Mike Warkentin (00:02):
Do you have a client journey? If no, you need one. If yes, is it optimized for retention? Well, it should be. Welcome to “Run a Profitable Gym.” I’m your host, Mike Warkentin. I’m here with Peter Brasovan. He’s a full-time mentor, and he’s a mentor trainer with Two-Brain Business. Today we’re talking about the client journey and its effects on retention. Welcome Peter. How are you today?
Peter Brasovan (00:21):
I’m doing wonderful. Really excited to be here to talk about this amazing topic that everybody needs to be knowledgeable on.
Mike Warkentin (00:27):
Yeah, you are a longtime gym owner who ran a great business. Now you’re a mentor, and you’re training mentors. You are the guy who’s going to help us explain exactly to gym owners how a client journey can help. So, I’m going to set the table by telling you about my shameful client journey. It was this: You drop in, you do Fran, you puke, and then you decide whether you want to stay for about three years or you disappear completely. The end. It’s not good. It wasn’t good; it wasn’t a great retention plan. It had no nothing in there to keep people coming and doing the things that they want to do and accomplish their goals. It was super weak. So, 2024: What is a client journey? Why should a client—why should someone have one? And who are the essential staff people who deal with this?
Peter Brasovan (01:07):
Well, real quick recap of 2016 and previous. If you didn’t do something like you were doing Mike Warkentin, then we weren’t necessarily doing CrossFit the way it was back then, right? And that also is one of the most beautiful parts of mentorship 101 is anyone that joins mentorship now learns from our mistakes. So hopefully no one is still doing that. And if you are, that’s OK. There’s still time to change it.
Mike Warkentin (01:28):
We’ll help you today. Here it is.
Peter Brasovan (01:29):
Yeah, absolutely. So, the 2024 version of a client journey really is a full picture from the day that someone becomes a lead or a prospect. This is before we even know if they’re going to be a member. But when you get that first name, phone number, or email address, this client journey for yourself has started a little bit. And I’ll talk about some key things that are really important on knowing who you’re talking to from that point right there. And then our goal, when someone finds us on social media or somewhere else in the world, get them from social media. Get them to your website to give you their contact information as smoothly and quickly as possible with as few clicks as possible. And once you get their information, now the ball is in our court as owners or CSMs or high-level managers. Because now that real client journey starts inside of our gym. How are we going to contact them for the first time? Is it going to be text, phone, email? That process is really important. Get them in our door as quickly as possible, get to know who they are, and then lay out the first 14 days and then the first 90 days, and we’ll break that apart in some of this episode.
Mike Warkentin (02:33):
It starts before a client is a client. We call it the client journey, but it’s when the client first hears about your business, what is the experience? What do they hear; how do they feel? And then that goes all the way to the end. When they leave for whatever reason—it could be they die, 40 years down the line with a great level of fitness that you provided, or it could be they moved to another city, or it could be some other reason—we’re going to document everything in between and talk about how you can keep clients as long as possible, who’s responsible for that and all that other stuff. So, it’s like from first contact to final exit, what happens for every client? And the more that you can make that a cohesive process that’s the same for every single client, you can raise your standard of excellence, you can delegate that to staff members who hold that standard of excellence, and you’ll keep more clients longer. So, let’s talk about it. What are some of the essential elements that you can put into this client journey to increase length of engagement?
Peter Brasovan (03:24):
Well, I wish I could say there’s some simple elements. I’m going to hit a quick top five. And this comes from a phenomenal book out there, “Never Lose a Customer Again,” but it also ties deeply into mentorship with Two-Brain. So, every client journey needs to know exactly what we just said. How are you assessing when somebody joins? How are you admitting them into your gym? How are you activating them and getting them started? What accomplishments are they getting in the first month, 90 days? And then how do you adopt them for the long term? So those are five big ones, and I’m not going to break those down today. That’s what full-time mentorship is for. But the three key things that fall in there for me, so three main ones are the No Sweat Intro process—this truly is our opportunity to shine.
Peter Brasovan (04:07):
And there’s so many small things that someone listening to this today can do to make their gym stand out from the gym down the street. So, No Sweat Intro process, number one. Know who you are talking to. Newsflash, it’s 2024. If you haven’t paid attention to social media, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, you can know your client before they walk in a little bit, and that is just huge—we’ll talk about that more in a moment—and then finally, setting your gym, especially in the first 90 days as a gym that can do either “Unreasonable Hospitality” or “Powerful Moments,” and these two are also books. Actually, at the 2023 Summit, I did a whole speech on “Powerful Moments,” and at the 2024 Summit, Chris Plentus rocked the stage with a whole speech on “Unreasonable Hospitality.” So, these are very important topics.
Mike Warkentin (04:53):
So Chris Cooper has talked about this: Every client needs a goal, a plan, and someone to hold them to the plan. That’s you as a coach. But to get the goal and the plan, you have to talk to a client. When I had them do “Fran and vomit,” I didn’t get a goal, and I didn’t get a plan. I wasn’t able to provide accountability. So, we’re talking about the No Sweat Intro—that’s the free consultation—so, we’re going to skip past the part where you get a lead into your gym. We’ve got lots of resources for you to help you do that. Once they’re there, what happens in this essential step of the client journey, and how does it help us keep them for years?
Peter Brasovan (05:22):
This is—again, we can do a whole other podcast on just the No Sweat Intro, but we’ll try to keep it short for today’s purposes. But when somebody walks in their door, if you have a complicated parking situation—you know, not every gym is the same—did you take a video and say, “Hey Mike, this is what the parking’s going to look like before you get here. Make sure you park in these key spots, and send them a personalized video so they feel like they’re the most special person to you? Even AI will do that now, right? There’s recording ways that you can make AI say the person’s name so you can just have a forever green video that gets replicated. So that step for many gyms is really important. So how do they park? How do they arrive? When they walk in—Mike, oh, this one; we did this in like 2017, and it changed everything. A little—you have whiteboards. Everybody has whiteboards in our gym already. Write, “Welcome Mike,” on the whiteboard. Everybody could do that today. When someone walks into the gym for the first time, they know they’re coming, write their name. Better yet, if you have a TV, you’re using one of those, put a welcome on the sign, or you use one of those little pegboards. There’s so many ways to make someone feel unique. I guarantee you the gym down the street is not doing something that simple.
Mike Warkentin (06:26):
Yeah, because it feels terrible to go somewhere where you’re already intimidated. Like fitness is scary to a lot of people. So, you’re like, “I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what this place looks like. I don’t know where to go.” I hate that feeling. I stand there awkwardly. But if you said, “Park here. Do this. Come in,” and like bells go off and my name’s on the board, I already feel like I like this place.
Peter Brasovan (06:45):
One hundred percent. And then simple things. Do you have a bottle of water? Is it a hot day? It’s summer in the Northern Hemisphere right now. Like, is it hot? Give them a bottle of water. Is there an air-conditioned place you can sit down and chat so it’s a little more comfortable? Just set the tone so they know that they’re the most important person to you during that No Sweat Intro.
Mike Warkentin (07:00):
And this stuff is—you’re going to document this stuff, and you’re going to do it every time for every client, right? This is not going to be a thing where it’s like, “Well, we sometimes put the name on the board.” It’s like, “You’ve got to do this every time.” If we’re talking unreasonable hospitality and really going the extra distance to set yourself apart and build value, that’s what it takes, is doing the same high level of service every time. Not just for Tim, but not John, right? What else do we have related to the No Sweat Intro process?
Peter Brasovan (07:24):
So once they come in, again, have a comfortable place where they can sit down. Some gyms still do the old tour. I’m 50/50 on the tour. It’s not necessary at the beginning. If you’re a good salesperson and you’re confident in what you’re talking about, you could tell them, “We have an amazing gym with some of the best equipment, but we’re not going to talk about that today. At the end of the conversation, if you want to see more of it, by all means. But this conversation is about you and your goals.”
Mike Warkentin (07:46):
I don’t like the tour. And the reason why I don’t like it is because it cuts into the time that I could be talking to the client. I’m looking at, “Oh, look at my reverse hyper.” No one cares, right? Like, obviously, you care. But if you can talk to the client and get their info and work them into a situation where they’re happy to sign up, why not do that? And they’re not going to sign up because you have Rogue Echo Bikes as opposed to Airdynes or whatever it is. Like talk to them.
Peter Brasovan (08:07):
They don’t know the difference yet. And that’s exactly why the we’re—
Mike Warkentin (08:09):
No, you’ve got to teach them.
Peter Brasovan (08:09):
Yeah, yeah. Oh, I could go on, again, another episode on just why gym tours are a bit strange. So, but I tell them—outline their expectations for the next 15 minutes. This one is also a simple one to input today in your gym. OK? “We’re going to talk for the next 15 to 20 minutes. We’re going to talk about your goals. This is about you and what you need out of a gym. We’re going to talk about what we offer. Make sure you understand where we’re at. Then I’ll tell you about our pricing and what’s the best prescription for you. And then I’ll make sure that you have the right choice. And we’re going to get you signed up to get started as early as tomorrow, as long as our coach is available.” So, I outline all that before I start the conversation. Because otherwise people are like, “Mike, I just want to know the price. I just want to get started. What are we doing?” If we don’t set their expectations, they’re just waiting for their chance to ask the question they want to ask.
Mike Warkentin (08:54):
Yep. And so, you said something really important that has to be highlighted. You said find out your goals because it’s not the goals or your goal as a coach where it’s like, “Oh, I want you to lose weight and get fitter and have a big deadlift.” It’s, “What is the client’s goal?” Chris Cooper and I talked about this in a previous show. It’s essential to find out what the client wants to accomplish, not what you think the client wants to accomplish. I made this mistake for decades or a decade. Find out the client’s goal. Tell me more. What do you have?
Peter Brasovan (09:20):
Oh, just, yeah, we all project. I see this all the time in mentorship right now, especially with newer gym owners; they’re still projecting their feelings. And I talk about it all the time. We have evolved. So many people are evolved that you have to understand your clients are as well. So, know their goals. Do they have family? Why are they trying to join your gym? Do they want to go skiing this winter? Do they have family? Do they want to be the best dad, the best grandfather? Whatever it is, that’s such an important part because then we get into that keyword I also said a minute ago: the prescriptive method. Yeah, really big one. Every client might start very similarly. You might only have one or two prescriptions, and that’s OK, but when I sell you that prescription, you want it to make it feel like it’s the most important prescription for that client.
Peter Brasovan (10:03):
Again, a very simple thing to start with tomorrow on the next client you talk to is even if you only offer the same thing for everybody, make them feel like they’re the most unique person to ever get this offer, this deal. And so, the prescription usually would be four to six one-on-one sessions so they really understand your culture and your vibe. I don’t care if they know the snatch and clean and jerk down the street. Maybe they were taught different ways. Who knows what it was? We want to make sure they understand our gym and our lingo because we want the other 150 members we have in classes not to be slowed down by the new person, all of a sudden confused. So that prescriptive method where they do four to six one-on-one sessions and then get started is really important.
Mike Warkentin (10:40):
Click the link in the show notes for the prescriptive model. It’ll tell you everything you need to know in detail. So, when this show wraps, you can go through that and figure out what to do. But this is very simple. In this part, you’ve got the goal, you offer the prescription—the prescription might be the same for everyone, but you personalize it because you know lots about the client and you’re just going to say, “Based on your goals and your schedule and your budget, the best thing that we can do to accomplish your goals fast is X.” Maybe it’s three times a week personal training, or maybe it’s group classes or whatever it is. Give them the prescription. You are showing them your expertise and telling them the plan, and you’re going to provide accountability to that plan. So that’s goal, plan, accountability. What else do we have on this one?
Peter Brasovan (11:18):
So yeah, that prescription should be very simple. It should be clear. Ideally, you’re going to have some type of sales sheet, and even if you have multiple pages of the sales sheet or sales binder, try your best to just show them the page that’s most important for them and what they need so that this is very clear, and don’t oversell them. You’ll also have chances to upsell them and goal reviews and stuff in the future. Right now, keep it simple, keep it streamlined, get them in the door, get them started. So that’s really—from a No Sweat Intro process, those are the simplest things I could talk about right now.
Mike Warkentin (11:45):
So, if you’re looking at this, this from the outside already sets you apart. You’re not getting the person in for a free workout, you’re not doing a tour—you can, but you’re not doing all those kinds of gym sort of salesy things. You’re getting this person in, talking about goals, having a personal conversation, providing a plan, and telling them, “Here is the best way to accomplish your goals.” This alone will set you apart. It raises the value of your service. You’re going to sell more, and here’s a key one where—I’m not going to jump in front of you, Peter, but—you’re going to book that 90-day goal review session at that time. OK, we’ll get to that in a second. But like this is all packaged together because we talked about the client journey from start to finish. You’re going to actually set up the next steps. And in the podcast I did before this, Chris Cooper talked about this. He says, “At that client journey, at that meeting in 90 days, I’m going to ask you for a referral if you’re happy.” He’s setting the table for more, and so this client journey is all documented. If you start doing this stuff, you will have better results. Take me onto the next thing on your list, Peter. What can we do to improve retention on the client journey?
Peter Brasovan (12:43):
Absolutely. And this one maybe could have been first. I wrote it in this order. Know who you’re talking to. I briefly mentioned this one already, but oh my gosh, Mike. Why are people not doing more of this? I know it can sound creepy; I get it.
Mike Warkentin (12:54):
Like stalking.
Peter Brasovan (12:55):
This is the world we live in. So, if you see, especially a name like mine, Peter Brasovan, coming into your gym, you better throw me into Google or Facebook. You’re going to find me. I think I’m the only one in the United States, so not hard to find me. Please know who you’re talking to. You’re going to know: Did they just move to town? Do they have kids? Do they have family? Sure, it sounds creepy, but that person’s also going to feel special. So do it in a way that’s not over the top and say, “Ah, Peter. I saw you were coming in. I like to know who my clients are, so I threw your name into a quick search, and I saw that you work at Two-Brain. That’s super exciting. I’ve always wanted to hire Two-Brain as a mentor.”
Peter Brasovan (13:27):
So know who you’re talking to, especially with LinkedIn. People want to be found, and people want to be seen, and they want to be heard. So again, you have to know with some context who you’re talking to and not go over the top, but you should know, “I’m talking to Peter Brasovan. These are some things I know about him.” People also—Mike, they love to hear their name. You should be trying to incorporate someone’s name into the sales process a minimum of three times, probably five to seven times by just saying, “Mike, I hear what you’re saying. Thanks for that great question. I’m so excited to talk to you today,”or “Mike, here’s your plan.” And the more you can work that in—again, not over the top, but doing it subtly and getting it in—people are going to feel like they’re the most special person to you during that time. So, know who you’re talking to.
Mike Warkentin (14:09):
Yeah. And it just makes sense because these resources are out there, and you can then use them to make connections, right? Who doesn’t want to be asked about their dog? Like, “Oh, you know, I saw you’ve got a dog. I have a dog too. What’s the name?” Like all of a sudden, you’re building rapport with this client, and it’s making this relationship so much smoother, so when you’re asking for a sale later on, they already know that you’re doing some work. You’re not treating them like a number or just a faceless person. You’re treating them like a real human being. You know something about them. You put in some extra effort; they’re going to be more inclined. Like you’re becoming a friend essentially, and if you do it the right way, like Peter said, you’re not saying, “I was creeping on your Facebook, and I saw you drunk on Main Street the other night.”
Mike Warkentin (14:45):
You’re not doing that. You’re just saying, “Hey, I saw you went on vacation. Like holy cow, you climbed whatever mountain that was. Wow, that’s incredible. That’s going to relate to your fitness goals. I can’t wait to hear what they are.” That kind of stuff is essential, and I’m going to take this further, Peter, if we go further on the client journey; this should never stop. You should never stop learning about your client. So, if you look at a picture, take a group picture of your next workout. Look through there. Can you name everybody? Can you name everybody’s spouse? Can you name everybody’s job or what they do? If you can’t do that stuff, you need to start asking more about your clients and getting to know them on a personal level. If you do, then you can ask for referrals. You can ask, “Hey, can your spouse come in? Can your friend come in?” If you don’t do that, there is a random client that I don’t really know anything about: “Do you have any friends who might like to join?” That’s crappy. Don’t do that. Take me further on this one. Is there anything else we need to know about finding out more about your clients?
Peter Brasovan (15:41):
It never does end. And internally we have a word we use: affinity, right? Affinity marketing. And that’s exactly what you’re talking about, and that does go into what we’re saying. So, a lot of what we’ve talked about so far today is all about the sales process in the client journey. But now it really sets the tone. Once they decide to join, you give them their best prescription for their most successful client journey. Now we go into how do we retain them for—the first focus needs to be only 90 days. If we go straight into long-term retention, we’re going to miss the most critical time in any journey is the first 90 days. So, in that time, affinity marketing goes a long way. If you start to understand who someone’s brother, sister, spouse is, who their neighbors are—what sports do they play?
Peter Brasovan (16:20):
Kickball, dodgeball, auxiliary things, softball, whatever. And then where do they work? What kind of coworkers they have. Because once someone becomes a member of your gym, losing a customer is the biggest threat, right? And that’s where the client journey is. We don’t realize this. We just probably spent 30 minutes to upwards of two hours to get this client in our doors between the No Sweat Intro, doing the research, all this stuff. And now we have this customer, and they probably have a minimum of two to seven people that they could bring into the gym if we start the affinity marketing process right then. So, your client journey at this point becomes really important. And as a smaller gym owner, what I’m about to say probably hits you right in the heartstrings. You need teammates to help them. And if you only are a one man, one woman show right now, this is tough.
Peter Brasovan (17:04):
But if you can start to think of things like a client success manager, even if they’re only part-time, five to seven hours a week, or your coaches. Your coaches are the front line, and they need to understand that every day they show up, they need to be hitting the processes of the client journey. If it’s Mike’s 20th class, they should know that because we’re checking people in. “Hey Mike, congratulations. You made 20 classes. You get your T-shirt today,” or whatever it might be. All client journeys should have some type of simplified process that tracks people at 30, 60 and 90 days at a minimum. And the coaches need to be in on that, or a client success manager needs to be in on that because that’s going to be critical to long-term success.
Mike Warkentin (17:43):
Now we’re not going to get into the exact details of SOPs and delegating, but we have shows on that. The short version: You need to systematize everything in your gym and decide what is a 10 out of 10. Communicate that to your staff along with your vision and then you get your staff members to perform to that level, either through mentorship or checklists, and make sure that you provide the accountability they need to serve your clients the way you want. Do that stuff, and your client journey could be a little bit different than we’re talking about, but whatever it is, everyone has to be on the same page, and everyone has to know their role, and you can delegate retention. In fact, when your gym gets bigger, you’re going to have to, but you have to do that with a system, and you have to ensure excellence within that system because otherwise, what happens? You get 300 clients, no one’s taking care of anything, and all of a sudden you have 150 clients, and everyone bled out. So that’s the short version. We have shows in our archives here for standard operating procedures and inspiring your staff. Check that stuff out because it will help you. Alright, take us on to the next essential element. What have we got?
Peter Brasovan (18:42):
Well, I do have the last essential element, but I want to hit on something you hit just for today’s purposes. Please, anyone listening to this who’s still not in mentorship or still on the fence about a client journey, really important—one of my favorite phrases possible is, “Action is greater than perfection,” and that also leads into: Client journeys are living documents. Whatever you start today will probably and should be different six months and 12 months from now. So don’t get frozen or paralyzed because Mike’s saying all these fancy things and go listen to other podcasts and episodes because they’re there, and you could do all this on your own, but just take action on that. Even if it’s as simple as updating that No Sweat Intro like we just talked about, that is better than doing nothing at the end of today’s call.
Peter Brasovan (19:21):
The next big thing though is to get those systems and processes in place. Do go listen to those things. But whatever you do today, keep it simple, Mike. Keep it super simple because you can make it better for the next 10 people come August or September or whenever it is in the next few months. The last big piece falls into this 90-day journey. These are the powerful moments. I cannot tell you how many gym owners—and you could go interview every gym owner. Tell me something you love about your gym that’s super special. A top comment is always, “We have the best community.” Newsflash, everyone should be saying that. And if they’re not saying that, then there probably is something really incorrect. So, if you are fighting the gym down the street for more clients, and you’re all saying, “We have the best community,” you need to really do something that sets yourself apart.
Peter Brasovan (20:07):
What is something that they cannot provide because you as the owner uniquely are doing for your gym? And to me this is serving powerful moments and unreasonable hospitality. If you are willing to write handwritten cards after somebody gets to their 25th class, or you’re giving a special 25th class T-shirt that you can’t get anywhere else, or you’re going ahead and sending somebody a card because they had a baby or because their dog passed away, sure other gyms can try to do that, but it will never sound the same as it does from who you are. And so, in your 90-day journey, again, keep it simple, but have at least three touch points. One at the 30-day, one at the 60-day, and one at the 90-day. That elevates a client to what we say, “putting them on a pedestal” and makes them feel like, “Holy cow, these people are really caring about me and tracking me along my process.”
Peter Brasovan (20:56):
And then at the very least, at that 90-day mark, as Mike said once earlier, and Chris Cooper talks about this all the time, there has to be a pre-scheduled 90-day check-in, and at that check-in, if you can come in with something that they weren’t expecting—maybe it’s a personalized water bottle at that time, or maybe it’s this personalized jump rope. But if you come to that meeting saying, “Congratulations on your first 90 days. I can’t wait to talk to you in a year,” that person’s going to be with you, and they’re going to become a raving fan. And so, for those powerful moments, that unreasonable hospitality, what can you do? And is it—I’m not trying to say break the bank; a lot of this can be done for free. Again, a handwritten card costs 30 cents and five minutes of your time.
Mike Warkentin (21:32):
And along your theme of keeping it simple, how about this? What if in your client journey, within the first 30 days, you had, “Owner or coach calls client to congratulate them on something that they’ve accomplished,” whatever it is. And what—it costs you nothing but a minute to pick up the phone and or even text a video and say, “Hey, I saw your name on the board yesterday. You deadlift a hundred pounds. Holy crap, you are so close. You’re so far on your way already towards your goal of X.” A simple thing like that costs nothing. But it improves the client experience. And all the gyms that are talking about community, like Peter said, how many of them are doing that? Almost none. Right? It could be just you, and if you are the client, think about how that makes you feel. Peter, what’s one of the most powerful moments that you’ve ever had for a client? Do you have any examples of something that was just like, “Oh my god, that was incredible.” Coop’s talked about this a few times when he’s had clients literally in tears crying about something that happened at the gym, and it was incredible. Have you got anything like that?
Peter Brasovan (22:28):
I have so many things like that.
Mike Warkentin (22:30):
Yeah, I have so many.
Peter Brasovan (22:31):
The best ones are probably not going to jump into my head, I know. If you guys don’t know me, I did sell my gym to a 50/50 partner, great friend of mine, but Myriad Health + Fitness, they relaunched the founder’s club because they moved their gym, and they allowed some of their oldest term members, longest seed clients, to have personalized barbells when they moved locations. So, they got them specified colors. I think they even tried to put their names on them, and now some of these longest time seed clients to have their own personalized barbell, and when I went to drop in there not too long ago, two guys wanted to show me their barbell: “Look at this barbell I got,” and it was one of the coolest client journey things I’ve ever seen. Like, thanks for putting up with us while we move all this stuff. And now I have my own orange and black barbell this guy showed me. I thought that was one of—really, that one brought me. And then a lot of times just simply recognizing people. We used to do a quarterly meetup for new members. This was so simple.
Mike Warkentin (23:20):
Oh, I like that. I like that.
Peter Brasovan (23:21):
It was so simple: “Hey guys, on the last Saturday morning of the month, we’re going to have some coffee and some snacks for you. If you’re a new member, come on in. I just want you to meet the other new members that are alongside.” And then, we specifically pick a few old members to come to that to help network. And that one was really powerful and so simple. It cost us a jug of coffee and a couple snacks and only five to 10 people were to join, but those five to 10 people were with us for years afterwards, and so quarterly meetups for new members was huge.
Mike Warkentin (23:48):
So, first 90 days, you’ve got to put some surprise-and-delight-type stuff in there that makes people happy, feel seen and accomplishing their goals, right? Chris has talked about this. If my goal is, “Lose 30 pounds,” that’s intimidating. But what if somewhere in that first 90 days, the person loses a pound? That’s a huge win, and you need to highlight that. And that’s again, goal plan and accountability. You are holding them. You’re showing them their success according to the plan, and you’re holding them accountable. We lost a pound; the next one’s coming—whatever it is. That’s just one example. Do this stuff, put this stuff, document it, and like Peter said, keep it simple, but put this stuff in there and add these touch points in. We touched on this a little bit, Peter, but I’m going to ask you this.
Mike Warkentin (24:27):
It sounds cool for you and me to like—we could do this with 80 people, we’d be great at it. What happens when gyms start to get bigger, and you have to have the staff people in place? And I want to ask you specifically about the client success manager’s role in this and delegating retention. Because every single gym owner I’ve talked to on the show who hires a client success manager says it is a 100% investment. They see a return on it, so talk about that one a little bit for me.
Peter Brasovan (24:49):
Yeah. And again, at my peak when I owned my gym before the pandemic, we were at 500 members, so we had this process dialed out in so many ways.
Mike Warkentin (24:56):
Yeah, let’s have some details then, and this’ll be good.
Peter Brasovan (24:58):
Yeah, absolutely. The number one thing is start with a highly organized, just highly personable person. Again, this stuff starts simple. We talk at such a high level on podcasts like this, but we all started at a very simple process. Find the person who’s the most organized and most energetic, and tell them what your goals are. “Hey person”—we’ll call Megan—”I need to get—every member needs to have a handwritten card at least twice a year, and I want them to have at least one touch point once a quarter, and I need the coaches to be a part of this process, so I need you to help me organize the coaches. Ultimately you are in charge, but you have them to work with you. And so, the CSM could be utilized in so many ways, but the first CSM probably needs to be about five to 10 hours a week, checking in on the new members first.
Peter Brasovan (25:44):
The new members are the most important right now if you’re just getting started with this process. So, take care of them for the first 90 days, and that should be about five hours a week. And the other five hours a week should be checking in on old members and working with the team to delegate. Are we doing goal reviews? We haven’t even talked about that in this episode. Goal reviews are so huge, right? If we’re doing goal reviews, that’s a beyond 90-day thing. And then are the coaches realizing that they—and I said this already—they are the absolute most important person? If a coach is coming in and they’re tired and exhausted and showing up to the 5 a.m. at 5:05, honestly, that’s a client success manager thing. Yes, the owner needs to take care of that—don’t get me wrong—but the client success manager needs to realize we are losing our ability to be the best gym because we’re showing up five minutes late. We need to be this, that, and the other, so we need to put our best people in front of the most amount of people. And the client success manager needs to be in charge of these people, riding the cars, doing all these things that we talked about today.
Mike Warkentin (26:36):
I’m going to give you a tip guys from one of our top gym owners. He had his client success manager run a report and find at-risk members who hadn’t been there within—it was like two to four weeks or something like that. That client success manager contacted all of them with a goal of reducing the list to zero, and he retained a huge percentage of them. Think about that. People who are potentially on their way out of your gym, what if you could save them with a phone call? That happens. So, that’s an interesting one that you guys could look at. Again, keep it simple, but that’s another market inside your gym where you can look at the client journey. Someone is on the verge of quitting: How do I keep them in there? Give me a couple quick details. Client success manager: What kind of pay rates are we looking at? Like this is like a $50 an hour job or $20, or what are we looking at here?
Peter Brasovan (27:18):
Well, one thing I wanted to hit because I said I had multiple—at about 150 people, you probably need to be having either an assistant client success manager or maybe a second client success manager. So, when we were at 500, we ended up having two people, but our coaching staff was heavily involved, and we would split our client list and say, “OK, you’re in charge of this many people,” so that was really important because we looked at career roadmaps as well—a whole other episode. But if you want to make a full-time career in your gym, then you could do more work by being a part of the client success team at that point for larger gyms. But the pay rates—really, it’s going to depend market by market still, and it’s going to depend on what your needs are. They still can be $15 an hour type of roles and tasks for a very starter gym. It still can be in many markets, but we are probably looking at something like $18 to $22 an hour type deal. But we’re still not breaking the bank on this. Five hours a week, maybe $100 to $150 a week. But if you keep one client each week longer, that pays for itself without even thinking.
Mike Warkentin (28:14):
It’s a no brainer. One client pays for the week of the client success manager, and it happens so regularly. And I’ll give you—I’ll ask you one other one. Does the client success manager get a checklist, or how do you keep that person on track?
Peter Brasovan (28:27):
Yeah, at the end of the day, it’s the same thing. What’s the SOP, and what is needed? So, we could blow this up really big, but as the owner, you’re looking at your value ladder. What are the things that you can do that bring the most value to the gym? And at that point you need to say, “Well, keeping clients longer is a really high-value role.” So, what does that mean? And then you write an SOP, and it should probably be a checklist. Very simple. I’ve used this so often today because most of this stuff just needs to be simple and clear. “These are the five to six tasks that must happen each week. They’re non-negotiable. If all of these are done, then here’s your list of things that are a little bit more negotiable. You’re sending videos, you’re sending flowers and doing something else.”
Peter Brasovan (29:00):
We actually—one last thing that was really important. We gave our client success—she came to us one day and she’s like, “I really want to do all these things. How come I can’t do them? I don’t understand.” I was like, “Well, what do you need to be successful?” She’s like, “I just need a budget.” And I was like, “What? I’ll give you $500 a month.” Again, we are a large gym. I could afford that. “$500 a month. Keep it in these parameters. Do whatever you want, keep the receipts, and let me know what it is.” And all of a sudden people were getting flowers, and they were getting gift cards to the restaurant, and they were getting all these things, and she loved it because we did have a checklist. We gave her parameters to work with, and then we gave her a budget to work with and then she just took off from there.
Mike Warkentin (29:31):
That’s delegating retention. The analogy I always like to use is the baseball diamond. You can play anywhere within these lines. Outside these lines are out, but you have free reign in here and get the stuff done, and we’re going to track metrics, and we’re going to see: Is the retention, length of engagement, is that improving? If yes, continue. If no, adjust. That’s the clear part of delegating retention. You cannot just push it. You can’t abdicate and say, “Do the stuff.” You have to get the lists in place, give the options and the resources, check in and mentor, and then things will improve. So, let’s go on to this one. What are some of the sticking points in a client journey? Like you’ve got one, and you’ve set one up. Where are some of the things where you’ve commonly seen people or things go off the rails for gym owners?
Peter Brasovan (30:11):
Oh, inconsistency.
Mike Warkentin (30:13):
Yep. That’s a big one.
Peter Brasovan (30:14):
Oh god. Inconsistency is absolutely the biggest one. You do it for the first three clients, and then you don’t follow through with every step on client four and five; then you try to get on six. Oh, that is absolutely the biggest derailment. And then they get frustrated. Gym owners get frustrated. We say, “It doesn’t work.” We have to deliver an A product every time. And then also just letting—you must, as the gym owner, be in the driver’s seat. I’m going to say that in the affirmative, the gym owner must be in the driver’s seat. I hear—and the reverse of that is, “Well, the client doesn’t want a goal review. Oh no, my clients are different. Our clients don’t do goal reviews.” Oh, if I had a dollar for every time that’s said. That’s because you’re letting them dictate what the gym looks like.
Peter Brasovan (30:48):
But if you are saying, “We do goal reviews,” fine, change it to a synonym. “We do athlete check-ins.” “We do client check-ins.” “I just want to know what’s going on in your life. Hey, how are you doing?” It doesn’t have to be the specific word “goal review,” but by letting the client dictate if they do or don’t show up or if they do or don’t give you affinity marketing, then that’s where these things get really derailed. If you’re just a fly on the wall in your gym and listening to someone on a Monday say, “Oh, I had a great weekend. I went boating. I did this, this and this,” and you’re jotting that down, that’s a part of affinity marketing. So, this is—the positive is do this every day. The affirmative is do this every day and be a part of the client journey. The things that people get derailed on is they just are passive on it. They’re not consistent on it. They let the client dictate the journey, and then they don’t follow through with the coaches or hold them accountable. And so that lack of accountability and lack of follow through are the biggest things.
Mike Warkentin (31:37):
System rot is a huge problem. I had it in my gym. I created a standard operating procedure, a whole giant book. I was so proud of it. I never updated it. It was worthless within a year. It’s a living document. You have to keep that stuff going. And like we said at the very beginning of the show, every client must get the same standard of excellence if you’re going to be an excellent business. If you’re not, if one client gets excellent service and the rest get a C, not a good gym. So, you’ve got to keep that stuff top of mind. It’s funny because that happens so much. You put together this great amazing client journey and then implementing it, you just can’t do it. It never happens. And you’re just like, “What did I do?” You know? Did that happen at your gym? Was there any backsliding, or were you able to keep it right in line?
Peter Brasovan (32:16):
There was always backslide unfortunately, but every time, we learned, and we grew. We thought one person could do it. She was a rockstar. She did it as best she could, and she’s like, “Guys, I’m overwhelmed.”
Mike Warkentin (32:25):
Five hundred is a lot.
Peter Brasovan (32:26):
Yeah. Then we delegated: “OK, between 10 staff members, everyone has 50 people.” Sounded phenomenal until we weren’t holding everyone accountable. Everyone wasn’t delivering the same level of excellence. So, we went through and kept learning, but we were always consistent in follow through with, “Is this process working?” So, did we have rot? Maybe not rot, but we had failure or mistakes, but we were always keeping it up and keeping it growing. And so, yeah. A lot of learning process by mistakes and growth.
Mike Warkentin (32:57):
So, what are the rewards? Now let’s talk about what gym owners are going to get out of this. So, what are the rewards for putting together an airtight client journey—either done by you, the owner, or by the staff members or as a group, whatever your business model is—what are the rewards for doing this long-term and establishing this excellence?
Peter Brasovan (33:13):
What are the rewards for long-term client journey success? What a beautiful question. Imagine this, right? You get to 150 clients, everything looks wonderful, and you could keep every client forever. I know this is farfetched. People move; people’s lives change. Babies happen. I know it is. But in theory, if you only lost one to two clients a month because of moving and life circumstances and then you gained, let’s call it two losses a month and gained four a month, you’d have 24 extra clients by the end of the year. So, an airtight client journey allows you to really back off the need for more sales. You might not even have to run ads or do anything big because your client journey is so airtight that you might be just getting referrals on the backend and get two to four new members and lose one or two because people move, and you get such a big reward. People just don’t understand that losing customers is absolutely more detrimental than the need for gaining more customers. And an airtight client journey allows you to keep clients longer, and that’s the bottom line.
Mike Warkentin (34:13):
Yep. And I’m going to go even further, and I’m going to suggest, based on Two-Brain data, an airtight client journey—using the prescriptive model, No Sweat Intros, goal review session—increases length of engagement. It goes well beyond the industry standard of like 7.8 months, which is terrible. Two-Brain clients will be over 20 months, which is huge. You think about the math on that; that is huge. And that comes all from that model. Average revenue per member in this model goes up. Every client who does—sorry, 30% of clients who do goal review sessions will upgrade their packages by about 30%. That drives up ARM; everything gets better. All these metrics start to go up, so lifetime value goes up, profit goes up, gross goes up; everything goes up in your business. And I’ll give you this one, tacking what Peter said, marketing costs may go down because you don’t need as many clients.
Mike Warkentin (35:00):
You don’t need to replace as many clients. And get this, every client who comes in has a whole bunch of friends and a spouse, partner, whatever—you can probably get one of those, so every person that comes in is a plus one. All these people stay longer and refer more people. There is a gym, Sara Snellman runs it in Zurich, Switzerland. She has—I think it’s capped at like 340 members or something like that. She has zero marketing costs. She loses, from 340, 10 members a month. That’s it, and she replaces them by going to her waiting list and saying, “You’re up,” and that’s all she does. She also gets other clients back. She’ll call former clients and say, “Hey, we’ve got a spot. You want to come back?” and they do. Zero marketing costs, huge revenue, and it’s all based on this model. So, we can’t understate how important this thing is. Peter, let’s close this off. Give someone out there—we’ve gone through a ton of stuff, and you said keep it simple. What is a simple thing someone can do today to start on this path of the client journey? What would you advise?
Peter Brasovan (35:57):
Simple thing today? Oh man, I want—keep it simple. Have lead capture on your website. So, the first thing that someone does when they come into your gym is just give you their name and email and keep it less than two clicks.
Mike Warkentin (36:10):
I like it. So, you’re going to check your systems right now. Check your system. Go to your website. How difficult is it for someone who has just visited your site to give you contact information? Is it like 17 different clicks and this thing that was hidden on my website where you’ve got to figure out how to do it? Or is it super easy where it’s like, “Hey, I can give you this free guide. Want it? Email address,” or whatever it is. So do something there. I’m going to give you a second step: If you’re super aggressive, figure out what to do after that. You’ve got this person’s contact info, what are you going to do? My advice: Call them within five minutes and ask about their fitness goals. Those are two simple things, and you can try that with the next lead that you get. So, try that today. Put that down. Peter, thanks so much for doing the client journey for us. If people use this, I think all metrics are going to go up. Do you agree?
Peter Brasovan (36:56):
Oh, absolutely.
Mike Warkentin (36:58):
It’s a no brainer. Thanks so much for being here, Peter. I appreciate it.
Peter Brasovan (37:01):
Thank you.
Mike Warkentin (37:02):
My name is Mike Warkentin, and this is “Run a Profitable Gym.” Please hit “subscribe” wherever you’re watching or listening because we do this twice a week every week with Chris Cooper and John Franklin and the best of the fitness business. And now here’s Chris Cooper with a final word.
Chris Cooper (37:13):
Hey, it’s Two-Brain founder Chris Cooper with a quick note. We created the Gym Owners United Facebook group to help you run a profitable gym. Thousands of gym owners, just like you, have already joined. In the group, we share sound advice about the business of fitness every day. I answer questions, I run free webinars, and I give away all kinds of great resources to help you grow your gym. I’d love to have you in that group. It’s Gym Owners United on Facebook, or go to gymownersunited.com to join. Do it today.
