Why Everyone Shows up for Free Intros With Pep Leppers

Picture of Pep Leppers with title text.

Mike (00:02):

40 leads, 40 appointments, 39 shows and 28 sales. Those aren’t magical marketing numbers. They’re the actual September stats from All Round CrossFit in Netherlands. Co-owner Pep Leppers will tell us what he did to generate these amazing stats right after this.

Chris (00:16):

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Mike (00:54):

This is Two-Brain Radio. I’m your host, Mike Warkentin. Two-Brain tracks our data from clients relentlessly and Pep Leppers logged some incredible numbers to be one of our set show close leaders in September. 100% of his 40 leads booked intro appointments. That’s a set rate of a hundred percent. Only one person didn’t come to an appointment. That’s a show rate of 98%, 28 people who showed up purchased something for a close rate of 72%. These are incredible numbers.

Mike (01:20):

Pep. Welcome to the show. Congratulations on some amazing numbers.

Pep (01:25):

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for inviting me.

Mike (01:28):

I’m really excited to talk to you about this. And so I’m just going to get right into it. The first question here, when did you start tracking these numbers and have they always been this high or have they improved over time?

Pep (01:37):

So we actually started tracking our numbers, our set rates and all this stuff, in May once we started back opening after the lockdown. So we actually are in the Netherlands. So in the Netherlands, they said we had to close all our gyms till the 1st of May. And then after the 1st of May, we were allowed to train people outside again, and then we had to do that for a month, but then we also started tracking our numbers.

Mike (02:06):

So the numbers that we talked about are from September. So going from May up until September, did you see the numbers increasing to a peak in September or were they always kind of this good?

Pep (02:17):

So actually, in May June, our show up rates and our close rates actually are very consistent. So we always basically have a show up rate of around 93 to 98% and a close rate of between 70 and 80%. So those numbers are very consistent, only our set rates have been improved. And between, I think from the last four months, they have been very consistent between 30 to 40 leads per month.

Mike (02:52):

Those are such outstanding numbers. And we’re going to dig in deep and ask you some questions cause I want to know how you’re doing it, but I want to just quickly start on the first link in the chain, and I just want to understand where you’re getting your leads from. So I understand that you’re using a combination of affinity marketing and Facebook ads. Can you tell me a little bit more about the two systems of how you are acquiring the leads in the first place?

Pep (03:14):

Yeah, so, actually, so going back to the, back to the affinity marketing marketing. So from the affinity marketing, I think one of the most important things about that is, so we don’t actually have a very specific system for affinity marketing in which we basically talk to members and ask them to bring friends basically, or bring family members. But what we have done really well in the past where we have invested a lot of time is making sure that basically having our product really well. So making sure that the coaches are doing their job really well, making sure that we create an environment in which people feel very comfortable you know, bringing their loved ones or their friends over to join the gym as well because joining a gym and especially CrossFit in the Netherlands has maybe a bit of like a reputation.

Pep (04:13):

Yeah. Like like a reputation of being very, very hard, very difficult and very challenging from the start actually. So people see videos online where, yeah, well the CrossFit games, for example. So then they have the idea that CrossFit is a very hard sport and very tough to tough to get into. So we actually create an environment where we don’t really try to try to be the competitive gym where we try people to get to the CrossFit Games basically. So it’s kind of the opposite. So we really focus on just regular people training two to four times a week and making just very good fitness gains. So I think creating an environment where people feel very welcomed and very helped in in their fitness journey is something that is really valuable in getting affinity marketing, so to speak.

Pep (05:06):

So one of the things we do actually do also in regards to that is talking to our members a lot. So we constantly talk to talk to members on how they’re feeling what’s going on in our personal life. And what they’re working on that week, that month, that day, that year in regards to their fitness. So I think those things are very, very important into having people bring over other people in their lives. So from those 40 in September, I think 15 to 20 of those were just friends, family, who were, uh, saying, well, I want to bring over my buddy, Eric from my work, how can we do it? How can he sign up? So, that worked really well. So I think focusing on yeah, your product or environment and making sure you’ve got a comfortable process in which you engage with new prospect new leads, basically.

Mike (06:09):

Yeah. So I’m just going to jump in for a second guys, listeners, we have a specific process for affinity marketing. You can get it in the free tools section of Two-Brain business.com and we have an entire step-by-step guide for you. If you want to do the exact stuff that we recommend. Pep, it sounds like for you, you don’t have the exact, like a framework of where you’re sitting people down and asking for referrals, you’re just doing an outstanding job of getting to know your members and creating this environment where they want to bring people. So in the coming months, like, do you have plans to even formalize your affinity marketing process even more to generate more referrals?

Pep (06:43):

Yeah, actually we do. So one of the things that we’re gonna, that we’re kind of setting up right now is just basically we call it a call it a check-in. So basically people can come off like a goal review session, basically. So it’s one of the things that you guys also recommended in getting referrals through. So it’s one of the things that we think about and also we’re going to implemen in the future. So it’s probably gonna help kind of help a little bit for sure. So, we’ll see. So I’m actually excited to see of that.

Mike (07:16):

Me too. I mean, your numbers are outstanding already, like improving on great numbers is going to be even cooler. Tell me a little bit about, you said about half the leads came from affinity marketing. Give me the quick summary of how you acquire the others. I think it was Facebook ads. Did you say earlier?

Pep (07:30):

Yep. Yeah, so we do Facebook marketing. So for the Facebook marketing, I think what’s very important for us at least has been that our ads and basically our whole social media presence is very consistent and very aligned with everything we do. So our ads are basically saying the same thing as our website and our posts are giving you the same feeling as our website and as our ads. So I think those things have to really, be in line with your values and your other social media presence. So I think that consistencey, that really helps. I think that when people are looking for gyms looking for, yeah, for CrossFit gym to workout and they’ll see your website, they might have seen it once or twice. And then they’ll, they’ll probably say have seen your Instagram and then somebody, they see they see your ad.

Pep (08:23):

Then they probably have an idea of who you are already. And I think it really helps with the converting of the ads or the effectiveness of the ads basically. So I think that’s one thing that really helps for us also, we record videos, we record photos and we put them in our ads, which we’ll let people know that when they are coming to the gym, they will see real people and they will talk to, and they will be guided and they will be helped. So I think, that’s also really important that it isn’t just a flashy ads with a lot of words. And that’s what has at least worked for us really well. And we’ve tried a couple of different formats with those, and it was one of the things that really stuck out.

Pep (09:11):

Also one of the things I think that has worked really well for us as well, is being very easy, very simple, basically in our ads. So we don’t do a lot of flashy stuff or create a lot of attention. So we create a lot of attention from the get go, but once they click on the ads, it’s all very, very basic, very clear instructions on what to expect and where to book an appointment and how to reach out. So I think that’s very important because people want to see information really quick. So if you make it a bit too hard for them to read through instructions, they’ll be gone before they they reconsider basically your offer. So yeah, that’s one of the things that’s been working for us as well. And so we basically have a two option, the two way opt-in for our ads. So we have a opt-in for the personal information, so we can reach out to them if they don’t book an appointment.

Mike (10:10):

That one person that doesn’t book with you.

Pep (10:14):

So, we can call them as well. And then we have a, just a opt-in for the appointment, which is also very, very clear, very easy accessible, and yeah, it makes it, we have also a lot of availability and times for people to schedule appointments. Those things are very, very important and make it very convenient for people to come to your gym.

Mike (10:36):

That’s really interesting. And it’s the reason I asked you first about leads is because you’ve given me some stuff to think about already with the reasons why so many leads are booking appointments. So I’m just going to pull a couple of things out from what you just said, if I’ve got it right. And I want you to add to that, but we’re looking now at like you had every single lead book an appointment, and that’s amazing because how many leads have, so many gyms leads, fail to do that. They see something, you know, they click on it, they don’t book. Your ads get clicks, but they just don’t book. And you’ve kind of solved this problem. Some of the stuff that you mentioned that I want to point out to people is it sounds like the first thing that you’ve done is, you know, you’re using a warm audience.

Mike (11:15):

So you’re using affinity marketing, and you’re talking to people who are likely to bring in their friends and family. We always recommend that people do that before they spend money on ads. So you’re dealing immediately with a close friend of a current member who obviously knows likes and trusts you. So that’s the first thing that sounds like, you know, if I’m at your gym and I love you. And I tell my friend, you’ve got to come to Pep’s gym, that person’s probably going to book an appointment. So it sounds like affinity marketing there is really helping on that end, moving to ads. We traditionally see far few, like people click on ads and then they don’t book appointments. That’s very common in the industry. What you’ve told me though, is that your ads seem to be on brand. So people see exactly what they’re getting. So when they, I’m going to guess that when they go from your ad to your landing page, they probably see a consistency. Like there’s no disjointed situations where it’s like, Oh, there was bloody barbells on this ad and now on this landing smiling coach. Right. Is there a consistency from your ads all the way through with every single thing a person sees?

Pep (12:14):

Yeah, basically. Yeah. So I think it’s also very important because if you don’t do it and you’re not very consistent or you’re going to try something in which you’re not fully, where you not fully can stand 100% behind or not feel comfortable talking about then it’s something not, it’s probably not the ad for you. So it has to be really in line with your values. And if it is, then it’s going to be very consistent basically.

Mike (12:45):

So you know, the kind of person that you’re appealing to, right? Like, you know you’re not looking for a CrossFit Games athlete, you’re looking for certain type of person, your ads are designed to acquire that person.

Pep (12:54):

Yeah. Basically. Yeah, for sure. So we just set up an avatar for this. So we basically set up a whole profile for the kind of people that we’re attracting and that we’re aiming for basically.

Mike (13:06):

So that’s a huge one because I think a lot of gyms and I’ve certainly made this mistake have too often, they try to cast this wide net and get everybody and they create ads that don’t appeal to really anyone or they create ads that appeal to a certain person, they go to a landing page and they see something that they don’t like. So that’s fascinating. So you’ve got your audience dialed in. So that’s really cool. The next thing that really stood out for me was that you have a very, like a simple, but clearly laid out process for someone to book ads or sorry to book appointments, and you have lots of appointment availability. Is that right?

Pep (13:36):

Yep. That’s correct. Yep.

Mike (13:38):

Those are another thing that it’s huge to where if the next step is confusing and people are, don’t know what to do to sign up. And I was guilty of this for many years. It’s very tough for them to book appointments, right. They’re like, Oh, I have to send an email to ask to come and do a drop in or something. Right. Like you’ve got that figured out.

Pep (13:54):

We did this as well for a long time, made those mistakes as well.

Mike (13:59):

I feel better about it. And then the second thing is that a lot of appointment availability, like the worst thing that I think you can do is if someone’s really motivated to come, they click on your appointment booking calendar and they can’t get an appointment for three weeks. They’re probably just going to pass on. So you’ve got a large staff availability, or do you take all the appointments or do you have your staff do it? Who does it?

Pep (14:18):

So at this point I am actually currently, so it is correct. So in this point, basically, I book my schedule full with all of these appointments. So at this point, that’s one of the challenges that, that we’re fixing right now is getting our staff on board with this whole process. So it’s going to allow me to get my schedule more clear.

Mike (14:39):

  1. So that’s, those are the three things that I pulled out from what you said when you’re getting leads to book. Is there anything else that you’re doing that, and you said like if a lead doesn’t book, which didn’t happen in the last month, but if a lead doesn’t book, you obviously have their contact information as best you can. And then do you have systems in place to track those people down and encourage them to book at a later date?

Pep (14:58):

Yeah, so actually what we do is when we get a lead, which doesn’t book an appointment, then what we do is we call them and we do it in a 24 hour period. So, so for myself, for example, I’m not very into the, once you get a get a lead call them just at the exact moment. It’s more of, I think, a personal preference, but I don’t really feel comfortable with the idea that somebody is behind a desk and then they get a call right away. But maybe that’s a bit Dutch for me, but I don’t know, but think that’s one of the things that, so I call them within 24 hours and people remember people remember when they sign up for stuff within 24 hours.

Pep (15:43):

So for those things, it’s really convenient and also in this time, so I’m very comfortable with those conversations then as well, since I’m in a very comfortable position. So then, I think it shows into conversation and it shows over the phone when you call people. So you have to be in the, I mean, it sounds really, really simple, but you have to be just really in the mood to call and in the mood to talk to people basically. So if you can get yourself there, then it’s going to be a lot easier to just call people.

Mike (16:18):

Have I missed anything on getting leads to book appointments? Is there any other secrets that you’re doing that no one knows about that you want to share here? Or did we catch everything?

Pep (16:28):

No, I think those are the most important things. I think it also shows that, and I think that’s very important is that we don’t get all of our leads just from our Facebook ads, because that will be, especially to get it 100% every time. I mean, that will be hardly impossible. So, I think that affinity marketing is definitely, should be your base of, your marketing system. Basically. It should be one of your first things you have to have to think about just people that are already in your gym. Those are the people that know people who will probably like you as well. So that’s the, I think that’s one of the things that people have to have to keep in mind.

Mike (17:09):

Yeah. And we honestly like in the Two-Brain mentorship program, we work very hard to tell people that, you know, Facebook ads do work, but they’re not the answer and they cost money. They cost money. Right? So if you can do affinity marketing first that only costs you time and you’re going to get a warmer audience. So it’s going to be easier to acquire members than it is if you just spend ads. And if you get both processes in place and they both work very well, you get the kind of results that you got. Let’s move on to getting to people to book appointments, to show up. And we’ve done shows about this in the past about all these incredible excuses people give for not coming to appointments. And we’ve talked about like, you know, why people just don’t show up and so forth. You had 39 of 40 people talk to you. And we know that some of those people came from affinity marketing. So they’re really interested. Some of them were cold or Facebook leads, but how are you doing so well with this incredible show percentage when so many gyms are struggling with this?

Pep (18:01):

Yeah. So I think,one of the things that we do that works really well with this is so once people set up an appointment for us and it sounds really, really simple, but they just get a confirmation email just directly with very, very clear instructions on what to expect, what to bring, what we’re going to do during the hour. So we basically just, I mean, it’s already being put out on, I mean, they’ll see the same information on the website, on the ads and everywhere, but it’s always good to just reinforce or reinforce for people what you’re going to do and what they can expect. So I think being very clear on your instruction on what they can expect makes them have less anxiety or less stress about the first time they’re going to walk into the gym.

Pep (18:53):

So I think those, that’s very important and also, I think your language in which you clearly lay out those instructions should be, should be very kind, very opening, very welcoming and encouraging basically. So I think that’s one of the things that we do, firstly, then secondly, we, so in our appointment booking system, basically, we also have an option in which people can basically, if they have any concerns, they can lay it out there already, or they can, they can let us know. So sometimes we get somebody to book an appointment and they already say, well, I’m a bit worried about this or this, or in that case at once, once I get an appointment booked, in which I think, well, this might be a little bit scary or challenging for the person to come, then I’ll make sure I’ll text, or I call them beforehand to take away that anxiety or stress in which they’re having.

Pep (19:50):

And also we send them reminders. So they get a 24 hour reminder to get a one hour reminder of the appointment just to get it into their heads that they have an appointment with us, and then we’re waiting for them. And we’re very excited to meet them. And that we can’t wait, basically. So I think that’s one of the most important things, because people do forget that people, if they book an appointment, they’ll put it in a calendar or they switch up times. So I think those are things that you just have to send it out and people really don’t mind if you, I mean, I’ve never heard any complaints about the amount of emails we have sent people, or texts or phone calls before an appointment. So, people actually really like that you care and that you are looking forward to meet them basically.

Chris (20:42):

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Mike (21:07):

That’s fascinating. I want to interrupt you just for one second, if you’ll excuse me, because I want to go back and ask you one question, because you’ve got a system like an automated appointment confirmation system, and that’s common, but what I want to know more about is this, what’s the system that you’ve got in place to acquire, like, you know, to find out about the fears of people ahead of time. Like, that seems like a really interesting thing where a lot of gym owners, aren’t finding ways to find out why people are missing appointments and you have a system in place where they’re saying, Oh, I’m worried about this or that. Can you tell me more about that system that gives you information that then you can reach out and help them?

Pep (21:40):

Yeah. So one of the things that so we have, we work with a system called Calendly. So, I mean, I think it’s very common for a lot of people to work with that as well. So in this software, we can basically put different questions in which we want to know. So different information. It’ll obviously we’ll want to know their name, their email, their phone number, but we also, what we also do is we differentiate, the things that we offer and where people come from. So for example, our Facebook ads are at this point linked to a six week challenge. So as soon as people say, well, we’re here for a six week challenge, then I know that they’re going to be colder lead. So in that case, I’m able to contact them more or be more invested in them to basically show up.

Pep (22:25):

Whereas if I already know it’s the cousin of a member, then I know he’s going to show up. So I don’t have to call them in advance basically. And also what we added is just the very simple question is if you have anything that you want to share before we have our meeting, just share it and then we’ll get in contact with you basically. It’s just this very simple, but it really, really helps, because people feel like, I think they’re feeling that they are being more listened to and they’re having that more of a personal connection already since they have the availability to contact us before the appointment, even though they obviously can through our website via email, telephone, all that stuff, but still, I mean, those are, you just want to have to, you want to make it as easy and as comfortable as possible. So the more you can do it, and the more options you can give people to reach out to you the better.

Mike (23:26):

So the fascinating point there is that a lot of people, when they’re having appointment book is, will just acquire a name and a phone number and an email address, but they won’t acquire additional information. So what you’re doing here is you’re setting up a way for people to give you additional information that will help you decide how much nurturing I need to do, how much contacting I need to do, what problems I maybe need to solve in advance to get this person in the door. I mean, that’s a really interesting. You might want to try something like that, where finding out from people, because a lot of times we see appointments not show up. We have no idea why. You know, if this person said, Oh man, I’m so scared of injuring myself. I’m worried I have an old back injury. I don’t want to hurt myself again. You know, already what this person is worried about. You can reach out, give them some assurances, send them some resources, do some education. That person’s going to be so much more likely to show up. And if he or she doesn’t show up, you probably know why, and you can even reach out again and say, Hey, you know, is your back getting worse or better? Like you have this communication point already. So this is just a fascinating system that you’ve got.

Pep (24:29):

Yeah. Thanks. I mean, it works. It works really well. And I think, like you said, it’s just very convenient for people. And I mean, obviously if they don’t show up, we call them directly. So you don’t want to wait with that. So we wait if people, or wait. So when people book an appointment with us or when people become a lead and they don’t book an appointment, we have 24 hour window in which we contact them. However, if they’ve set an appointment and they don’t show up, we call them directly just, I mean, it’s also sounds really simple, but you should, because it lets the person know like, Hey, I actually missed you. I was looking forward to meet you. What happened? You know, some people might be stuck in traffic. They might be late or sometimes they might totally forgot. So I mean, we’ve had this happen as well where people just totally forgot the week or the date or whatever, but then it becomes really easy to just reschedule and you’ll be having a good conversation, which will make the next time that you have or makes the time, if you have rescheduled to that much easier to know that they’ll show up.

Mike (25:38):

So I’m going to guess that when you have this information from leads, you can probably use that in your sales meetings or your introductions. So I’m going to ask about, I’m going to move on and ask about close rate. And this is one where, you know, this is the sexy number. You closed, 28 of 39 people bought from you after they booked appointments for 72% close rate. That’s a great number. I understand that you’re I think doing all the intro sessions, correct?

Pep (26:02):

Yeah. At this point I do.

Mike (26:03):

  1. So let’s talk a little bit, just give, walk me through your introductory session. What happens when someone arrives and how does this whole thing go and how does this, you know, sales meeting or introductory consultation go? Are there any aspects that you think are particularly important to that close rate?

Pep (26:19):

Yeah, so one of the things that we actually do, so we have a one hour appointment. So in this appointment we have basically the no sweat part, but we also have, we added a sweat part. So, I’m gonna add to that, coming back to that in a moment. So what happens is first when somebody shows up, obviously we’ll be waiting for them at the door, so once they come to the door, they don’t have to search or don’t have to look or be like, Oh, where do I, where do I have to go? Or in that kind of scenario where you’re just waiting for somebody to come talk to you. So, so we’ll be ready and make sure that they’ll end up once they step through the door, that we’ll be greeting them kindly and energetically.

Pep (27:04):

And then, just guide them through the gym. And then we have a different room, which we used together with our physio. So it’s a very, very private, easy, nice, room in which we can just sit down and talk. So I think the private part here is very important because people, we’ll ask a lot of questions. So when people are talking to you, you want them to be very comfortable in talking about basically everything that I’ve been scared of them or that’s worrying them or that they have going on. So the private part is very important. Also. Obviously we, I also start with some easy icebreaker, so I’ll just ask them like, was it easy to find, or did you have to come from far?

Pep (27:53):

Where do you live? How did you find us? Oh, if you do know any members have you done CrossFit before, so just some easy easygoing, small talk just to get them to talk. And it’s basically our goal to let them talk as much as possible. So it’s going to give us more and more information. So we’ll ask, we have a, just obviously a questionnaire in which we’ll ask about their training background about, have they done CrossFit? Have they done any type of fitness before? Have they done, are they doing currently any training or have they been training during the whole COVID situation or haven’t they, we also ask about any injuries or if they have had any injuries in the past. So sometimes people will say, well, I don’t have any injuries. Have you had injuries in the past?

Pep (28:43):

Yeah, well, my back hurts every couple months and it’s been bothering me for 10 years. So you have to have to dig in those questions a little bit. Often, we’ll also talk about their nutrition habits. So, people obviously have trouble with good nutrition habits. So we’ll talk about those. And then obviously the goals are the most important and we’ll always discuss those very deeply in the last part. So since you have all that background information, you can then ask just better questions once they get through to the goal part. And one of those things is very important. It’s also, we also always ask if they have any questions prepared or if they have any concerns about the things that we do or that we have to do.

Pep (29:33):

So sometimes, we often get people that are acquaintances from members, but often those members will only say, well, CrossFit is really cool. You should really book an appointment at the gym. You should train there, but they don’t explain anything. So people are very, very blank one day when they come. So they often have questions about just very simple stuff. Like how does, how does it work? How does the training go? I heard you do a training every, switch of training every day. So every day’s a different workout or how does that work? And often they’ll, since we don’t have price on a website, they’ll ask us always what our prices. So obviously you should be really comfortable about talking about this. So I think that’s a no brainer, but that’s also good to add. So everything that you do talk about, you should be really comfortable talking about.

Mike (30:27):

So before you go further, I’m just going to point out three things that you did right away that I think are very important here for other gym owners. You’ve personalized the experience and like, how cool is it when they walk up, they see you waiting at the door as opposed to like having to ring a bell or like knock on an office door or wait for someone to show up and greet them like that alone would say something to me about the gym that I’m walking into. And that’s a really cool, personalized touch that you’ve got, which I think is neat. You’re also doing, you know, in a private room, private professional room, you’re continuing that experience where you’re getting to know this person with rapport building. And the other thing that you said that I really want to emphasize, you’re asking tons of questions, acquiring information, and letting the person talk. And that gives you just so much that you can then, you know, learn about this person and figure how you’re going to sell. So those are the three things that, Jeff Burlingame, our sales expert has talked about on this podcast and on YouTube a lot of times, but you hit on them. And the one I really like is just that meeting people at the door. So now take me further in your process and tell me a little more.

Pep (31:25):

So once we’re finished with the no sweat part, we’ll do a sweat part. So, they have to just bring sports clothes, they bring water, and we have a specific section in the gym where it’s very, so we actually have a gym where, we have a second floor in which you can look into into the gym basically. So once we go upstairs and we’re in a private bit of a private space where, nobody’s bothering us and we can just do this, do this one-on-one one kind of session, but on the other hand they’ll see, and they’ll know everything that’s going on in the gym. So to get a really good feel of the gym of the vibe of the atmosphere and how people are being coached basically.

Pep (32:14):

So I think that that’s also one of the advantages of our gym, just the layout. So one of the things that we do during our sweat part is we customize it to the individual. So since we asked a lot of questions about their background and where they’re coming from, we can easily adjust our pre-written program basically to the person. So obviously the warmup is always the same then the skill part in which we’re doing some squat variation, some type of press variation, and some type of deadlift variation is all very laid out. But then since we, it’s giving us basically the opportunity to screen the person. So we’ll have a good understanding of how they move, if they have any mobility issues, if they have any strength deficiencies, where people might be having trouble just pressing a bar overhead.

Pep (33:14):

And we can also really showcase our coaching style. So, I think that’s one of the easy things, as well as, I mean, we’re coaches, we’re basically coaching experts. So, getting people a feel for your expertise, I think is very, very helpful. Then, we adjust the workouts to the person so that it is a little bit challenging, but it’s nothing to where they can’t walk for three days and thinking, Oh my God, this is nothing for me. I’m not going to be able to, uh, to adjust to this training whatsoever. So, obviously we always scale it down a little bit too much where it’s comfortable, but just a tiny bit challenging where they feel like, OK, I have to work for this. And since then, it’s very easy because you already know their training background.

Pep (34:03):

You already know if they have done a lot of conditioning or if they have done a lot of squatting beforehand. And I mean, once you’ve see people move through a warmup, you’ll get the full picture and you’ll know what to, what to do basically. So, we adjusted very easily. So our base workout is basically four time, 20 cals on the assault bike, 40 squats, 30 sit-ups, 20 deadlifts, and then 10 pushups. So all with barbell, no weights whatsoever, and we’ll adjust the, the amount of reps or the exercises in some cases to the person. So sometimes we’ll have people do more calories. Sometimes we have to lower the squatting. I mean, if somebody hasn’t been squatting at all and then you’re going to do 40 squats is going to be way too hard, even though it might be just body weight.

Pep (34:59):

So you have to have to be careful with the volume on those exercises. So that’s what we basically do for our sweat part. So I think the important part for us is that afterwards, once we sit down and we basically discuss the, basically do the selling part, we can actually give a very good advice and very proper advice and what we would recommend for them to do. So based on what we see, we can say, OK, well, I would recommend three one-on-one sessions before starting our group classes as a ramp-up or we could say, well, maybe eight sessions would be very nice or maybe somebody would be, is already a very experienced. And we would say, well, you have done two years of CrossFit already. You move really well.

Pep (35:47):

They got a really good feel for coaching style. And then we can just recommend them going through a group classes three times a week instead of two or whatever. So I think this small, basically this big investment of extra time repays itself, for better service, because we can give better advice. And, once they do become members, we can actually offer a better coaching experience since we have all this background information and we have all this screening stuff that we have done, so I can share this. And we do share this with all of our coaches, so that once person X is coming to the group classes for the first time, then every coach already knows what to do, what to scale, if somebody has any injuries, or if somebody is a bit scared for weights, then they have all that information so they can just provide better coaching. So I think those are our very big pluses for us. And it is true that it takes more time, but I mean, it makes the selling way, way easier for us.

Mike (36:57):

Yeah. There’s a ton of amazing stuff in there. So I’m going to ramble a little bit of this just for people. And it’s, you’re basically, you’ve shown like an evolution of selling in a CrossFit gym, right? Because originally back in the day, a lot of us, myself included I was guilty of this. We did a free trial and someone came in and we gave them a workout. It was usually the same for everyone. It was often that baseline workout that everyone knows or was something else. And we just said, do you want to join? And that was it. And the free trial like that, that free trial drop in hasn’t worked for since like about 2010 or something. Chris Cooper wrote that it has worked a little bit in the post COVID period, but in general free drop-in workouts aren’t the best way to sell CrossFit anymore.

Mike (37:39):

So, we have gyms around the world, they’re using the no sweat intro, which people come in and they talk and you prescribed them through our prescriptive model, what they need to accomplish their goals. So we’ve laid out this whole system in our mentorship, and that’s very common. We also have what you just described, the sweat intro, and that’s not quite as common yet, but I think after people listen to your podcast here, they might start trying it because it’s working. The really cool part about this is you have that conversation. Then you bring them into the gym and you give them a short workout in which you can customize it. You’re doing an awesome job of tailoring this to them, showing your coaching expertise, not annihilating them. A a really cool thing that you’ve done here too, is you set up the safe observation space where they’re basically like a bird in the nest, right?

Mike (38:24):

Like they’re above the gym, they’re looking down at stuff, but they’re not like right in the thick of the chaos downstairs. So they can observe from a distance in a safe spot with a friend, rather than being tossed into some crazy environment where there’s some like guy with massive triceps, deadlifting 550 pounds, you know, so that’s a really interesting thing. And then after that, you’re sitting down and selling and you’re giving you’re using that prescriptive model to give them exactly what they need, but you’re basing it, not just on your conversation, but where you physically observed it during their workout. So this is incredible. The no sweat intro plus the sweat intro, which we do teach you how to do in the Two-Brain mentorship program. It’s fascinating. And I haven’t talked to a gym owner who’s used this with so much success. So for you seeing people move in that environment and then be able to talk to them afterward, that really helps.

Pep (39:13):

Yeah. It’s tremendous. I mean, I think it makes a really big, a big difference because people will, you’ll spend more time, so they have more time just building trust and building a relationship. So I think that extra time really translates well into into the selling part and into providing better service.

Mike (39:36):

And here’s the question for you, you know, when you’ve done a workout with a group and at the end of the workout, everyone sits down together and y’all high five and you say, Oh, it was so horrible. And you’re all smiling and happy. Do you feel like having that workout experience with that client makes him or her more receptive to your pitches afterward than if they were just sitting in your office talking?

Pep (39:54):

For sure. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think for sure, I’m really positive. So I’ve actually had experience in where people would do the no sweat intro part. So then at the end they would ask about our prices and we will lay them out and then they would be in shock, like, Oh, I didn’t expect that. And then we do the training part and then we’re done with the training and they sign up directly and they’re very happy and they just want to want to get going. So, so I think the one of the key things about this is people will have also a better understanding of what they actually buy and what they actually get. So, I mean, it’s a bit of the same thing as if you were to buy a car. I mean, if you never drove the car, you really don’t know if you 100% like it, but if you have a test drive and you really liked the car, you’re just going to buy it on the spot the same day. So I think that that part really makes it easier to sell. So obviously it’s a bigger investment, but I mean, for us, it works out really well.

Mike (41:03):

And the key really is what you’re doing around that test drive. So to speak, because if you just gave them that test drive, they might find oh this car is too much car for me. I don’t like it or whatever, but instead you’re giving them, you know, we’ll use the car analogy, you’re giving them the exact right car to drive. You’re telling them how to drive it. Oh, you know it veers a little bit to the left here, take this turn in the road. You’re giving them all the perspective that they need to understand what this test drive is, as opposed to what I did in 2012, when I just tossed someone into a workout, didn’t tell them anything in advance, didn’t say anything afterwards. And they were like, I didn’t like that. And they didn’t understand that it could be customized and modified. They didn’t understand that they can do group training or personal training. They didn’t understand that we had nutrition services. So you’re giving them a whole frame around this picture that they get and allowing them to try before they buy, but with guidance and perspective.

Pep (41:50):

Yeah. I mean, those are some really key points that you addressed there. So the whole part around, that’s the biggest thing. And a test drive is a nice touch.

Mike (42:03):

Let me ask you this. As we close out, can you keep these numbers up going forward? Is there anything specific you’re going to do to keep trying to keep them up?

Pep (42:09):

So at this point we’ve repeated these numbers more or less for four consecutive months. So we’ve had, so we basically have a set rate of 30 to 40. We have a 95% show up, a 70 to 80% close rate. So those are very stable, stable numbers. So I think we’re actually, at this point, we don’t have any plans on pushing those numbers, especially the set rate on pushing those. So we don’t actually want to grow at a very, very high rate for the next coming month. So what actually is one of our challenges now is just making sure that our coaches are able to do these sessions and producing those same numbers basically, so that we can create just a more stable and sustainable business. So for the last couple of months, obviously I’ve done a lot of these hour sessions, but then, it’s not very sustainable for long-term. If you look at it as a year’s perspective.

Mike (43:15):

Yeah, exactly. You’ve pretty much got your system figured out because your numbers are incredible. Now you need to replicate you and get someone else to do it so that you can do other stuff. So that’s, I mean, that’s exactly what we talk about. As you systematize your stuff, then you teach it to other people the checklist. And then the goal is eventually to get someone in your position who can match your numbers, or even beat them if you find the right person so that you can move on to grow the business in other ways. All right. So the final thing I’m going to ask you is someone out there, there are lots of gym owners that are just struggling with set show and close rates. If they’re just having a rough time, what advice would you give them? What is one thing that that gym owner can do today to start improving these numbers?

Pep (43:53):

So the first thing is just look at your own service and offer. So if you’re not really comfortable with the things that you’re offering or that your service is providing, then it’s going to be really hard to sell. So being very comfortable with the thing that you’re offering is obviously very important. And then secondly, is looking at the numbers and then looking at the missing link. So what is actually the thing that is holding you back? Is it the set rate, is it the show up rate, is it the close rate? And then yeah. Get advice on how to improve those numbers. And then start implementing. It’s sometimes very scary to implement new stuff and try new things. But once you start doing, then you’ll figure it out. So it’s basically what we’ve done as well is we just started. And then we’ve figured it out more or less over the course of a couple months. So I think that’s one of the things that is that’s very important doing, doing, and trying.

Mike (44:54):

I love that you’re telling people to track their numbers, analyze things, and then take steps based on what they see, because a lot of people shoot in the dark. This gives them a target. If people want some resources, you’re not ready to work with a mentor yet, head to free tools. We have tons of marketing resources in there that will teach you how to do some of this stuff. That’s all free. If you are looking for somebody to teach you how to do this, you can do that at twobrainbusiness.com. You can book a call with a mentor, find out how a mentor will help you work on these things. Pep, thank you so much for sharing. I really think that if people listen to this episode, gym owners are going to find some really interesting things that they can try at their gyms to improve these numbers. Thank you so much for your time.

Pep (45:31):

Thank you so much for having me. And well talk again.

Mike (45:36):

We will, I want to see if these numbers stay consistent, they’re amazing.

Pep (45:39):

Yeah, well, I hope so. I hope so. I think we’ll get it.

Mike (45:43):

I think so too. I mean, you’ve done it for four months straight, so I only see things getting better and I can’t wait to hear what happens down the road. Thank you so much. That was Pep Leppers on Two-Brain Radio. I’m your host Mike Warkentin. Want to improve more marketing without spending a dime? Head to twobrainbusiness.com and click free tools to get our Broke Gym Owner’s guide to marketing. That’s free tools on twobrainbusiness.com. For more episodes of Two-Brain Radio, please hit subscribe.


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