Long-Term Value: What If Every Client Spent $10,000 in Your Gym?

Emily Cabral and title text

Mike (00:02):

Would you change your behavior as a gym owner if you knew that every phone call or email might be worth $11,000? I bet you would. In this episode of Two-Brain Radio, we’re digging into the long-term value of customers. The secrets to five-figure clients come right after this.

Chris (00:18):

Hi, this is Chris Cooper, and I founded Two-Brain Business to make gyms profitable. Over the last years, as we’ve compiled more and more data, more and more tools, gotten better and better at mentorship, we’ve really made a lot of gyms, hundreds around the world, thousands over the years, profitable, doing better. What hasn’t kept pace is the quality of coaching in a lot of gyms worldwide. There are great programs out there that will introduce you to a method like bootcamp, kettlebells, Olympic lifting, powerlifting, CrossFit, running, whatever that is. And so we can make coaches who know the subject matter, but that doesn’t make them a great coach. To be a great coach, you have to be able to change somebody’s habits. You have to be able to change their behavior and to do that requires deep understanding of their motivations to do that means amazing adherence by the client. And it means amazing retention because as gym owners, we know it’s harder and harder and more expensive than ever to get a new client. Retention is more important than ever. Referrals are more important than ever. Peer to peer marketing, word of mouth is more important than it’s ever been. How do you get those things? Through client results. So I founded Two-Brain Coaching with Josh Martin to get coaches the skills they actually need to make a career in fitness instead of just familiarity with a methodology. Twobraincoaching.com has courses to help you start a career with personal training, to scale up with group training, both in person and online, and to diversify with nutrition, coaching, and mindset coaching. We have the best programs in the industry that will prepare you and your coaches to deliver any method that you love now or you might love 10 years from now. Twobraincoaching is really a project of love for me. And if you visit twobraincoaching.com, you’ll get a ton of free resources, just like we produce every day on twobrainbusiness.com.

Mike (02:16):

Welcome to another edition of Two-Brain Radio. I’m your host, Mike Warkentin . Do you know how much each client will be worth on average over the long term? Emily Cabral of Chalkline CrossFit does. She’s here to talk to us about why long-term value is important and how she’s become one of Two-Brain’s LTV leaders. The owners of these top gyms know that every time they sign up a client, he or she is worth 8,000 to $11,000 on average. Welcome Emily, are you ready to help some gym owners increase LTV?

Emily (02:44):

I’m ready.

Mike (02:44):

Excellent. I’m going to ask you this right away. A lot of gym owners don’t even know what LTV is. How did you start to calculate it and why did you do that?

Emily (02:55):

Well, I am one of them, and I started calculating it because I was told to. That’s pretty much the easy answer. I can honestly say up until probably the last few months, I think once, you know, once the COVID thing really kind of started hitting all of us really hard, I started realizing that it was more of a priority and paying more attention, but for the most part, it’s literally something that it was in my calculations that I did because I had to as part of my metrics, but I never really paid much attention to it up until recently.

Mike (03:35):

So it was instructions from your mentor. Now, do you have any tips for calculating it? Do you use like a certain software platform or are you a spreadsheet kind of person or how do you do it?

Emily (03:44):

I literally just use the spreadsheet that’s provided to us from Two-Brain. And what I do with the membership system that I use is I just export my membership data and kind of, you know, adjust it as needed and then import it into the spreadsheet that they provide and it calculates it automatically.

Mike (04:06):

OK, excellent. So you’re one of Two-Brain’s top gyms in the LTV category. You scored $9,100 in October. How did you achieve such a great number? That’s the answer everyone wants.

Emily (04:19):

I wish I had an amazing answer for you. One of the questions that was asked of me once it was clear that I was going to be on the leaderboard for this was, did I think it had more to do with the ARM calculation or the LEG calculation or a combination of both? And my answer to that is for me personally, I think it absolutely has to do more with the LEG, the length of engagement calculation, because my ARM calculations, which is average revenue per member is not very high, especially with everything that’s happened this last year. However, I do retain members, apparently, very well. I would say the majority of my members have been with me with for two to three years. Some have been with me since the very beginning, so close to seven years, and I really think that’s the secret to me. Is keeping people around longer.

Mike (05:22):

Yeah. So you mentioned two key elements there. So you could have an LTV of $12,000 if you had a high value client of a thousand dollars a month and kept that client for 12 months. You could also do it the other way with other things. If you had a hundred dollar member and kept them for a very long time, you could also get to that 12,000 member number. And then there’s that combination where you have a very high ARM and you’ve got a lengthy length of engagement. So yours predominantly comes from retention and length of engagement. You think. Do you have any secrets? Do you do anything special in terms of retention that generates that length of engagement? Like how do you manage to keep people for such a long time at your gym?

Emily (06:00):

I’ve been thinking about that over the last couple of days, knowing that this interview was coming up. And one thing that I’ve heard floating around a lot, and you know, it’s definitely been within Two-Brain, but also just in other kinds of gym owner communities is the notion that quote unquote, your members aren’t your friends. And that has always bothered me a little bit for two reasons. One, because I kind of think they are my friends and two it’s made me feel like they shouldn’t be, you know, like, I need to adjust that, I need to fix that. And I was having a conversation with a friend and a fellow gym owner recently, and she feels the same way and we were just chatting about it. And what I came to is that for me, it isn’t that my members aren’t my friends it’s that they have to be members first and friends second, meaning you always have to have some degree of a professional boundary and relationship when it comes to things at the gym, but that doesn’t mean you can’t have meaningful personal relationships with your members at the same time, but again, there’s always kind of that delineation between, OK, this is where we’re talking about business and dealing with business.

Emily (07:18):

  1. Now we’re just shooting about whatever is happening in life. And I think I must just do that pretty well, because I’ve never had any major blow-ups or issues dealing with gym stuff. Even members that have left, I’ve maintained fairly close relationships. And it’s just, I don’t know. I think that’s kind of the secret sauce for me. So to pin that answer down a little bit more, and this is also a two-sided, you know, double-edged sword is I think the key is actually me and I don’t mean that to sound kind of, you know, coming from an egotistical standpoint, but one of the things that I’m also struggling with is how to maintain that retention and that length of engagement and be able to pull myself out of the business a little bit more. So that’s going to be interesting to see how I manage that in the coming years.

Mike (08:15):

Well, I have a question to ask you about that, but I’ll just jump in quickly and explain, when we’re talking about friends and clients and so forth, Chris Cooper’s written about this in his blog and his experience with this was he started a gym with his powerlifting buddies. And, you know, they took advantage of them because they were his friends, right. They, I don’t have to pay my membership. I don’t have to do this. We’ll play the music, not clean up and that kind of stuff. And a lot of us, when we started gyms, myself included, we kind of did the same thing, you know, and it was like put cash in the envelope on the desk whenever you feel like it. And we really kind of treated it like a friendly relationship, but no business whatsoever. And so the idea of having friends first, you know, can put you in some tough situations, especially as someone maybe treats you like less than a friend when they’re a client.

Mike (08:56):

So I really love what you said there, where you can forge these incredible personal relationships with people. And that’s really the basis of what we do in coaching. But they’re member first, right? They have to pay the bills, they have to follow your rules. They have to do the things that you require of them. And the other side of that contract is you’re going to give them incredible service. So I love the way you put that. It’s really a really important point for people, especially as we change from just gym owners to coaching businesses, which COVID has kind of forced us to do. The question I want to ask you is, do you do most of the stuff in your business, you talked a little bit about the icon that you are and how you have these relationships. Are you the only person coaching, or tell me a little bit about your staff. So people get a sense of what you do in the business.

Emily (09:36):

Yeah, absolutely. I am not the only coach, but I am the only functional member of the business right now from the backend. I have a small stable of part-time coaches, but I’m still coaching the majority of the classes. You know, I think at this point it might be like a 48 to 52 split. And on the backend I do everything. I’m starting to fix that a little bit. I’ve now got a nutrition coach who’s going to be taking on some nutrition clients for me. And I’ve started, since the pandemic I’ve started building up the personal training side of things, which I’m not doing at all. And only having my coaches do that. But otherwise the business is a hundred percent me, which means from a customer service standpoint, I’m the go-to for everything. And so, you know, all of those members, whether they’re new and we’re just establishing our relationship or they’re, you know, seven year members and we have the relationship, if it’s billing, if it’s membership holds, if it’s, you know, anything having to do with the business, I’m the go-to.

Emily (10:49):

And so that’s, you know, where you mentioned that kind of icon issue. It is, you know, especially now that I’m looking at this data and have been recognized for this data of having, you know, a high lifetime value, it’s like, Oh, shoot. Now I have to figure out how to keep that if I step back. And so that’s my next challenge.

Mike (11:11):

So I guess your challenge will be to identify either is your greatest value in this role and then hiring people around you to fill other roles that allow you to create these relationships, or do you replace yourself in this role and find someone who’s got who you can train to be hopefully as good as you are, if that’s possible and then move yourself into other roles. Do you have a sense of which way you’d go on that?

Emily (11:36):

Kind of. You know, again, this is really the first time that I’m sort of looking at this. I’m one of those people, I know there’s a lot of people out there that, you know, are perfectly happy to have a completely distanced relationship with running their gym. And I don’t know that that will ever be me. And just I’ll clarify, I actually have a five-year plan, which involves moving away from California and buying land in Washington. And so my husband and I are planning for that. The decision will be, you know, do I build the gym to a degree where I could sell it if I want to, or do I build the gym to a degree where I could step away from the daily operations, but still retain ownership. And I’m leaning towards that because it’s hard for me to imagine not being involved in some degree, you know, even if it’s just, you know, kind of being the cheerleader or, you know, a face of the gym or something like that.

Emily (12:34):

So I do think, and I think Coop and I may have talked about this recently in a quick chat where, Oh no, it was actually, I think it was one of his emails where I read it where, you know, when it comes to like the initial contact and like sort of the sales aspect and being that first point of contact for people, I can definitely see myself kind of maintaining that role. And I think where I go from there is as soon as they’ve had contact with me, I then put them in someone else’s hands for, you know, specific things. So they know that I’m the, you know, if there’s a huge issue or there’s a big problem, they know they can come to me. But if they have membership questions, they go to my GM, or if they have coaching questions, they go to the head coach or, you know, something to that degree. I think that’s probably how I’ll end up trying to build it.

Mike (13:23):

That makes a lot of sense. And then, so in that five-year plan, you’ve got at least right now, you have your attention problem. You’re doing a great job. Like there is no retention problem. You have a long length of engagement. You said your ARM is potentially lower than you’d like, or you’d like to drive it up. Do you have any ideas for how you want to do that or timelines for how you can do that?

Emily (13:40):

Yeah, absolutely. Building the personal training and nutrition side is the first step. That’s going to be the main focus because I’ve greatly lacked in putting any effort into that up until now.

Mike (13:53):

And do you think that will be personal training nutrition services sold in addition to your current clients, or will it be new personal training and new nutrition clients from outside the business?

Emily (14:02):


Mike (14:02):

So I understand from the interview you did before this, that you’ve acquired a lot of members through ads, is that correct?

Emily (14:11):

Not a lot. I wouldn’t say a lot. The market that I’m in in Southern California is incredibly, incredibly difficult for paid advertising. And I have done my share of it over the years, including, you know, like the, I won’t mention any names, but you know, big businesses that push six week challenges and stuff like that. I’ve done those and had varying degrees of success. But I really have found that, I’d say the majority of people come either through, I guess it’s about a toss. I would say it’s an even like third split between paid advertising referrals and just organic traffic. And I will say I’ve done a very poor job up until this year of any kind of organic marketing. I’m just now starting to try to get myself to be more consistent with social posts and blogs and stuff like that. So, I’ve really been lucky in the sense that, you know, we’re in an area where people seem to seek us out.

Mike (15:19):

I’ll ask you a question related to that. So do you think—have you noticed any difference in length of engagement with clients that come from those different avenues, whether it’s ad advertising clients or affinity marketing slash organic clients, does either camp stay longer with your business, do you think?

Emily (15:38):

No. I think really, if I had to, and this could just be what I’ve paid attention to. Because like I said, prior to, you know, the last year or two, I haven’t been super consistent with tracking things or paying super close attention, typical gym owners’ syndrome. I think the bigger factor in people that stick around longer is making sure that they’re the right fit. And I know that that’s a big push, you know, especially through Two-Brain is making sure that, you know, you’re bringing in seed clients and that you’re speaking to your avatar. The times that I have come from a place of, you know, more like desperation, like, Oh, I need members like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just sign these people up. And they definitely haven’t been the right fit. Obviously they just don’t stick around as long. And so when you really listen to not only your gut, but pay attention to, you know, the seed clients that you serve, when you get more of them, they definitely stay longer.

Mike (16:46):

So that’s again, that’s finding the right clients. So if we take a step back, long-term value tied to length of engagement, but that length of engagement is tied to finding the right clients in the first place. Because if you find tourists, I call them fitness tourists, who are just trying the next thing and you don’t build a relationship with them. They’re in, they’re out. They kind of do the on-ramp, and they’re gone and they never have any connection to you. That’s going to drive down your long-term value because that client might’ve been worth the $400 on-ramp fee or whatever. So I really liked that. That’s really interesting where you’re trying to find the right clients. And obviously if you’re doing that and driving up your LTV, your advertising is attracting the right clients and your organic marketing is as well. So that’s a really fascinating thing. And that’s probably, again, we talked about this in a previous show. It’s hard for gym owners, and it was very hard for me to not want to get everybody, but you need to get the right people in the door and the right people will drive that LTV number upwards, the wrong people will pull it down. So that’s a fascinating observation that you made. Let me ask you this. How has your LTV number changed since you first calculated? And do you expect it to go up down, stay the same?

Chris (17:53):

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Emily (18:26):

Well, again, I haven’t really paid a ton of attention to it. I’ve been way more focused, I will be completely honest and say that ending up on the leaderboard for this has made me go, Oh, well, that’s probably something I should pay attention to. It hasn’t been my focus and I am definitely in a position, you know, my gym is struggling. I mean, we might be breaking even right now with everything that has happened with COVID and were struggling before that too. Um, you know, we haven’t been in a really good place financially. I’ve been very, very, very focused on trying to drive up revenue per member. And I’ve just been very narrow-sighted in that. But the good thing is that I’m still in the gym every day. I’m still the face of the gym. I’m still in contact with almost every member almost every day.

Emily (19:28):

So that obviously helps with retention and LEG and keeping people engaged and keeping them around. So it’s kind of been an accidental strength. Now that I’m focused on it, I definitely see the value in keeping that number, at least where it is or driving it up. And I think if I do things right, it’ll go up.

Mike (19:49):

I think I agree with you there. I mean, I think you’ve got a huge part of the problem solved where length engagement, if your length if engagement is good, that is a huge deal because you’re keeping clients for years. And you’ve said you’ve had some for seven years already, which is an amazing accomplishment. If you drive up the ARM and let’s even say that, you know, you do a rate increase on incoming members of $10 or something like that, and do the same job of keeping them with your retention, your relationships, you’re going to drive your LTV up just as a function of that. So that’s a really cool plan that you’ve got a huge part of it already is solved because you have that length of engagement. So that’s a really important part of it. Now that you know what this number is. And you said you were surprised by it, but now you know that you have a good one. Talk to me a little bit about how it’s changed your mindset in terms of decision making. Like, does it, I’ll give you example, does it, when you’re thinking about, say advertising, do you tend to maybe spend a little bit more because you know that if you acquire a client, you have this long-term number?

Mike (20:48):

How does it make you think about say retention gifts or any of the little things that you can do to keep this number high?

Emily (20:54):

That’s a very poignant question because I’ve actually been hyper-focused on both of those things over the last week or so. Advertising, I wouldn’t say spending more necessarily, because again, I’m in a position right now where, you know, I do have to kind of pinch the pennies a little bit, however, it did give me the confidence to actually start advertising again. I’ve not run any ads this entire year. And, just, you know, kind of leading into the new year, I sort of felt like, OK, maybe now’s the time. And so I actually did some research in my very small little area and found that I think there’s only one other kind of small boutique type gym, even running ads currently. And so I said, OK, well, now’s the time, you know, let me, I’ll get more bang for my buck, knowing that I’m not up against, you know, even like the bigger ones, like 24 hour fitness and stuff like that.

Emily (21:48):

Cause literally nobody’s advertising right now. So, I have thrown some ads up and I’m getting decent response from that. Yeah, so, I mean, it’s not phenomenal, but you know, like they’re trickling in and that’s more than I’ve had in a year, so that’s great. And as far as like, you know, retention gifts and stuff like that, I’ve always been kind of stuck in the way it looks. Like, Oh, well, if I’m going to do these gifts, then I have to do it this way. And literally just this weekend and I’ll actually out myself a little bit. I’m 52 years old and my husband just got me hooked on Tik Tok. And I’m like a little like disgusted in myself that I’m now hooked on Tik Tok is a mature woman, but I’m like a big crafter.

Emily (22:33):

I love to do DIY projects. And in this process of kind of like nerding out on Tik Tok, I actually got inspired to do retention gifts differently. And I’ll give a little bit of a shout out to Mary and Andrew in Massachusetts because she was the first one that kind of put this on my radar. I’m actually going to buy a cutting machine and a heat press so that I can print and create gifts one at a time and save a ton of money that way and have them personalized to members at different. So I’m now starting to plan out like, you know, is it going to be a one-year, thousand classes or five-year club, whatever it is, I can actually create a gift specific to that member and that cycle in their membership and do it myself rather than having to spend a ton of money on, you know, having things in stock, in different sizes so that I have what I need for people. So it’s definitely changed.

Mike (23:36):

That’s Mary and Andrew Boimila at Tradewinds, correct? Yeah. We have a show from them in our archives. They were owner lifestyle award winners this year. So if you guys are hearing more about some of the cool stuff they’re doing, check our show archives, sorry to interrupt you there. Emily, please continue.

Emily (23:51):

No, no. So the basic answer to your question is yes, it’s definitely changed my outlook and allowed me to just shift my perspective and see things a little bit differently and that there’s a different way to execute things. Whereas prior to this, I thought, you know, you could only do it one way and you needed to have this much money to do it, et cetera. So it’s given me a lot more creativity, I guess. Yeah.

Mike (24:19):

And the principle behind it is really interesting because if you know the average LTV of a client, then you can kind of make some decisions with more confidence. And we’ve talked about this in previous marketing shows with Mateo Lopez who tracks metrics relentlessly, and it’s that whole, you know, we’ll call it the Netflix principle where let’s say you have to spend a hundred dollars to acquire a new client, which sounds like to me, a lot of money. But if you know that that client is going to stay and give you a thousand dollars, then that a hundred dollars becomes an investment. And you don’t feel quite so afraid of it. Now that’s not to say that you should always, you know, spend your face off until you acquire a whole bunch of clients. You want the right clients and so forth, but you can definitely adjust your marketing based on the fact that, OK, if I spend even $250 and I still get 10,000 out of this, that’s a pretty good investment.

Mike (25:06):

So it really does affect that, the marketing metrics, and the other thing is like retention. Sometimes you look at as a gym owner like, Oh man, sending these cards or this gift of this coffee cup is going to cut into my profit margin. But again, if that gift furthers a relationship and drives this length of engagement up and creates this solid relationship where this client isn’t going to leave, now that $10 coffee mug equals $10,000 down the line and it starts to really help you understand what you should do to acquire clients and what you should do to keep them. I really find that fascinating, especially for you. You said you’re in a very tough market and you’re in a very tough market in a very tough period where you’ve got the whole COVID thing. So without getting too far off track, I want to ask you with regard to your ads, are the numbers that you’re seeing equivalent or sort of equivalent to what you saw when you were advertising pre lockdown or how do they reflect from that?

Emily (25:58):

No, they’re definitely different. My cost per lead is down significantly. I wish it was down, you know, I see some numbers from gym owners where they’re in, you know, like under $10 per lead. And my jaw drops, I think I’m right now, somewhere around like 16, like 13 to $16 per lead, but that’s down from like, it’s usually over $20 per lead, in my area. And so it’s a significant improvement there and then the numbers, it’s hard to, to kind of compare because I’m doing ads a little bit differently this time. Instead of doing a six week offer, I’m doing a 90 day transformation and I’m using all the stock stuff from Two-Brain. I didn’t really customize anything. But I’m definitely, the targeting is a little bit different. And I’m kind of 50/50 focused on lead quantity and lead quality, which before I’ve kind of primarily focused on just quantity, which is never huge in my area. I rarely get leads flooding in. So it’s usually a trickle.

Mike (27:13):

So what do you, uh, tell me a little bit about that six week offer versus the 90 day journey, is the price for the 90-day journey that you’re selling now, is that above what the 60 day intro was before or the six week intro?

Emily (27:27):

I haven’t done a six week in quite some time. And I think I’m trying to remember what my price point was. I think it was like around the four or $500 mark for the six weeks. The 90 day for me, for me, not necessarily for the people that I’m advertising to, just works better. In my area, the six week thing is just played out and even with a 90 day transformation offer the initial response that I get, you know, in comments and texts and emails is, you know, what’s the catch, what’s the cost. So people have been like beaten to death with the six week offer and the bait and switch, you know, mentality and all of that. So what I’m really using these ads for, especially now in, in a time where people don’t have as much freedom to, you know, just go to the local gym or whatever is I’m really using these the leads that come in as a way to connect with people and let them know that what we’re offering is different and that it’s not a cookie cutter program and the way I’m actually handling the leads when they come in is, you know, the prescriptive model.

Emily (28:39):

I don’t really have like a set it’s this much for this period of time, because it’s all gonna be goal dependent. And I actually, that is one thing that I wanted to mention earlier when we were talking about, you know, getting the right clients. I think it’s important to mention too a lot of times we focus on getting the right people in the gym, like in the appointments, but you also have to be willing as a gym owner to not sign people up at a no sweat intro if they’re not right for the gym. And that’s the hard part, you know, you were speaking earlier and we both mentioned kind of being in that like, Oh, I have to take everybody. If you’re sitting across the table from somebody that just is not the right fit, you have to be willing to say, you know what? I don’t think this is the right place for you. Let me help you find someplace else. And even just doing that sets you apart from your competition, you know, even if it’s just in your principles.

Mike (29:36):

Well, and Chris has talked about that, and setting up referral programs essentially where he’s had clients at his gym that were just not right, but he didn’t want to just kick them out. He’d call other gyms and send these clients there and refer them out. And eventually some gyms started referring clients back to him and it’s as simple as like, I don’t handle competitors, but you do, or I have a seniors program and you don’t and vice versa so that you can set up those referral networks. And that definitely does help. And Chris, you know, Chris has talked about this a lot, so it’s in your best interest essentially to contact, you know, gyms around you and figure out who you can send where and build those relationships with other local businesses and then stand by your principles obviously, and happily send people elsewhere when they’re not a good fit for your gym.

Mike (30:21):

And I really think that it’s interesting, what I was going back to there with the 90-day journey was we discovered in the Two-Brain data that longer introductory programs often result in better retention. And we’ve talked about that in some of our previous shows with Brian Zimmerman about his onboarding program, if you guys want to listen to that great info about onboarding stuff, but I really liked what you said there, where part of it is you just want to get people in to talk to you. And then at that point, you have that conversation, use the Two-Brain prescriptive model, and potentially this person doesn’t need a 90 day journey. They just need one-on-one personal training starting right now, or they need a nutrition program, or they need whatever, or maybe they do need a 90 day program. But the idea is that you talk to them, you find out their goals, then you assign the right program to them and away we go.

Mike (31:08):

So it’s a really interesting system. Yeah. And I love talking to you about how it works in different markets, because, you know, the Los Angeles market is a crazy area and CrossFit has been so big in California forever that it’s saturated, especially with those six week challenges. So that’s really interesting. What I was kind of asking about there was, I was curious if your 90 day journey’s price was going to be something that was going to drive up your LTV, but it’s interesting, you’re saying that mainly you just want to have those prescriptive conversations. So I really liked that idea. I won’t keep you too long. I’m gonna ask you one more question here. If you’ve got a gym owner who looks at these numbers and says, wow, these are incredible. And just says to you, Emily, what would I do to start driving up my LTV? What would you tell that gym owner?

Emily (31:52):

Retention. I mean, I think retention is going to be different for every single gym, because so much of it depends on your clientele and your customers. You know, my gym skews is a little bit older. I would say probably 35 and up, so, you know, parties nights out of bars, you know, competitions and stuff like that. That’s not what’s going to retain my members, but it might be for somebody else. So really, I guess actually, as I’m talking, I’m saying, so yes, you want to focus on retention, but you need to get to know what that means for your member base. Like you really, and I think that takes you back to focusing on your seed clients, you know, who are, and I take a little bit of a different view on seed clients too, because a lot of the idea of a seed clietn is, you know, who sticks around the longest, who loves your services, who, you know, buys everything you sell, et cetera.

Emily (32:58):

But whether I should or shouldn’t, it’s also like, who are my favorites? You know, who are the people that I would want more of in my gym, personality wise, attitude wise, you know, just being good people. Like I want more of them, even if they may not be my highest value clients, you know, maybe they have my cheapest membership option, but as a person, they build up our community and bring a lot to the table. So I think it’s really getting to know, you know, who your ideal clients are and what they want more of, you know, ask them, ask the people that have been with you the longest what’s kept them there. And then just do more of that for everybody.

Mike (33:41):

That’s honestly, it’s such a simple principle that you outlined, but so few people do it. And if you ask your best clients what they might want, and 10 of them say, I need a running program to get me ready for the marathon. You’ve got yourself a specialty program, which drives up your ARM and you’ve got retention because these people are going to stay with you to finish the marathon and do their stuff. And you’re giving them what they need. All of a sudden LTV becomes this giant snowball and away you go. So I think you’ve got it. I think you’ve got it figured out.

Emily (34:12):

Hopefully, knock on wood.

Mike (34:14):

Thank you so much for sharing your time. I wish you all the best, you know, as the pandemic continues to come out of this on the other side and get that property in Washington, that sounds like an amazing story. We’ll have you back on the show to talk about that.

Emily (34:26):

Awesome. I’d love that. Thank you, Mike. Have a great day.

Mike (34:32):

That was Emily Cabral on Two-Brain Radio. We track everything at Two-Brain and we just published Chris Cooper’s State of the Industry guide. This 84-page book is packed with data from over 6,000 gym owners. You can use it to make smart decisions, avoid mistakes, generate more revenue, and see where you stack up in the gym world. It’s 100% free and you can get it at twobrainbusiness.com/research. That link is in the show notes. Click it right now. I’m Mike Warkenttin and I’ll see you next time on Two-Brain Radio.


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