Greg: 00:00 – It’s Greg Strauch of Two-Brain Media. And on this week’s episode we talk to Sherman Merricks. He is a Two-Brain mentor, owner of CrossFit Dynasty. But what we dig into is the art of selling: common issues, marketing and sales. We talk about the Incubation process and the start of sales and then how we can elaborate on top of that. We talk about making sure you’re asking the right questions and the most common objections that you may hear and how to overcome them. Subscribe to Two-Brain Radio to hear the very best ideas, topics to move you and your business closer to wealth.

Greg: 00:36 – Two-Brain Radio is brought to you by Two-Brain Business. We make gyms profitable. We’re going to bring you the very best tips, tactics, interviews in the business world each week. To find out how we can help you create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at

Chris: 00:56 – Hey guys, it’s Chris Cooper here. If you are headed to the CrossFit Games, I would like to buy you breakfast. So here’s what we’re doing. Together with Healthy Steps Nutrition, we have rented out the banquet facilities at the Sheraton across the road from the CrossFit Games and we’re taking about 250 people a day. You can come in and have breakfast with us. We’ll be talking a little bit about business, but the most important thing that always happens at these breakfasts, aside from the bacon and coffee, is the conversations. We have limited seating that’s gonna fill up, you can fill in the form in our show notes and make sure that you reserve yourself a spot. We’re going to do it at 7:30 a.m. on both Saturday and Sunday of the CrossFit Games. We will see you in Madison.

Greg: 01:37 – All right, I’m on another amazing episode of Two-Brain Radio with one of our amazing mentors. Sherman, how are you sir?

Sherman: 01:43 – I’m doing great, Greg, excited to talk to you.

Greg: 01:47 – I’m always excited to have you on and I wanted to dive into something. And it’s the S word, sales, that everyone talks about. Especially from any business sense, right? If you own a business, you have to sell something, whether it’s your services, your product or whatever. But it definitely is something that is a necessity, but it gets scary. I mean I opened my business for having people come through the door and be able to be healthier and live longer. But that also means I have to sell them on what we’re able to do and our services. So I kind of want to sit down with you cause you are the guru of sales and we’ll dive into a little bit of the amazing things you’ve been doing within Two-Brain and the Growth clients and everything through sales. But let’s kind of jump into it. Talk to me about your sales process. So talk to me from the very beginning. Somebody finds you guys or contacts you and then they’re coming in through the door. Talk to me how that process kind of works.

Sherman: 02:47 – Yeah, definitely. So sorta like you mentioned before I jump into it. I think that one of the big things that sort of scares people is the S word—it’s funny cause when you first said “the S word” I was thinking Sherman. So you were talking about sales. Seriously, I think that sales is super important because everyone, you know, like we talked about earlier, every coach is coaching and selling from day one. When they first opened the doors, they’re going to coach, they’re going to sell, right. The issue is some people don’t know that they’re selling and that’s when we run into these major problems, you know, that we see in our micro-gym community, in businesses at large for that matter. So for us, when someone comes into a funnel, we reach out to them fairly quickly. You know, we’re trying to follow up with them within, you know, five minutes if possible, as soon as possible we’re following up with these guys to basically check on them and let them know, hey, we’re here for you. We’re excited to meet you, if they’ve already booked an appointment. But if they haven’t booked an appointment, we’re reaching out to them and saying, hey Greg, we saw that you’re interested, how can we get you in? From there, if we can get them in, we will send them a few confirmation emails and text messages just so they know, hey, we’re waiting. And when they come in, that’s when we really get excited because we know if they show up, you know, I think this is a misconception that people like to say that, oh, you know, people just aren’t sign up or they don’t have the money. And now that’s the case sometimes. But it’s not the case most of the time. If someone goes online, they find you, they fill out a form online, they interact with you back and forth, they drive across town, they come into your business and sit down with you for a No-Sweat Intro or free consultation, whatever you call it, they’re interested. They are looking for a change. So now it’s on us to provide that value. And that’s really where for the last couple of years, few years, my staff and I, we’ve really been working on the sales process because if we can’t show these people how we can help them, we’re doing them a disservice. Right? Like we really are. So when they come in to us, it’s all about them, right? It is not the sort of the typical used-car salesman that everyone likes to talk about, which I know some great used-car salesmen so that thing is getting sort of played out, you know? But it’s not that high-pressure, only trying to close a deal. We’re trying to figure out, hey, why are you here? Why are you looking for a change? What are you currently doing? What have you done in the past so that we can basically help them get to where they want to go. And at the gist of it, that’s it. Like it’s really that simple from a macro level.

Greg: 05:48 – So, diving into that, if a gym owner is listening, would you suggest that they talk about the benefits of their gym or of their community, of their programming or anything like that?

Sherman: 06:06 – Great question. So absolutely not. We all have—I haven’t met many business owners, micro-gym owners, that don’t care about their business or don’t care about their community or don’t care about their product. Right? You don’t meet many of those, ’cause you don’t go into entrepreneurship to have a sub-par product or service. Right? So when you’re talking about the best community in Philadelphia, or our equipment is the best in town and we have 78 rowers or 68 Assault Bikes. Right? That’s fine. But I think we’ve all heard the saying you sell the vacation, not the travel. Right? Like not the travel to the vacation. For instance, I’m getting ready to go on vacation at the end of this month. My wife and I are celebrating our anniversary and we’re going down to Barbados. Right? Barbados is going to be amazing. But what, they don’t sell us, they don’t sell us the car drive to the airport. The four-hour, five-hour flight down to Barbados, the car drive from the airport to the hotel and back. They don’t sell you that because that’s not what sells. Same thing with us in the micro-gym community, the CrossFit community. We’re not selling best programming, best community. We are selling what the clients want. We’re selling, you’re going to lose weight, you’re going to feel better. You’re going to be more lean. You’re going to have more confidence. You’re going to get off this medication that you’re on. So often, I see everyone talking about the stuff that doesn’t matter. And we need to really change the way that we’re doing our marketing in general.

Greg: 08:02 – So you’re saying we should focus in on not what we can offer, but really what they want out of it?

Sherman: 08:12 – Yes, exactly. Because I’ve been in the CrossFit community long enough. What we offer is very—it’s a very good service. There’s not too many gyms, too many CrossFit gyms around that if was someone came to us three times a week and they did customized nutrition, we could not absolutely change their lives in six months. Not many gyms can say that. Right? So we need to be talking about how are we going to help them get to where they want to go.

Greg: 08:48 – So what is your process then when they come in and sit down? What are the questions that you’re asking them?

Sherman: 08:55 – One of the first questions that we ask them after we spend about a solid five minutes or so getting to know them, right? Like we’re spending time just getting to know this person, right? Like yes we want them to sign up and all of that, but we’re really spending about five minutes just getting to know them. Where are they from? How long have they been in town? You know, we’re trying to get to know them as a person. But after that, one of the first questions we ask is, what are you wanting? Why are you here? Why have you jumped through all these hoops to sit down in front of me right now? And that really directs the rest of the conversation, Greg, when we sit down and ask them, hey, great, why are you here? What are you hoping that we can do for you? And from there it can go a thousand different ways because you know, I’ve been sitting in intros where it was great all the way through and I’ve been sitting in intros where people are crying their eyes out because they’re unhappy with their body or maybe they have other stuff that’s gone on in the past directed to their health and fitness. So sitting down with them, the first question everyone should be asking, why are you here? What are you wanting us to help you with?

Greg: 10:13 – OK. And now let’s say you get through those questions and you’re asking them everything and you find out, OK, one of the services we have to offer is going to be best for them. And meeting and exceed those goals, how does that process go? Cause that’s usually that sticking point, I would say, when somebody is on the other side of the table actually offering their services, that’s where they kind of feel like, OK, well I’m gonna just give him my lowest price or I’m just going to give him all these options to choose from. What exactly should people be doing and what is your process?

Sherman: 10:47 – Yeah, definitely. So I’m going to talk about my process because that’s what everyone should be doing, I think. So basically when we are talking to them and before we start talking about pricing, because most of the consultations in any type of business, they go well up until you start talking about pricing. But the whole sales process doesn’t start until you get your first objection, right? Like it doesn’t start. So basically we’re sitting down, we’re talking with them. Let’s say you and I were going back and forth, Greg. You and I, we’ve been talking, you told me that you want to lose 15 pounds. You know, work is crazy. You have kids and a wife. Life has just gotten out of hand these last few years. So you want to get some confidence back and drop 15 pounds. So we’re gonna go through all that and then I’m going to say, OK, great. I am going to definitely help you here. But Greg, I have a question for you before I make a recommendation for you. Tell me this, Greg. Is there anything that could stop you from signing up today, right now? Now the reason that that we do this is because we want to start handling objections before they become objections, right? So if I ask you that question and you tell me it’s the schedule, I am going to handle that before I move on. So I’m going to say, OK, Greg, tell me this. What would you ideally like to work out? And whatever you tell me, I’m going to look at our schedule and say, yes, we have classes that could work with that, if we don’t have group classes, we know that we all have personal training. So either way the schedule is going to work out for this client at our facility, right? So from there we may say, hey, is there anything else they could stop you? Most people are only going to give you one or two objections at the most, but the biggest issue of this is you want to deal with these objections early before you get to the price point. Because basically if you’ve gotten through all their objections, there’s really not a reason that they wouldn’t sign up.

Greg: 13:10 – Very true.

Sherman: 13:12 – Yeah. So you know, once we go through that, now, once you get the person to commit until you hey, like there’s nothing else that could stop me. I’m just like, you have to have a smooth and easy transition. You know, I see myself as a funny guy, so I use humor a lot. You know, humor sales, you know, people like to laugh, people like to be made feel that they are funny and special. So like, I use humor and comedy in all of my consultations. But even if you’re not a funny person, you need to have a smooth transition. And what I like to say is, OK, great. Now you told me that nothing’s going to stop you from signing up, which is great. I’m very excited. But Greg, I just wanted to make sure you and I are on the same page because once I work very hard right here and think about what you need, I don’t want you to tell me that you need to go talk to your wife or you need to think about it for a night. Like I know you’re ready to go.

Greg: 14:08 – Would you say those are the two most common objections that you have happen when you do No-Sweat Intros?

Sherman: 14:17 – Yeah. Yes, yes, definitely. Price or I need to talk to someone else. Definitely.

Greg: 14:23 – Now how do you actually handle those? When somebody does say, when you asked earlier, hey, what objection or what things may come in the way of you not signing up today? How do you overcome when they say, well, I need to talk to my spouse or I need to think about it. Those kinds of things.

Sherman: 14:42 – Those are easy because we haven’t talked about price point yet. Now this is where the sales process starts to get like—it takes practice, right? Like I can say it easily now, but I wasn’t saying this easily eight years ago. I was reading books and practicing and taking courses and trying to figure all this stuff out because I was seeing that man, I’m getting in front of a lot of people. A lot of people aren’t signing up. Now, this was when CrossFit was very, very new. When people just thought we were crazy running around with backpacks on and all of that. But let’s say that someone tells me, hey, the only thing that can stop me is my spouse, like, I’m not sure if they’re going to be on board. I’m going to say, OK, that’s not a big deal. Now we know, again, humor, smooth. Like this is key. I’ll say, now Greg, you know that your wife wants you to be extremely good-looking, right? You know they’re going to say, yeah, you’re right. You know, want to say, OK, I tell you what, I’m going to step out of the room for five minutes. I want you to call them and then I’ll come back in so we don’t have to worry about that before we move on any longer cause I don’t want to waste your time. I know that your time is important, so I want you to call your wife right now. I’ll step out and then I’ll come back in. How does that sound? Now you’re going to get one or two answers. The person is going to call or are they going to say no, no, I’ll just wait till I get home. Now nine times out of 10 they say they’re going to wait till they get home. They’re just giving you the push-out cause they don’t want to tell you no to your face. You know, and you may not be able to get the real objection, right. Because it’s easier for them to just tell you, hey, I’ll think about it, to your face. And then we’ve all had this happen a thousand times where they say yes, let me think about it or call me tomorrow, and either A, you call them and they never pick up your call. They never return your text message, or B, you call them and they answer and say no, they said no. And they blame it on them. I mean, I use that technique as well. I mean, you know, easy technique, make my wife the villain when she’s not around. Hey man, my wife would kill me, you know. Oh you should call her. She has three kids. She’s not gonna answer the phone right now. That’s me politely saying, hey, I’m really not interested, for whatever reasons, you know. And so that’s the spouse.

Sherman: 16:54 – Now the price, this one is fun, right? I really enjoy this one because the price, again, this is also great. This is definitely the objection that most business owners absolutely botch, for lack of a better term, because what we’ve seen over the years, people are going to project what they think onto the situation or what they can afford, right? And that’s a huge, huge mistake. Now, before I go on, I’ll say that I’ve made this mistake, I still remember this mistake every single month. So let me give you a little story. So that when I first started my gym, you know when you first start, Greg, it is basically you have to fill out all the paperwork. When you deal with the people that are going to be processing your payment is they sort of gave you a minimum and a maximum amount that you will charge without triggering some type of email or something. So back when I first started mine, you know, the minimum was whatever, but the maximum, I was like, well it shouldn’t be, what? 1000 bucks, right? No one’s ever going to pay me 1000 bucks per month. So like that’d be safe. So if something over a thousand bucks per a month comes up, shoot me an email because it’s probably something I need to look into. I didn’t think anything of it. Fast forward to now, for the last few years, I get multiple emails every single month for people that pay us over $1,000 per month. But the reason I don’t go in and change it because it helps me realize that that projection right there is what you need to be helping other business owners with. Because that projection that I set forth years ago, when I never thought anyone would pay us a thousand dollars a month. Now I get multiple emails every single month that say, hey, you have suspicious activity on your account. There’s a charge for $1,300, $1,200. But to come right back to the objection, when you talk about price, I would ask you, hey, Greg, so if price is the big objection, tell me this: What’s your budget? Because I don’t want to recommend these amazing packages for you, these amazing services that we can give you if it’s way out of your budget. Most people are gonna say, no, I really don’t have anything. This is where it gets fun and you throw out just a random large number. I usually say, OK, well tell me this, how does a thousand dollars a month sound? They’re gonna say no, definitely not. I say, well, you told me you didn’t know, so I’m just throwing out a number. Right? OK, so if it’s not a thousand bucks, give me a better idea. Is it 300, 200, 400 what is it? And this works most of the time, because you’re going to get a real number. Now, the next question that I get most of the time is people, they’ll say, well, what if they say $20 a month? OK, that’s fine, right? You know that you can’t service them at your gym for $20 a month or $99 a month. There’s nothing wrong with that. You say, hey, Greg, listen. I’m not sure we can help you right now at $99 a month. However, I do have this package, and you basically look at your cheapest package and you show them that. I say, we do have this. Now this is a good starting point. It’s not the best starting point, but this is a good one. So I would love to get you signed up for this package right here today, if at all possible.

Sherman: 20:12 – And you hand them that and you let them decide. Now here’s the thing. If they just said they have $30 a month and you’re showing them a package for 199, well, you’re just sort of throwing a Hail Mary and hoping that they go for the 199 package. Is it the absolute best package that you offer? Absolutely not. But is it better than them leaving? Absolutely. Nine times out of 10 if someone names a really low number, they’re not going to sign up. Right? And that’s OK. We can’t serve everyone, right? Like we’re not big box gyms. So we know that we’re not going to have 10,000 members in our gym. That’s OK. You know, a lot of the gyms that I work with, we’re trying to get, you know, 150 members, that’s sort of that Dunbar’s number, and if you have 150 members with the average revenue per member of 300 bucks, you have a very healthy gym, right? You have very healthy gym at 150 members and if you keep your profit margin stuff where it needs to be. So there’s nothing wrong with telling someone they can’t work with you. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. But to bring it back, let’s say that they, you know, you say $1,000 per month, this person says, you know, the most I can spend is 300. That’s no problem. Most gyms have something that they can produce for a client for around 300 bucks. And then I just move on. I just say, OK, that’s not a problem. We have plenty of options. I know we can help you with that. And I just move on through the process until I come back to actually trying to sign them up. But that’s the way to do it. Now here’s the thing. I’m saying it like it’s something easy. It takes training, it takes time. It takes practice. Because most of the time, most of the people that I work with, they tell me literally their hearts are beating out of their chest when they start talking about pricing, right? Like they start talking about pricing their hearts are beating out of their chests. It’s funny, I was just training two of my staff members yesterday, so I was giving them a story. So I’ll give you guys the story as well. I had a lady reach out to me and she was asking about our memberships. She was saying that she was—so I’m in Gainesville, Florida, University of Florida, right? Big college town. So she was telling me, hey, I’m a college student. I really want to get in shape. You know, I want to have abs and all of this stuff. I’m like, hey, we definitely help you. She like, what’s the price? Like she’s asking this over email and I’m like, hey, our prices sort of range anywhere from 199 to $1,500 a month. But what’s your budget? She like, oh, I budgeted for like 150 but I may be able to make the 188 work. I’m just like, OK. I was like, I tell you what. The best thing for us to do is get you in so we can talk about what’s best for you and then we’ll figure out the best package, but I think we can definitely work together. So she comes in. Long story short, when she left that day at the meeting with me, she signed up for a $300 package. Now how does that work? She just told me the most she can spend is 150, she may be able to make 199 work if she stretched it out, but after she’s meeting with me now, she signed up for $300 a month package. Because the price is the easiest thing for people to talk about. It’s easy for them to ask you because they don’t know what else to ask. How much is it? It doesn’t matter how much it is. What do you want? Right. Because if you want it bad enough, you will do it. People pay for what’s important to them. My best friend, he’s a surgeon, you know, so he told me years ago, he was like, I have people that come to me and you know they need to have a procedure that may cost $10,000. Like when they first come to me, maybe it’s not urgent. So I tell them, hey, it’s $10,000. You need to get this sooner than later. They’ll say, oh, I don’t have $10,000, how am I supposed to pay for this? But when they can’t sleep at night and they’ve been up for a week straight because of the pain, when they come to me, when they’re in dire need, somehow they have $10,000. Because people pay for what’s important to them. And I’ve been equating that to my business for years. If it’s not important to them or I can’t show them the value, they’re not going to do it and that’s on me or it’s on them. But either way, not prices, and that’s the way it is. And I don’t get involved in that well you get a discount or I’m sorry, and like all of that stuff, you know.

Greg: 24:46 – Yeah, no, I like that statement, too, of people are going to value what they see that is important. I know when I jump on calls and somebody talks about pricing or objection to pricing, and perfect example is I actually had a client that talked about how they want to pay for these certain roles and do these certain things, but they didn’t have the money, but they went and just bought a bunch of equipment. And I’m like, you got to understand that—I understand you value things and I’m never going to judge you on this. But you say that you don’t have the money, but yet you are willing to go buy all this equipment. You just put your emphasis on what you thought was the most important to you at the time, which is OK, but understand that it’s going to be a sacrifice then if you’re trying to do these other things and pay for these roles, if you’re willing to do something like that. I always use the equation too of a Louis Vuitton purse. You can buy one in Louis Vuitton for whatever amount, let’s say $1,200, and you can get one that looks just like it at like a flea market for 20 bucks. And they were probably made in the same factory and made by the same people, but one’s Louis Vuitton because it has that branding in it. But it’s the same materials. There’s no real difference to it. But you have that illusion that Louis Vuitton purse from the store is more expensive when it really isn’t.

Greg: 26:16 – So now, and this is something that was brought up in the Summit and my head coach was the one that brought it up and I’ve seen you do it before and I love it and I want to get this information out to everybody. So when let’s say somebody, let’s say I came in and I told you, yeah, I want to lose 15 pounds and I want to get lean and do all these things, look good naked. And price isn’t—I say, OK, I don’t have a budget, don’t have a number. And you say thousand and it’s like, well, let’s see what that offers. Can you explain how you go through that process? Cause I love the process that you have built out with your pricing sheets.

Sherman: 26:57 – I think that one of the biggest things that we want to talk about when it comes to pricing is it is our duty as professionals, right? Like we’re health and fitness professionals, to offer the client the absolute best service that we offer every single time, right? Like, I don’t care if they answer on the intake questionnaire, and I hope everyone has intake questionnaires, I don’t care if they say they’re interested in personal training or they’re interested in group. We want to talk about the absolute best thing for them when they come in. So what we do, we have a tiered structure that we offer every single thing and I like to call it a selling from the top down. Right? And what I mean by that, we are going to sell or offer our premium service first every single time. And what that looks like, someone comes in, we go through the entire process. Now we’re getting to the fun part where we’re talking about price. And I’m saying great, OK, based on the results that you want. I know, Greg, I’ve been doing this long enough, for you to get to your results the quickest, best thing for you is three times a week personal training plus customized nutrition. Now when we do that, we’re doing that for a couple of reasons. We are doing it one, because we’re offering them the best service. You know, we can get into the back and forth of, oh well what if they want group or what if they don’t like PT? No, we’re talking about the best service. Is it better to learn—I play basketball. Is it better to learn basketball from a coach one-on-one while I can have their undivided attention? Or is it better for me to be at basketball practice trying to learn how to get better? We all know athletes are made in the summertime when they have to work on their skills individually. Same thing rings true for fitness. So we offer personal training every single time. Now when we do this, we actually tell them what we know is best. So you know, we say, hey, three times a week personal training plus customized nutrition. But here are a couple of other offers. Now this is only a one sheet. Again, this is premium service so prices range anywhere from 700 to $1,500 a month. And I’ll say, great, this is the one I recommend, but you can choose any one off of this sheet. Which one of these work for you, Greg, and I’ll hand you that sheet, Greg, and then I sit back and I shut my mouth and I don’t say a word until you tell me I will not pay for this.

Greg: 29:30 – And is there a reason why you do it that way?

Greg: 29:35 – So the reason we do it that way because one, just because someone says something is expensive doesn’t mean they don’t pay for it. Right? Like people that know me personally, I’m a frugal guy, right. Like I drive an old, old car. My wife hates it, but I’m just like, it does the job, right? Like it does the job. Like however, the price of most things don’t really affect my buying decisions. So like I’ll go in and I’ll ask for a discount everywhere I go, you know? But if they tell me no, that’s fine. I was just asking. What if they say yes, then I had a discount just for asking a question. So the reason that we do that, because I want them to see one, this is how you want to get your results the fastest. Two, I want them to see these price points because I’m basically price anchoring them, right? So when they see a sheet with $700 a month, $900 a month, 1200, $1500 a month. Now only 10 to 15% of people are going to go for that type of service walking in off the street. That’s totally fine. So for the other 85 to 90% that is for them to see, hey, I could be coming to this gym for $1,200 a month. And now when we move onto the next piece, I say, hey Greg, that’s OK. Like if they tell me they just can’t do it, right? If they tell me they just can’t, I’m going to say great, no big deal if you can’t do it. I just wanted you to see the premium service that we offer so you can know if at anytime your results slow down or you’re not extremely happy, we have something else to offer you. Right? And that’s where we start every single time. And then we basically move our way down. We’ll move to our mid-tier offer from there. Now, once we go from a price sheet with 900, 1200 ,$1,500 a month on it, now they’re going to see a price sheet with three, four or $500 a month on it. This price doesn’t look so bad, right? It doesn’t look so bad. Now, they’re not getting the premium service, but they’re still getting a very, very good service here and most people fall into this category. You know? After they see that premium offering most of their hearts are beating fast, they’re thinking have I wasted my time. That’s more than my mortgage. I can’t pay that. And then now when I show them a sheet with $300 a month on, they’re like, yes. Like yes, I can take that one. I know it’s not the best, but it has pretty much everything I need and that’s where we go. Now let’s say that I handed them the sheet and we played this game again, you know, hey, Greg, which one of these work for you? I’ve had plenty of people look at one of my price sheets and say, oh man, I can’t do this like this so much. I’m still sitting there in the awkward silence cause I love awkwardness, right? So I’m still sitting there sort of looking and then they say, bbut I can do this for two or three months. I can’t do this long term. And I’m like, great, perfect. You don’t need to do this long term. You do this for two or three months. We’re getting you off on an excellent start. So let’s get you started here and in two months you and I and one of my coaches, we’ll sit down again and figure out what’s the best step to proceed. And then we have a signup, right? What we see a lot of times is, you know coaches, you know coaches that we’re training, they’re new to the sales thing. I’ll say, hey, sell from the top down. So they understand that, they will hand the client the price sheet, they will make a recommendation for the premium service. Soon as the client says, wow, this is kind of expensive. They say, oh, this is OK, they snatch the sheet out of their hand and they hand them another sheet that they’re comfortable with and they really didn’t give the client a chance to buy. They didn’t give the client a chance to get the service that will get them the results that they really wanted the quickest, you know. So that’s the way we do it. In our gym we basically have three offerings. So it’s premium, mid-level service. Our final offer, I don’t call it our low-service, our final offer, and that’s sort of our summer/slash boot camp-type program, doesn’t um, you know, doesn’t require it’s basically, you know, body weight stuff, moving around, conditioning and then we offer them that price sheet again and each one of the levels we are telling them what we think they should do. And then we do let them decide though, but we tell them every single time on every single sheet, hey Greg, this is what I think you should do. However, here are your two options. OK, that doesn’t work. This is what I think you should do, but you can choose whatever one works for you. And then from there when they choose, we still tell them, hey Greg, I’m glad that you chose this option.

Sherman: 34:22 – And then we sort of give them sort of some little marks and we say, hey, Greg. You know, as you saw, I recommended a couple things before you chose this. Now this is a excellent option for you, you’re going to get results. However, if you come here for 60 to 90 days and you’re not seeing the results you want, come back to me because you know offerings and this has been a huge help for us, Greg, because I mean you’ve been in gym ownership long enough, you know, how often do we have people that come to us for 60, 90, a hundred, you know, six months, 12 months. They’re like, they are great members, they are consistent members. But all of a sudden they come to us and say, hey, I want to take a break because I’m going to try to run three days a week. Well, that’s because we haven’t told them that, hey, if you’re not getting the results you want, come back to me so I can get you in the right membership. And they know, well, you know, Greg, did tell me that there were a couple of other options that were better than what I was chose. I was chosen just for budget. Why don’y you try to make one of those higher level offerings work? So that’s the way that we do it every single time. That’s the way I’ve train my staff for years to do it, that’s about how long it takes to get everyone truly trained on the sales process. But that’s the way we do it every single time. And we’re selling from the top down and really trying to figure out what is the absolute best for the client, not what’s best for their pocketbook.

Greg: 35:53 – No, I love that idea of having those different options, especially being able to say, OK, if that top tier didn’t work for them to have the next one. And because I think the other thing is too many people jump to that lowest price point, especially if price was an issue when they mentioned it in the beginning, and they completely change their pricing to the lowest option when possibly that middle tier could have been perfect for them.

Sherman: 36:21 – Well, that’s the thing, right? If you start off at your lowest offering, like so many business owners do, you give them the lowest tier offering, that’s the first offering that they see, let’s just say man, that’s too expensive. Well, what do you go from there? You don’t go up. What if they say no, I really don’t want that. I’m pretty sure I’ve lost—I don’t wanna say lost. I didn’t help a lot of people early on before I started offering personal training when I had a really small gym. I know that a lot of people would have liked to get involved with CrossFit or a type of training, but not in a group setting. They wanted to get involved in doing these type of workouts, but they wanted to do it in a one-on-one setting. And you know, years ago, unfortunately we weren’t offering personal training. So it was just like hey, if you can’t do it in the group, I don’t know what to tell you. And that’s not a way to change the community, change the town, you know, by not offering what people really need.

Greg: 37:24 – Yeah, very true. And I think too many of us, especially in the beginning, always want to help out everybody, but we don’t realize that we need to charge what we’re worth and we need to stop thinking that, hey, we can help everybody, but we need to be able to get to the point where we have the funds to be able to do that. If you want to do like a scholarship program or something like that for the people that absolutely can’t afford it. But you need the clients that can first. So in Incubation we kind of dig into sales and talking about sales and those objections and the smoke screens and all this kind of stuff. But you’ve kind of brought on this new specialist product to ongoing clients, people that are in Growth. Can you kind of dive into a little bit of what that is?

Sherman: 38:17 – So the sales that we have in Incubator, like it’s good. Like it’s an excellent starting point, right? It’s an excellent starting point. It’s going to get most gym owners a little more confidence, going to give them a little process, you know, to their systems as our Incubator does phenomenal job at. But I was just seeing a huge need. I’m still seeing a huge need of, hey, like gym owners and coaches, they need to be consistently trained on the sales process. Right? Because if it was as easy as watching a video or talking to someone for an hour and you are greatest sales, well everyone would be great at sales. And it would be easy to be like, hey guys, I recommend you go listen to Zig Ziglar’s articles on sales and you’ll be an excellent salesman. It doesn’t work like that, you know? So we saw the need there. So we just come up with—as you know, Two-Brain’s all about mentoring. Yes, we’re going to train them, we’re going to mentor these owners and these coaches, hey, this is how you get great at sales. You know, and they can do that on a monthly basis now. And what I’ve seen with just about all of the clients that we’ve been working with, there’s been huge increases in revenue with small changes here and there. And as you know, Greg, we’re just getting started. So sort of my vision is two years from now, every gym will be absolutely crushing sales because that is what’s been holding us gyms, micro-gyms, a lot of businesses as well, that’s what’s been holding them back for so long is the sales process. Now obviously, I’m biased towards Two-Brain, we have absolutely crushed the business side of it. You know, our man Chris Cooper has created this incubator that is next to none. It takes your business from being whatever it is to a well-oiled machine, right? And then we added marketing last year, which has been a game changer for me personally. Make thousands of dollars off of that marketing every single month. It is a killer product, but we know that, you know, people need sales training and they need it ongoing, so we just basically tried to fill that need and we’ve been implementing changes and helping people and these coaches and these owners have been blown away by how even, you know, some of these guys after talking to me about one or two hours have increased their revenue. You know, like we had someone last month that spent, I want to say they about $700 on marketing and then their sales, that’s what we had been working on, they were signing up people for personal-training packages, personal training plus nutrition packages, group fitness plus nutrition packages. Their average revenue per member went from, you know, about 150, to about 450, you know, in one month for the new people coming in. And that’s all about process. That’s all about really having the client’s best interest in mind and trying to help them with sales. So I’m just really trying to fill that gap and help us as a community at large get better. Because let’s think about a scenario here. We’ve all done it in the micro-gym community. Someone comes to us, great. Tell me what happened? And I want to say the Greg now, because you’re pretty good at this gym life stuff, let’s say four years ago, Greg. Four years ago someone comes to your gym, Greg, they come in for a bring-a-friend day. Tell me what happens when they leave your gym.

Greg: 42:10 – Back then I said, thanks, hope you had a good time and let us know if we can help you with anything. And I just let them go.

Sherman: 42:20 – Perfect. That is still what’s going on today for the most part. We may have gotten a little bit better. Maybe we’ll put them in a funnel or they get some emails from us like maybe, but that’s still what’s going on. Now let’s look at the other side of the coin. Let’s look at these franchise gyms with or these big box gyms. What happens when you go to a free, you know, you get a free week from them. Yes, they’re gonna give you a free week, but these guys are calling you. These guys are emailing you consistently until they can get you in. If you go try a free Orange Theory fitness class, like, yes, that class is free, but they just basically bought your contact info and anyone will tell you, they will call you every single day for months and months and months until they get you back in. Or you tell them no. Either one is fine from a sales standpoint, you don’t want maybe, you know, you want people to tell you, yes, I want it, or no, I don’t. You don’t want the maybes. The maybes will drive you crazy. But that’s where I want us as a community to be because, you know, I know that—and I like to use this scenario. Let’s say you have a member, great member, and she’s recommended her friend to come to you, one of her coworkers. So her coworker, she comes to you, she comes to Bring a Friend Day. Even today, she comes to your Bring a Friend Day. She loves it. You know, she wants to go home and think about it. You know, you don’t have much time to talk to her on Bring a Friend Day, it’s usually crazy. So you try to contact her a time or two. She’s like, oh, I don’t know. You know, let me think about it. I’ll get back to you. But then a week later, she goes to Orange Theory. She drops in to Orange Theory, they’re going to follow up with her every day until she gets back. Right? She’s not going to hear from you again, except maybe, you know, maybe a phone call, one more, maybe an email once a month when you send out a monthly newsletter. But that’s not really sales, right? Like it takes about seven to 10 exposures to a business for people to really consider doing business with you. So if they’re coming in and doing a workout and then you call them two times and say oh they’re just not interested, you’re doing yourself a huge disservice man. So I’m trying to build that gap for the micro-gym community. We are trying to fill that gap. And I think there’s huge opportunity here for us to help a ton of people, you know, while also making our businesses better. You know?

Greg: 44:48 – Agreed. And this is for, now, people are doing this specialty call with you is if they’re a Growth client. And that doesn’t mean they have to use their only one call. They can actually get two calls a month where they work with their mentor on top of working on sales and some of the other specialties we have coming in, correct?

Sherman: 45:05 – Correct. Ideally, you know, we would like for them to do two calls so they can stay on track with their mentor. If they’re doing a call with me, they would do a sales call. That would be ideal. However we understand, you know, some people just say, hey, I want to use my Growth call this month. And that’s fine as well. But yes, like the specialist calls the, you know, when you want that extra help, it’s not a free call. You know, I love to help people, but I don’t want to talk to everyone for free. So, but yeah, they can do that. They have two options when it comes to that.

Greg: 45:42 – Awesome. Now if somebody is interested in getting ahold of you, they want to work on their sales, what’s the best way to reach out to you?

Sherman: 45:52 – Simple. or they can find me online. I prefer email; keeps it a little bit more professional. I get a ton of Facebook messages and all that stuff, but you email me, I’ll get back to you within 24 hours except on the weekend and we’ll be able to get rocking and rolling and increase, you know, those sales skills and processes and everything like that.

Greg: 46:13 – Excellent. Awesome. Well, Sherman, thanks again for jumping on to Two-Brain Radio, sharing your sales process, and enlightening everyone. Hopefully somebody got at least something out of this so that they can turn around and build out their sales process to be more fortified and be able to handle objections and make the sales to help people.

Sherman: 46:34 – I hope so too.

Greg: 46:35 – Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. Make sure to subscribe to receive the most up-to-date episodes wherever you get your podcasts from. To find out how we can help create your Perfect Day, book a free call with a mentor at


Greg Strauch will be here every Thursday with the Two-Brain Radio Podcast.

Two-Brain Marketing episodes come out Mondays, and host Mateo Lopez focuses on sales and digital marketing. 

On Wednesdays, Sean Woodland tells the best stories in the CrossFit community on Two-Brain Radio With Sean Woodland.

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