Mike Warkentin (00:02):
Firing staff. It’s OK. Hit pause if you need to, if that makes you so queasy that you have to visit the bathroom. When you’re ready, we’re going to dig into this uncomfortable topic on “Run a Profitable Gym.” I’m your host, Mike Warkentin. Please hit subscribe wherever you’re watching or listening. With me today is Andrea Savard. She’s a Two-Brain mentor, and she’s the CEO and co-owner of FirePower Fitness and Wellness in Ontario, Canada. She’s been in the game for just a minute, and she’s dealt with some strange HR situations. She’s going to share some of those trials with you today to make you feel better about your own, and she’s going to give you some advice to help you manage your staff better and avoid the pitfalls that come with being a business owner. Andrea, welcome. How are you today?
Andrea Savard (00:41):
I’m wonderful. Thank you so much for having me, Mike.
Mike Warkentin (00:43):
I am excited. I know I’ve talked to you a little bit before the show, and I know a few of the things that you’re going to present. You’ve got some interesting—let’s say a rich history. So, let’s talk about some of the stuff that you’ve gone through. Everyone out there is going to feel a lot better by hearing some of the stuff that you’ve talked about because when I asked about this in our Facebook group for mentors, you laid out a few things, and a bunch of people’s jaw dropped. So, give us some situations. What have you dealt with?
Andrea Savard (01:06):
Oh my gosh. You know, it’s so funny. We’ve been in the game for 20 years, and there’s definitely no shortage of, “What? Is that really happening?” Oh my gosh, it’s so crazy. Yeah. So, a couple of the situations. Gosh, one of them, we had a coach with us. She was a boxing coach and fabulous coach, like wonderful person. She was going through a transgender change and no problem with that. She was a fantastic coach. She was becoming a man, and we were supportive of the journey. Everything was fantastic. We had all the accommodations needed, and as the process was going, at the same time, the coach actually got herself wrapped up, unfortunately, in a marriage of some of our members. And then drama started, and we were trying to manage our way through this.
Andrea Savard (02:01):
At the same time, on the course of her transition journey, had really started to have some emotional ups and downs and, and challenges. Ultimately got herself into some drugs and into some situations that finally things had come to a head that we needed to let this person go. The challenge being because of the sensitivity of the society situation and diversity, inclusion, equality, which we’re totally on board with this person, had threatened us with a very public campaign that we were dismissive, that we didn’t include—what was the word I’m looking for? That we were not open to her situation and that we were choosing to release her based on her gender choice. Super not the case. We had to hire lawyers. We had to make sure before the firing took place, that we had everything documented properly, which is a natural process, but the cost of that. Our lawyer was, gosh, it was $450 an hour.
Mike Warkentin (03:02):
Oh.
Andrea Savard (03:02):
And we had to prepare ourselves for this.
Mike Warkentin (03:05):
Wow. And if we look at this and boil out to the essential details and take some of the other stuff out, you’ve got some sort of an interaction with another member, which I’ve heard across—I’ve heard that so many times in gyms where it’s like a coach and a member who maybe is married, and there’s something going on there that’s difficult. Then you’ve got some drugs going on, and you’ve got maybe some emotional problems. And so unrelated to anything else, you’ve got three difficult things, and gym owners out there, I know if you’re listening, you’ve dealt with all three of those things. And they’re very complicated. They’re very difficult. The first thing that Andrea said—I’m just going to point it out—in some situations, you are going to need a lawyer. I’ll give a plug to gymlawyers.com. Matthew Becker is a great resource. He helps people out all the time. But if you don’t use Matthew, there are other ones out there as well who can help you make sure you get your ducks in a row when you’re dealing with situations, because there are situations where you absolutely have to get rid of someone, but you’ve got to make sure you’re on side of all the laws. And Andrea, was the money that you paid the lawyer worth it in the end?
Andrea Savard (04:01):
Oh my gosh, it 100% was. The documentation of it, the situation. Because when we did finally have to let the staff member go, she did launch a public campaign against us. We were really fortunate, and I’ll talk a little bit further as we get into some of the details later, that our reputation as a business was able to shine through, and we had documented proof should any sort of legal repercussion happen from her end. We were covered on that side. So, the legal side was covered, but then we really were worried about our reputation and our brand image in our town. So that was a big piece for us as well.
Mike Warkentin (04:35):
Was that really hard for you emotionally? And the reason I ask this is because you’re supportive of people, and all gym owners out there, you’re supportive of your staff members going through the life challenges and changes that they have, but at some point you have to protect your business and your livelihood. So, when someone’s underperforming and doing damage inside your business, you kind of have to put that soft-hearted thing aside and say, “Here’s the reality.” Like, was that really emotionally hard for you?
Andrea Savard (04:59):
It’s hard for me because I’m a very emotional person. Naturally, I’m very right-brain and very connected to our people and our brand. So yeah, the worry, the fear of having a negative perception of our brand that we work so hard to build was very, very hard. And also, because I love people; I love our staff. Oh my gosh, I give them my heart, soul, and I’d open my home to them. That being able to decide where’s that line, where’s that line for me that we’ve hit the end? That was a challenge on that one.
Mike Warkentin (05:31):
How long did that process go on for, from the time you knew that there was a major, major problem to the firing? Do you recall?
Andrea Savard (05:37):
I would think we were probably about 45, 60 days. It was longer than I had anticipated.
Mike Warkentin (05:43):
OK so that’s two months. Yeah.
Andrea Savard (05:43):
Yeah. But we were able to minimize her coaching hours and try to minimize the damage at the same time. When people do, like you said, there’s no shortage of affairs and people doing dumb stuff on their own. Thankfully that’s not a reflection on us. And we’ve had to learn that the hard way. That is not a reflection on us. It’s consenting adults doing their own thing on their own time. So that wasn’t an effect of us.
Mike Warkentin (06:07):
Yeah. And so, you probably lost a lot of sleep in that period, I’m guessing. And there were a lot of stressful periods. We, my wife and I, have dealt with some stuff too, where—and this was firing a client, but still difficult. And you just sit there and all of a sudden, you realize all you do all day is talk and think about this one thing and none. It’s not really building your business. It’s actually just preventing damage to your business, but it’s not building it or doing the things that you really enjoy. It’s certainly not serving clients. And again, there is overlap because removing a horrible thing does help clients in the end. But you get what I’m saying. What else have you got in the archives? Any other just interesting jaw droppers for us?
Andrea Savard (06:41):
I got a doozy of one actually, yes.
Mike Warkentin (06:43):
OK, let’s do it.
Andrea Savard (06:44):
So we run, on Christmas Eve, we run a massive breakfast for our members. We put it on. Coaches cook for everybody. Everybody comes. It’s usually about 150, 170 people.
Mike Warkentin (06:55):
I’m coming this year.
Andrea Savard (06:56):
Oh, you should. Pancakes, fabulous. Anyways, so we showed up at the gym Christmas Eve, and my assistant, before I got there, my assistant sends me a quick text, “Did you take the cash box home?”
Mike Warkentin (07:06):
Oh.
Andrea Savard (07:07):
“No, no, I didn’t.” She said, “Cash box is gone.” OK. So, cash box is gone. So, we realize that we now have a theft somehow. So, we get to the gym, but by the time I get to the gym, I’ve got 30 minutes before I’ve got 150 people coming for bacon, ham and sausage and a big workout for Christmas Eve. So, we realize, oh, OK, we’ve got to get through this event and then I’ve got to call the police because we need to report this theft that happened overnight. We do the event, goes off without a hitch. Staff are fabulous. While we’re cleaning up, one of my coaches says, “I thought we had more kettlebells than this.”
Mike Warkentin (07:41):
Oh, oh.
Andrea Savard (07:42):
And we’re looking at, I’m like, “Huh, 1, 2, 3. OK.” And he says, “I thought we had more bumper plates than this.” So now we start looking, and all the staff do a very quick inventory. And we’re like, “Uh oh, somebody’s stolen our equipment and our stuff.”
Mike Warkentin (07:59):
No windows or doors are broken at this point probably, right?
Andrea Savard (08:02):
No, no. Police get called. We start like, who, what and where. Thankfully we have an electronic access control system. And as the story started to unfold, the police are now there for property crimes. And we start realizing, shoot, this one particular coach’s key fob had been used multiple times overnight and had been used the night just before the cash box theft. Well, this coach was away. She was out of town. So, I called her up and I said, “Hey, so and so.” Her father was actually in cancer treatment, so that’s where she was in a town about two hours away said, “Your key fob was used overnight. Do you have your keys with you?” She says, “No, I’ve left them at my rental apartment on my TV.” She goes, “Oh my gosh.” She goes, “I have a boyfriend, and gosh, he must have got my keys.”
Andrea Savard (08:54):
“Let me just,” she called her landlord. Nope. Keys were gone. So, she figures he’s taken these keys. So anyway, she’s horrified. She comes home the next day, and we decide that it’s probably this boyfriend that has come in the middle of the night taking the cash box and taking the equipment. Anyway, so she comes back from her thing, and I’m sitting down on the couch with her, and I’m like, “Oh, are you OK? Like, this must be so stressful for you. Listen, you missed our staff party. Here’s your Christmas bonus.” And I gave her a card, “Can I help with anything?” Are you—like, “Do you need anything right now?” She goes, “No, I’m good. But you know, thanks for helping here.” And this was a coach by the way, who we were elevating to become a manager, one of our lead managers.
Andrea Savard (09:34):
She was that good with people, that good on the floor and one of our competitive athletes too. So, a couple days later she sends me a text, “Hey, can we meet at 9 a.m. for coffee at this particular restaurant? I just want to start building a plan of how to earn some more money.” No problem. So, we make the time. She no-shows the meeting. And that’s not like her. She’s usually extremely responsible. So, she no-shows me, and I’m pissed because I had a lot of stuff on that day. I send her a text, I’m like, “Hey man, I’m sitting at this restaurant waiting for you. A, are you OK? And B, kind of a waste of my time here.” So, I head off to the gym, and my husband’s there and a few of our coaches are working out. And I get a text message, and it’s from her and she says, “Help me.”
Andrea Savard (10:16):
And I’m like, “Are you OK?” “No, I need help.” “OK. Do you need us? Are you at home?” “Yes.” And anyways, I then grab a few of our coaches. One of our coaches was a Toronto staff sergeant. So, we get my assistant, I bring the staff sergeant with me. He calls a few of his detectives from Toronto, meets us up at her place in Mississauga, which is about halfway. Their detectives are sitting on the street. And the police officer, myself, coach and my assistant, we go in her apartment, and it was, door was open, the light switches were not working. We go down the stairs, and we find her bound and gagged with duct tape on her bed. And of course, I panic. I’m crapping in my pants. I have no idea what’s happening. We have to go call 911, you know, police, ambulance. Even the media starts showing up because they were following the scanners.
Andrea Savard (11:07):
So they take her away to the hospital. They do all the tox screens, rape kits, all this stuff, and nothing shows up. And now, we have a second police department, and I should say this is probably only two weeks after the property crimes theft. Now I have another town’s police department, and it gets escalated from police to SVU, major crimes. And ultimately, it was found out that she staged a rape on herself and bound and gagged herself with duct tape, called us for help, traumatized us in the meantime. But she was trying to deter the fact that she was the one who had stolen all our cash box, our equipment. So, she was trying to throw the first police group off by setting this random stage for the second incident. And it just—I mean, it’s deeper than that Mike. It goes on and on and on. But this was someone who I was like, “I love you.” I’m hugging her while she’s got duct tape on her, telling her how much I love you. Like, we’re here to help you, and it was all fake.
Mike Warkentin (12:13):
And the police unraveled all this.
Andrea Savard (12:15):
The police unraveled it all.
Mike Warkentin (12:18):
Wow. Did you press charges, or how did this end up going?
Andrea Savard (12:21):
Interestingly, because as they were doing their investigations, they did not press charges. It wasn’t on us. They said based on her mental state. And then finally police department one connects with police department two, and they all kind of have those same connections. Yeah. So, we had theft and lies, and it went so deep. We didn’t realize that she had been going down this rabbit hole of mental decline. We didn’t see it.
Mike Warkentin (12:47):
That’s honestly a movie plot.
Andrea Savard (12:49):
Oh gosh, it gets worse. She was trying to get clients to give her cash for lifetime PT.
Mike Warkentin (12:56):
Like off your books though, like kind of under the table.
Andrea Savard (12:59):
Under the table, off the books. We had no idea about it. Two of our good employees—or our good clients—felt so bad for her that they gave her $1,000 cash because she promised them lifetime PT, and they knew she was in this troubled state. So, then they were coming forward. We’re learning all this new stuff. It was a gong show.
Mike Warkentin (13:16):
So did you have to—this may be a dumb question, but did you have to fire her, or was this—did she just leave, or how did this resolve itself?
Andrea Savard (13:23):
Ironically, she was gone. Of course she was not welcomed back. She did try to contact us. She actually mailed a letter to myself and my husband. It’s a big apology. We had $800 cash stolen. She sent us $800 cash back in the mail. And she was sort of trying to make things right. But man, we were on lockdown. We were all staff, we had multiple meetings, and we can talk about how we deal with this kind of stuff. But everybody was in the know. Everybody was on watch, worried if she was going to come in and try to make any problems, any scenes, try to have any apologies. So, it never happened. She just, she ended up going away. So luckily, it didn’t require a firing, but yeah.
Mike Warkentin (14:06):
And that’s one that’s like—I mean your situation’s extreme, but the idea of—like just if we isolate theft, that’s not uncommon. And I had it, and we weren’t great at retail at our business, and we wrote off some T-shirts, and some stuff went missing and so forth. But there was one period where protein supplements were regularly missing, and regularly and to the point where it was beyond even my own incompetence with retailing. Someone was taking stuff, and we never figured out who it was. But when we put a locked display case with a key, it stopped.
Andrea Savard (14:40):
Imagine that.
Mike Warkentin (14:41):
Right. So, something was going on in my business too. And theft is not as uncommon as you think in your business. A tip that I’ll give you, and this is something I think probably, Andrea, that you’ve you did without thinking perhaps is if you have a shared alarm code, don’t do that. Have alarm codes that are individual for each person, so you know who’s coming into that business. You had key fobs, which is the same thing. But if you do something that’s trackable, then you can start to put things together. And I know that some gyms have security cameras and so forth. Make sure you cover all legal guidelines on where you’re doing surveillance and things like that. Make sure you stay side of everything. But you are definitely going to be able to figure out who was in your business.
Mike Warkentin (15:19):
If it’s just like a metal key, you can’t really tell. And we all know that metal keys end up there’s 50 of them out there. Right? They’re all over the place. No one knows what’s going on. But if you have an alarm code individualized to the person, and I remember doing that. I was putting those codes in place, and someone said, “Why are you doing this?” And I was like, “Huh. That’s an interesting question.” And I know Chris Cooper had one where someone asked him or asked another staff member, like, “Does Chris review the security camera footage regularly?” And the person was like, “Oh yeah.” And the person quit the next day, the person who asked the question quit. And Chris said the joke, I think, was that they weren’t even on or something like that. But the person was like—had done something in the building that she assumed had been recorded and didn’t want to deal with the fallout of it. It was something—I don’t have the details exactly right.
Andrea Savard (16:05):
Yep, it’s so interesting you say that. At the time that this one coach—you know, the cash box and the equipment stealing and all this stuff—she was actually stealing little bits of equipment. We discovered based on the …
Mike Warkentin (16:16):
Just shaving the salami one plate at a time.
Andrea Savard (16:18):
A hundred percent, it had been happening for months. And anyways, we eventually got our equipment back. But another piece that our cameras helped with—this was important—that our cameras helped with with theft was financial fraud. And in our case, back in many years ago, we had a policy that if nobody showed for a class, then the coach didn’t need to conduct a class, and they weren’t paid. We’ve evolved that since. But at the time, that was our policy. All coaches knew it. Everything was done.
Mike Warkentin (16:46):
Oh, I see where this is going. Yeah.
Andrea Savard (16:48):
So this is a fraud case. And what happened was, in our system, in our CRM system, a coach had put two members into a class, confirmed that it happened to trigger a payroll. And my assistant caught it, and she said, “Hey, wait a minute. I was here. There was nobody in that class.” And I look, and I said, “Oh, interesting. Because the two clients who are in the class, I worked out with them this morning, so they weren’t here.” And then we start saying, “OK, well, somebody put some people in the class and did the thing.” We knew who it was. It was the coach. And we approached him and said, “Hey, looks like this took place, and that’s fraud.” And he said, “What are you talking about?” “Oh yeah, it’s falsification of information for financial gain.” My sister’s a police officer and one of my best resources.
Mike Warkentin (17:38):
I’m sure. I’m sure.
Andrea Savard (17:39):
And he said, “Oh, geez, that’s really bad.” And I said, “You know what? It happened on my assistant’s computer, so we’ve got to figure out who did it, or she’s at risk of getting fired.” She wasn’t. I was kind of scaring him. And he said, “Oh, I can’t believe she did that.” And oh yeah, threw her under the bus. “I can’t believe she did that. She’s a good employee. I hope you don’t have to fire her.” So, we let him sit on it, and about three or four days later, I sat him in my office, and I said, “You know what? We’ve done some more investigating.” And I had a little USB key thing, little USB thing. And I said, “I’ve got it on camera who did it. You want to see this?” And then slid it across the desk, and he burst into tears because he knew he was found out.
Andrea Savard (18:25):
Now here’s where things got crazy. We said to him, “Yes, this is fraud. There is no statute of limitations on pressing charges for fraud,” and he was horrified, cried. And we had this conversation, and he’s like, “I just needed the money so badly.” And I’m like, “Why wouldn’t you come to me? You trust us. You know us.” And we had this discussion. Where it got challenging is the business, Mike, is that this gentleman was a key member of our CrossFit competition team. And if we fired him right away, the entire team loses their opportunity. It was our first chance at an international competition that we had qualified for. So, our little team in Ontario, homegrown competition team, our first international competition was coming up in the next three or four months. And then we said, “What do we do?” So, we knew we had to let him go.
Andrea Savard (19:13):
At the same time, he offered, “I want to make this right. I will work for free for the next three weeks.” And we let him. We let him. We had to. We didn’t have to; we chose to. I’ll clarify that. We chose to. I trusted him to deliver the service on the floor. We knew he was feeling just awful about his situation and what he had done. A few months had gone by, the team was able to compete, and our intention was to let him go that Monday afterwards. I knew he knew. So, the week before the competition he said, “I just got to let you know I found another job.” And we’re like, “That sounds pretty good.” So, we didn’t have to execute the firing. We should have, but our emotions were tied to the team that had worked for years to get to that stage. And it just felt so unfair to them because they all would’ve been able to—or all would’ve lost their opportunity.
Mike Warkentin (20:08):
Wow. I mean, and then that’s a wild one where then you’re kind of stuck in the situation where he says, “Well I want to make this right.” But there’s always been this extreme breach of trust where he’s done something so brutal, thrown another staff member under the bus and just lied, lied, lied. And yet, you’re kind of tied to it because you’ve got this other group of people who are—that was a difficult one.
Andrea Savard (20:25):
It was very.
Mike Warkentin (20:26):
Yeah. Like I call it an impossible situation to some degree. Because you’re kind of damned if you do, damned if you don’t. So, I got to ask you this. These are three pretty crazy stories. And I’m sure I know from this post that I put up in our mentors’ group, there are others, and they are wild. There is some wild stuff, and gym owners out there, I know you’ve got some wild ones.
Andrea Savard (20:44):
Oh, the books we could write.
Mike Warkentin (20:45):
Oh, the books you could write. Any of these situations avoidable? Like is this stuff just part of the game? Because one of the things that gym owners will do is like, “Oh, poor me, this is horrible.” Whatever. Is this just part of being an entrepreneur? Managing staff?
Andrea Savard (20:58):
Yeah. There are some ways that we could have handled things different. Of course. There are times where we let things go on too long because we felt for the person, and you’re emotionally connected to them. At the end of the day, Mike, 20 years into this, with all the stupidity we’ve seen—and that’s just three off the top of our head situations of stuff that’s going on—we can’t control the stupidity that people get themselves into. We’ve had to finally understand that other people’s lives impact our ability to run our business. That doesn’t—it’s not exclusive to the gym business. It’s not exclusive to a corporate. It’s not exclusive to an environment at police, fire. It doesn’t matter. People will do what they’re going to do no matter what, no matter what industry they’re in. There’s fraud and theft in every business. There’s affairs, and people stepping outside their marriages and coworkers having affairs or clients and staff having affairs. It happens. How we deal with it, and how, where your line is that you’ll choose to stand up for, that’s what we have to choose. But it is just part of the game and with experience comes, “This will pass.”
Mike Warkentin (22:14):
Yeah. And I think that’s a big one is not sitting there and saying, “Poor me, and this is always happening to me.” It always happens to every single business owner. I know large corporations have—like there is stuff set aside to cover problems like this, right? Like a retail store knows, “This much stuff is going to walk out the door without being paid for.” It just happens no matter what we do. Internal stuff, HR departments, the whole thing. All of it is built to protect the businesses. As a gym owner, it’s really great—these stories are horrible, and if you’re living with one right now, my heart goes out to you because I know the struggle. Andrea feels the exact same way. So, take some consolation there, but try not to take it personally. Obviously in all the three examples that Andrea has put out, you see people who have some personal issues going on, deep personal issues that are affecting the business. But it wasn’t like they decided to attack you. And I know there are some people out there who have done that, but for the most part it’s probably best if you sit there and say, “This is just a thing that happens to business owners. Many of them. I’m just going to deal with it and move forward.” Do you agree with that, Andrea?
Andrea Savard (23:13):
I do. And we’ve finally come to a line that we use at our place with our staff. “You’re only the hot topic until somebody else does something dumb.”
Mike Warkentin (23:23):
Yeah, that’s right. It doesn’t take long usually.
Andrea Savard (23:25):
Yeah, it doesn’t take long. Yeah.
Mike Warkentin (23:28):
The news media and the politicians—they know that line for sure.
Andrea Savard (23:31):
Oh gosh. Right? Yeah. And drama happens, and it’s irrelevant. You know, we’ve had some drama just a few years ago, and I’m like, how are we 18 years into running a business, running a gym, and we’re still dealing with this shit. And it is mind boggling that, yeah, no one’s immune, and—
Mike Warkentin (23:49):
People never change. People are people.
Andrea Savard (23:51):
Even as, I’m a Two-Brain mentor, I hold myself to a high standard, and I hold myself to say, “I feel like I should have my stuff together,” and stuff will still happen. And it’s no reflection of anything we’re doing. How we respond and how you handle that is a reflection of your doing.
Mike Warkentin (24:06):
So I mean that’s a great one. So just remember gym owners, if you’re out there, this stuff is going to happen. If it hasn’t happened to you yet, it’s going to at some point, and I hope it’s the easiest situation you’ll ever have to deal with, but it might not be. So, what else have you learned here, and what can you advise people to kind of get through these experiences with as little dirt on them as possible?
Andrea Savard (24:25):
Mm, great question. We rely heavily on what we call a network of trusted advisors. And I have to be able to talk about it. I’m the kind of person, I have to talk about it with people, but I need to select who I talk about it with. Because I’m not broadcasting it to the world. I’m not gossiping, and there’s a difference in my opinion between “I want to gossip about it” or “I got to get this off my chest, and I need some insight on how to deal with it.” So, we have a network of trusted advisors. I talked about my sister who’s a superintendent police officer. She is such a great resource for me because sometimes they are criminal cases, and sometimes there’s potential for a civil case or human rights issue that might come back on us. So, I always get clarity: Is this criminal, is it civil, or is it a human rights case?
Andrea Savard (25:08):
So she’s such a great resource. Secondly is our legal team. I have lots—they’re on speed dial because if you run a business, you better have a good lawyer. Matt Becker is a fantastic one. We relied on his advice and his counsel for a number of things. So having a great legal team but also having experienced mentors or people who you look to that are in business, similar situations, who may have gone through some of this before, but you trust their privacy because we got to keep this private. You have to learn how to manage the backlash. You have to learn what you can share with staff. What can our staff learn from this, and what do members need to know? And, in cases of staffing that is a person’s private HR information. So, we have to be very strategic on what information is positioned to your membership, why a person is no longer there. And especially when members know. Our communities are tight in the micro gym, so everybody knows everything. But how we communicate it and how my staff will message and how they communicate it, I have to make sure that we’re all connected.
Mike Warkentin (26:18):
Yeah, I really like the idea of a network of trusted advisors. I’ll call that the Team NOTA. You know, the idea of like people who can help you without spreading things. Here’s a thing that I’ve noticed: If you tell one person something, you’ve told a bunch of people something, and it spreads fast, especially in a tight business like a micro gym or a coaching business. If you tell a staff member, they tell another staff member, and how many times have you, listeners, been in a conversation where someone says, “Ah, between you and me, I shouldn’t say this but …” and they tell you some stuff, and you’re like, “Whoa, if you told me this, how many other people?” And all of a sudden, you know that the secrets are in the world. I really like to compartmentalize parts of my business and my life.
Mike Warkentin (26:56):
And a really good way to do that is to talk to, say, a Two-Brain mentor. So, when we’ve had problems, we call our mentor because our mentor doesn’t live in the same city, is not connected to any of the people who are involved, is not emotionally attached to anybody and is obviously sworn to secrecy because you have this very privileged relationship and a high degree of trust. And we talked to Chris Cooper personally actually about this one time, back when Coop was still doing mentorship calls, about a staffing issue. And he gave us some great advice that was not tied to emotion—because I was very emotional; it was tied to data and details. Chris was never going to say, “Get back to that person or start talking to my mentors.” And it’s a great way to compartmentalize your life. You can have those same relationships obviously with lawyers and other professionals.
Mike Warkentin (27:34):
And again, as a small gym owner wearing all the hats, you might be like, “Do I really need a lawyer?” At some point, you are going to need a lawyer, and it can save you a ton of money. So, don’t hesitate to do that. Again, I’m going to plug gymlawyers.com there again because Matthew Becker does do consultations there and can help you out with stuff and tell you, “This is what it will cost, and this is what it will save you.” So do look at some stuff like that, and it’s really important that you do those things. What changes have you made as a result of all the things you’ve gone through? And I get there’s probably a laundry list because you’ve been in business 20 years, but what are some of the big HR kinds of things that you do now to try and prevent as many of these situations as possible even though some aren’t preventable?
Andrea Savard (28:13):
Great question. We really lean into two things: documenting. I document everything.
Mike Warkentin (28:20):
Yes, I do too.
Andrea Savard (28:21):
Everything. And some people are like, “What does the documentation look like?” God, grab a scrap piece of paper, write it and stick it in a file. Have a little book, screenshots, photos. You know, I even have a Google doc, I’ll take notes, date times, details: who, what, when, where, and why. I throw everything in there just so you can prove that this is—get it out of your head, get it onto paper: what you did, what was the response, who was involved? And document everything. As soon as you feel things might be going off the rails, good, bad or indifferent, get it down.
Mike Warkentin (28:54):
And I’m going to jump in. That’s so important because if you fire someone, they can say, “I didn’t do anything,” or “You can’t prove anything.” But if you have this litany of documented stuff, and especially if that’s tied to regular reviews, and you’re saying, “Hey, you messed up here. We want to fix this. Here are the steps.” “Oh, you messed up again,” that’s documented. It’s much, much easier. Keep going after it.
Andrea Savard (29:12):
Yeah, exactly. And then if the situation comes where you have to fire someone, they say, “Give me an example, I’m like, “Oh.”
Mike Warkentin (29:20):
Let me thumb this through the archives.
Andrea Savard (29:22):
This date, this time. Yeah, you’ve got it there. I mean ideally, hopefully, you have staff who you don’t have to document. And I’ll tell you, 99.9% of my staff, I don’t have to document anything. But in the cases of a few of these, you’re darn right. It was, my ass was covered on a few of those. Here’s another one that we put in place for access control. We didn’t think of this in the beginning. Everybody had a key fob, and they had access whenever they wanted. I wanted my staff, “Come in whenever you want,” and then we kind of went, “No one’s allowed in here after 10:30 at night, and you won’t get in, you cannot access the gym before 4:45 a.m.”
Mike Warkentin (29:53):
Nothing really good happens in those hours in a gym anyway. Right?
Andrea Savard (29:58):
Right? Well in our case, they were snagging equipment in the middle of the night and stuff. So those were just some operational things. Cameras were everywhere. I have special logins for each of my computers and each of my technology. I know exactly what login is for what system. So, in the case of the fraud, I knew exactly what iPad he was using and the date, the time, and the camera confirmed it.
Mike Warkentin (30:18):
I’ll jump in and just say shared passwords, guys, if you’re listening, shared passwords, don’t. Do not share a password. Give everyone their own password for the same reason that I said get your own alarm code login. Sorry to interrupt, Andrea.
Andrea Savard (30:30):
You got it. That’s OK. Another thing that we did, we really lean into this hardcore is a code of conduct.
Mike Warkentin (30:36):
I’ve seen this. I like this. I’m going to link to it. I’ve seen this in our blog, and we’re going to link to this so, listeners, you can check out more.
Andrea Savard (30:42):
Yeah. And this is huge for us because every single member that joined the gym, they are required to accept the code of conduct. Every staff, in their service agreement, they are required to read and accept the code of conduct. And we lean into this hard, hard, hard. And what that does is it simplifies the firing process because as an emotional person, I love people. I never want to hurt people or upset them, so I never want to force and say, “You did this. You are fired.” I can simply now say, “You no longer meet the code of conduct we’ve set for our operations. It’s time for you to go.” And that has had to happen unfortunately for both the member side and staff side. But that is an easy way that we can lean into. In my code of conduct, I have a line in there called moral turpitude, but we’ve also added a piece that says, “If you negatively affect the mental health of the members in the community around you, that’s grounds for being removed from the community.”
Andrea Savard (31:40):
And of course any of these situations that we described earlier negatively affect the mental health of the community. So that is a big, big, big piece. There have been many questions over the years. Can you stop people from having an affair? Can you tell staff not to have a relationship with a member? We can’t. I can’t legally tell you to. And we, in our case, and many others have as well, have had so many relationships grow, flourish, come into amazing families, have kids, all the things because they started a relationship at the gym, which I’m proud of. But when it starts to negatively affect the mental health of the people around, then we get a problem. And that’s why I can lean into the code of conduct with no pointing fingers. You slept with so-and-so, you did this, you did that. Sorry, you no longer meet the code of conduct that we have set for our business.
Mike Warkentin (32:29):
Code of conduct is a really, really good one. And what that does is it sets the tone and puts everyone on the same page coming in. It’s not going to solve your problems, right? Like people are still going to do dumb stuff. That is absolutely going to happen. But you can then go back and say, “You signed this, and this is in violation of this term right here. I’ve got to let you go.” And it’s a little easier than saying, “According to some vague standards that I’ve never communicated in my head, you kind of crossed a gray line that we’re not sure about, and you got to go,” and then it’s a fight. Whereas if you can hold up the sign, at least it’s like, it’s a pretty good asset at that point. So, I’m sure you’ve had to do this with clients. You’ve used that with clients, no doubt?
Andrea Savard (33:04):
I have. Yes. It’s unfortunate. It is. But we remove somebody from their contractual obligations effective immediately. And yeah, again, it was an easy conversation. And anytime a member comes to us and says, “Hey, why did that member get canned?” “Oh, they didn’t meet the code of conduct.” I don’t have to get into the details. They no longer met the code of conduct that we hold our community standards to.
Mike Warkentin (33:28):
Yeah, and I love that too because the details are messy, and when you start getting into the details it gets really bad because then it’s a gossip session. Gossip is different than protecting your business. Protecting your business is like, “We hacked this off. We moved on for the good of the business.” Gossiping is then like trying to win, trying to—let’s throw some slime on someone on the way out or whatever. It’s not good, and it doesn’t make you look good. And then of course if you start doing it, they start doing it, then you see these horrid Facebook threads with just—I’ve seen them—gym owners fighting with departed staff members and negative Google reviews and all these attacks, litigation and slander and libel and the whole thing. It’s awful. You know? So, code of conduct is a really good one. Keeping your trap shut is another really good one. Limiting as much information as you can. Hold yourself to a high professional standard. That code of conduct applies to you, listeners, as much as it does to your staff members and your clients. Is it good policy as a business owner to share private details about people as you fire them? It’s not. Don’t do that.
Andrea Savard (34:24):
It’s not. And we’ve worked extremely hard—and I still do, and I always will—to build trust with our team and trust with our members. We set the standards of how we hold ourselves to. All I have control over is myself and my husband and how we conduct our character, our values, and how we treat people. And there have been times where we have to lean into the code of conduct, and someone’s got to be let go. Typically, it’s a member who everybody else gets upset about. And at that point I can say, “I need you to trust me. This was the right thing for us. I don’t have to answer anymore.” I didn’t have to give the details because we’ve worked very hard at building that reputation, and that does not come overnight. Do you remember in COVID when people were starting to lose memberships, and everybody was so hopeful that their members would keep paying and support them? And I said, “Nothing you are doing at this point will save a membership. It’s everything you’ve done in the five years leading up to March 17th, when the world shut down here, that will save your business.”
Mike Warkentin (35:26):
Something I learned, it was an old Ben Bergman article, I believe, back in the CrossFit journal days: Ben was talking about if you speak behind someone’s back to a third person, what does that say to the third person? And what it says is, “I will speak behind your back when you are not present.” And so, you really got to think about that when you say things to other people about those other people, you are telling them that you will gossip about them when they’re not present. The best thing you can do is keep your mouth shut, or even go so far as to defend people when they’re not around and say, “Hey, we don’t do that here.” That’s a high standard. Another thing that Chris Cooper taught me: Your staff are not your friends. And that’s an interesting one because as you grow up, as a brand-new gym owner, a founder, you might build up this thing where, “Oh, you’re a great athlete and friend and buddy becomes your coach and blah blah blah.”
Mike Warkentin (36:13):
And all of a sudden, you’ve got these awful situations where you need to change things for the good of the business, but you’re now trying to deal with your best buddy. That’s really, really hard. So, as you professionalize your business, standards, practices, SOPs, codes of conduct procedures, everything that goes along with being professional in your business, and that means that your staff are not your friends anymore. My wife and I had to deal with this where we had our staff were very much our friends. We had them over for family gatherings and dinners and holiday stuff. And those were wonderful, but it made it very difficult to make changes over the course of the whole thing. So, after a while we started to pull back from that a little bit, and I still feel sort of regretful about that because I really liked the early days in those relationships. But the fact of the matter is our business has evolved, and we no longer wanted to be friends because that made the business so difficult. Did you have something like that happen over your 20-year career?
Andrea Savard (37:03):
I think we do. I mean, I do, and I still feel so connected to our staff. At the same time, of course there’s different levels of friendships within them, where we’ve had—most of our staff have been with us for 12 to 15 years at least. So, they are friends, they’re staff, but then I have to very clearly say, “OK, who am I calling when my car breaks down at three o’clock in the morning. and I’m on the side of the road?” That’s a friend. I don’t call every one of my staff members, even though, gosh, if I needed to, they would be there, as I would for them. But you have a few of those wake-up calls where you’re like, “Ah, thought we were friends, but.”
Mike Warkentin (37:40):
Yeah, you can’t let friendship get in the way of running your business. And that’s not because you’re a cold-hearted, money bags businessperson. It’s because your business provides your income for your family, and it serves your clients. So, you have a duty to do that. The thing that I would do, the simple solution for me would be, regular staff evaluations on a schedule. Make sure that it’s understood that you are going to come in every three to six months or whatever on a schedule, we’re going to do staff evaluations. At those staff valuations, no matter who you are, I’m going to give you something to work on and improve. It doesn’t matter if you’re A+, I’m going to make you even better. We’re going to go a little bit further, so that no one says, “Oh, you’re picking on me,” or whatever.
Mike Warkentin (38:18):
You’re just giving them something to improve every single time because everyone can have an area of focus to improve on. So that’s a really great way to keep your staff in line, keep the doors of communication open, and Two-Brain has tons and tons of resources for staff development that we help clients do exactly this with career roadmaps and evaluations. Andrea, as we close this out, I’m going to ask you for this one because you are a mentor, you do deal with gym owners all the time: Let’s say that someone’s listening, what is a step, an easy first step that they can do right now wherever they’re at in their entrepreneurial journey to start getting a little bit better at making at staffing and HR issues? What can they do today to just move a little bit in the right direction and maybe prevent some of these problems down the road?
Andrea Savard (38:59):
Hmm, great question. One of the things I find often is when people start a gym, they’re very uncomfortable to professionalize their business from the beginning. Meaning, we have staff agreements. Gosh, we were open about eight years before we presented staff with an agreement. And they said, “Why are we doing this now?” Just being confident to let your staff know this is a new way we’re doing. Maybe you lean into your mentor. I often tell my clients, “Blame me. I’m helping you professionalize the back end of your business, and this is helpful for them.” So, when you put these structures in place, you don’t have to let staff think that they’ve done something wrong and that’s why you’re doing staff agreements and evaluations and such. This is a good way. This is how we professionalize our business. I want to make you guys the best you can. And that is a simple way to be comfortable with professionalizing the backend. Even if it is a small business, you’ve only got one or two staff, you’re setting the stage now for growth.
Mike Warkentin (39:56):
And I’m going to make that—I love that advice. That’s such a great piece of advice to start professionalizing things with staffing agreements. I’ll give you the simplest one example of all: If you have a member or a staff person who trades something for cleaning, document the relationship and say, “I am asking you to do this on this schedule in exchange for this at this value.” Lay it out. How many times—and I’ve done this 17 times myself—have you had a person who’s trading a membership for cleaning just go away for the weekend and not do the cleaning, but still get the membership? It happens all the time. That’s the simplest example I can give you. You can prevent a ton of this stuff if you just lay out the details. Talk to a lawyer if you need to, but get all the details of standards of employment in place. If you start doing that, even in one small situation like your cleaner right now, you’re going to be in the right step. So, Andrea, thank you for giving people actionable stuff they can do today. And thanks for sharing some of those details, which I’m sure probably hurt your heart a little bit just now.
Andrea Savard (40:52):
You know, what? They’re water under the bridge these days because I got bigger and better things coming down the pipe. So, we’re happy.
Mike Warkentin (40:59):
And that’s the other lesson to take out of this: Stuff happens. Good entrepreneurs get help from a mentor. Move onwards and upwards all the time. Thanks, Andrea.
Andrea Savard (41:07):
You are welcome. Thank you.
Mike Warkentin (41:09):
And thank you listeners for tuning in. This is “Run a Profitable Gym.” I’m Mike Warkentin, and please hit “subscribe” wherever you’re watching or listening, so you don’t miss a single episode. And now here’s Two-Brain founder Chris Cooper with a final message.
Chris Cooper (41:19):
Hey, it’s Two-Brain founder Chris Cooper with a quick note, we created the Gym Owners United Facebook group to help you run a profitable gym. Thousands of gym owners, just like you, have already joined. In the group, we share sound advice about the business of fitness every day. I answer questions, I run free webinars, and I give away all kinds of great resources to help you grow your gym. I’d love to have you in that group. It’s Gym Owners United on Facebook, or go to gymownersunited.com to join. Do it today.
