Lindsey VanSchoyck dropped macros for habit-based nutrition coaching, and she more than doubled her revenue this year. Find out how she did it in this episode of Two-Brain Radio, featuring audio from a recent webinar with Lindsey, registered dietician, Jen Broxterman and host Eden Watson.
We know that getting clients results isn’t enough to make a great business or a great career, but it is the foundation. If you’re not getting your clients results, none of the other stuff matters. Your marketing plan, your operations plan, your retention plan, your systems, how much you care about the clients. You need to get them results. What does it take to get a client results? Long-term behavior change, short-term habit change. It means learning skills like motivational interviewing, peer-to-peer programming. It means focusing on things like adherence and retention instead of novelty. And I built twobraincoaching.com with my partner, Josh Martin, to teach coaches how to do this. More than ever before it is critical to get results for your clients. You need to charge a premium fee. You need to provide high value to warrant that fee. And what is most valuable to the client? What do they care about the most? The results on the goal that they choose. Twobraincoaching.com has programs set up to help your clients achieve those goals. We will train you and your coaches to deliver personal training, group training, online training, nutrition coaching, and coming soon, mindset coaching, in a way that’s simple for you to adopt, it’s legal everywhere. And it’s super effective. These courses were built by experts with years of experience getting clients results. Twobraincoaching.com is a labor of love for me, and I know you’re going to love it too.
I am joined by Lindsey VanSchoyck and Jennifer Broxterman. Lindsey is our Two-Brain nutrition coaching specialist, as you guys know, and Jen Broxterman is a mentor with Two-Brain Coaching, and she also wrote the nutrition course for Two-Brain Coaching. And I want to dive right into the evolution of nutrition coaching with you guys. So Jen, you’re a registered dietician. Why don’t you start off by explaining the difference between habits coaching and what people are more familiar with, the dieting or the counting of macros?
Yeah. So in basically habits-based coaching, the nutrition program is more meeting the client where they’re at than expecting the client to meet you where you want them to be. So you’re sitting down and exploring kind of like where they’re already motivated to make some changes, where they can get some easy wins. We use a lot of the language around what are they ready, willing, and able to do. And then as the coach, you’re almost creating a ladder where you just help fill in the rungs of like, what’s the next step? How do we make it just a little bit better? So it might be that they commit to eating vegetables once or twice a day, you know, for a month and getting into that rhythm. Or it might be, you know, adding a glass of water when they get up first thing in the morning. So as opposed to giving them a set number that they have to track and get to every day, you’re basically with the client picking what little skill are they ready to work on next? And then setting up things that they can add versus things they have to subtract and take away to make their life just a little bit healthier.
That sounds good. I could do that.
Right. It’s a little bit more manageable.
Lindsey. Let’s jump over to you. You’re a gym owner and you’re a nurse practitioner. Tell us what benefits you’ve seen yourself when you’ve made this change from habit-based coaching in your gym.
Just more consistency, right? Like people have a hard time tracking their calories. Just cause they’re busy moms. And like in our gym, the average client’s like middle-aged woman probably, which is probably the same for like a lot of gyms. And so they’re like struggling with the job and family and all that type of stuff. So like trying to get them to track their food in MyFitnessPal is like crazy overwhelming to them. Or they would track like Monday through Friday and then on the weekends, just like not track anything because they’re just like going out and having fun. So just like it’s way more consistent and it’s way easier for them to do, which allows them to get like a lot better results. And they stick with the nutrition program a lot longer because it’s not super complicated.
Better results. And they stick with it. Cause I would find that overwhelming, I think to try to track all the, the calories or any of that stuff, if I just wanted to get started, it makes sense that habit based stuff seems to make sense.
And especially if you have someone that’s OCD, like I have clients before that would like, it would keep them up at night. They were trying to like log their food from the day before to hit their macro numbers. Like that’s not healthy. So you’re almost setting them up to like have a not healthy relationship with food anyways, because it’s not realistic to track your macros for the rest your life.
- Yeah. That’s a good point. Yeah. Why would a gym consider making this change, Lindsey, from the counting, the macros or the diet plans or the keto or whatever, to more habit based coaching?
Well, one, your clients are going to stick around a lot longer because they’re going to get better results. Plus it helps, like if you throw everything at your client at once, like if you throw out meal plans and macros, and this is what a carb is, what a protein is, and this is how sleep affects your, like you’re throwing so much information at them. Like they can’t even process it. So if you break it up into chunks, like they’re going to stick with you a lot longer too, because they’re constantly having something to learn. So you’re just like building blocks, building blocks, building blocks, building blocks, where if you throw everything out at once, like they don’t need you after three months because, Oh, I’ve got this figured out when they do really still need you because they haven’t built the base of foundation, like the foundational base.
So if they’re counting macros, like they might be like, Oh, I can do this on my own. But then they try to do it on their own for a month and they completely get overwhelmed with life. So they stop tracking macros and they never learned anything about nutrition. So they never learned those habits or those things that they really needed to learn about nutrition. So if by switching from like doing macros to habit you’re going to keep your clients a lot longer. You’re going to get them a lot better results because it’s easier for them to do. And you’re also just like helping them build a lot healthier relationships with food.
Right. Which is what we talk about helping first. Like it’s at the core of what we do. I it easy to implement this?
So much easier than doing macros. So like when I was coaching macros, like once a week, I’d have to like go into MyFitnessPal, look over their food, make sure they were like eating foods that I thought were like, they weren’t just doing it meets your macros. Right? Like you’d have to like give them suggestions, like don’t eat cookies for your carbs, make sure you’re eating fruits and vegetables. And so like I would spend probably like 20 minutes a week on each client, like through their MyFitnessPal, trying to give them feedback. When you’re working on habits, like from a coaching perspective, it’s so much easier to track habits.
- Yeah. I’m sold. Cause it’s easier for the gym owner to actually run this. Whereas the other style is a lot more time consuming to dive into per client. Yeah. I can see that. Jen, do you have more to add on why the gym owner might consider making this change, given your nutritional coaching perspective?
Yeah. So I’ve been doing this for 10 years inside of a CrossFit gym. So I’m pretty familiar with the ecosystem. And I started off like everyone else. You think your clients want meal plans and you know, macros and I have the RD title that I don’t even have to worry about the liability piece because I’m insured, I’ve gone to school, it’s within my scope of practice. So one thing to think about if you are in the gym industry, but you don’t have an RD on staff is you may or may not actually be allowed in your geographical area to do that formatting, with nutrition counseling.
And you have to remember it doesn’t matter who writes the meal plan. It doesn’t matter if a dietician writes a meal plan and gives it to your gym. It is actually the coach giving the advice to the client who the liability falls back on them. So it just kind of like you can’t borrow your pharmacist’s license to like start prescribing or administering drugs. Can’t borrow your family doctor’s license to be like, Oh, the doctor said this antidepressant’s OK. Right. Have to remember, do you have the title or not? Are you insured? Are you, are you liable? Right. So the nice thing with habits-based coaching is around the world, we’ve done the research. We worked with our lawyers, our insurance agents, as long as you’re providing general wellness, healthy eating tips that don’t encroach on do this because you have this disease, you can do that with just a regular, you know, personal trainer, as long as you have some insurance to cover nutrition coaching, right?
You don’t need the full RD title. So similar to what Lindsey said, it’s way easier for the clients. It’s a lot better for the coaches. And then I’m going to touch a little bit on the financial piece. So back when I started and I was a dietician, still am, thought, you know, meal plans and macros were the way to go. You think that’s what clients want.
They need the gold standard essentially.
Exactly. And so similar to Lindsey, it was kind of like analysis paralysis. I just was so excited. I shared so much information. I gave so much at them. I asked them to do so much. I was coaching for me. I wasn’t actually coaching for the clients. Financially, I couldn’t figure out why. I couldn’t keep people around more than three to four to five months. And working my butt off, I was making 20 to 40, $40,000 a year in nutrition coaching revenue, like not great from a livelihood perspective. There was this really distinct uptick where my business income started to really go off.
And it went from about 40,000 a year to 80 to 90, to a hundred to 130 150. I think we’re on track to do 180 to $200,000 in nutrition-coaching sales this year, stopping macros and MyFitnessPal counting and learning about motivational interviewing, which is embedded into habits based coaching.
And you’ve embedded that into the Two-Brain Coaching course.
Exactly. I basically wanted to show other gyms how to get those same results to sell well over a hundred thousand dollars a year in nutrition coaching and keep in mind I was doing this part-time because I was working as a university prof in foods and nutrition, researching and learning about this. And I just did this as a little side gig at our CrossFit box. And it was still bringing in more than six figures a year as a side part-time thing.
So, it’s amazing what it does, not only for the clients, but for gyms as an extra source of revenue and our little nutrition office takes up almost no space. And we always joke that if the building burnt down, very first thing we would rebuild is our nutrition center because it has very limited overhead in terms of like file folders and paper and a desk and a chair. And you know, not the expensive equipment costs, but the, you know, length of engagement and the amount of money it brings in per member. Holy smokes, does this, you know, is this an amazing profit center for our business.
Wow. It sounds to me too, like a lot of coaches try to over-coach, they try to deliver like the coaching that they think people need. They really want to know about posterior chain, this, that, and the other when they’re doing lifts. But sometimes people need you to bring it down a notch. Is that kind of how habits coaching is?
A thousand percent. I say in the course a few times beginners complicate, experts simplify. So the mark of a really good coach, the mark even of a really good client is they know how to simplify things down to the one or two things you’re going to focus on at a time you’re actually going to execute with consistency. So we call it voting for your best self. We ask people to put in reps every day, but it’s just one or two things. So the rep this day might be, you know, I’m really gonna work on getting half my plate vegetables, every lunch, every dinner, 80% of this month. And then people come back with their little scoreboard checked off like yeah, two check marks a day means veggies twice a day. Or maybe you were working on the food prep routine on Sundays. So on their little scoreboard, they write the word prep and every box that says Sunday. And so for that month, they just have check marks twice a day. And then prep just shows up once in the weekend to be like, yep, I got some snacks organized from work. I chopped up some vegetables. I like cooked up a sheet pan of some chicken and some other healthy things. And they’re like, Whoa. So it’s bright spot coaching. You’re giving them the next little thing that they can do and succeed and come back and be like, yes, I did that versus information overload, counting overload. And then they feel like they don’t always succee. And you have people burying their head in the sand. Like Lindsey said, they track on a good day and they won’t record on a bad day. So you get false positive information, the data isn’t even workable because you’re not getting the full picture because they’re embarrassed. You set them up to fail. They feel like they weren’t good enough. Or when there’s shame involved with food. And we always try to break down shame. Like, I don’t know if you can see the three little words over my shoulder.
What does it say?
Be curious, be kind, and be honest. Right? So that’s how we work with our clients. And we just say, we’re going to build it. Curiosity, kindness, and honesty, a habit at a time. And we’re just giving you a ladder with the rungs to climb next rung, next rung, next rung. So you just keep going up, but always super successfully.
Lindsey, I gotta ask you like, is it this easy? Like I know Jen’s, she works at Western and the university telling the stuff she’s been doing it for 10 years. Is it this easy when you do it in practice?
Yeah. I mean, once you get the hang of it, like it’s super easy. So like Jen’s super busy too, but like I have 30 nutrition clients myself, plus I mentor for Two-Brain plus I work a full-time nurse practitioner job. And like, it’s completely manageable for me to have that many clients like coaching habits. Like if I tried to do macros and do all that stuff, like, no, it wouldn’t be, I wouldn’t be able to do that. Like, it’s just not realistic.
So have you taken on more clients then because it’s simplified your life?
Lindsey, you should share your really cool story of just what’s happened in this year alone because I just think what your results speak to is so amazing. Lindsey’s also a superstar in general, but yeah, she’s amazing. Her gym is amazing.
We had a really good nutrition program prior to doing habits. Like, but it’s just like we would be, we were constantly getting clients in. They were sticking around for the three month commitment and then they were like, OK, I know what I’m doing. Like I’m done. So like we had a solid like foundation and we had a solid like revenue stream. It’s just, our LEG was like not sticking around at all. So we switched to habits in January. Like we dropped our meal plans, we dropped macros. We kind of just transitioned to doing more habits based. And so like, our revenue has went from 56,000 last year to, I think it’s 116 this year and we still have two months to go. And our LEG has went from like three to four months to almost 11 months. So most of my clients stick around for like a year.
Like it’s been almost a year now that they’re not leaving. And so like, we just did a six week nutrition challenge. And I think we had 20 people sign up and 75% of them converted to ongoing or to like individualized nutrition plan. Because the feedback we got was like, and this is the first time we’ve ever done a habits-based nutrition challenge. The feedback we got was like, Oh my gosh, this is so easy. Like I’ve done Weight Watchers in the past. I’ve done all these other things where I have to count things in the past. And this is something that I can do and I’m learning and it’s super easy for me to do. And so like, all those clients are now like they’re going into their third month with me and they’re not even thinking about leaving the program. Like they’re just transitioning over right away.
The people that joined this challenge, were they from outside of the gym? OK. That was one question. And what happened in January when you made the switch to healthy habits? Did all of your macros counting folks fall off or?
No, we let them stay with macros if they wanted to. But like we transitioned a lot of them off of it, right. Because we met with them, like when it hit their next check-in, we met with them and we’re like, is this feasible for you to do? Like, I noticed that you’re tracking well during the week, and then you’re falling off on the weekends or you’re tracking like maybe a lunch and dinner and you’re not tracking any of your snacks. A lot of them, we just transitioned over to habits based and they are so much happier now that we aren’t doing.
I was going to say it’s way easier. And those people, they still see success.
Yeah. So we actually had our first hundred-pound weight loss. He’s at like 96.4 pounds right now started a year ago yesterday. And so he’s almost lost a hundred pounds just doing habits based coaching.
Oh my gosh.
I have a 65-year-old that I’ve done purely just habits with for the past six months. And she’s lost 42 pounds of fat and 18% body fat in just six months. And so she now has her whole family, like I coach her whole entire family on nutrition habits based. Now, like she refers everyone to me.
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That’s incredible. Oh, and you were telling me you get referrals from doctors based on results. Tell us about that.
Yeah. So I promise they don’t come because I’m a nurse practitioner and I work with them. Like it’s not from that. Like a lot of our clients will go back to their doctor and be like, have good lab work, have their insulin decreased or have this weight loss. And so the doctors like start referring them to us instead of—they even refer them to us instead of our hospital’s weight loss program, because our hospital’s weight loss program is fricking ridiculous. It’s like drink these two shakes and eat a thousand calories a day and it’s not like feasible at all.
Even I know that that’s not correct.
Right. Why are we even teaching that? So, and they know that like most dietician practices, right? Like they’re meeting with them for an hour, giving them some suggestions, but there’s not accountability with it. And that’s what people are missing. And so, they’re referring them to us for the accountability aspect because they know like we’re going to keep them on track. It’s not going to be a whole month where they’ve not spoken to anyone and they’ve just completely fallen off the wagon.
Yeah. Well, those weight-loss stories that you just shared or those numbers stories that you just shared are so amazing. And that one client that’s just been with you six months and having so much success and then referring the whole family. Do they go to the gym as well? Or are they solely just the nutrition? Wow, that’s incredible. Jen. I know you’re a self-proclaimed book nerd and are super into all the trends that are going on in this dietician industry or this nutrition coaching industry. What are you noticing in terms of trends?
Well, I do think there’s more adoption of this habit-based motivational interviewing. So if you look at some of the really popular books that have come out in the last year, like James Clear Atomic Habits, that’s one that comes to mind. The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg is another one, even with Precision Nutrition. So I worked really closely with them in 2018 and sat on their panel and reviewed their whole level one curriculum. I went through the whole textbook, every single word, every single page. And they basically said, how do we bring more motivational interviewing, habit based behavior change, the behavior change psychology. Like I always say it’s about food, but it’s not about food. So a really good nutrition coach yes, has to be educated in the science of healthy eating and nutrition, but really what you are is you are an accountability partner, a guide, an expert in helping people change behaviors, helping people adopt new habits and give up bad habits are things that don’t serve them as well as, you know, they would hope they would.
I just want to highlight what you said about the Atomic Habits book and some of these very popular books that are coming out. So our clients or our members are becoming familiar with that psychology or some of that habits coaching. So it’s an easy sell or an easy shift to have them do it around food.
Yeah, exactly. And so there is so much research to back up this form of coaching. And then what Lindsey and I worked really hard on, and what we did in the course is I basically wanted to just give people 10 years of my life work. So instead of you having to like recreate it, like we talk about how we focus way below the iceberg on mindset shifts, building powerful, supportive environments, then that feeds daily and weekly good habits where most people try to change behavior on their own by learning about something on the internet. So the knowledge phase, and then trying to like white-knuckle apply it with willpower. So like I’m going to go keto, I’m going to do intermittent fasting and you know, and then they fail and they fall off the wagon. So we have just like a few page, a page of some simple habits and we teach them about the healthy plate and you know, this isn’t a meal plan, but we call it meal and snack inspiration. And there’s lots here with snacks and veggies. And so a lot of our clients go home, literally with this back page, they get to keep the book, but they’re working on one or two things for the month. And then we use a really open, fun, like goal chart that they just make up little symbols. It could be happy, faces, stars, checkmarks, words, or using an app like coach catalyst, where the coach can program the habit into an app. And it’s kind of two way communication through a phone. And I think Lindsey correct me if I’m wrong, you just took this book and went with it in your most recent habit based challenge. And it was just kind of like a done for you, ready to go with your clients. And it was, you know, your best challenge you’ve ever had yet. So we wanted to make it A really easy for clients. But B, Chris Cooper and Josh Martin brought me in and said, can you just make this easier for our gyms? Like what is plug and play that they can keep and own for life, but sets them up. Or if they have practice that’s established, like Lindsey, give them some new tools that they can refresh with to even see, you know, better results—
Better length of engagenemt.
Exactly. It’s not like you threw everything you created in the garbage, like Lindsey didn’t do that. She just added more good stuff to what was already working really well.
Right. But yeah, that’s a really good point. And it seems to me, like we said before, sometimes the coaches try to over-complicate or can have, they don’t mean to, but they may over-complicate some of the lifting and some of the other things, and I guess gym owners might be over-complicating the nutrition program itself that resides in their gym. So you’ve made it dead ease.
The thing that I’m getting the most, on office hours and specialist calls, it’s like, how do I transition to this habits based coaching? And it’s not like, literally it’s not that big of a transition. Like you just, like your new clients that you bring in, you don’t start with macros. Like you start with habits. And then when you’re meeting with those old clients, it’s kind of transitioning them off of macros. So maybe like, awesome. You’ve tracked your macros for three months and you’ve had really good results, but we know that you can’t do this forever. So why don’t we just try, like maybe tracking your dinners and see if you’re still gonna get good results. Because a lot of them it’s like control. Like if I quit tracking my macros, I’m gonna gain all this weight back. Slowly transitioning them off those macros and teaching them the habits while you’re doing it to like get them to a like, the whole goal is for you not to have a nutrition client for the rest of their life. Like we want to have that relationship with them, like one, two, three years. Like we don’t want to coach them for 10 years. Right? So like over the course of those one to three years, you want to teach them all the habits that you can to get them to where they can do it on their own. Right. And so they can’t do that counting macros. So like it’s easy to transition them off of that.
And I, to weirdly jump in and defend macros for a second, because we’re not saying macros are like the devil. What I always say with clients that have tracked macros in the past is like, what a cool way to collect data about yourself, become more aware of portion sizes, become more aware of what’s in your food and how that adds up. And then we can take that data. And now start to actually come up with a plan of what are we going to do about it. So kind of like, you know, if you’ve log in every day and you check your bank balance and you can get so obsessed with like, what does that number say? Well, if the goal is say, someone’s working on building wealth, if you check your bank balance every day, it doesn’t solve the wealth issue. But if you find a way to get a raise, you know, add more value at work, maybe create a side hustle, those actions, those habits are ultimately what create more wealth while also looking at your spending out, than the person who’s compulsively logging in and checking their bank balance. Like if you have no idea what you’re spending, yes. Check your credit card statements, check your bank balance, get data from numbers. Then once you’ve collected the data about yourself, translate it into positive behavior change that will lead you in the direction of your goals. So I’m not anti macros, but I look at it as it’s a data collection phase, let’s learn more about yourself. So then we can turn it into a plan of action. So long-term, you can be really healthy, right?
Wow. Yeah. That that’s eye-opening. That’s really interesting. So you’ve both spoken to the fact that this is sustainable long-term, that this is actually helping clients, that they are sticking around your gyms for a long time because of it, it makes it way easier. And the transition changing from macros or even adding a nutrition program in general with habits based is much more simple. And I know Lindsey’s been helping a lot of folks on the office hours to roll this out in their gyms. And she’s had a lot of folks booking individual calls with her to help them start up their nutrition program or reformat their nutrition program. If the mentors on the line have anybody who’s worked with her, you can certainly post in the comments or raise your hand to ask questions now I want to open up the floor to the folks that are on the call with us. Jen, do you have anything to add around the online coaching course itself? I know you’ve seen a lot of success with folks going through, they’reimplementing nutrition program at their gyms already.
It’s been amazing to see it start to get implemented and take off. So it’s not as much work as you think. It’s basically if you’ve taken anything like a precision nutrition level one, this is like the finishing polishing last like month of it. So it’s 11 hours of videos over 20 topics. And then three one-on-one mentoring calls with myself or a dietician on my team. So you get individual feedback to your gym, your clients, where your program’s at. And we normally get people through the course in about one month’s time. And because it has like 40, 50 resources, new client information books that you can print and use and give out right away, tons of handouts that are habit based. And then kind of like, a done for you package of like plug and play. And you’ve got like a nutrition practice ready to load. We’re seeing people pivot and get a program up off the ground in three weeks and start working with clients. Most people make their initial investment back within the first one to two months. And because we’re not a subscription, like you buy it and you own it forever. You have the videos forever. You have the resources forever. We actually just did a full year of social media and nutrition and lifestyle and wellness content. So it’s like 137 posts for the year. So like two to three posts a week done for you with images, with copy, with marketing. So if you need something to just get your nutrition program off the ground, it’s like 10 times worth what we’ve asked for it. And I think the gyms that have gone on board have really already seen the value.
Wonderful. And I know we have, on our side, we have the nutrition coaching highway that shows the client exactly how to implement this in their gym. So it takes what you’re teaching and applies it. And we’ve got a whole bunch of social media images that they can drop into their social and promote this, you know, this habits-based nutrition program within their gym. You guys are making it very, very simple.
I think the clients, like we’re really encouraging them to like finish Jen’s course and then immediately book a business special, or a specialist call with me that way. Like, I can give them, show them where everything is in the highway and just get them ready to go, like go over their rates, all that type of stuff. And then like, I also have, like, if you have those gyms, they’re like, I need an app. Like I need an app to coach. You can do it on paper. Like I have programs like built in an app that I can like share with your clients that are just like plug and play programs. You can just take off and run with.
Awesome. That’s so great. I’ve seen some people posting their certification like that they’ve passed Jen’s course, and it seems like they’re getting pretty fired up about it. And then I listen to parts of the office hours or jump in once in a while on Fridays. And you guys do such a good job at the end of the month of doing the role-play, which I think is a huge piece to help people help the coaches feel really comfortable doing those consults, which might be fairly new to them. They haven’t had a lot of experience doing it, but those are, those are amazing. All right. Do you guys have any, any last words to share? I wanted to kind of keep us here till about 11.
Thank you so much for having, I just want to really commend Chris Cooper and Josh Martin for all their hard work through the pandemic to put this together for you guys. This was a lot of behind the scenes work, so that it’s really simple plug and play to include the social media, you know, the whole course that you come out in a month and you’re ready to go, all the resources. And they did work really hard with both the lawyer and the insurance team. So we and precision nutrition are the only two nutrition courses in the world, to my knowledge, that makes you a certified nutrition coach, that you’re insurable. Like if you have affiliate guard, they worked really closely with the affiliate guard team. We checked that what we were coaching could be taught anywhere in the world. So regardless on if you’re in a red state or not, if you don’t have the RD title, all those background checks were done so that you could implement this safely, legally, be insurable certified, like ready to go. And I know Chris work really, really hard with some background team members to make that happen.
That’s awesome. Thanks for pointing that out. That’s huge.
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