let’s not waste our time. Which I think is really the incredible value of what Two-Brain gives, right? From whether it’s marketing or whether it’s the, um, growth program. It’s like, here are the steps. Like, yes, you could figure this out on your own. You could do all this, you could toil away for years. You’re gonna waste a lot more money. Um, and you’re going to get really frustrated. And what do we do? We coach people so we should hire a coach, you know? And it just became really clear that that was the best way to get there the most expeditiously.

Mateo:                                      13:19                       And then what were the changes? I mean it sounds like you were able to grow the business to where you were able to quit your full time job eventually, but what else did you see? What were the changes you saw after going through the process?

Jen:                                             13:30                       Really just our mindset right, of like, and we’re still working on it. Like we’re not 100% there yet. I will say that we are still in the process of giving tasks and roles away, but it was really like what is our time best spent doing and who else can do these other things. And really it comes clear like coaching classes is not the best use of your CEO or your owners time or whatever term you’re using. So really getting a staff with people that could help us with that. Figuring out how to empower people to do their jobs and then step back, right. Processes and procedures and really having, you know, we say like if we get hit by it, both of us get hit by a bus. Like is this business going to run? Is it going to support our child? Like, now I feel confident.

Jen:                                             14:16                       I used to have, I was telling Kenny this the other day, I would have nightmares when I wasn’t involved in the business because I knew nothing. And I would think like, what happened? Like what happens if Kenny gets sick? You know? I mean, his dad died young. So that’s just a reality for us. We think about it all the time. It was like, I know nothing. Like I don’t know the books, I don’t know how to coach. I don’t know how to write programming. You know? I, it was like this business, if you were to go like would not, it would be dead. So I think that was the impetus for us to really say like, we got to create something that is beyond us.

Mateo:                                      14:51                       Yeah. That’s amazing. And I think that’s the true test, right? It’s like, can you, can you leave, can you step away from your business totally for two weeks and it not burn down. Um, and it sounds like you were able to really get to that point, which is awesome. And so I want to talk a little bit about your growth after having done some of the work in the marketing section of the incubator. Before I do that, in your own words, what is, what is it that you sell and how do you sell it?

Jen:                                             15:23                       stronger and live the best life that you can and we do that through personal training, nutrition and group classes. But what we really provided,

Mateo:                                      15:34                       wow, that might be the most concise, most thought out answer yet.

Jen:                                             15:41                       Yeah, no, it was pretty. That was pretty on point there. I love it. Okay, now, yeah, but let’s talk about that. Let’s get into the nitty gritty. So how you generate the interest to sell that, right. How do you, how do you get people in the door and then once they are coming through, once they have inquired, how do you end up selling them?

Jen:                                             16:02                       So, I mean, I think before taking the marketing course, it was basically affinity marketing. I mean we did Facebook posts every once in a while it’d be like, oh we did. I’ve always been super interested in the digital market. It felt like I remember talking to you. And so I was always like really overwhelmed and I didn’t know where to start. Um, so when we started the Two-Brain course I feel like it just gave us this really actionable roadmap of exactly what to do. And then it went from being like, oh we get a no sweat intro here and then no sweat intro there to like a consistent stream of leads and people in the door. I will say that they are not all quality, right? Yeah. Some of them suck. But I think it really helped hone my skills and learn how to handle objections, which it always like I can talk to anybody, but when it, when it came to like making the sale and asking for that, I let in Kenny too, we’d let so many people walk out the door, you know? And I think going through that course really helped me understand like how important it is. Like if someone’s taking that step to get in the door, like they want to change, you have to show them how to get there. And I think when we started taking the approach of like it’s prescriptive rather than salesy, it feels so much better. I know I kind of hopped around there, I’m not sure if that’s the answer.

Mateo:                                      17:34                       No, that’s great. And so I think you’re bringing up some good points. You know, when you pay traffic and generating leads in that way can be totally different than someone who’s referred, right? If someone who’s referred that you’re a current member who referred their friend, they, they’ve done half the selling for you already, right? When you have, when you put an ad out, it’s going to take a little bit more work on our end. But we can’t control referrals like this paid ads. Like we can control that. So I think that that’s the trade off. And uh, and I think it’s ultimately worth it. And I think you’ve, you’ve seen that too with your campaigns. And so when someone inquires, what happens?

Jen:                                             18:27                       Actually we didn’t really have, and so we actually made the decision because we were so busy, we just signed up with UpLaunch because they’ve got that dialed. It got it. We don’t, I don’t have to set up a text messaging and Zapier and all that. I can just have them do the whole thing. So, um, when someone inquires they get a text message and an email. Initially, you know, I’ve been working with like a little bit, so we’ve been playing around with how involved I am in that initial process. Usually I’ll, if they respond to a text message, then that’s when I will start to engage in the process. We don’t have a sales manager yet, so when we do, I’ll probably have that person reach out via phone. Then it would be a phone call. Right now we just don’t have the capacity to do that.

Jen:                                             19:14                       So they get text message, uh, usually, you know, if they don’t sign up for a no sweat, then I will reach out to them and try and get them to do that. But the automation helps just make that happen, which is really nice. And then they book a no sweat intro and then they will, then we’ll send them, we send a confirmation text message 24 hours before where they have to reply. Yes. That has helped. You know, there’s been a lot of talk in the group about no shows and I cannot recommend that enough. It’s like cut our no shows down by like 75% probably.

Mateo:                                      19:49                       Wow. It’s like the simplest.

Jen:                                             19:55                       thanks. You know, and we’re at a speed where the spot right now, while we’re getting pretty full, so I’m at a spot where it’s like I just want somebody that really wants to be in here and if they don’t, that’s okay. Maybe they’ll be ready down the road and we’ll continue to foster that relationship through emails and texts and all those things. I’m not, I don’t have the time to chase down 25 people a week, you know? So I want them to take that, like if they’re going to take the step to get in here, they’re more likely to show up to classes and they’re more likely to stay longer.

Mateo:                                      20:29                       Totally. And so let’s say they come in through the door. What happens?

Jen:                                             20:34                       Uh, so generally I talk with them and then I will give them a tour of the gym.

Mateo:                                      20:43                       Wow. Fancy.

Jen:                                             20:45                       A little Keurig machine. It’s not bad. I like it. But you could see it’s not fancy at all. Um, but it’s, I think that’s just like a nice step of like, Hey, can I get you a cup of coffee? I’ve had two people say yes over the years, but it’s just a way of kind of breaking the tension and then we just take a quick tour of the gym and I literally just stand in one of the rooms and kind of see, I don’t get too fancy about it. I just, that’s not really what they care about. I just want them to, yeah, I wasn’t showing people the gym and then I’d like get ready to sign somebody up and they’d be like, well, can I see the gym? And then we do that and it was weird to get them back to the desk. So I’ve just started doing that.

Mateo:                                      21:24                       Yeah, I love that. If that’s, if that’s an objection, the objection that’s overcome that at the beginning. So I like that.

Jen:                                             21:33                       Yeah, this is the gym. If you think it’s too like raw or whatever, then then it’s not going to work anyway. So and then we just sit down and we’d go through the No Sweat Intro form, you know? And I really think that’s one thing that I changed a lot is I go through every single one of those. If I think somebody who’s like kind of a halfway sold, you know, if somebody is like they walk in the door, I have crossed that experience and ready to get this done. I’ll still go through some of them, but I might not ask all the questions about like envision your life in five years or you know, those ones. So I tailor it a little bit, but for the most part I stick to that form because it opens up so much opportunity to sell and to create a plan that’s right for that person. Someone may walk in the door saying they want group classes and then have that conversation and actually their goals won’t work at all with group classes. And they definitely need to do personal training to make it work.

Mateo:                                      22:27                       Oh you guys have a private office for this too?

Jen:                                             22:29                       Well I have a private office. We have two private offices, which is great actually. So one is on the floor, but no one can walk in and out of the office. So it’s like not our front office. So I’ll use that like during a really busy times. Cause I know some of these going to walk in the front door or if it’s kind of on our off hours and I’ll use our bigger office. So the flexibility.

Mateo:                                      22:48                       Nice. So what I love about that, that first part is that you’ve given them something. And I think people, people can do that even if it’s just a bottle of water or something small. But giving them something that, it kind of establishes that reciprocity principle where you know you’re setting the stage and setting the tone, you’re offering them something. And now there may be, you know, it just, it’s kind of like sales one oh one. You know, you want to get that reciprocity thing going so that they’re feeling more inclined to offer something else in return, which I think is awesome. And I love how you have a separate place that’s quiet and you don’t have loud music and clanging and banging going on or you can have a conversation cause that’s really what it is. You’re having a conversation, which I think the prescriptive model helps you do and taking the No Sweat Intro approach helps you do?

Jen:                                             23:37                       Yeah, a lot of clients are really anxious about coming into a gym. Intimidated, intimidated by dropping weights. If they see somebody, like my 4:30 class is really athletes, right? Like if a 70 year old comes in and wants to get started, they’re probably not going to be in that class anyways. But they see that they’re going to feel like this is not the right spot for them. So I just think just being really cognizant about like how much you’re showing people, not in a bad way, just like you want to make them, you know that you’re going to create a good environment for them once they’re in the door, and I’m not going to suggest that 4:30 class to that person, but they might see it and think, well, every class is that way.

Mateo:                                      24:21                       Yeah. Regardless of how amazing your community is, the sleeve tattoos and jacked people are still like, it’s an intimidating experience regardless, you know? So you’ve come a long way, right? You went from this point where Kenny was doing wearing all the hats and the business was really only supporting him to this point where you’re able to take over multiple locations, expand your space, expand your business, pave the way to have and support a larger staff yourself included and buy out your old partners. What do you think has been the key to your success so far?

Jen:                                             24:55                       It sounds so cliche, but playing the long game and it’s so hard as a business owner, I want to be able to do the things that I think it’s really easy to take shortcuts, but for us it’s just been like one step at a time, play the long game, I know what the year looks like and I’m in a plan that something’s going to take a year. So kind of always over planning and then hoping that it goes a little bit and then taking risks. You know like when I left my job I made a great salary, big chunk of what we were living off of and so it was really scary and I just kind of had it and said, we’re just going to quit my job, actually let me go part time and then transition out. And that was really scary. But it also lit fire under us to say, this has to happen, like we have to do this. And so I think putting yourself in a little bit of an uncomfortable position and knowing that that is going to, to do the work and make the change.

Mateo:                                      26:04                       I think we’re done. Thank you so much for coming on. And then, uh, hopefully are you going to the summit? The summit.

Jen:                                             26:12                       We have a wedding to go to our former business partner is getting married. Next year for sure.

Mateo:                                      26:19                       Awesome. Well thanks for hopping on and uh, we’ll, we’re looking forward to seeing what the next year holds for you.

Jen:                                             26:25                       Thanks for all your help.

Speaker 5:                               26:28                       No worries. Hey everyone. Chris Cooper here on really thrilled to see you this year in June in Chicago at the 2019 Two-Brain summit. Every year we have two separate speaking tracks. There’s one for you, the business owner and there’s one for coaches that will help them make better, longer, more meaningful careers under the umbrella of your business. This year we’ve got some pretty amazing topics like the client success manager, how to change your life, organizational culture of the business owner’s life cycle, how to have breaks, how to have vacations, how to help your marriage survive, owning a business and motivation and leadership. How to convert more clients, how to create a GM position that runs your gym for you and leaves you free to grow your business. How to start a business owner’s group in your community and more point here is to do the right thing that will help gym owners create better businesses that will last them for the long term, get them to tinker phase, help them be more successful, create meaningful careers with their coaches and give their clients a meaningful path to longterm health. We only do one big seminar every year and that’s the Two-Brain summit and the reason that we do that is because a big part of the benefit is getting the Two-Brain community together and welcoming strangers into our midst and showing them how amazing gym ownership really can be. We’ll have a link to the Two-Brain summit including a full list of all speakers and topics on both the owners and the coaches side in the show notes. I really hope to see you there.

Greg:                                          27:57                       As always, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. We greatly appreciate you and everyone that has subscribed to us. If you haven’t done that, please make sure you do drop a link to that episode. Share with a friend and if you haven’t already, please write us a review and rate us on how what you think. If you hated it, let us know if you loved it, even better. See you guys later.



This is our NEW podcast, Two-Brain Marketing, where we’ll focus on sales and digital marketing. Your host is Mateo Lopez!

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Episode 166: Protecting Yourself from Lawsuits, with Rachel Brenke

Episode 166: Protecting Yourself from Lawsuits, with Rachel Brenke

You just got THE LETTER.

You found a great picture on Google and used it on your website. And now you’re getting sued.

Or maybe you’re the one who wants to litigate: a coach left your box, she’s emailing all your members, and you want to drop the hammer.

What’s your first step? Rachel has the answers in this episode.

Don’t Forget about the 2019 Two Brain Summit, June 8-9 in Chicago! This year we have some amazing topics and guests for both yourself and your coaches. Click hereto register and sign up now!





3:00 – Introduction to Rachel Brenke

7:44 – How Rachel manages life, business, and fitness

9:20 – The legal specialties that fitness professionals need help with. 

11:24 – How can business owners protect their CrossFit gym’s brand?

19:44 – Should you be trademarking everything you make?

29:22 – How to handle with other employees and clients taking photos

35:10 – Dealing with copyright transfers within your business

37:20 – Using pictures from the internet on your website and in your business

41:50 – How to handle someone pursuing legal action against you?

45:10 – What to do if a former employee steals your intellectual property?

54:40 – How to reach Rachel?

Announcer:                            00:02                       Welcome everyone to Two-Brain Radio. It is our mission at Two-Brain to provide 1 million entrepreneurs the freedom to live the life that they choose. Join us every week as we discover the very best practices to achieve perfect day and move you closer to wealth.

Announcer:                            00:26                       Debt is a tricky subject in our world. We’ve been taught by HQ to avoid debt, to accumulate cash and then when we’ve got enough money to spend it, but in the business world, the reality is that there’s good debt and there’s bad debt. Good debt creates an asset. There’s also something called opportunity cost. Meaning if you wait until you can afford something, it probably never will be able to afford it and you’ll be missing a ton of opportunity. In the meantime, let’s say for example that you were bursting at the seams and your clients couldn’t attend the 6:00 PM class anymore because there was a waiting list, so they started canceling their memberships. You’re missing an opportunity cost here. The opportunity to keep your current clients because if they’re paying for a membership and they can’t attend, they’re not going to keep that membership for law, so you’re looking to expand and so you’re going to have to take on some debt or you’re going to wait until you have the $10,000 or whatever that amount is to buy the new equipment.

Announcer:                            01:23                       You can keep turning new clients away while you wait and try and accumulate this money or you can leverage the capital through guys like Rigquipment. Rigquipment is a partner that we chose at Two-Brain business because their commitment to crossfit and their commitment to helping first has been proven over several years. I got to admit, I shy away a lot from money people. It’s intimidating to work with people who understand money and finance better than I do. I’m sure you feel the same way, but these guys have shown up time and time again. They’ve offered free help. They’ve turned down business a lot of times because they aren’t sure if the person has a good working business model and to be honest, they’ve sent people to us and let us turn them down for them because they wanted to know if this person’s plan was going to work before they expanded, before you start out.

Announcer:                            02:15                       It’s super important that you know what you’re getting into, that you have a plan to pay back the debt. You must have a plan to increase cash flow that you’re going to do based on new purchase. Rigquipment has a great tool. If you go to their site you can figure out if you can afford that expansion, should you be buying that new rig or should you be investing in something else like mentorship. These guys will even finance the Two-Brain business incubator phase if you purchase it with your equipment because they understand that the incubator makes your business more viable, it’s less of a risk for them. I love working with clay and Joe from Rigquipment because these guys understand what our service in life is and that matches their service.

Greg:                                          02:59                       All right. I’m here with Rachel Brenke. She is an IP lawyer and has many, many amazing things to talk about and I can’t wait to dig in to them. Welcome to Two-Brain radio, Rachel,

Rachel:                                      03:10                       Thanks for having me.

Greg:                                          03:12                       Happy to. So let’s kind of start from the beginning. What kind of led you into wanting, I guess, wanting to become a lawyer and an attorney and kind of what has led you into the crossfit realm or the gym realm of, of, of legal work.

Rachel:                                      03:26                       Yeah, so I always cringe when people start off calling me a lawyer because I’m afraid, you know, the audience is gonna be like, ah, boring, don’t want to listen to this. But, uh, cause I didn’t come into entrepreneurship intending to be a lawyer. In fact, it was really interesting how it’s all taken a turn. Uh, but well there is a long story that I’ll give you. The short version of it is that I kind of always knew that I didn’t fit into a box. Um, as many entrepreneurs probably look back and go, ah, make sense, how I never really enjoyed x job or this in school or not. And so when I ended up being diagnosed with cancer at the age of 28, it really revealed to me and I was in the midst of beginning entrepreneurship then, but it really was revealed to me that I didn’t want to work in, do my life to fill someone else’s pockets and fulfill somebody else’s dreams.

Rachel:                                      04:16                       And so, um, I had made some goals two major goals that came out of having the cancer. And the first one wants to be as present for my family if I survived, right. Um, to be as present for my family as much as I could. And then the other was to fulfill my own goals and dreams and not somebody else’s. And so during that time I was doing a little bit of kind of business consulting on the side, if you will. Let me give you a little context. So I came in doing a online apparel store, which is so funny cause I’m not fashionable whatsoever, but it was kind of one of these print on demand companies. I knew enough of graphic design type work and it was something I could do from home while I was recovering from the cancer and that sort of stuff.

Rachel:                                      04:59                       And, but people were asking me questions all the time about how do you set up a business? How do you do this? How do x, Y and z? Because at the time that this was occurring, it’s going to date me a little bit. I’m not even sure that my space was really even fully off the ground. Um, there was not this freemium model of information like we have these days. You know, you really, you had to pay to play, you had to pay to get information. And so as I threw myself into research, because it wasn’t readily available, people were starting to ask me questions and I thought, Huh, there’s something here that I could also help others obtain the same goals as to what I’m doing, being able to fulfill my own goals and be around for their families, you know, be as present as possible.

Rachel:                                      05:38                       And so we just kind of evolved from there into working with other people, learning, you know, doing business consulting as my apparel store took off. Um, I ended up moving into owning coworking spaces and a photography studio. And just through that whole process I realized, you know, I really enjoy the business side of things. I really enjoy helping people with their businesses and I guess going to law school, it’d be a great way to add some value. And I came out the other side and that’s why I’ve created these legal niche blogs that I have now. They, I have a general podcast that talks to general entrepreneurs on legal marketing and business stuff. But I have found that there’s some very specific industries such as crossfit or just, um, fitness professionals. And gyms that really needs specific niche info help. And so that’s kind of how I have developed multiple very successful legal niche blogs in these very kind of, um, I won’t say small industries because the fitness industry is massive, but a very narrowed focus.

Rachel:                                      06:44                       So it’s not just like general legal information, it’s out there. It’s very tailored to what you guys need to know. Full disclosure, I don’t own a gym. I go to a gym and I’m an athlete myself. I also compete with team USA for triathlons and I am big into lifting weights as well. So I don’t necessarily have the perspective of the crossfit gym, but I all, I can combine my entrepreneurial approach. I know what entrepreneurs are going through. I can combine my business consulting and lawyers skills and also tell you kind of what the push backs or objections, the actions that you may take that you think are protecting your business, but kind of how they’d be perceived or how they would impact the athletes that are in your gym. And so I kind of combine all of that into a brand called fitlegally. And here we are.

Greg:                                          07:31                       Wow. I mean, I knew the end piece. I, uh, never got to dig in with you about, I mean the whole beginning. So I mean starting so many different businesses or, or owning so many different businesses and deciding that, hey, you want to go the legal route and, and start actually pursuing education side of that. What was that like? I mean, I can only imagine I’m not only dealing with, with cancer and dealing with all these businesses and business decisions on top of that, but then after getting through all of that and it doesn’t even seem like you took a break.

Rachel:                                      08:05                       No. Well, you know what’s interesting is I, it sounds very overwhelming, but you have to consider this is like 14, 15 years in the making, right? I didn’t just wake up and have all of this one day. It’s been very incremental and I really, especially if you’re one of those that are listening, you’re thinking, oh, I would love to have multiple gyms, or maybe I also want to delve into other entrepreneurship. The only way that I’ve been able to do multiple things is to really nail down efficient and good workflows and automate them as much as possible. And then recreating that again when you build the next business that you’re doing, you know, no need to start all over. And I think that is one of the things that once you kind of figure out your business style, what you need to do, um, the, the uphill climb, right? The what you’re learning, what you need to do is a shorter trip. I’m trying to think what the, what the phrase, and I’m, I’m trying to think of that. You essentially can take the same information and apply it across different types of businesses. And so learning curve, that’s where I’m looking for it. So your learning curve is relatively small and you can get new businesses and new ventures set up very quickly.

Greg:                                          09:13                       That makes sense. That makes complete sense. So it just allows you to streamline basically, like you said, with the learning curve for streamlining it. So, I mean you have so many different things going on right now in, and let’s kind of tailor this more towards the legal aspects of businesses and is there any kind of specialties that you really kind of dive into? For businesses are gym owners. from a legal point of view.

Rachel:                                      09:36                       Yeah. One of the fears that I had myself, and I still have this as an entrepreneur, what if I spend all my time and energy? Because you do take time away from yourself. You take time away from your family and just away from life to build a business. But what if I spend all this time, energy doing that only for it to be ripped out from under me. Maybe one day I wake up and I don’t have customers or somebody else comes in and they monopolize, you know, they capitalize the market and take it away from me. Or, and this is how I really determined the type of business law that I wanted to go into was what happens if someone comes in and they steal my ideas, they take my brand or they ride on my coattails. And so for me, intellectual property is the area of law that every single business owner has.

Rachel:                                      10:21                       If you have a business name, you have intellectual property, right? So if you’re sitting there thinking, Oh I don’t know what IP or intellectual property is, you got a business name, you probably have a logo, you have marketing materials, all of that is your brand that you’re putting out. That is all intellectual property. It is property in your business that you want to be yours, that you are creating connections with your potential members through other businesses through. And so protecting that is super important. Knowing the differences between copyrights, trademarks. And then we can even drill that down into things such as how do I safeguard employees or coaches taking my ideas or customer list when they leave? You know, cause it’s not necessarily if they leave, it’s when they leave. Nothing is forever. And so it’s putting all these safeguards in place. Cause again, what’s the point in building at all if you’re not even going to protect it?

Greg:                                          11:13                       Agreed. And let’s, let’s kind of go down this road a little bit with, I mean I like what you said with that, that IP is really, I mean if you have a business, if you have a logo and those kinds of things. Now with that, I mean how can people protect themselves if they do? If they do say, let’s say I have unknown element or crossfit unknown element in Clovis, New Mexico and somebody decides to open up another fitness chain, even in the same city or maybe a different city with the same name of unknown element in it. What are the things that I should probably take advantage of or take leverage on a if that happens?

Rachel:                                      11:48                       Yeah, so before I dig into that, let me just say the analogy that I’m going to use and the recommendations not taken into consideration. The license of use for the name crossfit that you guys have, right? That’s IP, right? Their licensing IP that HQ crossfit headquarters is licensing, licensing that to you guys to use, but it’s those other parts of what you’re talking about here. If you have a name that’s appended to that so you can differentiate yourself from other crossfit gyms, you know, drilling down into business names can be overwhelming and I hate when I see, and I, I use the word hate because I do have such a visceral reaction to the fear that someone may lose their brand simply because they used the wrong name. Let me give you an example. Let’s say you just pick a random name that you want to append to the end of the crossfit.

Rachel:                                      12:37                       You set up a gym, you invest all this money into marketing a logo, et cetera. Well, if you haven’t taken the proper steps or anything to check to see if someone else has a same or substantially similar name, so it’s same or substantially similar, then you’re looking at potential trademark issues. Trademarks are typically business names, logos and slogans. It’s things like, when I say the phrase, just do it. What do you think of Nike? It’s identifying a source indicator, which is why it’s really important that we check to make sure that we’re not using someone else’s name. If you’re riding on their coattails or confusing consumers or when you, like the example you gave me, if somebody moves into an area and he’s using something same or similar, you want to take the steps that you need to do, which I’ll walk through here in a second, but you want to take the steps to preserve your name that you’re using.

Rachel:                                      13:28                       So if you’re on the end where you’re looking at getting yourself set up, make sure you do the proper searches. Trademarks, that’s the key word here for a business name. These are typically done at the federal level. There is state level. I’m searching, but I always recommend that if you have a business name, you’re looking and moving into the area, you want to go do a search. I almost always recommend that you start with going to, it’s the US patent and trademark office, USPTO.Gov and searching there for anything same or similar, right? That they’re also offering the same or similar products or services as you. So if someone moves into town with a similar name but they are, they offer something completely different than you do, it’s probably not going to be an infringing issue cause it’s not causing confusion.

Rachel:                                      14:11                       Let’s take for example like United Airlines, they provide airline services. Then you have United moving vans, they provide moving services. The consumer’s typically not going to get confused by those, so they both can use the term or the name United without there being a problem. Now, like in your example, well let me get back to that in a second. I kind of want to give you guys a couple of steps. If you’re on this set up, start with the also just start googling and check social media handles because where’s the first place that we go when we think, oh, I’ve gotta have a great business name I want to use. You got to look to see if the social media handles or the URL are available. Right, right. So that’s a good place and actually maybe that should be number one here on the list.

Rachel:                                      14:55                       Go there first because if somebody has been using it, even if they don’t have a trademark, they may have rights in that which in this situation you didn’t define to me whether or not this crossfit gym has a trademark or not. The good thing is even if they haven’t taken the steps to trademark, they may still have rights to stop that other gym from using the same or similar name. So checking social media and Google, but don’t rely on Google because not every one’s search engine optimization is good. A lot of people suck at it, right? So don’t rely on that. Check the USPTO. Then also check your local business formation systems are typically through like secretary of state or something. You’re going to see like what their LLC or the corporation name is, but don’t rely upon that because those are only state specific.

Rachel:                                      15:37                       Not everyone even takes the steps, become an LLC or a corporation, but those are quick steps to make sure that you are not going to be infringing on someone else’s. Now in this case, obviously this, gym didn’t take those steps right or they just said whatever, we’re going to move into town with the same or similar name offer also crossfit, and then you’re going, ah, what do I do now you, it’s kind of like a choose your own path here. If you have a trademark, you are forced, not really forced, but you should want to do it anyways. You’re required to do what’s called policing. So you would want to send a cease and desist and take the steps that you need to stop this person. But the way I look at is even if you haven’t taken the steps to trademark, which I know a lot of businesses haven’t done, and if we want to hear in a bit, we can talk about at what point should someone consider doing that.

Rachel:                                      16:25                       But if you haven’t taken the steps to get a federal trademark, that’s okay. Don’t freak out. If you run into this problem where somebody comes into your town, you still can do a cease and desist because you may have priority rights. They are still priority common law rights that exist. You just don’t have the full backing of the trademark system behind you because you don’t have a registered trademark. So for me, now, this is where I’m probably a little different than most lawyers, is that I wouldn’t necessarily rush to all of a sudden getting a formal cease and desist. I would stop for a second, do so once called evidence gathering, you know, screenshots, take a look at what’s confusing people. What’s the deal? Right? Are they really the same or similar name? Are they really offering the same or similar products and services or people being confused?

Rachel:                                      17:09                       What is the status in the situation? That sounds like common sense, right? But I’ll have people who come to me and go, oh, I got hit. Someone said I was infringing, and then it’s an issue like what the, between United Airlines, United moving pants, they’re not actually providing the same type of products or services. And that doesn’t really, there’s no sense in even going down that path. So do that evidence gathering and then you can determine not an, if you still probably should go talk to a lawyer. The reason I’m kind of tripping over my words here is because I’m not one of those lawyers that rushes to let’s send a strong cease and desist, beat them over the head. And I think this is where my entrepreneur role comes in, is that I know there’s so many of you out there, they don’t understand this. Some of are probably listening to this going, oh my God, I don’t know anything she just said she talks really fast, which you guys can slow this down and relisten to it.

Rachel:                                      17:57                       So don’t freak out if you don’t know what to do or you don’t know. You know what we’re talking about here. And so because I have that mindset that really might make a difference on how I would approach that other businesses in town, maybe you can approach them and say, hey, didn’t you know that I’m already in town? It really would be good for you to change. So we’re not confused by consumers, blah, blah blah. Or You could just take the path of hiring a lawyer. I do think it’s always best to have a lawyer evaluate the situation and determine which is the best course of action. Because if someone comes out guns blazing, you know they’re gunning for your brand, you know, they’re gunning for your people, you’re probably gonna want to use a lawyer to be, you know, because once we get involved, people listen, right?

Rachel:                                      18:38                       Um, it’s easier for someone to brush just a local business owner off. But I also don’t want you guys to jumping and hiring a lawyer, spending all the money and sending a letter. Cause once lawyers get involved, it puts gas on the fire and maybe you’ve potentially closed off a potential business network in town. Um, maybe you could end up being a mentor to this other gym. So bottom line with that is always step back and see, okay, am I registered then yes I have to do something about this here. I definitely need to talk to a lawyer. Actually talk to a lawyer. Either path, even if you’re registered or not with your trademark and then talk to a lawyer and determine how do we want to approach this. Do we want to be total hard ass and send them a letter or do we want to take more of an education approach and that will just be a conversation needed to have with your attorney and just inwardly kind of consider what do I want to do for my business? Because also your brands on the line as well here, even when you are defending your brand, you also your brands on the line with how you interact with local business owners

Greg:                                          19:36                       and that makes sense. I mean not trying to burn bridges prior to unless it’s necessary. Basically it unless it’s, it’s something that, as you said, if your trademark now is, should I be trademarking everything? I mean I make, I mean my not only my logo, but I mean what are the things that as a gym owner, as a business owner, I should be trademarking? And what’s kind of the process? What are the costs behind it? If you know of any of those. So that people out there that are listening that are like, you know what, I’m going to trademark my logo and my name. What are the things that are the they’re going to need to know?

Rachel:                                      20:09                       So I jumped the gun a little bit here and we kind of fell down into this path of talking about trademarks before we really define intellectual property. And the two main types of intellectual property that are applicable to almost everyone that’s going to listen here are copyrights and trademarks. Copyrights protect the actual item itself. So if you guys are taking photographs to promote your gym, the blog posts and social media posts, your writing, even your logo is can protect the actual creative expression that is fixed in a fixed, tangible, medium, medium that I think, well, I’ll come back to that. That’s one type. What we’ve been talking about so far is really protection of the brand itself as a source indicator. Term of art. Don’t really need to worry about that, but kind of think of it this way. When I gave you the example of just do it, I want you to mentally imagine that I tied a string around the Nike swoosh or the just do it phrase and take the string.

Rachel:                                      21:01                       What are you connecting it to? Nike, because that’s a source indicator. It’s letting consumers know when they see your logo or your business name or your slogan, and those are the typically the three types, what it’s connected to. So the difference between the copyright and trademark is that trademark is connecting the connection between your logo and your gym or Your Business Name and your gym. Whereas copyright, you’re protecting the actual design, the actual creative expression. Here’s total brain exploding. You could have copyright and trademark both on your logo. Again, it would be the protection of the actual logo design. And then the other one is the source indicators. So to answer your questions, I gave that little crash course in IP that actually, you know what, you guys know more than most lawyers that are out there because unless you really seek out intellectual property in law school, you’re not really taught it.

Rachel:                                      21:52                       Um, it’s not one of the general core legal things that we’re required to learn because it’s not on any of the state bars that I’m aware of. Um, so when should you be mindful of this? You guys should be mindful of knowing that you have all these things. Everything that I’ve listed, you have a logo, you have a business name, you have photographs, you have blog posts, you have all this stuff, right? And so what my suggestion would be on the trademark side of things, that is the source indicator that your business name and your logos, I would pursue it fairly quickly in your business, at least within the first year, if not sooner, because we want to be able to have the full protection of the law that’s available to us. Now. Trademarks themselves can be very costly. As you heard me use the terms of art throughout it’s same or substantially similar business name connected to a same or similar products or services?

Rachel:                                      22:49                       The threshold, again, like we mentioned before, is that we just want to make sure that consumers are not confused. Just like United moving vans, United Airlines, you’re not confused. I don’t think United Airlines is providing any moving services. Um, maybe, I mean I guess you could make the argument they put stuff under the plane, but they’re not going to be driving an airplane down I 95. I just know that they’re not moving my household goods that way. All right. Right now we’re going to see it on the news. But um, so, so my suggestion would be as quick as possible into your business to see about getting a trademark because you want to like in the example you gave, you gave, I kind of the second you gave me that example, I thought visually in my mind about the gym or in the box and I had a radius in my mind. I don’t want somebody within a certain radius of me competing with me when I offered the same or similar products or services, especially if consumers

Rachel:                                      23:46                       are going to get confused by the name. Why is that? I don’t want to waste my time on marketing. I don’t want them to have a bad reputation and they get imparted upon me because maybe they’re unprofessional or their gym sucks or you know, you just, you want to be you, you want to focus on you in the marketing cause then you can control the narrative. Well if you don’t have a trademark in place, it becomes a lot harder to control that narrative. So let’s take that mental image that I just gave a pin in the map. Here’s your gym right here. We have a radius. If I don’t take a step to get a federal trademark registered, I really only have, and this is a gray area in the law right now, but I really only have common law rights within maybe that city.

Rachel:                                      24:29                       So that might work for the example that you gave me. I might be able to stop somebody from use of the same name, but let’s say that they’re in New Mexico and I’m up here in Virginia. I open up a gym, I’m offering the same products or services. I have a very similar logo, I the exact same business name. What’s going to happen, let’s circle back to what we talked about before. Where’s the number one place that people go when they’re looking to set up their business, social media and Google. So let’s ask the question. Where’s the number one place that your potential numbers are going to go? Social media or a website and you just like the example that you don’t want somebody in town, their reputation being imparted on you or consumers getting confused, thinking that you’re, you’re owned by the same business and so no big deal.

Rachel:                                      25:15                       We’ll go to this other one. You don’t want the same thing from my Virginia one to your New Mexico, gym, maybe I’m up here doing some shady stuff. You don’t want it imparted upon you. So if you had a federal trademark, you can preserve your reputation, preserve your brand in New Mexico. But if you haven’t taken the steps to register it, you don’t really have much of any force in the law to stop me up in Virginia from tarnishing your reputation. And is that because I’m running around talking about you, I just may be using the same or similar name and I run a really bad business. Right? And that’s going to creep out onto the web. So that’s just one example of many that why I find it really important that taking the steps to be federally registered and doing it as soon as possible because the benefits to that, just like I showed you, you can reach all across the United States.

Rachel:                                      26:02                       You also, when you have to take the steps to stop someone from infringing, you can potentially receive damages, which could be the amount of money that I made and memberships in the time that I used your mark. Right? Cause I’m riding on your coattail. I’m benefiting from it. So why should I as the infringing party benefit monetarily benefit from that? One of the damages could be if you have a federal registered mark that I have to pay you any profits that I major in that time. You also can get injunctions to stop me. And also if it’s registered then there’s a high chance for attorney’s fees so you’re not going at it. Whereas if you don’t have a registration, you’re kind of on your own, you to pay for attorneys. And I’m going to tell you right now IP attorneys, because there’s not very many of us, we know it when you charge a pretty penny for it.

Rachel:                                      26:51                       So there’s so many benefits to federally registering that you should do it in the first year. Now I’m going to give you the numbers. I wanted to share all the benefits first before I gave the numbers on it because it can be a little bit of a sticker shock. But also I don’t want you guys to necessarily run out iandn DIY this simply because I’ve convinced you that this is a good step to take doing a federal mark. They do it by classifications. So like the example I just gave you, let’s take my business name and I want to connect it to fitness gym. That would be one classification and other classification you can even narrow that down is to like yoga specific classes, weight training classes, you know they have a whole plethora of things that you can choose from. When you go to register, you have to pay per class.

Rachel:                                      27:34                       So the government themselves, right now it’s 2019 march, just in case you guys are listening to this later, I believe it’s $225 per class, which really is a nominal investment. Be able to stop someone else from riding on your brand right now. Obviously it will cost more than that to have an attorney do it, but I definitely don’t recommend DIY and trademark applications because if you screw it up, they can reject you. They being the USPTO and you either have to start all over or you can be stopped from ever getting a registration for it in the future. And all of these benefits I just mentioned, we don’t want to lose that. You guys have put the time and energy and effort into building a reputation. So, um, bottom line on that, do it as soon as you guys can, when you get into business, even if, and this is the big objection, even if you don’t know if you’re going to make it right, because here’s the thing I’m going to tell you, I fell into that in the very beginning. I was like, oh, I don’t have a lot of money. I’d rather put that towards more marketing or Facebook ads and I just don’t know if I’m going to hack into this thing. Guys. 10 years goes by like that and then all of a sudden you have somebody’s infringing. Well, you’re back to having to enforce it without any of those federal protections, it’s not worth it. The minimal investment is well, well worth the steps to get protected.

Greg:                                          28:52                       Oh, completely. And I’ll tell you right now, that is exactly what I’m going to do now for, uh, for my business and brand because I’ve yet to a trademark. It’s so by the time this comes out here, everyone will see that mine is definitely trademarked.

Rachel:                                      29:04                       So the process takes a while. So it’s not like you just go and register and you get it today. It can take up to nine months for them to approve it depending, while I say nine months, it depends on at the time that you listen to this because it’s the government they take forever.

Greg:                                          29:18                       Very true. Very true. Now let’s say I, I’m, I’m running classes and I decide, hey, one of my members is a photographer or videographer. I have them come in and I have them take pictures. Is there any kind of legal documentation I should probably have now? Not from the member side because anyone listening that has their members sign a waiver should definitely have a photo release and video release in there and always ask for them either way, say, hey, we’re going to do this and make sure people feel comfortable with it because I do have, I have a full class that doesn’t and it’s our full program better yet that a, they just prefer not to. There’s only a few of them in it right now, but they just don’t want their pictures taken so it’s okay. But let’s say I bring somebody in. What kind of legal documentation or what, what kind of things should I hash out prior to them coming in and taking video or pictures to make sure that when I use them I’m in the free and clear.

Rachel:                                      30:09                       Yeah, so I’m glad you differentiated that. So the model release is what Greg was talking about and that’s just going to be the permission from your members giving permission to utilize their face is their publicity rights and marketing. Now Greg’s asking me about, you either hire someone to come in or it can be members that take photographs while they’re in the gym themselves. Neither of those individuals probably works for the gym on a full time or a W2 employee basis. Right? So and that’s really important. Anytime you guys had intellectual property, like we’re talking about here, Greg is getting at photographs, it can be photographs, it can be your logo created, anything like that. Any time someone creates something for your business, you have to first ask yourself or are they an independent contractor or do they work For me as an employee, and we can go down the path of talking about the differences that here in a minute, but the reason the status is important is because let’s say Greg works for me.

Rachel:                                      31:01                       You know he runs my front desk. Yeah, I have them on W2. He is my employee by default. Anything that he creates, I own. My Gym owns it so I don’t have to worry about getting in trouble for a copyright infringement, which we touched on a little bit ago. I don’t have to worry about that. But if I just hire Greg to come in, he’s a photographer down the street and he’s coming in to photograph for me. He would then be an independent contractor to my business. By default, he retains the copyright ownership to the images that he photographs. It doesn’t matter if I’m in the photograph, it doesn’t matter if it’s in my gym. He by under the law as it stands now owns the copyright to those. So what do I need as the gym owner, one of two things, you either need to buy out the copyrights, which is have a copyright transfer from Greg to you, the business, which I can talk about the benefits to that here in a minute, but I’m going to tell you now one of my niche blogs in the photography industry, and you may run into a little resistance, which I’ll explain the second document and you don’t need both of these.

Rachel:                                      32:07                       You need one or the other. So the first one is either a copyright transfer from Greg or the photographer to your gym, or the second one is a commercial license or a license of use and it’s Greg licensing to my gym how I can utilize those photographs while he retains the ownership in them. Now, photography industry commercial, commercial photography, which is what we’re talking about here because the end result is going to be used commercially. You’re going to be using on your Instagram, your Facebook, Twitter, blah, blah, blah cause you’re trying to gain new members, right? It’s in your marketing. The photography industry as a whole is relatively resistant to selling of copyright. And they’re creatives. They love their work. And remember, copyright protects the creative expression in this fixed tangible medium, right? So they really are tied into it. Commercial photography, um, it’s not unheard of that you transfer over copyright because the benefits to having Greg as the photographer transfer of the copyrights to me is that I don’t have to worry about checking the license every single time.

Rachel:                                      33:05                       How I want to use it, I don’t have to worry about, and this is the big one a lot of people don’t think about, is that if somebody else takes that image, that’s just say, all right, let’s say we set up a whole session. Greg comes in, take some killer photographs, transfers the cop, or does not transfer the copyright to me. And those images have become the prime branding images. They completely encapsulate what my gym’s about. You know, potential members can feel the sweat, they can feel everything they want to be connected, they want to be part of my, this family. They’re recognizable images. Let’s say somebody, another gym, even in another state or down the road, decides to start utilizing those images. I’m beholden to Greg if he is still the copyright owner and has not transferred it to me, I only have a license at this time.

Rachel:                                      33:53                       I have to wait and hope the Greg, will pursue that other gym for copyright infringement and if he doesn’t he could still potentially ruin my brand. Yes. If there’s any lawyers listening, I am aware we can put into the contract and documentation that Greg would be forced to to help me if there’s ever an issue like that, but the, if there’s ever a copyright infringement claim that comes up, but I can’t force Greg to file a copyright infringement suit or pursue that other third party from wrongfully using the images. And what can it do? Just like we talked about with the brand name earlier, if they’re utilizing the images and maybe it’s an unsavory sites, I’ve seen it happen if they’re utilizing it for their gym and their gym is just really crappy and how can be imparted upon my brands. So for me, you guys are probably thinking all right, bottom line, what do you recommend? It’s going to depend. I do think a full copyright transfer from photographer to the gym is the best course of action. For me personally, even it had been in my nonlegal businesses, that’s what I always negotiate and I paid for you’re going to pay more for it. But in the end I want to know that my brand is preserved and that I own my brand and not some other photographer or somebody else.

Greg:                                          35:06                       So in those terms, is there, um, is there anything out there that people, I mean maybe like a template or something like that that people would have to work off of if they were doing that copyright transfer because I know, I mean if, if I’ve had many members that are amateur photographers and they’ve asked, hey, can I come in and I say, okay, well we need actually signed something that basically states that if I’m paying for you to come in and take these photos that you are giving me like a conditions of release, basically saying I can use these for my advertising. And I can basically monetarily gain from this, from these photos. Is there anything out there that uh, like you said this, the license of, of user or how I’ve done it with a conditional release or the copyright transfer that people can actually download or, or take up to contact you or whoever so that they could actually have these documents ready if, if something like this comes to them within their business or gym.

Rachel:                                      36:00                       Yeah, I know a really fabulous business attorney who has contract templates on her website. Um, so I do have these at Um, I also, if you want to peruse on there’s some similar documents. They’re not fitness specific. I recommend. So here, here’s, here’s why I am in a very peculiar position is that there’s not many lawyers out there. There’s good IP lawyers, but there’s not many lawyers out there that truly understand the needs of entrepreneurs and like push back. So you guys might get, so that’s kind of where I come in and help to bridge the gap. So my, I have these templates, you can use them as is. I always recommend though they’re taken to a local lawyer too at least. And then to make sure it’s good for within your state, which is very important, but it’s good because it can save you time because then they don’t have to draft from scratch. And also many of these lawyers don’t know these nuances of what we’re talking about. And so I’m gona help fill the gap there for them. And you guys now, since you are fricking IP rockstars from listening to this can go in and school, you’re a lawyer a little bit too. Exactly.

Greg:                                          37:09                       Perfect. And we’ll make sure that we link fitlegally in the show notes along with um, your, uh, your services and stuff like that. If people want to jump on your website, we’ll make sure we link all of that in there. Now let’s look at it from the other point of view. So, not only are we saying, hey, if you’re having somebody else come in, you’re using them for years, or if you’re a photographer and then somebody’s taking those same photos or, or whatever, that is what happens when I jump onto Google and, or better yet one of my coaches decide to jump onto Google, pull a photo. Uh, and then we use that on social media. What, what are the legal, I guess, uh, worries behind that and a, how can a lot of people out there protect them from that? I remember when I first originally talked with you, I, uh, contacted one of my coaches that does a lot of our social media. I said, make sure you pull all photos that you’ve ever taken. That we’re not having written, actual written consent from them from any reason. But anyone out there that is listening, that has not done that, um, or don’t know if they’re coaches are doing it or not, what should they be looking out for?

Rachel:                                      38:09                       Yeah. So my heart starts beating really fast when you start talking about pulling from Google because you don’t know. That’s, that’s the fundamental thing. You don’t know who owns that image in the fundamental question, you have to ask yourself whether your coach has photographed it, whether a photographer has come in or you’ve pulled it off of Google or you’re buying a stock image. You have to ask yourself, do I really have permission to utilize this image? And this is huge. Copyright infringement is the number one thing that we do at the law firm because it’s so rampant for reasons that you’re talking about. People will just go and they’ll pull it off the Instagram and they’ll use it. They will just go to Google and will not get permission. They’ll use it and they’ll think, oh well if I credit the person that got it from, that’s enough and it’s not, and there are defenses to copyright infringement, but I just want you guys to understand bottom line and relatively does not matter.

Rachel:                                      39:03                       You can still be liable and it’s strict liability. So if a coach gives it to you, you can still be on the hook. Yeah. Maybe you could go after that coach later to help. You have to pay off the damages to the person that you infringed upon, the person you stole the image from, but you’re still going to be on the hook. Even if a coach is the one that gave it to you or your assistant just snagged it off of Google. And here’s another thing, I’m just gonna throw out some numbers. Even if, let’s say that you think you’re in the right, this is where our justice system kind of sucks a little bit. You still have to show up in court to say you’re, I didn’t do anything wrong, but in order to do that, you have to spend a lot of money in intellectual property cases.

Rachel:                                      39:42                       Copyright, specifically our federal, you’re looking at 40 to $50,000 just on attorney’s fees to be able to stand up in court and say, I’m not actually liable for that. And then if you are, you’re looking at damages, you are looking at maybe how much money you made off it, maybe how much you damage the other party or even their statutory damages amounts. And this is, this is the numbers that I want you guys to remember. Ask yourself is this image that I’m pulling from Google without knowing where it’s coming from? Is it worth $150,000 that I could pay to the other side plus my attorney’s fees 45 to 50 so we’re up to let’s say 200,000 plus their attorney’s fees. So let’s just round it up to say 250,000, is this image that amazing that it’s worth 250,000 the answer is no. A, because if you pull it off of Google, other people probably have to see you’re not having anything unique on your website, and again, $250,000 for one image, that’s probably only going to hit your website a few times, run through social media and be gone. Not Worth it. So no, stay away from Google. Stay away from these free stock photography websites because what’s happening is they’re sourcing, right? They’re saying, hey, photographers come up, load your images, we’ll give a creative Commons license and these businesses can use it. Sounds great, but here’s what happens. You’re having people steal images, upload them, saying that they are their images when they’re not, you’re infringing. And what did I say earlier? It doesn’t really matter. I mean it does. I mean in the grand scheme of things, I don’t want to get any hate mail after this episode, but you’re still gonna be on the hook initially. Okay? So just think, ask yourself, and I want you guys to hear it in my voice every single time. Is this image worth $250,000? No. Then go get an image. You do have permission and you know what? Take it a step further. Invest in a local photographer. We’ve already given you guys the steps on what you need to do, whether you do a copyright buyout or a license, own your brand. Make your brand specific to you. Don’t use in something everyone else has, especially with the potential price tag of 250,000

Greg:                                          41:47                       Oh, agreed. Agreed. 100% on that. And what happens now in that same case, if somebody says, I put, I put this photo up there, I get a, um, a letter from somebody basically saying that they’re going to pursue legal action and I remove that so that it’s, it’s not on the site. I mean, it’s not on anything. What kind of happens next? I mean, I’m guessing the lawsuit doesn’t go away usually.

Rachel:                                      42:10                       Nope. You call me. Um, so this kind of goes back around to what we talked about before, like with the trademark infringement stuff, and they depend on that intellectual property owner’s perspective. Maybe they just want to educate you, right? Maybe they just send you a notice on Facebook and say, Hey, I see you’re using my image. Please take it down. And it can all go away. They may send you a letter and say, will you pay for use of the image? And you may pay it and it all goes away. I don’t remember. I don’t recommend taking any steps until you at least have a lawyer look it over for you. Obviously that’s the big thing here. And I’m not saying that to fill lawyers pockets. I’m saying that to make sure that you don’t do something wrong, you don’t make an admission in a message, right?

Rachel:                                      42:49                       You want to really kind of protect yourself and let them walk you through the steps. Um, I do recommend no backing up the train a little bit here. If I get a notice that says that’s my photograph, take it down, take it down. Right. Um, and then, well, backup. Okay. Screenshot evidence gathered like we talked about before. Make sure we have all that documentation, take it down and then reach out to a local attorney. You can try to resolve it with others, but I just don’t want you to guys, like I said, make it an admission or something and up like put throwing gas on the fire. So always have it evaluated because yes, you want to stop the infringing use because the longer it’s up, potentially the more damages you’d have to pay out. And so if you get a notice, take it down.

Greg:                                          43:32                       Okay. And then like you said, if, if, let’s say they decided to still pursue legal action for, for this, um, that’s where calling you right away. Or a lawyer that, that they use already have is definitely the next step from there.

Rachel:                                      43:46                       Yeah. And here’s the thing, like you guys don’t want to ignore it because like the numbers I gave you before, you may think I’m inflating, I’m really not. I’m, one of the big things that I’ve seen that happens with copyright infringement is you’ll get these letters, you ignore ’em then all of a sudden you get a copyright lawsuit filed against you. You call around to some lawyers and you’re like, well, I can’t afford to pay the retainer for them, so I’m just not gonna do anything. Will you get what’s called a default against you? And so you’re still looking at the same numbers even though you didn’t do anything and you had no fight and chance and you just don’t want that against you. It’s just not worth it. And here’s the good news. I’ll tell you the majority of cases when it comes to this federal federal copyright stuff, we hardly actually ever get into court.

Rachel:                                      44:29                       So even though it’s filed, don’t out reach out to me. We’ll talk through it all. Bear the burden. But majority of them actually settle, right? Because everyone does the cost benefit analysis of whether or not it’s really worth going through with it. That’s both sides and so you could relatively get it wrapped up fairly quickly. I do this, he would think this would go with him saying, don’t go start blasting someone who has your legal future in their hands on the Internet. I’ve seen it. Defendants get pissed and they start posting about the other business that sent them the cease and desist. Just don’t just remove the infringing material after you’ve documented it, reach out to a lawyer, get it taken care of because it won’t just go away.

Greg:                                          45:10                       So anybody out there that is, that is facing that, make sure you do that without a doubt. Now let’s, let’s kind of talk about it from another point of view. I have employees, I have contractors and they decided to leave and let’s say they now we can always debate the difference. We, I mean a 1099 and a W2 or a completely separate, but let’s say even if the contractor, I mean in either case they decided to go a mile down the road, open up their own gym and they’re using my same forms and documents and everything like that that I’ve created a, that would be my IP. Is there anything that we can do depending on whether if there were a contractor or in a 10 99 or I’m sorry, a W2 employee, is there any differential between those?

Rachel:                                      45:53                       Yeah. My recommendation is anytime someone’s going to work for you, I don’t care if they fill in for one class, if they are going to fulltime coach for you, if they’re just doing your social media, I don’t care if you’re going, oh they’re just a contractor. Oh they’re just an employee any time. And yes, this may be be overbearing me coming out, but you’ll see why here in a second. Anytime anyone’s going to create or do anything for me in my business, I am going to have them sign a couple of documents. Let’s use the example of coaches cause that’s one of the most common ones here, right? You bring a coach in, whether they’re or W2 or a, 1099 contractor. And like we said earlier, it’s not if they leave, it’s going to be when they leave cause nothing is forever unless you happen to have one.

Rachel:                                      46:38                       Great, good for you. But we can’t put the cat back in the bag, the genie, the lamp, whatever. So anytime anyone comes in, we want them to sign a couple of things. You’re going to have the core document that’s going to control the actual relationships. So let’s um, she didn’t want to use employee here. Sure. Let’s make them an employee. For this example, they’re an employee where they’re going to sign an employment contract. You know, run their things. Like when you’re going to pay them, how many hours do they have to work? Do they have to wear anything specific? What are the responsibilities, what are your responsibilities to them as the employer, blah, blah, blah. That contracts great, but it’s not really what we’re going to talk about right here. There are three other main documents that I want you guys have in play and there’s a reason they’re broken out, which I’ll talk about in a little while now.

Rachel:                                      47:21                       I mentioned it now I don’t want them all folded into one because if one is ever rendered invalid or terminated and there’s not proper language, all of that can be terminated and that’ll make more sense here when I’m talking it through. So the other three main documents that we want to have in play are a non solicitation agreement, an intellectual property acknowledgement and then a noncompete document. Keeping in mind if this example was an independent contractor a noncompete would probably not apply. Okay, so since we’re talking about employees, we’re going to have employment contract, non solicitation, the IPA, which I always think of beer when I say that intellectual property acknowledgement and then the noncompete. The reason we want to have these documents in play is this. Let’s start with the intellectual property acknowledgement. Since we were just talking about IP, that is going to be the acknowledgement that anything that they create in the course of their employment with you is owned by you.


Rachel:                                      48:15                       Now recognizing I said earlier, if they’re an employee, it’s probably going to be owned by your gym anyways. So, uh, but I still always have an employee and contractor sign this IPA document because status can change. Maybe your coach starts phasing out and they quit being such an employee and just start doing one or two classes a week. As they phase themselves out, they can maybe be considered a contractor or vice versa can also work both ways. So IPA, intellectual property acknowledgement, anything that they create in the course of the business is owned by you, your company. All right. The second document, and this is probably one of the most important ones is, well before I prep, let me preface this before I get into this, cause we kind of talked about this with the Facebook live is the end goal is probably to keep your coaches from stealing your members, right?

Rachel:                                      49:08                       Or, and not even that they’re nefarious. This one of my favorite words. Even if they’re not nefarious and taking your members, members just may end up leaving or they just may tell the members, hey, I’m opening up a new gym. Do you want to come with me? And they may not even think about the repercussions of that. Typically many entrepreneurs think, oh, I just need to do a noncompete agreement and coaches can’t take my clients. That’s not actually true. Noncompetes are actually tied to the actual competition which can include your clients, your well in this case your members and also any potential members, anybody in the local community that they may be soliciting to. I’ll talk about it. I’m going to in a second. The non solicitation is actually what is most important here because you’re wanting to preserve your member list, right? You’re wanting to keep your members from being solicited by any coach that may lead to open up their new gym.

Rachel:                                      50:02                       So you want to have them sign a non solicitation agreement. This can be a blanket. You can never solicit any of my members or you guys can narrow it down to say any members that you brought here on your own that that coach can take with them or you can do it on a time that you know you can’t solicit any members for six months. Non Solicitations allow you to be very broad. Noncompetes, they’re, very narrow and I’ll mention that here in a second but so non solicitations are probably getting fast ways that you’re going to be able to protect your gym, I remember last right now I realize I forgot something in this list. Confidentiality, which is really going actually what you were talking about before. We can also put confidentiality and the non solicitation it’s probably most appropriate in like that core employment contract or that core independent contractor contract and that makes sure that they don’t divulge any of the information or use documents like things that had been created, whether it was created by the coach or somebody else in your gym.

Rachel:                                      51:03                       Um, so confidentiality does need to be in here. So people, sometimes we’ll have them sign a full NDA. You can do that too. If you want to do a nondisclosure agreement, you can do that. I don’t know. I feel like sometimes NDAs are a bit open, like this type of relationship that we’re talking about here. It’s all going to be circumstance specific, you know, um, it’s going to depend how long is the, that coach with you? What did you guys develop together? What were they? Those sorts of things. So an NDA can be appropriate. I just don’t necessarily make it one of the standard first documents. Um, I really just do more of like a confidentiality and I guess we’re kind of tit for tat here. It really matters what’s included within that document. And I just typically put the confidentiality with the employment document.

Rachel:                                      51:50                       So Employment Document IPA, we talked about the non solicitation and then the last document is going to be like the noncompete. I’m going to tell you straight up courts don’t like noncompetes. They don’t like anything that’s going to infringe or cramp the style. They want. Free Flow of commerce. And what does noncompete do? It stops competition. And so in order for a noncompete, and this is all going to vary by state, so you guys need to check in your specific state and he’s narrowed in focus. So like a non solicitation agreement we talked about, you could say you can never solicited any of our members for the next 50 years. Then I’d probably be maybe watch now I’m going to get an email from someone who like in most big that’s not in and out, but for the most part that’s okay and noncompete that would mirror that and say you can’t work in a gym for the next 20 years.

Rachel:                                      52:43                       Anywhere in the u s that ain’t going to hold up. I don’t know. In any state it’s so over broad. It has to be very specific. If things like zip code, the radius, how long it’s going to be. So you would want to do something like John Smith will not compete in a zip code two two four oh six for six months after specific to x, Y, Z services. Right? You want to be very specific in order for it to be enforceable. And the reason we want to have all these documents in place, I don’t want to sit back and while something feels wrong, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong under the law. Right? In our mind we’re thinking, oh coach is taking our stuff instead of their own gym on their own, including members. Feels wrong. The points to something in the law, right? You know there are conspiracy business conspiracy acts out there and there is, there’s a whole bunch of things but you don’t want to rely on any existing laws to be applied with us having these documents in place.

Rachel:                                      53:41                       You’re going to set the expectations and you’re also going to be able to have a breach of contract claim against a party that may break the contracts and give you some recourse and stop their behavior there. So I know that was probably a bit more than what you were asking then your initial question, but I felt like giving the full view of that one. An Nda alone is not enough. And IPA, which is the transfer of the intellectual property rights is not enough. They all have their own place and they all need to be used.

Greg:                                          54:11                       No, and honestly that was perfect because we wanted to have enough information out there so that you wouldn’t know exactly what they were getting themselves into and kind of what they needed to protect themselves. So that was perfect and I think we could go on and on about everything. I’m pretty sure I could ask you about a hundred different questions about legal advice and then eventually you’d probably just send me a bill instead.

Rachel:                                      54:35                       You guys have my permission

Greg:                                          54:39                       so if um, if somebody is trying to reach out, like if they’re listening this podcast and go, you know what I really, I really liked the way Rachel does business. I think I want to get some legal advice from her. What’s the best way they can contract?

Rachel:                                      54:52                       Yeah, you guys can reach out to me at will take you to all of my websites. So fitlegally is the law firm and if tou want to bypass that Connorsand I think we’ll link all of this with the episode as well. But if anything else, just Google, Rachel Brenke. I’m the only one. It’s not hard to get ahold of it.

Greg:                                          55:12                       Yes, for sure. We’ll definitely make sure that we put everything in the show notes, all the links so that anybody out there can can easily access the link in and get to you. So Rachel, thank you for giving us all this. We really appreciate it and uh, I hope in the future I can definitely get you back on here for a whole other series of questions. I’m sure I can come up with to kind of help our viewers there’s and help anybody in this industry.

Rachel:                                      55:38                       Sounds good. I look forward to it.

Speaker 6:                               55:40                       Hey everyone. Chris Cooper here on really thrilled to see you this year in June in Chicago at the 2019 Two-Brain summit. Every year we have two separate speaking tracks is one for you, the business owner and there’s one for coaches that will help them make better, longer, more meaningful careers under the umbrella of your business. This year we’ve got some pretty amazing topics like the client success manager, how to change your life organizational culture or the business owner’s life cycle, how to have breaks, how to have vacations, how to help your marriage survive. Owning a business and motivation and leadership. How to convert more clients, how to create a GM position that runs your gym for you and leaves you free to grow your business. How to start a business owner’s group, your community and more point here is to do the right thing that will help gym owners create better businesses that will last them for the long term.

Speaker 6:                               56:31                       Get them to tinker phase, help them be more successful, create meaningful careers of their coaches and give their clients a meaningful path to longterm health. We only do one big seminar every year and that’s the Two-Brain summit and the reason that we do that is because a big part of the benefit is getting the Two-Brain community together and and welcoming strangers into our midst and showing them how amazing gym ownership really can be. We’ll have a link to the Two-Brain summit, including a full list of all speakers and topics on both the owners and the coaches side in the show notes. I really hope to see you there.

Speaker 7:                               57:09                       As always, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. We greatly appreciate you and everyone that has subscribed to us. If you haven’t done that, please make sure you do drop a light to that episode. Share with a friend, and if you haven’t already, please write us a review and rate us on how what you think. If you hated it, let us know if you loved it even better.



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TwoBrain Marketing Episode 7: Coty Bradburn

TwoBrain Marketing Episode 7: Coty Bradburn

 Two Brain Marketing Episode 7: Coty Bradburn

Today we are joined by Coty Bradburn of CrossFit Mountain Island in Charlotte, NC. Coty grew up with a very sedentary lifestyle and it wasn’t until his late teens that he decided to change his lifestyle and start eating healthy and exercising. After losing 60 pounds, Coty dove into CrossFit full time in 2014. Coty soon bought his own gym and now enjoys helping others reach their exercise and fitness goals through nutrition, community, and empowering a healthy lifestyle. Join us today as we learn about Coty, his gym, and how he leverages paid ads to grow his business. 

Don’t Forget about the 2019 Two Brain Summit, June 8-9 in Chicago! This year we have some amazing topics and guests for both yourself and your coaches. Click hereto register and sign up now!




2:38 – Introduction to Coty Bradburn

5:33 – Going from 6 Member to 50 in two Months. 

8:09 – Advice for people thinking about buying a gym

11:45 – Initial outreach and gaining customers for a new business

13:00 – What made Coty decide to join the Two Brain Family?

16:06 – In Coty’s words, what does he sell at his gym?

18:33 – The sales process at CrossFit Mountain Island

21:02 – How did CrossFit Mountain Island’s metrics change after the Two Brain Incubator

23:52 – The key to growing a successful CrossFit gym.


Announcer:                            00:02                       Welcome everyone to Two-Brain Radio. It is our mission at Two-Brain to provide 1 million entrepreneurs the freedom to live the life that they choose. Join us every week as we discover the very best practices to achieve perfect day and move you closer to wealth.

Chris:                                         00:26                       What makes a good gym website? The answer to that question keeps changing. Five years ago I would’ve said that you need this rotating banner image. Three years ago I would’ve said that you have to have one splash page highlighting the benefits of your service. That’s true. The problem is that the benefits of your service change by the client you’re trying to target and so you need to be able to adapt. You need to be able to add your own landing pages. Your main cover page should reflect what your most important clients want. That’s going to be different from what my most important clients want. So a website is based on a template with the same kind of rotating image is not going to work anymore. I use ForTime Design for the and Websites because those are the most important websites I own.

Chris:                                         01:12                       I want responsive design that’s going to work well on mobile. About 60% of your clients are going to come through mobile and more in the future. I want a responsive designer which means I can contact them to make changes and I want to know how to change my own oil. I want to know how to get in there and add my own post. I talk a lot about content marketing and that means I have to know the medium through which I’m delivering my content. Using ForTime Design has been my choice now for about three years because Teresa and her team are super responsive. She can answer questions for me, she can show me how to do it myself if I want to or she can do it for me if I don’t have time. She’s created a big series of videos for Two-Brain clients in our incubator and growth stages to watch so that they can do stuff like build landing pages themselves.

Chris:                                         02:01                       A lot of website companies try to pull the curtain in front of their knowledge. They try to hold a lot of stuff secret so that they can charge you to do the basic things. Just like in car maintenance, changing your oil, rotating your tires. If you want to do that stuff, awesome. If you don’t have time to do that stuff, take it to the garage. Theresa at ForTime Design gives you both options and she’ll even teach you how to do it yourself if you want to. I use and what made them an official Two-Brain partner is our firm belief in their commitment to helping first and a strong sense of service value.

Mateo:                                      02:38                       Hello and welcome to the Two-Brain marketing podcast. I’m your host Mateo Lopez. I’m one of the digital marketing mentors at Two-Brain business and this is going to be your weekly dose of digital marketing magic. Every week we’re going to go over marketing campaign strategies, useful tips and updates to keep in the loop on the ever changing landscape advertising on the Internet for Your Business. And in today’s episode we have a very special guest, Coty Bradburn. And you’re going to learn a little bit about him and his gym and how he spent, he was able to spend $2,000 in paid ads and generate over $12,000 in front end revenue. So we’re going to figure out exactly how we did that. And so, Coty, how’s it going?

Coty:                                          03:20                       Thanks. Awesome man.

Mateo:                                      03:22                       So tell people who are listening, tell us a little bit about you, where you’re from and, and your gym.

Coty:                                          03:28                       Yeah, so I’m from Charlotte, North Carolina. My gym is crossfit Mountain Island. It’s right outside of the city. We’re actually in a pocket, it’s not super saturated yet. We’ll see. I got the gym September of 2017 it had been a crossfit gym for four years already. It had been through three different owners. And when I bought the gym, a, the guy had a six members that were active. So I took over the lease essentially just paid for his assets because he didn’t have a business I was buying and then negotiated with the land Lord to give me three months of no rents to build up the membership and that was it. It was just kind of like I’ll see what happens.

Mateo:                                      04:10                       How did you do that?

Coty:                                          04:11                       How did I negotiate that?

Mateo:                                      04:13                       Yeah, just your southern charm or how did you do it, you know?

Coty:                                          04:16                       Yeah, the southern charm was a factor, but the guy that was managing the property knew that the dude that owned it wasn’t doing well. I’m not even sure how he was floating the business. He must’ve had other assets coming in, but I just thought about was, I was like, hey man, there’s not a lot of crossfit gyms out here. I think the market can handle it and it needs it, but as of right now, I’m going to sign this lease. I’m not going to pay you rent because the money’s not there from the business. I’ll say, I can take over and I can fix it. I know I can fix it. I just need some time. So he agreed to, that gave me from, let’s see, he gave me October, November, December. So I didn’t even have to pay rent for the first of 2018 and at that point, I mean the first thing I do want to bought the gym.

Coty:                                          04:57                       I remember the first day I took over, I called Chris Cause I knew I was going to go into Two-Brain. I just had money put back that I could use to pay for incubator, but it would’ve dug into my safety net from our first month’s rent. So I told Chris this situation on the phone, he suggested I wait until I’ve got enough cashflow to pay rent and then do incubator. So I did that, waited until about, I want to say it was January or February. I had grown from six up to probably 40 to 50 members at that point. Uh, I was coaching a lot of classes. I had one other coach helping me out.

Mateo:                                      05:33                       Tell us a little bit about that. How did you go from six members to 50 in six months?

Coty:                                          05:37                       Uh, so I was following Two-Brain already. I was reading all of Chris’s love letters, listening to the podcast following along the Facebook page. So a lot of this was warm marketing. I mean I reached out and connected with all of the ex members cause at one point like this first or second owner had gotten the gym up to like 70 members before. But then he had some issues with the space. And, well we all know the story, coached, all the classes didn’t want to do anything as far as the business side and then burned out and sold it. I reached out to all the old members, kind of wrote up a bio about myself, gave them my story, connected with them. I then went around put mailers and mailboxes and all the local neighborhoods, you know, walked around and met a lot of the local business owners. A lot of my, I mean I see, I say a lot the six members that were still there told all the old members that, you know, it was moving into a better direction. Yeah, warm market. Mostly it was all warm market and then a lot of old members and then a handful of just local, I mean members of the community I guess came around.

Mateo:                                      06:39                       Okay. So were you a coach before or were you a member before or how did, how did that,

Coty:                                          06:44                       oh dude chills. Weird man. So like I was having coaching for five years. I’ve actually got to get my level two here soon because my other one’s running out. I was managing a CrossFit gym in the city at the time. I’d been managing it for a little over a year. I would say. I was managing coaching. They’re, the owners were remote. They lived out in Nashville, they’re not members. The Gym was about 10,000 square feet. I mean our membership was hanging out around one 80 to 200 for the most part. But I didn’t really know a lot about running a business, especially a CrossFit gym. I’d coached prior to that, but it was a lot of um, experience. I gained managing that place. Right. So how I found about, about my gym now, it was for sale. My mother, her friend was a member at that gym. So then she told my mom that, hey, this gym is for sale.

Coty:                                          07:34                       Mom told me, I was like, well, I can’t afford to buy a gym but I’ll go look at it and see, you know, like, I’ll check it out. And it was actually really close to my house and it was about 12 minutes away from where I live, which was half the distance of the gym, I was managing and it was in a good spot. I did some research, met the members, met the owner and yeah man, it just kind of the way it’ll happen, it was a blessing, but it was um, one of those stories is like, it was meant to be right in quotation there because just the way, the way that it happened was just loud. But then I bought the gym and then within, within two months I was owner.

Mateo:                                      08:09                       We talked to a lot of people who are thinking about opening a gym, or thinking about buying a gym. Do you have any advice for people who are thinking about buying an existing business versus just starting from scratch?

Coty:                                          08:18                       From what my experience from buying the gym. I mean I think there’s pros and cons. The big pro is that it was already, you know, it was a brick and mortar location. It was already set up. The equipment was there. I just literally, it was turnkey, right? I mean turnkey as far as the gym goes, not turnkey as far as business goes. I had to learn a lot about how to run the business because I was used to coaching and just some low level managing prior selling it. But the con would be that it had the brand had a reputation that I had to overcome. Right. So I went through the process of considering, you know, completely rebranding, changing the name.

Mateo:                                      08:52                       Did you do that or you know, end up keeping it.

Coty:                                          08:55                       Yeah, I kept it, I kept the name and just did a lot of work overcoming people’s perception mostly with advertising myself.

Mateo:                                      09:04                       Yeah. So cause it sounds like you did a lot of direct outreach. It sounds like you, you kind of sold yourself to the six people you had and then said, hey, go spread the word to the other people who maybe have left. Yeah, so it seems like that was really effective for you. When people came back, did you, what did you offer them to try and get them to, to to try it out again?

Coty:                                          09:26                       I don’t remember offering, I mean I’ve never done discounts. I don’t remember offering discounts. I don’t remember. I think for for x members, because this was prior to me going to incubator for x members, I offered them a free class. Those that have done crossfit so they can see my coaching style, getting experience as far as how class structures were going to go now versus how they had been prior. And then just talked to them. We just sat down for coffee and just chatted about me, answered their questions, but I didn’t have a lot of, oh I didn’t have a very hard time overcoming those objections as far as old members coming back because when they left they left because of the coaching style and the management, the previous owner. And I think it was pretty apparent when they met me and saw how I ran a class experience that that it was going to be different. So I guess, those are pretty easy sales cause they came back, tried a class, were like, Yup, this is what I want. And then they signed back up.

Mateo:                                      10:18                       So then what was different about your service?

Coty:                                          10:21                       Well, I don’t want to like to speak badly about the previous owner. He wasn’t into crossfit for crossfit. He was in, it was interesting. He didn’t do crossfit, he didn’t exercise, he didn’t understand the methodology. He didn’t have any, he didn’t even have a level one. He had the affiliate in a coach’s name that had a level one. So he was like bringing in random trainers, some without certifications to run classes with that didn’t have experience crossfitting. I mean I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been told stories about members having keys to the gym that when the coach wasn’t there, they were just open up and work out by themselves and lock up anywhere from, you know, from that too. You know, the coach coming in, turning on the lights, play music, and then going and sitting in the office and on their phone for the duration of the class while numbers worked out to, you know, them trying to run like a kid’s program simultaneously with the class without a coach being there for the kids program. It was, yeah, it was. It was gnarly.

Mateo:                                      11:17                       Oh Wow.

Coty:                                          11:18                       So when they walked in and met a guy that was like passionate about crossfit, you know, opening up everyday, closing every night, you know, the whole romantic concept of owning a crossfit gym. And that’s not sustainable. But they met me. They could tell I was passionate. They saw me all the time, you know, they could tell I cared about the gym and I was invested in them.

Mateo:                                      11:36                       Yeah. So just coming in and coaching the class seems like that was a big step up in in the right direction. And tell me a little about the outreach you did with the people in the community. So you said you went to other businesses and just kind of introduced yourself. What was that like?

Coty:                                          11:54                       It was um, interesting because prior to me owning this business, I’ve never had any experience in sales and I didn’t realize at the time it’s all essentially selling myself. But I mean, I wrote the Bio about myself, for the gym as far as like vision for the gym, what the goal was to accomplish and then just drove out to businesses and took these flyers like apartment complexes and local restaurants and small mom and pop shops and just talk to them, told them, you know, I, I’ve taken over the gym, where we were at, what we were doing and then encouraged them to come by and just try it.

Mateo:                                      12:30                       Awesome. And okay, so you took over this business, it sounds like it was just you, was it just you or did you have …

Coty:                                          12:39                       I had one other coach, coach that was,, really an intern because they went and got their level one, like a mock prior to me taking over and then they wanted to come and just learn everything is on it.

Mateo:                                      12:48                       So, okay. So it was you and a part timer. You worked, you worked your butt off to try and salvage this business. You’re able to have some amazing growth come from six members to 50 in six months. Before that, you had already put in your call to Chris. But right about that time, six months later, you’ve decided to pull the trigger. What motivated you to, to make that decision and then, you know, what was kind of the, the change you saw after going through the incubator?

Coty:                                          13:16                       Um, the motivation for me was that I didn’t want to be that guy that was, you know, five to 10 years deep into the business with a CrossFit gym and still coaching all the classes, getting by worrying about the next steps. As far as like business growth, I didn’t want to get caught. I didn’t want to pay all of that money every month, to burnout or to be confined to my business. I don’t, I don’t think that entrepreneurs own businesses to be slaves of the business. I think if I wanted to have that kind of a schedule, I would just pick up a nine to five somewhere and have the stability of that without the stresses of business ownership. So I went to Two-Brain, because I knew that it was gonna give me the freedom to lead the lifestyle I want to lead. I needed a coach.

Coty:                                          14:07                       I knew how to be personable, I knew how to relate to members. I was invested in them. So that was all easy and, and we all do that. But I had no idea how to run a business. So what I learned in the incubator was Chris’ mindset and the Two-Brain mindset as far as how to separate yourself, how to create value, how not to compete with other gyms on price. Um, the reason not to give discounts, it was like a total perspective shift. Right? So it was understanding that if we want to be at the top of this business model, we have to do things at other gyms don’t do. So I learned all those things that we do that separate us.

Mateo:                                      14:50                       Amazing. And how, you said lifestyle was important. How did your lifestyle change from before to the incubator and then after going through it?

Coty:                                          15:00                       Well, I mean it’s 10 o’clock in the morning right now. I just had breakfast. I’m getting coffee talking to you and I’m not freaking out about the gym.

Mateo:                                      15:07                       I guess that there you go. That’s it.

Coty:                                          15:09                       Yeah, we’ve got, I mean, every day, Monday through Friday, we’ve got six classes that run a day with personal training time slots opened up throughout this, between those classes as well as our time slots. I mean, I’ve got eight employees, all of, so I mean really, I’m responsible for three classes a week and that’s because I want to, I mean, I’ve got a waiting list of employees that like want more classes, but I’m still in a place where I want to have a presence in the gym. I’m trying to figure out how I can replace myself that doesn’t negatively impact the member’s experience. So I’m not there yet but not a long way to go with that. But yeah, I mean like I know that if I want to coach classes I can, but I don’t have to. If I want to spend my time doing things, that are going to grow the business. That’s been the biggest change is I’m not, I’m not imprisoned in that. What the business has to have to stay sustainable, you know?

Mateo:                                      16:04                       Yeah, totally. I totally get that. That’s amazing. And so in your own words, it sounds like you’ve, you’ve really upgraded the service from the previous ownership, from the, the way it was previously run. So in your own words, what do you sell and how do you sell it ?

Coty:                                          16:21                       I mean I sell and I think we sell a fix to people’s problems, right? That’s, that’s what we’re doing. We’re trying to genuinely change lives, right? So we sell an experience and information that is going to impact not just the member but the entire members like close circle, right? So those are their family, right? So we impact a mom. I mean like last week my girlfriend and I, we had power hour nutrition consult with this lady, she was doing the six week challenge and we were facetiming. And like we were giving her advice that was going to directly impact her husband and her kids because she’s the one that does the grocery shopping and the cooking, right? So if we can change her experience and her mindset on health and fitness, I mean we’re going to impact a lot more than just her. Right? So that’s what we sell.

Coty:                                          17:11                       We sell. I, I firmly believe that we sell a fix to chronic disease through crossfit and our, and our, our education and experience. And I sell it by connecting with people, right? So if someone doesn’t trust me or they don’t think that I’ve got credibility, they’re not going to buy from me. But if they come in and we can connect and I can make them laugh and they can see I’m a person that just has a fix to their problem and they can look around and see that I have credibility by the business and people that are already there giving social proof. I mean, the only question is can they afford it? After that there’s really, they know that if they know they have a problem, if you’re in my gym, if they’ve come in, they know there’s a problem that they need to have fixed. And if they like me and they can afford it, there’s no other missing pieces.

Mateo:                                      17:57                       So I think that’s so true. I think that’s the key when you’re talking about here is, this is problem solving, right? People, people are turning to people walking into your door. People are calling because they have a problem, they may not know what it is exactly just yet. And that’s kind of our job to coach them through that and tease it out. But, but yeah, that’s really the motivating factor for, for all all of sales, right? It’s people have a current problem, current situation. They’re trying to get to their desired spot there, their desired solution. And, and it sounds like you do a good job of positioning yourself as that solution. So you said getting people to know, like, and trust you is critical. So walk us through that sales process. What happens when someone walks in through the door?

Coty:                                          18:39                       Yeah. Uh, they walk in, they’re on the schedule. We’re expecting them. So they meet with me or my girlfriend as well, or one of the coaches and we offer them a bottle of water or a cup of coffee. We kind of show them the gym. If there’s a class going on then we’ll give a quick breakdown of like the class structure, what’s happening, we’ll tell them a few members’ names so they have some identity and then we’ll head into our office. We actually have an office that we use for No-Sweat intros as you know, some pretty comfortable leather couches or I’m sorry, these leather chairs. We have a coffee bar and desk and we’ll sit in a little, we’ll see side by side and yeah, we’ll just go over, I mean we, so we use the notes. We get to know them better We basically start with like, why are you here?

Coty:                                          19:18                       What’s your problem? We have some direction on how to talk to them. And then we just connect. I mean we try to find out why, what’s, why health is important to them, why fitness is important to them. We try to find the real reason they’re there, not just the superficial stuff. And once we’ve figured that out, we just educate them. So we explained to them why it works, how the process works, what they can expect and find out if their desires more group or personal training. We use the help first model. So just based on what you need help with, this is how we can help you too. Then we’ll prescribe and create like a vision of how this service is gonna positively impact their quality of life and if they can envision that and we can prescribe what we think’s best. That usually gets the um, the ball rolling for them.

Mateo:                                      20:09                       That’s awesome. The fact that you greet them and you give them a bottle of water or a coffee, it kind of starts off that yeah, you’re using that reciprocity principle where it’s like you’re giving them something now they’re kind of primed to give you something back in return. Uh, so that’s amazing that you do that. And then when you bring them into this office, it sounds like you create a, you know, you’re controlling the environment, controlling the experience and you’re not stuck in the chaoticness of the class or trying to talk over the music. I think that’s super important and it’s a lesson. It took me a long time to learn and I think a lot of others are struggling with that too. But I, I think, I think you bring a good point and I can’t stress the, of having that separate space to conduct your intros and that it’s clean. And it has a nice leather couches and then it’s it, it’s appealing place to be. So that’s amazing. So awesome. So, so now tell us a little bit about, so the last year’s lifestyle change in, in the sense that you were able to, you know, bring on some other coaches. You’re able to have coffee right now and talk with me, but walk us through some of the numbers, you know, how did your, your gym on the business side, some of the metrics change after going through the incubator?

Coty:                                          21:17                       For sure. Most of the growth for the business was in systems, learning how to connect with a warm market. I had shown them value. I still didn’t understand Facebook or Instagram advertising. I would, you know, boost a post here and there that was having good organic reach. But I didn’t really know what that would do. I didn’t have a system in place to capture those people that saw it. So I also signed up for the marketing incubator to that was, that was back in like may or June’s is about six months after. I think better. And then, I don’t know, it was close to the end of the year, so like around August, September. But I got through the marketing. I mean I remember sitting right here at my coffee table in my house or my dinner table for a weekend, eight, nine hours a day working through the entire marketing Incubator and having it done by the following Monday.

Coty:                                          22:07                       And I had ads, you know, click funnels, landing pages all live and going with depths texting me about new leads in a couple of days. I to do all of it. So as far as that goes, that taught me about how to get out and do it. The actual online marketing space. And that was huge. That was huge. So as far as metrics go, now we’re up around like 87 and 90 members. I’m trying to break through that threshold of 100 people. Let’s see, so far I’ve spent a little over $2,054 on paid ads, my average cost per lead for women’s 6.43, for men, it’s about 8.84 so pretty low. Now we’re just trying to figure out the best systems to Improve no-shows, right? So just using uplaunch, you know, following along with you and Blake using the systems you guys preach to us, make them show up because if they come into the gym, we’ll probably sell them. But out of that 2054 I’ve put in, the front end revenue’s been $12,488 and 74 cents and that’s all solely based on like six week challenges. I’ve got a couple doing a hundred day journey and then that’s not including like ARM or membership after they finish their challenge. That’s purely front end.

Mateo:                                      23:25                       wow, that’s awesome man. And so it sounds like you’ve had this awesome journey from taking this, this derelict business and making it your own, completely changing the way you, you offer the service. You’ve kind of made a name for yourself in the community. If you’ve done a lot of outreach, you’ve worked through your systems, you’ve hired staff, and you’ve now created a way in which you can kind of grow and control the growth of your gym through some of the paid advertising strategy. So, you know, what do you think’s been the key to your success so far?

Coty:                                          23:57                       So One thing I would say consistency. What’s been key to success? Because saying you’re gonna do something to your members or your coaches and then following through is huge because people see that and then just consistently every day doing the things that need to be done as far as like CEO tasks and owner tasks, they’re good. They’re going to move the needle for the business so that I can positively impact the coaches and, and members without martyring myself, my quality of life. Right. So if you’re not consistent in those things, it’s not really going to push the needle for you. But consistently working through the incubator, consistently working through the marketing. I mean, right now my girlfriend , she’s helped me run the business. Now we’re redoing the incubator and the marketing modules so that we can both be on the same page. And so it’s cool for me because now I’ve been doing it for about six months to a year. I’m getting the same information from, from a new perspective because I’ve experience a lot of it. So I’m kind of, we’re redoing some landing pages were we just finished redoing our website. But I mean I think it comes back to being consistent and doing the things we all know we need to do and that you guys tell us to do because you know, it works to be able to keep advancing our businesses.

Mateo:                                      25:11                       Awesome man. Well, I think what we touched on is holding yourself accountable and making sure you’re following through on the things you’re saying you’re gonna do and consistently growing and consistently learning. And even if you think you know something, going back again, and it’s kind of like crossfit fundamentals, you know, going through the incubator, you, you’re going through business fundamentals, which, and, and I also think a big part of that is mentorship, right? That’s what the mentor is there to help you do, is to keep you accountable, keep you, make sure you’re consistently growing and challenging yourself and pushing yourself in getting to that next level. And I think that’s kind of the key, the key difference with what we do and what some of the other stuff that’s out there. So. Awesome man. Well thanks for hopping on and sharing your coffee with me this morning. Am I going to see you at the summit?

Coty:                                          26:01                       Yeah, we’re actually looking at airbnbs and plane tickets this morning right now. The summit and trying to find some people to stay with or just grab a meal. But yeah, that’s a, that’s on the agenda. We’re gonna make it happen so we can get out there and actually meet you guys.

Mateo:                                      26:13                       Nice. Well hopefully we’ll see you there and then, uh, yeah, keep crushing it dude.

Coty:                                          26:18                       Thanks man. I appreciate all the information and help.

Chris:                                         26:20                       Hey everyone. Chris Cooper here and really thrilled to see you this year in June in Chicago at the 2019 Two-Brain Summit. Every year we have two separate speaking tracks. Is one for you, the business owner. And there’s one for coaches that will help them make better, longer, more meaningful careers under the umbrella of your business. This year we’ve got some pretty amazing topics like: the client success manager, how to change your life organizational culture or the business owner’s life cycle, how to have breaks, how to have vacations, how to help your marriage survive. Owning a business and motivation and leadership. How to convert more clients, how to create a GM position that runs your gym for you and leaves you free to grow your business. How to start a business owner’s group in your community. And more. The Point here is to do the right thing that will help gym owners create better businesses that will last them for the long term.

Chris:                                         27:11                       Get them to Tinker phase, help them be more successful, create meaningful careers that their coaches and give their clients a meaningful path to longterm health. We only do one big seminar every year and that’s the Two-Brain summit. And the reason that we do that is because a big part of the benefit is getting the Two-Brain community together. And and welcoming strangers into our midst and showing them how amazing gym ownership really can be. We’ll have a link to the Two-Brain summit, including a full list of all speakers and topics on both the owners and the coaches side in the show notes. I really hope to see you there.

Greg:                                          27:48                       As always, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. We greatly appreciate you and everyone that has subscribed to us. If you haven’t done that, please make sure you do drop a light to that episode. Share with a friend, and if you haven’t already, please write us a review and rate us on how what you think. If you hated it, let us know if you loved it even better.


This is our NEW podcast, Two-Brain Marketing, where we’ll focus on sales and digital marketing. Your host is Mateo Lopez!

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