“Your Gym Sucks”: How to Deal With Comments on Facebook Ads

“Your Gym Sucks”: How to Deal With Comments on Facebook Ads

Mike (00:02):

Oh, this is a great comment. “Love your vibe. Another good one. “This gym is fire.” I agree. Oh, another good one. “I can’t wait to get her done at your gym.” Ah, this is. Wait a second. “Hey loser. Your gym sucks. You suck. This ad sucks and your program sucks. I hate you and hate your logo.” Mateo, you see this comment on my ad? This is open hostility.

Mateo (00:26):

That’s pretty brutal there.

Mike (00:29):

I’m going to respond. I think I’m just gonna do something super defensive and obscenely passive aggressive. What do you think? Just go with it?

Mateo (00:37):

Well, as satisfying as that may be, I don’t know that that is the best course of action.

Mike (00:45):

All right, I’ll just delete this jerk store comment I was going to write. OK. All right. OK. Let’s talk about it. I don’t know what I’m doing. In this edition of Two-Brain Radio, we’ll go over dealing with comments left on Facebook ads. Should you delete them? Should you respond? What should you do? We’ll be back with marketing expert, Mateo Lopez right after this. Want to add $5,000 in monthly revenue to your gym? You can. If you want to know how, you can talk to a certified Two-Brain Business mentor for free. Book a call at twobrainbusiness.com today. And we are back.

Mike (01:17):

I am still bummed about this brutally hostile comment on my ads. So we’re going to talk about how to deal with it. Mateo, you’ve run a lot of ads. Have you seen some just vicious trolls coming out from under the bridge to rip into your ads?

Mateo (01:30):

I actually haven’t seen anything too vicious, but I have definitely seen like—personally, but with clients in other parts of the world and parts of the country, I’ve definitely seen my fair share of some weird comments.

Mike (01:45):

What kind of stuff have you seen? Was it as bad as the one that I just got?

Mateo (01:50):

Sometimes, you know, thinking this is like some kind of scam or I’ve seen someone just like hate on the image, especially if I use one of the stock images. I’ve definitely seen people just like hate on like, I hate this branding. I hate this image. I hate this like headline. Like this is so slimy or whatever. Like I’ve seen that before. Some people just like don’t like the—like you’re saying attention Hoboken locals. You ready to get fit? Like some people just hate that.

Mike (02:27):

What’s there to hate there? I don’t get it.

Mateo (02:31):

I don’t either. But you know—.

Mike (02:34):

Trolls gotta troll.

Mateo (02:35):

People online are strange these days. People are very strange these days.

Mike (02:39):

Yeah, I’ve seen some nasty ones. Again, personally, I haven’t had a whole lot of bad ones on stuff that I’ve done, but I haven’t done a ton of advertising. I have seen some other ones, and sometimes on Two-Brain Business we’ll get some people coming out and grinding axes and so forth. And then you’ll often see just on, you know, just on Facebook pages, you’ll see sometimes people roll in, not even on ads, just rolling in and dropping, you know, nasty stuff all over the place. So we’ll ask you this question. When you get cranky people on your ads and they leave comments, should you engage them? What do you think?

Mateo (03:12):

Honestly, I think it’s dealer’s choice on that one. The one I’ll see the most, what’s the price, what’s the price? What’s the price?

Mike (03:19):

Let’s get to that one in a bit.

Mateo (03:21):

And so if it’s something like that where it’s not openly hostile, you know, it’s just a question. If it’s a question, yeah, go ahead and try and do your best to answer it. You know that that’s an opportunity for you to start a dialogue with someone. So yeah, if it’s a question, feel free to start engaging and getting them to either start a DM with you or to book an intro with you, direct them to your scheduling link.

Mike (03:48):

I’ll ask you a quick question right about that. So would it be better to respond to that question in the thread and try and share with the world or would you recommend that people kind of, you know, hit like and go to DM? What’s better?

Mateo (04:01):

Yeah, it kind of depends on the question. If it’s something that you think people would benefit from knowing the answer to, like, this program is for everyone. Don’t worry, you don’t have to be in shape to start, click here to book your intro. That’s something that you can post publicly in response to someone asking you, Hey, this looks intimidating, a little scary. Or, Hey, should we do it? I’m scared. I’m nervous. Yeah. So that’s obviously a response that wouldn’t hurt for everyone to see. But yeah, something on pricing, that’s something like, yep, our programs are, you know, tailor-made for every person. They’re fully customizable, the best way to understand what’s gonna be the right package for you or right fit for you or right program for you, let’s take this offline. You know what I mean? But then in terms of the negative ones, you know, I’ve never really found a way in which you can turn that one around into your favor. I’d rather just not engage. Do not engage, do not engage.

Mike (05:01):

Yeah, it generally, and I’ve dealt with this more with nasty comments on blogs or things like that or articles that I’ve published in this or other jobs. There is rarely a way to engage people on the internet that doesn’t devolve into some sort of like, you know, mudslinging or passive aggressive or you know, whatever it is, it’s usually a bad deal. But at times there is a place for that. And I have waded into a few discussions and just said, like, you know, that is flat-out wrong when a guy has, you know, stepped out of line and is doing disservice to the readers. But in general, and that’s in an editorial context, in an advertising context, it’s even more different because you’re not looking to spark the best debate in the history of the internet in your ad, right?

Mateo (05:40):

Yeah, exactly. No, you’re not. You want people to take an action. Anything else is a distraction from that action. For some of the articles this happened last week in the CrossFit affiliate owners group, someone put this article about snatches or some post about snatches and it just fueled this a hundred-comment-long debate, which was the point. I think the point was to generate some engagement around this company’s, you know, brand or whatever. They were trying to get people to talk about this issue or whatever. But yeah, the place for that is not on your ad, not on your direct response ad.

Mike (06:17):

Along those lines, did you happen to see the Morning Chalk-Up the other week where there was that keto post? It was an op ed.

Mateo (06:26):

No, I did not.

Mateo (06:26):

Oh man, it got lit, my wife was telling me about it and I guess they put something up as an opinion editorial piece and the comments were savage and there were like some decent players in there, like a Layne Norton showed up and Patrick Vellner was in there and there was a bunch of people and it got heated to the point where they, I think they shut the comments down for a period just to cool people off.

Mateo (06:44):

What was the headline?

Mike (06:46):

I don’t remember, but I think someone was saying that the keto diet, you need to do it if you’re doing CrossFit. And there were people saying that this is irresponsible advice and all this other stuff. And again, I haven’t read the article so I can’t comment on it, but I know that there was a massive debate and again, on an opinion editorial piece, that’s where debate works and this one got out of control.

Mateo (07:05):

I think that was 100% on purpose. If I were to guess, that is 100%, that was very much probably, you know, they knew, I would be willing to bet they knew that saying something like that was going to be divisive and cause some outrage. And that’s the point with something like that. I mean, that’s how people sell newspapers. That’s exactly, you’re selling outrage one side or the other, or it’s keto is bad. Change my mind. You know, like that’s entirely the point of saying something like that.

Mike (07:41):

I wrote an op ed calling for about five years in a print paper a long time ago, and you literally some days will just pick an issue and take a side and write. And you’re trying to stir things up, but exactly what you said, getting that going in your ad when all you want people to do is click through and give you their contact info and book an appointment, getting people scrolling through these horrible comments and trolls is not going to do anything. So that is your first lesson here from this podcast is don’t start an angry debate in the comments of your ads.

Mateo (08:08):


Mike (08:08):

Let’s move on to the one the one you spoke about before, cause this is the huge one. And I had this happen on an ad that I put up. It’s the price stuff. We were offering a program, a six-week challenge, but the idea is that it’s customized to you. All our stuff said it’s customized to you. We find out all about you and it’s the stuff that you’ve written, Mateo, and we’re just trying to figure out what you need. We’re going to assign a challenge to you. And I got price, price, price, price, price questions and they spiraled. And as soon as there was like five or six, I think it turned into like 30 or 40. And all of a sudden that’s all anyone wanted to know. No clicking, no appointments booked, nothing. Have you seen that before? Yeah. So what do you do? What’s the way out of that?

Mateo (08:54):

So, you could go line by line and reply to each one and basically give your same canned to answer, which is this program has different levels depending on your needs. The best way to find out which program is going to be the right fit for you, book your No-Sweat Intro to find out, or you know, something along those lines, right? You could ahead and do that. Now there’s another option. And this might also help when you’re dealing with nasty comments and things like that. You can set up, at least at the time of this, recording, you can, I don’t know, people are gonna listen to this 10 years from now, this will still be the case. You can set up some moderation, I guess settings for your pages and that carries over into your ads.

Mateo (09:56):

So if you go into your business’ Facebook page, your business page in Facebook, you can actually go into settings and then you can scroll down. There’s something called page moderation. And then from there you can actually select words or phrases that you want to block. So that comments that contain these words, if someone replies to your page posts, for example, and they comment, if their comment contains one of these words, that comment will be blocked or need to be reviewed by you, right? So then you can put in words like price or scam, or this is bullshit.

Mike (10:39):

Or even designer sunglasses or Viagra or all the other stuff that shows up on my blog.

Mateo (10:45):

Exactly. There’s also a profanity filter as well. That’s a separate setting, but it’s right underneath where it says page moderation. So this will apply if someone comments on a post or makes a comment on your business page. But if you have these filters set up and you’re running ads on behalf of your business’ Facebook page, which in most cases, if you’re running ads, most of you out there are doing, those features will carry over. So if someone makes a comment, and they say one of your trigger words, there’ll be a blocked.

Mike (11:18):

And so you said they’re held for moderation. Like can you decide to let them go or how does that work?

Mateo (11:26):

I know they’re blocked. I have to see if you can actually moderate them, I know that they get blocked. I think you still get a notification. But I have to fact check that, don’t do a fake news on me, I have to fact check it. But I’m pretty confident you get a notification that Hey, someone commented on your ad, but I gotta double check that for you.

Mike (11:52):

So when you, and you can do this, like you can go through it without that filter. You can still go in and you can hide comments, correct?

Mateo (11:57):

Yeah, you could still go in one by one and do it. But if you don’t want anyone mentioning the word price or you know free, asking if it’s free, for example, you can block those two words and then that way no one will ever see those comments or think to ask it themselves, hopefully. Or maybe they will, but then they’ll get blocked.

Mike (12:21):

We will circle back in just a minute. First, this podcast is all about actionable steps and we always want to give you stuff to do. That is the Two-Brain Business way. Chris Cooper has created the new roadmap to wealth. It is an incredible app and it will literally tell you step by step how to create an amazing business. The best part, it is all based on data, the things the top gyms in the world are doing. There’s no guesswork. Just action and results. For more info about how a certified mentor can help you improve your business, visit twobrainbusiness.com to book a free call. Now, more actionable marketing stuff. So we’re talking about comments. And my question for you here is are there any issues, does Facebook look down upon thy ad if you block or delete or hide comments, what happens?

Mateo (13:07):

Yeah, I think that, you know, most of the business owners that we work with, they’re running ad campaigns and their spend is relatively small compared to the big players in the space. So, you know, I don’t think you’re generating enough traffic where you’re going to see a huge impact here. But yes, you know, Facebook wants to prioritize content, whether it’s a post or a paid post or ad. They want to prioritize the content that’s engaging, that people are looking at and sharing and following and commenting on. And so one of the metrics they use to judge engagement is comments, right? So if your ads aren’t receiving any comments whatsoever, they might rank a little lower. They might get a lower relevancy score. They might not get shown to the people in your audience as much as they would if the content was proved to be engaging by the Facebook gods.

Mateo (14:07):

So there is a little bit of a downside there. However, you know, I think you just have to weigh out the pros and cons. I think it’s beneficial to not have a bunch of bad comments cause that’s the flip side, right? You allow all the comments. Yeah, Facebook’s gonna see that people are engaging with your ad, but it’s in a negative way, right? If it’s a bunch of like a price or scammy or troll comments. So there’s a give and take.

Mike (14:35):

Yeah. The strategy that I use was exactly that where when I noticed that a number of price comments were triggering just a whole bunch more, I hid them and I messaged each of the people back directly and just gave them the pitch. And then I just put up a comment myself, just saying, here are answers to some common questions that people are answering. Or asking, pardon me. And I put up, you know, the same pitch that I was sending people by DM and that seemed to take care of a lot of it. And then what I was getting after that was legitimate comments about like, you know, when can I start or you know, do you still have spaces left or you know, I love that picture, whatever it was and that stuff, then I would obviously respond and that seemed to do the trick where I got rid of the nasty stuff and I was still generating some engagement.

Mateo (15:19):

Oh, now I’m learning from you, Mike, that’s a pretty good tip there. That’s a hot take there.

Mike (15:21):

Ah, I took all this, this all comes from your program, the Two-Brain Marketing stuff. And it was your ad copy as well. So that’s the stuff that was working, but I did get people, you know, once you see the price crew comes in and I’ll tell you this, I don’t think even one single time that I have messaged someone on price and I’ve tried like 10 or 12 or 15 different like schticks, not one has ever booked an appointment.

Mateo (15:47):

Oh yeah, no, I can speak anecdotally. I think that’s probably pretty true for me too. Yeah. If someone’s opening with that line, they’re probably not going to be—

Mike (16:03):

I tried, you know, it’s a premium service and it’s a 12 or $1,500 package. I’ve tried, we have things to suit all budgets. I’ve tried like our lowest offering, which is, you know, I think it’s about a hundred bucks up to, you know, it ranges from here to here. Literally nothing works. And the question that I ask is like, what do they actually want to hear? And I think what they want to hear is free.

Mateo (16:25):

Yeah. Yeah. Or if someone had a set price in mind that they knew they wanted to spend, then you just miraculously guess that.

Mike (16:35):


Mateo (16:35):

Exactly. Exactly. What you just said though, putting your comment as the top comment and in that comment a little mini FAQ there, I think that’s awesome.

Mike (16:52):

It seemed to help and that’s certainly, it’s like when I did that, it stopped the string of price comments and we started getting more appointments. So it seemed to work in this instance. And if you guys try it out and it works, leave us a comment and let us know. And I saw this in our private, marketing group, a question about, asking about comments popping up and so forth. And so I’ll ask this to you and you can answer it publicly. If you get a bunch of comments on an ad, should you try running, you know, copying that ad, running it again without the comments to see if it does better?

Mateo (17:29):

Yeah. 100%. You can just shut her down and try it again. And once you relaunch it, as long as you’re not, depending on the way you duplicate it, you can launch that ad on clean slate. So you definitely try that out for sure. You know, the way Facebook, it changes, but at one point, Facebook, the way they kind of presented your ad was, you know, you have your audience of a hundred people. It would, let’s just say for this example, it’s going to show it to that, you know, that, 20 in the corner over here and they’re going to laser focus in on that group. So if you were to restart it might choose a different pocket of that hundred, a different 20 or whatever it is, to show your ad to, so you might have better results showing it to a different cohort in your big audience if you have a large audience. So that could definitely work.

Mike (18:36):

So it’d be something to try, but again, it’s not foolproof, but if you’re out there and you figure that like the comments on my ad are the thing that’s preventing my ad from succeeding, you might just consider duplicating that thing and starting fresh.

Mateo (18:51):

Yeah. I mean, I rarely look at them. I rarely look at the comments. So, I don’t think that would be the make or break. Unless the first one was like, anyone who sees this do not click on it. It’s a scam. You might have to deal with that comment. But besides that, yeah, I wouldn’t stress out too much. Focus on your offer, focus on your copy, your image, focus on your lead nurture. Don’t stress about the comments.

Mike (19:26):

Haters gonna hate, trolls gonna troll. The last one I’ll ask is something we kind of talked about already, you said that engagement on an ad or any Facebook thing is a good thing. Does Facebook like it when you respond and interact with these people or do they just care that you got a comment from an organic person?

Mateo (19:45):

I don’t have a definitive answer for that, but yeah, if there’s a back and forth going on, I think that, yeah, if there’s some, any kind of engagement’s going to be going to be good. Having said that, if no one’s commenting and all the comments are just from you, I don’t think that’s good.

Mike (20:05):

It’s just talking to yourself and no one’s listening,

Mateo (20:08):

I don’t think that’s going to help. That being said, if you can generate replies right from people and they’re generally positive, right? That’s a good thing, right? If you’re getting the conversation going, people coming back for more, you’re gonna rank a little bit higher.

Mike (20:24):

And it still is a way to potentially, I mean, what we’re trying to do is start conversations. So if you can potentially start a conversation in a comment, continue in a DM and then finish it off in a sales meeting at your business, maybe that’s a win. So, the first thing that will tell you is do not, you know, fight the trolls. It is not the time to pull out your battle ax and slay a troll in the comment section of your ad. Do not do that. But comments are a good thing in general, unless they’re bad and if they are a bad thing, you can start looking at hiding. And you can also start using some of the filters that Facebook offers, with the caution on that is that if you hide every single comment on there, you’re killing your engagement. And Facebook may not be totally thrilled with that. So go case by case. Pretty accurate summary of what you advice you’ve got?

Mateo (21:12):

Couldn’t have said it better myself, Mike.

Mike (21:12):

There you go. Thank you for listening. I’m Mike Warkentin with Mateo Lopez and this is Two-Brain Radio. Please remember to subscribe for more great shows. If you’re a gym owner and need some help growing your business, Two-Brain mentors can show you the exact steps to add $5,000 in monthly recurring revenue. Book a free cal on TwoBrainbusiness.com to find out more. Thanks for listening guys.


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Clarity: The Two-Brain Roadmap and Mentorship

Clarity: The Two-Brain Roadmap and Mentorship

Chris (00:02):

I’m Chris Cooper and this week I’ve been talking about getting clarity in your business. Because it doesn’t matter who reads the most books. That’s not the contest. The contest is who can build a sustainable gym that pays you really well, and the winner is the owner who can focus, who can take one step at a time toward the finish line and who can do that every single day. Now I know you can run really fast. I know you can carry a big load. I know you can travel a long distance. That’s not the problem. The problem is that maybe you’re not going in the right direction or in any direction. You’re going in every direction really fast, all in, full power, and you’re not moving forward. Today I’m going to tell you how to get focus, how to follow a path without distraction and move fast in the right direction. Welcome to Two-Brain Radio. I’m your host Chris Cooper here every week with the best of the fitness industry. Got a sec? We would love to hear from you. I write emails to my mailing list every day and it’s a highlight when somebody takes the time to respond. If you’ve got feedback on my show or a guest you’d like to hear on Two-Brain Radio, email podcast@twobrainbusiness.com and don’t forget to subscribe to Two-Brain Radio wherever you get your podcasts. You need two things: a compass and a map. Well, really a third thing, but I’ll get to that. Your compass is your personal mission and vision. It’s really important to write these down because you won’t be the only person on the journey. You need other people to know which direction you’re headed, because eventually they’re going to take the wheel. You might even be on a solo journey right now in your entrepreneurial journey, but if you own a business, you’ll eventually have some passengers and you can let them do the driving sometimes if you give them a compass. If they know where North is, your staff can head North with you, but if you want to go someplace specific, you need more.

Chris (02:03):

You need a map. And if you want to go fast, you need a guide. Until now, there’s never been a map for business. There have been descriptions about journeys. There have been lots of books about how to use a compass. Many explorers have described the monsters they’ve encountered. Some have even described parts of their route, but no one has ever built a map, until now. It took the eye of fitness coaches to map the entrepreneur’s journey to success. Here’s how we did it. So first we defined success using the freedom of income and time, more money than you need, and all the time in the world, total freedom. We call that wealth. Then we worked backwards from wealth to determine the steps the best gyms in the world have taken to get there. We used our massive dataset. No one else in the world has this, and the hands-on experience gained from thousands upon thousands of one-on-one calls with gym owners.


Chris (03:02):

So every gym owner in Two-Brain now gets the Two-Brain roadmap. You can see a picture of it above. Here’s the idea: Imagine in your mind a great big white wall. Divide that wall up into a big grid. The rows in that grid each represent one area of your business. There are 40 of them. The columns in that grid represent one milestone in each area. There are 13 milestones on each row. You can see an example of that grid if you click on the link to view the blog post that accompanies this podcast. But here’s an example. If you consider digital marketing as one area of your business or one row on that big grid that makes up the roadmap, then we’ve established 13 milestones along the path to digital marketing excellence. The first milestone: practice doing No-Sweat Intros 50 times because you have to get good at a No-Sweat Intro before you start inviting more people to a No-Sweat Intro.

Chris (04:01):

The second milestone: Test your ad funnel with our process, and we’ll teach you exactly how to build an ad funnel, what to look for to make sure that it’s working before you start dumping money into it. The third milestone is to complete our Facebook marketing incubator and calculate your target acquisition costs and target lead cost. So to finish this third milestone, you go through our Facebook marketing course that tells you how to build ads and how to build audiences and how to attract an audience and how to retarget and everything that you need. The fourth milestone is just to launch your first ad, because knowledge without action is useless. The fifth milestone is to maintain a close rate of 60% for two consecutive months. That means that 60% of the people coming into your doors from your digital marketing spend sign up for your program.

Chris (04:52):

Now, if you’re just used to organic marketing, friends of friends, strangers who you meet on the street coming in and doing a No-Sweat Intro, a 60% sign-up rate sounds pretty low. But in digital marketing, that’s actually a pretty high sign-up rate. And in the beginning when you’re mostly working off an audience of of warm clients, 60% is doable. Now in a different role on the roadmap where we’re talking about organic marketing and affinity marketing. 60% isn’t high enough, but in the digital marketing row it is. The sixth milestone in that row is to track your ROAS, which is return on ad spend for two months because we want you to always be aware of what you’re spending to get a client in comparison to what that client is spending in front-end revenue. The important thing to know here isn’t what the specifics are.

Chris (05:43):

Maybe you’re grabbing a pen and that’s OK. You can rewind. The important thing to know is that each step on the map builds on the step before. As you level up from milestone a milestone, you get closer to wealth. You also move through three or four big giant phases on the map. The founder phase, the farmer phase, the tinker phase and the thief phase. You need different mentorship at each stage, but I wrote a whole book about that so I won’t dig into it here. There are literally over 40 areas of your business that you have to master. It’s a lot, no surprise, but the key is to have a guide. Your mentor is your guide and your mentor helps you identify your greatest burning fires and your greatest opportunities. Then they make sure that you have step by step instructions to move forward and they hold you accountable for doing the work.

Chris (06:34):

Then you work on the next opportunities and steps when you’re done. It took me almost well over 10 years to take my gym from a level one to a level 10 in most of these cases. But we’re now seeing gyms travel through the entire roadmap and around 2.5 years. That means they’re getting from start-up to owner wealth in two and a half years. A lot of us never got there and a lot of us took well over a decade and a lot of us still aren’t there. But these new guys, it means their gyms are growing four times faster than mine ever did. And it’s not because of the new secrets of Facebook marketing. It’s because of clarity. They don’t have distraction. They’re moving forward in a straight line. So all this talk is about a tool that we use in Two-Brain, but if you’re not in Two-Brain, how do you know what to do next?

Chris (07:22):

Here’s my advice on filtering ideas and getting some sense of direction. If you’re out there in the wild all alone, we’re going to talk about ideas, tactics, seminars, mentorship books. You know, how to get focus no matter what you’re doing. So I said that a mentor helps you build a plan and stick to it. Entrepreneurship is cool now. Guys like Gary Vaynerchuk and Elon Musk make the dream accessible to the common person. That means there’s more information, more help, more ideas than ever before. Every single day an entrepreneur can choose between a thousand new podcast episodes, including this one. Thank you. 2000 blog posts or hundreds of new videos on YouTube. Access to information is no longer the problem. Everyone has enough good ideas. The new problem is overwhelm. We fail to take action because we’re paralyzed by having too many opportunities. We don’t see how each idea or tactic or habit fits into a larger plan.

Chris (08:22):

So we take a shotgun approach to improving our business and we don’t have filters for the sources of our information. So we trust that everything on the internet is true even when we know it’s not. Because we want to believe. A mentor’s role is to help you sort ideas—your own ideas or the great ones that you find elsewhere—and build them into your plan. Then a mentor’s role is to help you stick to your plan or shift it to match your strengths if it’s not working. if you’re trying to build a plan without a mentor, this might help. Below is a hierarchy of business knowledge. So if you imagine a big triangle, these things are at the bottom. These are the lowest value use of your time and attention.

A colourful diagram showing how a mentor filters ideas from a number of sources.

Chris (09:09):

This might surprise you. First is motivational memes on the internet. You know, like, I need to tie my hair in a ponytail and you know, just get at it, be the boss, need to put on my big-girl panties and just go. You know, there’s also rants, and sometimes there’s like vision posts, right? These have low value, they have very high potential of overwhelm. But a lot of entrepreneurs just eat them up like they’re not a waste of time. We all love motivational memes about business, but unless they clearly say, do this one thing right now, they’re useless. And even if they do say, take this specific action, you should invest your time in something more valuable if there isn’t a clear path to increased revenue from like a Facebook rant or a Facebook post or a meme, you know, and while I’m on this topic, like a lot of entrepreneurs post rants on Twitter or Facebook or wherever else, don’t read them, they’re just texturbation.

Chris (10:08):

The next layer is you’re moving up the hierarchy of knowledge and tactics and strategies, ideas, tips, tactics, and podcast episodes. This layer has value, but it also carries a huge potential for overwhelm. I mean at Two-Brain alone, we publish every single day. Every single blog post, podcast episode and video carries an actionable idea. Every idea has been tested and proven to work with mounds of data, but nobody can implement them all. A mentor’s job is to help you identify where you’re strong and keep you focused on those tactics. A mentor who simply throws ideas at you isn’t helping and they’re probably slowing you down. The next layer of value moving up the pyramid, this is the next layer of value for your time and attention is peer support. So online groups, masterminds, chambers of commerce and business mixers all have value. The best groups are curated for quality people and moderated for quality discussion, but it’s almost impossible to tell the difference between opinion and advice and it’s definitely impossible to spot outright lies.

Chris (11:14):

Nobody posts pictures of their burned dinner on Facebook and nobody shares business failings either. We actually tell our Incubator clients to take a short Facebook fast and only invite them to our private Facebook group and growth phase where peer support becomes more important. Any entrepreneurs group online or in person is only as good as its filters. If you want to have a laugh sometime, go in a gym owners Facebook group and look at the posts from some of the people who you know, put themselves out as experts, then go on LinkedIn and look at that person’s profile. I’m not saying this happens all the time, but often you’ll see somebody posing as an expert on the gym business on Facebook and seeking a job on LinkedIn or saying, I’m trying to sell my gym. It’s funny. But more valuable than pure support is actual education.

Chris (12:02):

So presumably lectures and books and seminars are created by people who have actually been successful and are willing to share their tactics. So this next layer up the pyramid is more valuable than pure support because of the higher-level filters. There are editors and publishers and stages like TED talks. So presumably someone who knows something is filtering out the bad ideas and the noise. It’s not just a catch-all anymore. But many good business books would make a great blog post because there’s not much good information past the first chapter and the filters to publish a book are lower than ever. Trust me on that. My advice is to read or watch until the expert becomes repetitive and then move on. Even in a one-way educational monologue like a book or a podcast episode, you still have the choice to close the book or leave the auditorium.

Chris (12:49):

You can even hit stop on this podcast right now. The next layer of the pyramid is a two-way education, a dialogue. These are courses, seminars and workshops in which the host help the attendees apply the content to their specific challenges. Now, I no longer run two-day seminars where I get up and lecture, because they don’t help. When Two-Brain started just over four years ago, I was traveling around a lot and doing these seminars. The problem was that people were replacing the value of the seminar in their brain with like a cheaper version of mentorship and they’re not even in the same ballpark. So now we run action-based summits where a speaker introduces a topic and then attendees apply it to their business on the spot. And we only do that once a year. If you’re attending a summit or a seminar, one of the best tactics I learned last year was to leave a seminar as soon as you learn one good thing and then spend the rest of the weekend in your hotel room working on that thing.

Chris (13:48):

So you know, book the hotel room for three nights and then go to the seminar. Take one piece of paper. When you hear one good actionable idea, write it on the piece of paper. Go to your hotel room and take action on it right away. That’s far more valuable than amassing ideas and taking action on none, but very few people do it. Now I’m sharing this process knowing that it might sound like I’m saying you need to get a mentor, and I am. Every successful person in business, in sport, in anything has a professional coach. You need someone to break down your journey, starting from your goal and working backward, who has an objective eye and they’re not looking at things through the lens of your history. Fitness coaches are really good at this process, but business owners sometimes forget how to do it and the overwhelming number of business books, ideas, podcasts, and videos makes the path to wealth unclear.

Chris (14:40):

If you’re a fitness coach, you’re good at filtering out pseudoscience and crazy workout ideas and giving your clients are really clear path. I’m a business mentor, and I’m good at filtering out bad and overwhelm to give my clients a clear path. It’s taken us years and tens of thousands of one-on-one phone calls with entrepreneurs to do it, but we’ve mapped the path to wealth now, real wealth, and that’s the Two-Brain roadmap. We provide mentorship through the entire roadmap. So you remember that I said there are four phases you’re going to have to journey through on your path to wealth. I named those four phases founder phase, farmer phase, tinker phase, and thief phase. Loosely speaking, founder phase is from $0, you know, you’re open but you haven’t made any money yet, to the point where you’re hitting break even. Your business pays for itself. Farmer phase is from break even to functional retirement.

Chris (15:34):

Functional retirement means you might still want to go to work every day, but you don’t have to. You make more than enough money and you are completely replaced in primary service delivery roles at your gym if you want to. It’s basically the point where you can go to the beach or you can go to work and you’re the one who can decide. More and more gyms are hitting this point and they’re getting there faster and faster than ever if they stay focused. The tinker phase, the third phase, is from functional retirement to financial independence. So basically this is where your money starts working for you and your money has babies and it’s creating more wealth without you doing more work, you stop trading money for time or time for money. The fourth phase is thief phase which is financial independence to legacy, and that just means that your wealth creates opportunities for other people after you’re gone, you’ve built a legacy. I wrote “Founder, Farmer, Tinker, Thief” to share those steps with everyone and break down a lot of the process, but the roadmap is a lot more granular. So now all these things together form a plan. To make an effective plan, you need some distance from your current situation. You need an objective, dispassionate eye. That’s where a mentor comes in. A mentor is there to identify what you really need and help you identify the best tactics to provide the best support and to supply the right amount of accountability. For example, many new Two-Brain clients say, I need more clients. Then they’ll cite an Instagram tactic they saw in a Facebook group somewhere, but then they’ll say, I don’t have time to do that. So the mentor guides them through the work that will get them more time first, and that’s part of the incubator.

Chris (17:13):

Then the mentor says, let’s determine how we’re going to spend your time. That’s part of building an annual plan which comes at the start of our growth phase of mentorship. If the Instagram tactic will actually generate more clients and we’ve tested it and there’s data saying that it will, then the mentor builds it into the plan. From there, the mentor’s role is to help the entrepreneur fill their time with the best plan for him or her at that moment. They use the roadmap to identify those opportunities and the gym owner moves ahead really fast. Do you see? You could try to do all the things or you could invest your time and budget wisely, doing the right things at the right time to the exclusion of all the noise and overwhelm and wrong ideas. You can spend 2020 the same way you spent 2019, making guesses, trying to do everything and feeling overwhelmed or you can get a mentor.

Chris (18:06):

This is what I realized in 2008 when I found my first mentor, and it’s why I have a mentor today. As you become more successful, the choices just get bigger. The ideas just get better and there’s more opportunities to get pulled off track. So now my tactic is always to ask myself, who has solved this problem before me? And then contact that person, pay them whatever it costs to learn from them and jump ahead instead of trying to ram my way through taking three years in $1 million to do it and risking my health. Good mentors are teachers, coaches, therapists, and trusted confidantes. Great mentors know how to fill all those roles, but the best mentors know which hat to wear and when to move you toward wealth. And the best mentors have a map to follow. Everyone on our mentoring team has been trained to be teachers, coaches, therapists, and trusted advisors.

Chris (18:59):

They all have different personalities because there’s no one size fits all when it comes to mentorship. We’re not a call center or a helpline or a group of consultants. We’re smart, caring and experienced professionals who have been where you are now and mapped the path to wealth for you. I hope it helps, because the biggest thing that stops entrepreneurs is not fear. It’s not that they lack great ideas, it’s that they don’t know where to turn for tested ideas that have been proven by data, and they don’t know which ones to do first. That’s been my mission for the last 18 months, to create a roadmap like this that spells out step by step what you have to do to become successful. And to do that, we had to start by defining what success is and then working backward. But we’ve finally done it and members of Two-Brain are raving about it. So thank you the Two-Brain family for being so excited about the roadmap. Congratulations to all of you who have earned badges and prizes and secret unlocks and all the cool stuff along the way to the gym owner out there who’s listening and they’re not sure if they want or can afford or need mentorship. I strongly encourage you to find somebody outside your business who will take an objective eye, who will charge you money so that you’ll be held accountable for it and who will actually guide you toward wealth because you deserve it.

Chris (20:23):

Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. I’m Chris Cooper and I’m here every Thursday. Every Wednesday, Sean Woodland brings you the best stories from the fitness community. Every Monday, we’ll bring you marketing tips and success stories from our clients. Please subscribe to Two-Brain Radio and share this show with any friends we can help.


Chris Cooper delivers the best of the business world on Two-Brain Radio every Thursday.

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Josh Bridges: SEAL, Athlete, Dad and Payer of the Man

Josh Bridges: SEAL, Athlete, Dad and Payer of the Man

Sean (00:00):

Hi everybody. Welcome to another edition of Two-Brain Radio with Sean Woodland. On today’s episode I speak with six-time CrossFit Games athlete Josh Bridges. Over the years I’ve covered dozens of fitness events all around the world and I’ve seen the best of the best work with coaches to find success. Yet many business owners don’t think coaches can help them. If you want to hit a revenue PR, visit Tw-Brainbusiness.com to book a free call and find out how a business coach can help you. Josh Bridges has been one of the most popular CrossFit athletes since making his debut at the Games back in 2011. He is also a former Navy SEAL and father of two young sons. We talk about his career in the military, how he found CrossFit, some of his more memorable moments competing on the tennis-stadium floor in Carson, California, and coffee. Thanks for listening everybody. Josh, how you doing man? Thanks so much for joining me.

Josh (01:01):

Thanks Sean. Thanks for having me on, brother. Appreciate it.

Sean (01:03):

Let’s go back in Josh Bridges’ life. What sports did you play growing up?

Josh (01:08):

Oh man. Everything as a kid. But like organized sports. I played baseball and then soccer, pre-high school. High school hit, I started wrestling and then baseball, did a little cross country just to stay in shape for wrestling, played rugby. Yeah, I mean, but then like, you know, like back on the streets as a kid, you know, roller hockey, basketball, football, everything.

Sean (01:41):

I know you have a pretty extensive wrestling background. What do you think it was about wrestling that hooked you?

Josh (01:47):

You know, I don’t know. I just loved it. It was a love-hate relationship. It’s a sport that is easy to not love. But it’s, you know, if you actually have a little bit of success in it and you realize like it’s just the hardest sport there is. And so, I dunno. I mean, I loved pushing myself and I loved like seeing what I was capable of doing and, you know, so wrestling is just a great sport and it builds a lot of character.

Sean (02:21):

What motivated you to join the Navy?

Josh (02:25):

In the Navy, you know what, at that point in my life, I was a loan officer and so I wasn’t really doing anything competitively. So that was, I think, a big motivation for me. I’d always had this little bit of interest as a kid wanting to like, see if I could push myself through, you know, what I thought at the time, like boot camp, oh, the toughest thing, boot camp, you know, any boot camp. And so, now after, you know, going through college sports and then getting out and not being really like, involved in anything competitively, losing that, you know, like thing that I loved the most was competing. So, you know, a buddy told me about being a Navy SEAL and what it was. I started doing some research and I was like, Oh, this sounds like cool. And it sounds like something pretty fun and something cool that I could, you know, go and try to push myself to do. And so I gave myself a year to train for it and then went in.

Sean (03:24):

What was that experience like going through BUD/S?

Josh (03:29):

Amazing. Awesome. Really fun. You know, BUD/S was, you know, it was a kick in the nuts and it was tough and it was hard, but loved every second of it. You know, enjoyed the process of it and then enjoyed once I, you know, getting through it, you know, and then realizing that Hey, OK, like the confidence you get from it, you know, being like, this is the hardest military training there is out there. And I just went through it. So, it was a lot of fun, though. I mean, you get to shoot guns, you get to run and we get to exercise. It’s tough. It’s hard, but it’s also really cool.

Sean (04:07):

How did going through wrestling prepare you at all for that experience?

Josh (04:14):

Yeah, a lot of people actually ask me, you know, about like that, like, Oh, did you get, you know, your toughness from the military or whatever. And you know, for me, I always go back to wrestling. Wrestling is where I felt like, built my mental toughness from. Wrestling is the most demanding physically and mentally sport there is out there. You can’t have a bad day; if you do have a bad day, you get your ass kicked. So it’s not like a team sport where you can hide in the, you know, in the outfield or you can hide in, you know, and just not be involved in the play where you’re always involved in wrestling. You’re always the person. It’s only you. You have no one to rely on but yourself. And you know, like wrestling is the sport where I feel the most like you can outwork your opponent, right? You might not be the most talented, but if you outwork them, there’s a possibility you can beat these guys. So, yeah, I felt like that really helped lead into to the Navy where, you know, I wanted to be the best for my teammates and you know, never wanted to let them down.

Sean (05:18):

How did that lead you to CrossFit?

Josh (05:22):

So I started CrossFit in 2005, really early January, 2005, and it was from the same guy who actually told me about the Navy and Navy SEALs. You know, interesting story. I told the story a few times, but his name was Mike and he was like, Hey, I’m going to go be a Navy SEAL. And this is how some of those guys train. It’s called CrossFit. And at the time, you know, I was really not doing anything physically. After college wrestling, I kinda like let myself go. I was like, I’m gonna take some time off and get fat and drink beer, you know, eat pizza rolls every night. So, at that point it was like, OK, let me check this out. And like immediately fell in love with it. I was like, wow, this is really fun.

Josh (06:10):

Like, it’s intense, hard workouts, just like wrestling, you can push yourself, it can actually be competitive. Which was weird, like how quickly you realize how it was competitive before it was even a sport. And so, yeah, like that was—so January, 2005, Mike was like, Hey, let’s give it a shot if you want to work out with me. Great. And I was like, OK. And I did. And fell in love with it and used it to train to put myself, you know, get prepare myself for BUD/S.

Sean (06:42):

When did you realize that you wanted to be a competitor in CrossFit?

Josh (06:47):

Pretty early. You know, actually, so I enlisted in January—in March, I’m sorry, March of 2007. And so they had already sent out like the flyer or whatever for the 2007 Games. And I was like, Oh man, they’re actually turning this into a sport that’s really cool.

Josh (07:08):

Or they’re doing a competition. And I used to post my times and scores on the main website and you know, there was like a few people that you would look and see their times to see like how comparable you were with them. And one was like James Fitzgerald, the guy who, you know, won the first CrossFit Games. And so we used to email back and forth and stuff actually, after like, you know, looking at each other’s scores and knowing we were looking at each other’s scores, it was like, oh, we started emailing and talking and you know, and he’s like, yeah, you see that they put out the flyer that they’re going to do the CrossFit Games or a competition out in California. And I was like, Oh, that’d be really fun. Needless to say, I couldn’t go to that one.

Josh (07:53):

And I enlisted in the Navy. My first few years, obviously there was no chance of me being able to compete, you know, going through BUD/S and getting into my first platoon. And, you know, as a new guy in a platoon, you’re doing all the extra work so you’re working even longer than everyone else. And so in 2011 I remember looking at the dates of everything, of the Open, the Regional and the Games. And I realized that my schedule really wasn’t—it wasn’t that bad cause I was actually at home at that point. I wasn’t on a deployment and it was a workup, but our workup schedule just allowed me to compete in 2011. And so I always wanted to compete throughout the years. I just couldn’t. And I had a different goal in mind. And so I was, you know, doing that and then asked my chief and I was like, Hey, I think I want to go try and do this CrossFit Games, you know, they put up this huge prize purse now and it’d be kind of cool if I could do it.

Josh (08:52):

He’s like, well, what’s your Fran time? He knew very little about CrossFit, but he, you know, he knew enough to ask that question and then I was like, Oh, 2:02, and he’s like, OK, you can give it a shot. So that was how I began competing.

Sean (09:11):

what were your expectations when you showed up to the Games in 2011?

Josh (09:15):

I wanted to win. I wanted to win everything. I remember my goal was to win every workout and win the CrossFit Games and, you know. I remember people always ask me like, what’s your goal? I’m like, to win everything, you know, like I set my standards really high. I thought I could do it. You know, I should have won the Open, Dan robbed me. Got 13 times and I put my score on a little too early, you know, won the Regional and I was like feeling really confident and happy and excited for the Games and when the Games showed up, I mean for me, like I don’t even remember having nerves that year. Like I was just like excited to be there, excited to do the competition and excited to be on the floor with a lot of these people that I’d watched their videos and seeing how well they’d done in the previous years past. And for me, I was just like, I know I can beat these guys. I knew I could. And so, obviously Rich, you know, had something else to say about that, but yeah, so it was fun. But my goal was to win it.

Sean (10:15):

You finished second, which was impressive. How did that result motivate you moving forward?

Josh (10:23):

It was a big motivator for me. I remember being like angry, you know, when I got second. I was sitting in the back with I think Rich and Ben and you know, being like, your medal looks so much better than mine does. And I remember like feeling really good and I continued to train and I knew I wasn’t going to be able to be at the 2012 CrossFit Games due to I was going on deployment later that year, in 11, I think I left actually in 11 before and so it was supposed to be like a longer deployment. I think it was supposed to be a nine-month deployment that time. So I knew I was not going to be able to compete in the 2012 Games, but I was still continuing to train and like everything was doing great. Numbers were going up and I felt better and you know, then I dislocated my knee in April, so that put a hold on everything.

Sean (11:19):

What was it like having to watch that competition from the sidelines knowing that you were probably the best version of yourself at that point?

Josh (11:27):

Yeah. You know, that was interesting. Well at that point when the Games had come around, I had already injured myself. So it wasn’t really that big of a deal. For me it was just like I actually got to go, I got to come down. Cause I was home obviously at that point. So I injured myself on deployment, came home, flew home, got my surgery and actually when the Games was happening, my second son was being born. And so, I want to say the day that they did the Camp Pendleton triathlon, I was in the hospital watching it online while my kid was, you know, like being born. So that was really cool. And then we had a bunch of family in town and so I got to come, I drove up to LA for a day, just for one day, but you know, got to actually see a little bit of the 2012 Games and then came home.

Josh (12:20):

So, yeah, you know, it was tough. Obviously I wanted to be out there and knowing that you know, if this injury hadn’t happened, you know, who knows what would’ve happened. But, you know, either way it is what it is. And the fact that I came back in less than a year after that, or a little over a year and took seventh in the 13 Games was super—for me, it’s one of the things that I look back on, like damn, I can’t believe I actually did that. Like, it’s a tough thing to do. And that was probably one of the things I’m more proud of.

Sean (12:52):

You had to compete in that Southern California Regional and the California Regional at one of the—it was one of the marquee Regionals in Southern California. What stands out to you about the years that you spent competing in Del Mar against that field?

Josh (13:07):

It was just really fun, you know, and I felt like every year, new guys were coming or it was getting tougher because they kept expanding our region. It was like, Oh, this region isn’t like, I dunno. It’s not tough enough. So we gotta keep making it bigger and bigger and bring more guys in. I want to say the final season, the final Regional season when it was the West, you had all of California, all of the Northwest and then half of Canada and you’re like, this is half a continent. This is insane. And so there were, I want to say it was 16 individual CrossFit Games competitors at that Regional and knowing that only five were getting to go to the CrossFit Games. It’s like, wow, 11 prior CrossFit Games individuals will not be going to the Games this year.

Josh (14:04):

So it was crazy. It was cool. Yeah. I always loved it. I loved the competition. I loved, like Del Mar is just like hands down, you know, besides the actual home Depot Center or whatever—SubHub, you know, besides that is like by far my favorite venue. I mean, it’s an amazing venue. It’s, you know, open, it’s kind of outside, kind of inside. The crowds are so big and so loud and so it was, yeah, it’s a great place to compete.

Sean (14:41):

Dan Bailey once told me that he thought that Regionals were more pressure-packed than the Games. Would you agree with that?

Josh (14:50):

I would agree with it in the sense that it was a qualifier. And so you had—and you knew there was only six events and the fact that if you made one big mistake there was probably a good shot you weren’t going to the Games. So yeah, in that aspect, yes. Personally for me, you know, like whenever I went to the CrossFit Games, I wanted to win it. And so the pressure was there anyways. You know, going through Regionals was always tough and exactly like, you know, I had the year, you know, a year where I stumbled and I didn’t qualify, 15, where you know, I didn’t deserve to be, I wasn’t fit as I should have been. So, but yeah, you know, in a way, definitely more pressure. But for me, I put so much pressure on myself anyways at the CrossFit Games it was pretty similar, you know. And so for me, the Regionals was just a stepping stone to get there, to my ultimate goal.

Sean (15:41):

We’ll let Josh Bridges take a quick break while I tell you about 500-pound deadlifts. To get a big deadlift, you need to follow all the steps in order. It’s a journey. You can’t just step up to a heavy bar every day and pull. Same deal with business. So Chris Cooper has mapped out the exact steps a gym owner must take to level up and eventually reach wealth. All these steps are based on research and data. There’s no guesswork anymore. A Two-Brain mentor can help you analyze your business, figure out where you’re at, then tell you the exact things you need to do to grow. It’s all in the new Two-Brain roadmap available to clients. To find out if working with a mentor is right for you, book a free call at twobrainbusiness.com. Now, more with Josh Bridges.

Sean (16:30):

You mentioned you make it back to the Games in 2013 after missing in 2012, finish seventh, you win three events including two in the tennis stadium. What was it about that setting that brought the best out in you?

Josh (16:44):

Yeah. I don’t know. I just loved it. I mean, it was amazing. It was at night, the under the lights. You know, hopefully I was in the final heat. You know, there was a couple of times where I wasn’t, but it didn’t even matter. You know, and I think that those, I don’t know if it was so much like where it was at or if it was the workouts that Dave program for those evenings that just really suited me or I just really enjoyed it, it was typically more organic CrossFit and more like grassroots CrossFit. And so I love those, you know, style of workouts and it was just so loud and so packed and you’re like, it was a bowl, right? And you’re like, all the eyes are on you. And it felt a lot like a wrestling match where like, it’s you against these, you know, other athletes, these Goliaths, and you know, I just wanted to prove everyone wrong that, you know, you don’t have to be this big huge guy to be fit. So, it was fun. It was like, I wish, you know, I hope one year it goes back and some these other athletes, these younger athletes get to get to feel that, you know, because it’s nothing—like Madison’s awesome in its own way, but it’s nothing like, you know, that setting.

Sean (17:58):

Yeah. That tennis stadium is something special. After your performance in 2013, how are you feeling about your chances of getting to the podium in the coming years?

Josh (18:09):

Yeah, I felt good, you know, 13, I was happy with where—you know, I wasn’t—obviously at the end of the day I was, I wasn’t happy with seventh, but looking back on it, I was. I knew that if I trained the right way, if I put in the work, I could get back to the podium. And then 14, you know, I mean going into Sunday I was only, I want to say 17 points behind first place, behind Rich. And so, and Mat was like nine points ahead—nine points back. So sitting in third, going into Sunday, I felt really good. I was like, I could win this, you know, like this is, you know, I’m in the podium position. That’s great. But obviously the ultimate goal was to win. So yeah, I felt good about it.

Josh (18:50):

Ended up losing it on the last day, didn’t have a great Sunday. Some events came up that I should have done well at that I struggled at because I didn’t put the right work in like, GHDs. Oh yeah. I didn’t really do a lot of those. And then Sunday morning it’s like, we’re going to do a lot of GHDs and then lunge, and then, yeah, the overhead squat event at the end. And the double Grace just didn’t go the way I wanted them to go. And so, you know, fell back to fourth, in 2014, but, you know, it is what it is. And that was a learning lesson for me. And, I felt like my fitness was there. I knew that I was, you know, I could taste it. I knew that it was reachable again. So that was a good feeling,

Sean (19:34):

You had, I think to me what was one of your most memorable performances in push pull that year. It’s still one of my favorite events of all time. What do you remember about what transpired on the tennis stadium or that night in that event?

Josh (19:48):

Yeah, that event was awesome. It was, I mean, people always ask me, what was one of your favorite events? And obviously that’s one of the first ones that always comes up because it was such a battle and was such a fight. You know, I remember going into that workout being like, man, that was like a lot of weight on those sleds. Like I have no idea how that’s going to go. And we didn’t get to touch it. We didn’t get to feel what it was gonna feel like. So I just remember like being down there and being like, OK, let’s just go. You know, I knew I was going to do well at the handstand push-ups. And I didn’t know how the other guys would hold up with it. So, I loved that the fact that it was strict handstand push-ups, there was no kipping yet, which was amazing.

Josh (20:28):

And so, yeah, it was great. I mean, and then I just remember on that last pull just kind of like, I didn’t come out hot. I just kinda, I wasn’t in the lead for a while. I want to say Ben was in the lead for a little bit and then maybe even Rich. And so I just remember coming off that final handstand push-up quite a bit ahead of everyone and I’m just watching and pulling and I see Rich come down. I’m like, OK, here we go. I know he’s gonna pull the sled a little bit quicker than I am. So I’m literally, I wasn’t even looking at where my sled was at I was looking and watching Rich’s the whole time and just being like, why is his moving? I just kept pulling and pulling, and I wasn’t going to let it go because of some heavy weight. So it was that—the feeling that went through my body after that, like nothing about that celebration was orchestrated. It was just like this pure rush of like adrenaline that like hit me cause I was so fired up. So, yeah, that was such a great moment.

Sean (21:35):

Yeah. It’s still one of my all-time favorite moments in the tennis stadium. You go from taking fourth and then you mentioned failing to qualify in 2015. What was going through your head at the California Regional when you realized, all right, I just took sixth and I’m not going?

Josh (21:49):

Yeah, it was, you know, it was a humbling experience. It was something I needed at the time. Looking back, I kind of I started to rely on like, oh my past accomplishments and not realizing like, Oh, I still need to put the work in. And that was the first year, 15 was the first year where they put the super Regional and, hey, go, go, go lay down, go lay down. Ah, sorry. My dog just wants to be petted. Yeah, I just need pets, man. Go, go, lay down. Go. And so I started to rely on my past accomplishments and really wasn’t putting in the work that I knew I needed to put in. And, I just remember reading an article about someone saying, you know, it was a professional, I think, I want to say it was Jeremy Shockey and I’ve read this quote where he said, you know, “I remember after losing a football game, I went home and ate dirt because I wanted to remember that taste in my mouth.”

Josh (22:49):

And, you know, I kind of had that same feeling. I was like, yeah, all right. I never want to feel like this, like I’m feeling again right now. And someone had a video, I want to say it might’ve been Sevan, of like the moment I actually like looked up at the screen and realized I was in sixth place, and I snapshotted it and I kept it in my phone and I like looked at that picture a lot so I could see like, Hey, remember that feeling right there. And so I don’t think I’ve ever trained as hard as I have—the volume, the work that I put in from 15 to 16. And so yeah, it was, you know, 16 was a fun year. Getting back to the CrossFit Games and going through that season, the Open and the Regional and you know, getting to the Games, I kind of fell short of what I really thought I was capable of doing. I don’t know what happened. But yeah,15 was a good eye-opening experience and it was a great, you know, like for me it was a great motivator.

Sean (23:44):

Yeah. You answered my next question, which was how did that affect, you know, going forward the next two years cause you smashed the Regionals of the next two years in California.

Josh (23:51):

Yeah. It felt good, you know, I mean 16, there was nothing stopping me. I was going to go through any brick wall that was there. 17 felt good, too. 17 was the year of all the dumbbells too, right? Was that the year where the region was all bells I think. Yeah. So yeah, that was fun. It was interesting year and so no, it was great. Yeah. And again, like nothing will teach you more in life than failure. Right. It was a great motivator for me.

Sean (24:23):

Are you done competing?

Josh (24:23):

Never done. Not until the wheels fall off, Sean.

Sean (24:29):

What are your plans moving forward now for competition?

Josh (24:31):

So, yeah. I had two surgeries this year. Knee surgery and elbow surgery and you know, starting to come back, starting to feel good. And so, I’m gonna, you know, make a run at trying to go to the Games again. If I could sneak in this year and get in a late Sanctional, then that’d be awesome. But if not, you know, I’ll move on to 2021.

Sean (24:57):

Let’s say you make it this year. Realistically, what would be your expectations in Madison?

Josh (25:02):

You know, right now, like I think I’m in the stage of my career where like my expectations are—I’m trying to be realistic with myself and so I’m not going to say I don’t want to win cause I do, but, you know, I’m trying to be realistic, especially coming off two surgeries and things like that. So, you know, just getting there would be a big accomplishment for me right now. But I wouldn’t want to go there just to participate. I’d go there and you know, I’d put the effort in and you know, see what happens, but I don’t think I’d have any expectations on myself to be honest.

Sean (25:34):

Your sons are getting old enough now to start to understand what you did during your CrossFit career. What do they think about you as an athlete?

Josh (25:44):

My boys are awesome. They’re great. They’re both athletes themselves. And so, you know, we have to have a lot of discussions when things don’t go the way that they want it to and things like that. And so, but they’re awesome, you know, and I don’t push them out in the gym. They don’t like train with me or anything like that. But sometimes I’ll come out there and there’ll be like their barbell out and stuff like that. I’m like, who let the barbell out? And it was like, Oh, you know, I did. And I’m like, ah, there we go. I like it. I like that, you know, like, it’s cool and it’s been a fun experience. And, they’re starting to realize, yeah, like Dad was a professional athlete.

Josh (26:21):

Oh, Dad was on TV. And my younger one will come out and actually he’ll like, you know, I’ll see him out there and I’ll kinda like come out and kind of watch him without me knowing and he’ll be doing like CrossFit-style workouts where going from like different things to different things and so it’s really cool, but they’re hard. They’re not easy on me, you know, we were at Mayhem, they were like, they were like, like I want to say we came back to Rich’s and we’re watching the video just to see how it looked of the first night, I didn’t do it. It was the dumbbell snatch one. And my oldest looks up and he goes, oh Dad, if your knee wasn’t hurting, you would be out there and you would have kicked their butts. And he goes, but in real life you’re a loser.

Sean (27:04):

Thanks son.

Josh (27:06):

I like it. Keep me on my toes. Good. I appreciate it. No, they’re awesome.

Sean (27:11):

You offer some mental prep courses on your website, Joshbridges.com. What are the main things that people need to know in order to have a strong mental game?

Josh (27:23):

Yeah, that’s tough. I like to give people just like things that I use in certain instances in life where it gets like things get tough and like where it would be easy to be like, Oh, this isn’t worth it. I’m going to give up. Right? And so, I don’t know if you can actually, like—I can’t make you be mentally tough, right? I can give you the things that I have used in my past to help people be mentally tough. And so, you know, that’s kind of what that is. It kind of gives you my story. And then the things that I’ve been taught from other people, right? Like, I mean, one of my favorite things was when an instructor looked at me and he’s like, he brought us into a classroom and we had this great mentor and who was just like lesser men than you. And you know what? The fact that he said lesser men, it didn’t even really matter. He didn’t have to say lesser men, but I think it was more of an impact on us, was lesser men than you’ve come through this programming and gotten through it. Either way you, other men have gotten gone through this program and done it.

Josh (28:26):

Why can’t you? And so for me in my life, that’s something that I’ve always used is like, if someone else could do this, why can’t I do it? And so I think that that’s helped a lot and you know, mentally being like, why do I need to give up? That guy’s not giving up. Why do I gotta quit? That guy’s not quitting. So, you know, for me that’s always been huge. And just and knowing that, and then another thing is knowing that no one can stop time. So whatever it is that you’re doing, whatever moment you’re in, no matter how bad it sucks, how bad you hurt, like it’s going to come to an end. That pain will go away. And whether you’re there or not, if you’d quit or didn’t quit, then you have to deal with those consequences right. With your decision. So, I kind of take that in stride is where it’s like no one can stop time and no one can make me quit. And so if I can use that in life, then that’s great. And so I, you know, that’s like, that’s the kind of stuff that you get on that, you know, mental prep course that I put out there.

Sean (29:32):

What does it mean for someone to be mentally tough?

Josh (29:37):

You know, that’s a great question. It can mean lot of different things. It doesn’t have to be in the physical aspect. It can be in, you know, your everyday life, right? Life’s tough. Life’s hard. It’s not easy. You know, just getting through day to day, it can be a grind sometimes. I mean, there’s a lot of things happen in life. Life’s not challenging. It’s going to knock you down no matter what it is that you’re doing. So, just being able to push when you don’t want to push or getting up and doing the things that you know you have to do, even though you maybe you don’t want to do them, I mean that’s mentally tough. So, there’s a lot of different meanings to it and each person has their own.

Sean (30:18):

How did Good Dudes Coffee come about?

Josh (30:20):

Good Dudes Coffee. Here we go. Very serious talk to let’s talk coffee. So coffee became something of a passion of mine ever since I was in the military. I needed it in the military. I didn’t drink coffee prior to, so when I had to start using it on, you know, using the caffeine to keep myself awake at night and things like that, I was like, OK. And whenever I get into something, it’s like we’re going full throttle, we’re going pro in this, I don’t care what it is, whether coffee or CrossFit or whatever, we’re going to go pro, we’re going to go all the way. And so when I got into coffee, I started looking up, you know, like, Oh, what’s the best coffee? And started ordering that. And then one time, so I’m over in Iraq and I’m in my room and I’m in my trailer. We lived really rough over there, let me tell you. I had a full trailer to myself with wifi. So, I’m ordering coffee offline and like to get shipped over there. And I hit this drop down box and I was like, OK, I can get five, 10, 15 pounds of coffee and then there was this had little print that said green next to one of them. And it was like on the cheap, it was the one of the cheaper sides of it. And I was like, OK, I’ll get that one. And it shows up and it’s unroasted coffee beans. And I was like, what the hell? I’m like, OK, what am I going to do with $150 worth of unroasted coffee beans. Obviously I’m going to buy a roaster, Sean, and I’m going to sit it over—roasting my own coffee in Iraq.

Josh (31:56):

And so that’s exactly what happened. Bought an air roaster, which is like, basically it’s like a popcorn popper that you put your coffee beans in and, you know, fell in love with the passion of coffee at that point and like, thought it was really cool and I enjoyed it. And, later on down the road, you know, like Rich, Dan and myself are in the barn at you know, at Rich Senior’s and we are just coming up with an idea to like, you know, us go do these seminars, or not seminars, but athlete camps where, you know, people get to train with us. And then we’re like, well, what else could we do with Good Dudes? And I was like, well, I’ve always wanted to open up a coffee shop or some sort of coffee, you know, whatever brand or whatever like that. And so that’s really how it started. And then it just kind of, I kind of figured out logistics of it over the past couple of years and finally launched it this year. It’s going great. And yeah, Gooddudescoffee.com. It’s amazing.

Sean (32:52):

Are there plans to possibly open an actual physical brick and mortar location?

Josh (32:58):

So we’re going to launch—so Mayhem is going to be the first actual like Good Dudes Coffee shop and so it’s going to be only Good Dudes Coffee there and it’s going to called Good Dudes Coffee. So yeah, that’s the first location. But yeah, we actually, you know, we want to get in and like, you know, get a location and have like a roaster and everything like that. So yeah, that’s all coming.

Sean (33:24):

Oh, I can’t wait. You will always be remembered not only for your ability on the floor, but also the fire and the passion that you always showed during competition. Where do you think that came from?

Josh (33:38):

I just, I don’t know, to be honest. You know, like, I mean I’ve always been a pretty outwardly emotional guy. Like, I don’t hide my emotions in anything, in any aspect of my life. When it came to wrestling, when it came to other sports, when it came to, you know, just anything. So, it’s just who I was. It was just who I am. Like I’m not, you know, I put myself out there. I don’t pretend to be anything I’m not. And so competing was just something I loved and it, you know, it gets me more fired up than competing in anything. So like, I, you know, my kids beat me in sports and so, cause I know there’s gonna be years down the road where they’re going to beat the crap out of me at a lot of stuff. And so I’m getting my W’s in right now. And it’s just, you know, that emotion just came from years of, you know, hard work and just enjoying it, you know, just enjoying it so much. Like, you know, I love sports. I love all of them. And that fire just comes from within, I don’t know.

Sean (34:45):

Final question. What are you the most proud of when you look back on your career?

Josh (34:52):

That’s a great question. There’s a lot of things I’m proud of, you know, just, the work that I’ve put in, you know, the hard work and the sac— don’t even like to comp sacrifices. I don’t feel like I was sacrificing cause I wasn’t doing anything that I didn’t want to do. Like I loved doing all of it and but yeah, you know, just going out and competing and putting in the work in and enjoying the process and trying to do it right, so I would say that’s the thing I’m most proud of, not at any single like event or anything like that. It’s just the years of sacrifice, or not sacrifice, but the hard work and you know, and so, yeah, probably that.

Sean (35:41):

Josh, I appreciate your time. Best of luck with everything with the kids, with Good Dudes Coffee. Hopefully I’ll be walking into one of those establishments soon.

Josh (35:48):

For sure. Thanks for having me on, Sean, I appreciate it.

Sean (35:49):

I want to thank Josh Bridges once more for taking the time to speak with me. If you want to follow him on Instagram, he is @bridgesj3, and his website is josh-bridges.com. This has been another episode of Two-Brain Radio. If you’re a gym owner and would like to add $5,000 a month in revenue, visit TwoBrainbusiness.com to book a free call. We’ll tell you how a mentor can help you level up fast. Thanks for listening, everybody. I’m Sean Woodland and we’ll see you next time.


On Wednesdays, Sean Woodland tells the best stories in the CrossFit community on Two-Brain Radio With Sean Woodland.

Two-Brain Radio presents marketing tips and success stories every Monday, and Chris Cooper delivers the best of the business world every Thursday.

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Sales Tips: Closing Cold Leads Who Clicked Facebook Ads

Sales Tips: Closing Cold Leads Who Clicked Facebook Ads

Mike (00:00:02):

Ooh, this is a sweet mic. Jeff, you’re saying this new microphone you’re selling, it’s going to improve sound quality, attract new listeners, make me more attractive, increase my hourly rate, slice my bread and doubles as a hammer? Is all that correct?

Jeff (00:00:14):

Yeah, I know it sounds unbelievable, but that’s correct.

Mike (00:00:17):

Well, I’m getting emotional here. Like I feel a deep visceral need to make this purchase. Not because I want to, because I need to. And I’m short on hammers, to be honest. So I’ll take a dozen. Have you got two dozen of these things?

Jeff (00:00:30):

I mean, believe it or not, but I got three.

Mike (00:00:32):

Ooh. Ah, OK. So I’m going to give you my credit card number, but I just realized that I do have to walk my Komodo dragons right now, plural. I have two. And I also have unicycle juggling lessons. And that’s not juggling on a unicycle. That’s actually juggling unicycles, which is way harder. So I’m going to get back to this after, if that’s cool. Well, we’ll finish it off.

Jeff (00:00:54):

Yeah, absolutely. I’ll be ready.

Mike (00:00:58):

Have you ever noticed that the people who respond to your Facebook ads are different than the people who come to your gym through other channels? If you’re running digital ads or if you’re thinking about starting, this is the show for you. We’re going to talk to you about how to deal with cold traffic. Today we’ll talk about what you can expect in a consultation with a cold lead and how you can increase your close rate. If you want to add $5,000 in monthly revenue to your gym, it can be done. If you want to know how, you can talk to a certified Two-Brain business mentor for free. Book a call at twobrainbusiness.com. Jeff Burlingame is a certified Two-Brain Business mentor. Jeff, how are you today?

Jeff (00:01:30):

I’m doing great, man. It’s good to talk to you. Loving your lumberjack robe.

Mike (00:01:35):

It’s like minus 30 with the wind chill here. I was just outside with my dogs, not my Komodo dragon. So I’m a normal guy. But yeah, I’m bundled up right now, big time. If you’re a gym owner, you’re out there, you might’ve noticed that sales are a lot harder to make as leads get colder. At first, warm leads come in, they’ve got their credit cards in hand and they’re chanting, I want to do the CrossFit over and over again. They’re just going to—that sale’s gonna make itself, they want what you’ve got. You’ve got to try pretty hard to lose the sale. The glory days don’t last. You guys have probably figured that out. As you get into Facebook advertising, you start attracting people who know less about you. They booked an appointment, but they might’ve done so while drunk and they don’t really want to show up for it.

Mike (00:02:13):

If they do, they don’t know anything about your business. They have no idea you’re a great coach. They don’t know about your programming skills and they couldn’t care less about your community and all its amazing members. They just know they saw some fitness thing on Facebook and they clicked on it and now they’re kind of confused and they’re standing in front of you. You’ve got to work for the sale. Today we’ll talk about that sales process with colder leads and we’ll give you tips on how to present services tied to ads. Now, Jeff, you are a certifed Two-Brain mentor, but I know you’re a sales expert. What qualifies you to be a sales expert? Tell me about that.

Jeff (00:02:43):

Yeah, so my experience with sales goes way back to my old college days. But yeah, basically like my first sales job was personal training because personal training you have to sell yourself. I mean, there’s no way to get any sessions to get paid for unless you get out there and you sell. And probably the hardest condition I can put myself in as a personal trainer would be selling on a college campus, which is where I started.

Mike (00:03:10):

There’s no money there.

Jeff (00:03:12):

There’s no money there. It’s funny, you end up selling more to like the professors than you do to the students. I did plenty of what we now call No-Sweat Intros with college students, which was quite a learning experience when somebody literally doesn’t have the money, it’s not just that they’re saying they don’t have the money. They literally don’t have the money.

Jeff (00:03:34):

They’re wrapped up in so much debt. It’s up to their eyeballs. It’s insane. But it was still a great experience. I got my first PT certification when I was 19, went back to campus that following semester and I started working at what we call our IM sports center at Michigan state university. So the main one, IM West, there’s like this really big one in the middle of campus. And you know, I pretty much would like. I walked in, I said, Hey, I want to do personal training. I met a lady there, she was really nice. I think her name was Patty and she like helped me get started and basically people would submit on little scrap sheets of paper that they were interested in personal training, like literally like Post-it notes, half sheet of paper.

Jeff (00:04:17):

You’re like, what the heck is this? And it would go into a file and then the trainers would fight over them and I would grab one. I was like, all right, I’m going to call this guy. And I would call them and say, Hey, when can you meet up? And it’s like a student. So then we book a time for the morning. Then they don’t show up because they’re hung over from partying the night before. And this was my grind for like a year and then I kind of gave up on it. But I had like four, I think I had four clients at some point in there. So it was like I was happy with that. I had no idea what I was doing with sales. I was just guessing the whole time.

Mike (00:04:46):

That’s a dirty start, like you got thrown into the toughest end.

Jeff (00:04:48):

Oh yeah, for sure. It was, again, it was great learning experience, but like we were doing as a part of the intro, we were doing a skinfold calipers on people, and I mean I had a view more overweight to obese clients and I thought this was what I was supposed to do. You know, I was getting a degree in bachelor—a bachelor’s in exercise science, and I was like, skinfold calipers, you know this, this is what you’re supposed to do. And I know how to do this, but like, people don’t want you to do that.

Mike (00:05:15):

They hate it. They absolutely hate it.

Jeff (00:05:17):

Yeah. So from there, like I bounced out of PT for a little bit and I worked at a sporting goods store, which will remain unnamed. And I sold the extended warranties on treadmills. That was like my next, you know, foot to the fire.

Mike (00:05:29):

That’s kinda like Cooper. Cooper’s got that back in his history, treadmill sales.

Jeff (00:05:34):

You know, and I didn’t know that until I read like his second book and then it popped out to me and I was like, Oh wow, we have the same experience. This is great. So that’s why I get along so well with the Two-Brain fam. But yeah, that was, you know, I became the top salesperson in the company for extended warranties a few times. That was nice. And then finally got back into PT, which is where I kind of stayed in the fitness realm there forward, you know, and started working at a sub-contracting personal training company. So again, not easy sales, like we were working inside of gyms that were pre-existing, had a preexisting membership base that people came there, they bought a membership and they thought, cool, I did the thing, I got this key card on my key ring and now I’m like, I work out at gyms. Like I’m cool. And then I would walk up to them while they’re on the treadmill and I had this little move where, you know, everybody has their headphones in.

Jeff (00:06:25):

I’d walk over and I’d do this. I’d grab my earbud that I didn’t have in my ear and then pull it out and they would mimic me and pull their ear bud out. And it was amazing. I had mind control dialed in.

Mike (00:06:35):

The Jedi mind trick.

Jeff (00:06:37):

So they would pull the ear bud out and then I had to like do my spiel, my little elevator pitch for why they should do an intro with me. So I mean like thinking about cold traffic that we’re talking about today, this came to mind when you mentioned the podcast. I was like, I’ve done that. I’ve dealt with that more so than we do in our gyms with an ad, you know, it’s like that’s cold traffic, but to me it’s almost like lukewarm.

Mike (00:06:58):

You’ve had a long hard road out of hell, I think.

Jeff (00:07:01):

Oh yeah. Like again, all good stuff. Like that training led me to, you know, overseeing four or five gyms when I was in Michigan under the sub contracting company. And then I moved with my wife out to Virginia for four years and I managed some really big box gyms. Not quite a franchise, but a big company based out of Chicago, that went East coast and New York. So I oversaw at some point 7 gyms, over two states, had seven managers, like four assistant managers and over 300 personal trainers. So had my experience with managing and selling with a, you know, at some months of the year, our monthly goal is like $3 million in personal training.

Mike (00:07:45):

That’s a lot of $50 sessions.

Jeff (00:07:47):

That’s quite a few. I’ve sold my fair share of 180 packs and 300 packs of sessions. And it’s, yeah, it was a grind, but I guess that qualifies me.

Mike (00:07:59):

It certainly does. And then you’ve also, you recently sold Friction CrossFit, correct?

Jeff (00:08:07):

Yes, I did, to two really great guys that started with me from the beginning.

Mike (00:08:11):

So you’ve dealt with some warmer traffic, like when you went through the CrossFit thing where people were coming in, they’re like, I saw the Games, I want to do the Games and you know, they give you their money, right?

Jeff (00:08:21):

Yeah. You know, right when we opened, I made the mistake of doing a Groupon, which was you know, a great idea. So I sold a lot of like $20 memberships. But then once we started charging what we were worth, we got some, you know, word of mouth, people coming in saying like, Hey, these guys are great. Coaching’s great. You’re going to love it. Their friend would come in and say like, yeah, my friends said I need to do this thing, so let’s do it. You know, card on the table. We call those lay down sales. You know, you can’t screw them up basically. And that’s like 20% of the volume of sales you get, unfortunately.

Mike (00:08:56):

Things have changed now like big time, you know, things—you know, CrossFit’s still cool, affiliate, functional fitness, all that stuff is still cool. But things, I mean, we’ve got all the Navy SEALs, we’ve got all the military people, we’ve got all the hardcore athletes now we’re working on their friends and family and you know, mothers, sisters, daughters, brothers, the whole deal. And then we’re working on people who don’t know anything about us. And we’re finding some ways to connect with these people. So a lot of us are running Facebook ads. We’re starting, you know, starting those campaigns or we’re working on them and we’re dealing with people who have literally never heard of a functional fitness gym. They’ve never heard of CrossFit, never heard anything. They just see whatever ad we’ve put up and whatever the picture is, battle ropes, whatever. And they click on it. They want to make an appointment to see you. Battle ropes actually works really well, if anyone out there is listening, that is a home run every time. So I’ll ask you this question right away. What’s the difference between someone who booked a No-Sweat Intro or an intro consultation after researching you and someone who’s just clicked a Facebook ad? Like what are these two different types of people all about?

Jeff (00:09:52):

Yeah, to me it’s a difference of motivation. So I think of like motivated buyers and unmotivated buyers. So you know, a motivated buyet is somebody who has that awareness level, they have an idea of what CrossFit is, or at least what the type of training is that you guys do. Maybe they know some people most likely that are doing it or that are doing it at your facility. So again, usually it leads to a lay down sale or at least like a very warm lead walking into your door. So pretty much you’re just like, OK, I have an idea of what the price is, you know, then you lay it out for me. And based on our conversation I’ll decide if it’s valuable enough to make that purchase. But most of the time they do. And then you have your unmotivated buyer, which is somebody like you mentioned the beginning, they’re drunk, it’s 2:00 AM they’re scrolling through Facebook.

Jeff (00:10:38):

They see your ad. They’re like, Oh, that looks cool. You know, I feel kind of insecure about myself at this moment in time. Maybe I should do this thing. And then they fill out the form. I mean, anybody running ads right now knows, they love it when they see the midnight to 3 AM lead that comes through, they’re like, yep, this is going to be legit, and they’re probably going to be excited. But then you call them and what happens? They’re like, I never filled that out.

Mike (00:11:01):

So they literally don’t remember filling it out or they’ll just deny that they did.

Jeff (00:11:05):

They’ll argue with you. Or they’ll be like, please don’t ever call me again. And you’re like, wait a second, like you invited me out for lunch. Why are you calling me the bad guy? I don’t get it. It happens more often than not. It’s hilarious.

Mike (00:11:19):

In previous shows, we’ve talked with Mateo Lopez of Two-Brain Marketing and he’s given us tips on how to get these people into the gym. And we’ve talked about like, you know, calling them and lead nurture sequences and things like that. So if you guys are interested, if that’s your problem, check back in our archives, you’ll find that stuff with Mateo Lopez. But now let’s say you’ve got these people, you know, so you’ve got these unmotivated buyers, they’ve clicked on something, they’ve, you know, probably tried to get out of it, but they’ve decided, OK, I’m going to come in now. They’re less likely—they walk in and they come into your building, what are you going to do? Like, how are you going to try set the tone with these guys? How are we going to try and motivate them? Moving them from unmotivated to motivated?

Jeff (00:11:56):

Yeah. So I think a very key aspect of that is the phase of discovery within our sales process. So, you know, the Two-Brain mentoring process, going through Incubator, we teach everybody how to do the No-Sweat Intro. And the key big piece of that No-Sweat Intro is discovery. And it’s really just finding out who this person is, what it is that they want to accomplish and why that matters to them. And by uncovering that, you’re uncovering their motivation. So, you know, just because I call them an unmotivated buyer just means that they start out that way. It doesn’t mean that they’ll finish that way, right? We can turn them into a motivated buyer by going through the appropriate process within the No-Sweat Intro. And once we discover that very necessary information, sometimes it’s enlightening to them.

Jeff (00:12:44):

Like they don’t even think about it that way, especially if you start asking the question of why, you know, like Ms. Jones, you mentioned that you wanted to lose 20 pounds. I guess that’s a great number and everything, but how’d you come up with that number? Like, why 20 pounds? You know, and then they’ll say something back like, I don’t know, it sounded like the right number. OK, well, let’s ask you this then. Why do you want to lose weight in the first place? What is that going to do for you? How is that gonna make you feel? And you start to peel these layers back. And you know, I always joke when I do sales calls that people are like ogres from the movie Shrek, peel these layers back if you have any hope of making a sale, especially with cold traffic.

Mike (00:13:20):

OK, we’re working the onion here to get to the motivation, figure why these people, you know, why the guy booked at No-Sweat Intro at 12:15 on January 1st, 2020 something like that, right? We’re trying to figure out what they really want.

Jeff (00:13:36):

Yeah. Sometimes they do that subconsciously. So a really good movie I saw recently a little little throw this in here. I watched some movie “Brittany Runs a Marathon” with my wife the other day. It’s a really good movie. Like the acting’s not maybe top notch or anything, but it’s pretty funny. It’s got its moments. But what it shows me is sort of that self sabotage that some people go through when it comes to fitness and health and your body and they turn to humor and they kind of joke about it or you know, they bury their feelings in alcohol or food or whatever. And you know, it’s very much like this mental anguish that they go through. But you know, the people around them don’t necessarily help either. So in the movie, like, the main character Brittany hangs out with her friend who is like skinny and, you know, quote unquote pretty, as far as like as an Instagram influencer and all this.

Jeff (00:14:32):

And you know, Brittany is overweight and doesn’t feel good about herself, but she just like goes out and parties with these guys and deals with it, you know. And I find that probably subconsciously, some of those 12 to 3:00 AM people that filling out that form, they’re just scrolling through and they’re like, you know what, like, I need to do this. Like, sure. The alcohol or whatever that they might be having at the time, you know, they may or may not be, you know, they might just be frustrated, you know? That might be influencing them to do it too, but subconsciously, like they feel like they need it. So to me, I always try to have a little inner monologue before they come in to build myself up to this. So I’ll just say like, I’m going to like this person no matter what.

Jeff (00:15:15):

Like I don’t care what they look like, I don’t care what they sound like, I don’t care, you know, if they’re grumpy or whatever. Like I’m going to find a way to like this person and we’re going to connect. And then I also try to tell myself that we can find a way to help this person no matter what. So whether they buy with me or not before they leave, I want them feeling like they’ve learned something or discovered something about themselves. And maybe they’ll take better strides forward after this and maybe join another gym, but at least they’re doing something, you know? And that’s what I want.

Mike (00:15:43):

And that’s cool. That’s like, you know, for me, I’m really poor at sales and like for me, I feel like I’m pressing people, I’m asking people for stuff and it’s just like, it’s not something I’m real comfortable with. The thing that helped me most, I’m still bad at it, but I’m working on it is Chris Cooper’s book “Help First,” and you kind of mentioned that where you’re helping these people, like obviously whoever these people are, we making the joke that like, they’re, you know, clicking when they’re drunk in the morning, that happens. But there are other people that are, like you said, very definitely they need something. They know that they’re unfit, they know they’re unhealthy or they know that they have a goal and they want to do something, want to make some kind of a change, and you hold the keys, like you as the gym owner, the salesperson actually hold the keys to that change and you can help them. So that idea for me really changes things where it’s not like I’m trying to push something on someone that he or she doesn’t want. It’s the idea that they want something that I can actually offer and provide. Right? And that of course there’s a monetary value attached to that, but that’s how transactions work.

Jeff (00:16:35):

Yeah. I mean, I inherently, sales is simply the exchange of some something of value for something of value, right? So I just, you have to understand that what you’re offering is extremely valuable. That your time is valuable, that the training methodology that you’re about to teach this person is valuable and that it therefore demands some sort of return of value. And we usually do that in the form of monetary cash. Right? That’s all there is to it. Sales is not this crazy thing of persuasion and trickery that it’s been built up to be through, you know, the classic, death of a salesman or car salesman type analogy. That’s not what we’re doing, right? We are here to help, but in order to do so, like somebody gots to get paid, you know.

Mike (00:17:22):

And ultimately I wanted the slap shop, you know, I didn’t want to chop onions the traditional way. So I bought the thing cause I wanted it, right.

Jeff (00:17:29):

Or the sham wow.

Mike (00:17:32):

This is great stuff. Like all those infomercials are great. I’m going to step back quickly and we’re going to take, I’m going to ask you this one: five steps, five ideas. Cold leads are less likely to show. How do you increase the chances? We have an entire show this, but I want your opinion and five things that our listeners can do right now to increase the chances when someone clicks, books, and you know it’s a cold lead that might not show, how do you do it?

Jeff (00:17:59):

So the one we talk about a lot in Two-Brain Marketing is speed to contact. The faster you can contact them, the more likely they are to show, right off the bat. So if you’re already waiting 24 hours, you’re basically dead in the water. If you can do it in 10 to 60 minutes, that’s amazing. Under 10 minutes is phenomenal. But as fast as humanly possible, and then don’t rely on maybe how you treat conversations or communication processes with your family, cause this is not your family. So you’re not going to leave a message and say, Hey mom, call me back when you get a chance. When it’s, you know, speed to contact with the consumer, we talk about double dials. So you know, you call them, they don’t answer. Do not leave a voicemail. Hang up and call right back.

Mike (00:18:46):

We tested this. Did you hear us? We tested this a couple episodes ago. It was with Mateo and I booked a No-Sweat Intro at Julie Johnston’s gym in Las Vegas. And just to see what would happen. I did the beginning of the show and within 10 minutes I got a call, and I didn’t expect it. So I just, I didn’t want to waste your time. So I turned it off. I got called back right away and Mateo’s like answer it, answer it. So we actually had the conversation, I told her like what we were doing and so forth, but that’s how fast they called me. We did another one with, Jack Wheeler and 360 Fitness in Red Deer, and he emailed me immediately personally cause he recognized my name and number but also his automated sequences hit me and they’re still running right now. So that’s how fast the speed to contact was in these great gyms from Jack Wheeler and Julie Johnston.

Jeff (00:19:27):

Yeah, I mean if anybody is going to crush it, it’s those two. So that doesn’t surprise me at all. So yeah, I mean, you know, double dial works. And then having like a sort of a fallback option usually on text, text is usually the next go-to as far as if people are actually going to read or listen or pay attention to you at all, email tends to get buried or spammed or something like that. You know, I don’t know how many people you know that really function on email super heavily anymore in this day and age. But yeah. So double dial, speed to contact, text them right after that. If they don’t answer that second dial, and then maybe send a video text.

Mike (00:20:03):

I like this, tell me about it. What do you do there?

Jeff (00:20:06):

Yeah, so it’s almost a joke at this point in Two-Brain Marketing, cause we want people to do this, but they refuse to. So usually what I tell people is like, Hey, you know, if you’re comfortable getting on camera, which you should be because you are in the area of business ownership, you’re in the area of building an audience and building an audience in 2020 requires you to be on camera. Deal with it. You know, I’m sorry to like just rip the rug out from under your feet there guys, but you got to get on camera. It’s life. So you know, if they’re totally uncomfortable, the problem is it will come off inauthentic, super cheesy and not work. It will work against you. So it is something where I say like, you got to practice getting on camera and try to make more videos and content for your business. And once you’re a little more comfortable, let’s you know, shoot me a video text and show me that and we’ll decide if you’re ready to do it.

Jeff (00:21:03):

But if you’re comfortable, video text that’s personalized to this individual that just filled out a form can have some amazing results. So Ms. Jones fills out a form, you double dial, you send her a text, say, Hey, I just want to get in touch to try and book this appointment for you. You know, because they’re interested right now obviously. And then you shoot the video if they don’t respond in the next hour or so, or you just hit the video text first. Again, if you’re comfortable doing that and just introduce yourself, you should have like your gym in the background. Basically what we’re doing there is we’re taking away some of the social anxieties of meeting someone new, going a place that you’ve never been before, new type of fitness facility you’ve never like seen or you don’t even have an image of your mind to relate this to. So it’s very uncomfortable for them. So we want to take away that social anxiety there and that sort of sets them at ease and then they’re more likely now to respond back. Now they know you. It’s like, Oh, it’s Jeff from Friction CrossFit. Like I’ve met this guy before, I’ve seen Friction CrossFit before in the background. Like, I’m not uncomfortable, I’ll respond, versus this, you know, no-name individual shooting you a text or calling you like, stop bothering me, guy.

Jeff (00:22:17):

So yeah, video text at work, if you guys can muster up the courage, trust me, it’s an awesome option.

Mike (00:22:23):

And Jeff, you mentioned that you’ll have your clients film the stuff and send them to you and then you can give them feedback. What Jeff’s talking about here is, you know, Two-Brain mentors, the staff works with clients all over the world and what they’ll do is they help them target their different aspects of their business for improvements. So, we’ve got the Incubator, it’s our 12-week sprint to get the foundations of your business in place. After that, we’re into the growth stage and that’s where we’re looking at the Two-Brain road map. It is this amazing, amazing tool where we’ll actually tell you step-by-step in a bunch of categories how to move the needle on your business. And it’s based on data. This is not made up stuff. We’ve targeted the best gyms in the world, found out what they do and we teach other gyms how to do it.

Mike (00:23:02):

If you want to work with someone like Jeff and add about $5,000 in monthly recurring revenue to your business, you can book a call to find out how that happens, it is at twobrainbusiness.com. Now I’m going to move on to the next thing here. Let’s just assume that you’ve had success and you’ve got this person, the person who’s going to come in, you’ve got a cold lead coming in the door. Talk to me about how you’re going to prepare your space. Like do you have a sales binder? I mean, what’s on your mind? You mentioned a few things that you tell yourself ahead of time, but what do you do with your physical space and how do you set the table for this?

Jeff (00:23:34):

Yeah, this is huge. So huge that we added it to the Two-Brain Incubator recently.

Mike (00:23:39):

Always in revisions, that thing.

Jeff (00:23:42):

Yeah. We don’t even let people do Two-Brain Marketing until they complete this checkbox here and it’s having a clean, organized space in order to perform that No-Sweat Intro, as well as, you know, have a sales binder or a visual presentation that’s extremely key. And a clipboard where you’re going to be able to like take notes on that No-Sweat Intro. So one thing I like to like really get people’s mindset straight on is that your potential client here, your prospect is not going to be upset if you’re like writing things on a clipboard unless you’re holding the clipboard in front of your face and not letting them see it. Then they’re like, you know, it’s kind of like the adage of a psychiatrist, you’re laying on their couch and they’re writing things in their notebook and you’re getting all antsy about like what are they doing? What are they saying? You know, we don’t want to let them build up that negative narrative. So show them that. Like, I like to sit at for this space, a pub table, which is fully, you know, it’s a circle, right? It’s rounded. I sit right next to them. I have the clipboard on the table with the paper on the clipboard and I’m writing notes so that they can read it, so I’m right handed. I sit to their left side and then I’m writing so that they can see everything as I go.

Mike (00:24:56):

Just not secretive.

Jeff (00:24:56):

Yeah, exactly. It’s not secretive. You’re not hiding anything. So there’s no anxiety being built up. Like it’s all about keeping anxiety low, right? If you guys have ever dropped in at a new facility, I mean I owned a CrossFit gym for five years and like if I drop in at a CrossFit gym right now, I get nervous.

Jeff (00:25:15):

So imagine somebody who never owned a CrossFit gym, never did CrossFit, maybe never worked out in their life, walking into a CrossFit gym and they’re probably a little anxious. So you need to like really bring that anxiety down and get them comfortable, get them trusting you. Because we are in the industry of high trust sales. You have to build trust. If you’re going to sell this high value program, you can’t expect to, you know, get away with just a little bit of rapport or high five and a handshake and then all of a sudden they’re paying you 250 bucks a month. It’s not gonna work, like that works for globo gyms because they’re charging 10 to 20 bucks. So in a globo gym, I can have a dirty space, dusty equipment, throw a high schooler in charge of sales and then that high schooler walks around the gym says, here’s the pec deck, here’s the leg press machine, here’s the treadmills, there’s the TVs, we get six channels, don’t worry, we get Grey’s Anatomy, you’re going to love it. And then sign this two year contracts.

Mike (00:26:09):

And I’m not coming after two months.

Jeff (00:26:12):

Yeah, exactly. You’ll stop coming in, but you can’t get out of your contract. If you want to we’ll charge you double the rate of the two years and you go, you’re welcome. So yeah, ultimately, you know, you’ve got to have that clean space organized. I like the pub table style with two bar stools or you have an extra person and then a clipboard sales binder and like you’re ready to run.

Mike (00:26:33):

And again, in the Incubator, we do teach you how to make these sales binders. We got a template in there that you can take a look at and it’s actually from Jeff’s gym, Friction CrossFit, Jeff’s old gym.

Mike (00:26:44):

And it’s a simple way that we just give you this thing that you can download. You take a look at it, you customize it for yourself. You can do whatever you want. If you want to add some design and pictures and so forth, you can do that. But we give you all this stuff so that you can figure it out. Essentially what we realized is that we need to teach gyms how to make sales because it’s not enough to just squat. We can now also teach people how to squat. But we’ve got to teach people how to get someone convinced that they need to squat. And that’s a huge, a huge problem. I mean, the quick aside that I’ve said before is like my gym, we survived a lot of times just on being good coaches. And we realized about three or four years ago that that wasn’t enough. And so we called Two-Brain for exactly that reason, to help us out. So now let’s go the other side of it. The person arrives, what is the wrong thing that you can do? Like, how can you blow this sale? We’ve got a cold lead. This’ll be funny. But how can you blow a sale right away? Just what’s the worst way to sink the ship?

Jeff (00:27:31):

So many ways.

Mike (00:27:32):

Give me the good ones.

Jeff (00:27:35):

so good ones that I’ve experienced from my team, and I won’t say any names cause they’re in Two-Brain now and they’re awesome. But my favorite things that I’ve ever seen would be like meeting the person with your shirt off while you’re sweaty. You’re mid-WOD, you know, you got this No-Sweat Intro. They’re supposed to be here like right at noon. It’s 11:55 and you’re like, I can finish this 20 minute AMRAP, it’s fine. And then you wrap it up, it’s 1159 and you’re like, OK, cool. You’re, you’re gasping for breath on the floor. They walk in the door. Now what? I mean, even if you throw a shirt on, at this point, you’re still sweaty and out of breath, so it doesn’t look great.

Mike (00:28:16):

Well, Jeff, I’m going to break in here and just tell you Ron Burgundy would disagree. Like Ron Burgundy thinks the best way to make the sale is to actually do this, right? You invite someone to the gym while you are working out and they walk up while you’re crushing curls or whatever and then you just show them the guns.

Jeff (00:28:30):

We can agree that that didn’t work out for Ron Burgundy.

Mike (00:28:34):

Not so well. It’s not going to work out in your gym either. You’ve got to wear a shirt. Don’t be sweaty. What else?

Jeff (00:28:41):

Yeah, so we want to establish trust, right? So this is high-trust sales. Some of the best ways we can do that is, you know, an exchange of, you know, a handshake, a warm welcome, you know, give them a bottle of water, offer them some coffee. I didn’t mention this on your last question there, but I think that’s a great way to do it. The opposite of that is also true. Don’t have a warm welcome that’s not going to do very well. So like, Oh Hey. Yeah. You got your intro at noon. OK, cool. Come over here. Sit down and yeah, I’ll be right back. I’m just going to go throw my shirt on cause I just finished my workout. You know, or another one with like, instead of having your shirt off, like you walk over with a bloody hand because you were doing like bar muscle-ups or something and you just tore your hand open.

Jeff (00:29:23):

Hey, don’t do that. That’s gross. No bodily fluids including sweat blood and other things. And then put a shirt on. Gosh, dang it. And then, yeah, need to have a warm welcome. So if you’re not doing that, that’s a problem. And leaving them hanging. So like nobody approaching them. There’s people in the gym, like you’re there, there’s coaches there. Maybe you’re busy wrapping something up. Your coaches are there, but they don’t even say hi. So all of my coaches would have to know that they have to go to introduce themselves right away. If somebody walks in the door, like, you don’t recognize that person, do something about it. Go talk to them and again, do that warm welcome for me if I’m like wrapping up with another No-Sweat Intro or I’m busy or whatever and I’ll be right with them. Right. And then I guess—there’s probably a thousand other things.

Mike (00:30:12):

I’ll ask you this one because this is one that we used to do right off the bat and I’ll ask you what the best practices are now. Gym tours, showing people your stuff.

Jeff (00:30:22):

Here are my things. So in Thor Ragnarok when he says behold my stuff, that’s basically what you’re doing and it’s not impressive at all. So the main way I talk about this to gym owners is that that person likely doesn’t have context. So you show them your fancy new Rogue Echo bikes or your fancy Concept 2 skiergs your, your wall of Skiergs and they have no context as to why that is valuable, important or noteworthy.

Mike (00:30:54):

It looks confusing and scary.

Jeff (00:30:56):

Yeah, it looks terrifying or worse yet, you’ve got a class going on, they’re doing Isabel 30 snatches for time and they’re just clanging and banging away. And this like nice little lady comes in and she’s never worked out a day in her life and she looks over and she’s like, Nope. And I’ve actually had that. I had a lady come in, she was in the gym for no more than 30 seconds. She did a 360, she looked at me and she said, this isn’t for me. I don’t even know her name. She didn’t even introduce herself. I didn’t get a chance to introduce myself and she walked right out the door.

Mike (00:31:26):

But the irony is like that woman literally could do Isabel with, you know, whatever the scaled thing that would apply to her. Right. So like if she came in looking for strength and conditioning or weight loss or you know, increased health or whatever her thing was, you could have used Isabel to do that. You just don’t want to let her see it. You don’t want to let your, you know, your beastly guys doing 225 or whatever, you know, scaling up. You don’t want to let, let her see that. What you really want is to just tell her that like, Oh, you know, you want to improve your strength. I have a program that can do that and improve your conditioning at the same time. We actually have a workout called Isabel, we’re going to lift something, you know, from ground overhead 30 times. But I’m going to give you something that works. We can even do it with a coffee cup if you want, you know, and she’s like, huh, tell me more.

Jeff (00:32:07):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, if we can tell people and provide that context that we can meet you where you are and take you where you want to go, like that’s the big key concept that we need to get across. And unfortunately you don’t really get a chance to do that if you make all of these mistakes because you basically boned the sale before it even started.

Mike (00:32:23):

And you’re talking like, again, we’re talking like these are cold leads. So like I always, you know, they’re trembling, you know, like they’re looking for an excuse to bolt, right? It’s like approaching a dog that’s, you know, very hesitant to let you pet it, it’s one of those situations you go too fast or you give them any excuse, they’re probably going to bolt because they’ve always got that price objection in the back of the head right off the top anyways.

Jeff (00:32:47):

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, our goal is tried to provide a positive narrative. So before they come in, they’ve already set these negative expectations. And it’s your job basically to break all of those expectations. So you want to make sure, like you can’t provide that warm welcome, somebody else in your facility does, whether it’s your members or your staff, ideally, that you know, your welcome area is clean, that the lighting is good, that everybody has their shirts on and isn’t sweaty or bleeding. That you have a clean area that’s maybe private. You know where you can get away from the clanging and banging og the barbells and actually hear each other speak.

Jeff (00:33:25):

You know, we want to break all those expectations down. And you know, as Mike mentioned, yeah, like don’t waste your time on a gym tour. It’s not going to do anything for you. And in most CrossFit gyms we can do what? They walk in the front door and you say, well here’s a place now let’s go sit down and talk. That’s my gym tour, it was always one second. It’s like, here’s the gym. Let’s sit down and chat. Right? Cause none of this makes sense to you right now. I’m going to hopefully provide some context and help it make sense to you over the course of the next 20, 30 minutes.

Mike (00:33:51):

All right, so those are your don’ts. Don’t blow the sale like that. We’re going to get back to do’s. And this is an interesting one because we run Facebook ads and you know, in a Facebook ad you can’t present 17 different things. You can’t tell people about all these different things that you’re going to do for them. You’re giving them one thing, and for a lot of us it’s a six week challenge or something similar, 90-day transformation, whatever it is. We’re using some sort of something, like some compelling offer to get them to click and come in. But we also know that in the No-Sweat Intro, our goal is not always to sell the thing that they clicked on. It’s to sell the thing that will help them most, the thing that they really want, the thing that they really need, the thing that will change their lives. So there is a way that you can blow this and make a horrible, horrible presentation that makes this person angry and think it’s a bait and switch, false advertising. There’s also ways to help people realize that, yes, I clicked on the six-week challenge, but man, I need personal training over four months or six months because I have a marathon coming or whatever it is. So talk about this. How do we deal with people who have seen X in a Facebook ad but come in and maybe don’t actually need X?

Jeff (00:34:53):

Yeah, I think that’s a great point to bring up. The way I look at it is at Friction CrossFit, for example, like my guys Mike and Bobby shout out boys, they have never sold a six-week challenge and we advertise a six-week challenge. So the main thing is again, context, and it’s that discovery phase is so crucial. Once that person comes in and we start talking about like what they want, why they want it, honestly consumer amnesia kicks in and nine times out of 10, they don’t even ask about the six-week challenge once we get to the end. We literally like, it’s not even in our sales binder. It used to be we tore it out because we were like, Oh, we don’t even sell this thing.

Jeff (00:35:36):

So you know, it’s there because on an advertising platform like Facebook, you live and die by like quick decisions, decisiveness, right? So they’re scrolling through and they see six-week challenge. That’s something that has like the short timestamp stands out to them. As I said before, maybe subconsciously they’ve been thinking about changing their body, their lifestyle, their health. And it just pops in their head like, Oh, I should fill this out. It seems like a win-win situation. Great. So they do that. That’s how we win on Facebook. But once they come through, that’s no longer relevant. What’s relevant is what matters to them, what’s going to get them results. So we have to provide that context during the No-Sweat Intro. So once they come in, we would just do a really good job with discovery, enough so to say like, Hey Mrs. Jones, you mentioned you wanted to lose 20 pounds, but you know, what’s really important here is that you mentioned losing that 20 pounds will provide you with a higher level of self confidence, which you think is going to help you with your relationships.

Jeff (00:36:33):

It’s going to help you with, you know, being able to walk up the stairs with your groceries without running out of breath like you do every day. Overall you’d be more productive at work, you’d probably get better sleep. It sounds like this is going to be great for your life. Am I right? She says, yes. I say great. You know, in order to help you accomplish this, the best thing that we have to offer you is personal training, right? Or, you know, in the case of Two-Brain Marketing, we usually recommend starting with like a hybrid package and a hybrid package might be far above and beyond that little six-week challenge, which you use to entice somebody. So it might be more like a 90-day journey—

Mike (00:37:07):

And that’s personal training and nutrition packaged together. Correct?

Jeff (00:37:10):

It’s all together, right? The six-week challenge in their head is like, everybody’s running a six-week challenge, let’s be honest, right?

Jeff (00:37:16):

Everybody’s doing this thing. It doesn’t mean it’s right. It just means it’s the best thing as far as like quick decisiveness on the internet, that’s all we want it for. So we get them in the door with that, but then we can introduce something amazing like a 90-day journey, which, you know, people in the Two-Brain family absolutely crushed with, and that 90-day journey, yeah, it’s personal training at least at the start, maybe the entire time at higher-value packages, plus nutrition. Right? So we get that well rounded approach to health and wellness and then maybe some group kind of like peppered in there, a little Salt Bay the end and they get great results because of it. But it’s obviously going to come out more expensive or higher value than a simple six-week challenge where you know, their expectation there is like six weeks of working out two to three days a week and like I’ll be fit.

Jeff (00:38:03):

That’s it. Right? So we kind of shatter that expectation. We show them the 90-day journey and we say like, this is the best thing for you. And like worst case, they don’t go with that, my guys would always pitch a personal training package next, right? So it’s just like drop to the next highest value.

Mike (00:38:17):

And so, you know, to be clear, this is not a bait and switch, because that stuff is out there where the people are, you know, quote unquote selling things that don’t exist or they are creating these horrible things where you know, you get your money back if you do all this stuff that no one can possibly do, that stuff is out there. And that’s not what we’re recommending, what we’re talking about here is you’ve got a compelling offer that you can supply to these people. But you’re finding out what they really need and what most people really need is not a six-week challenge, right? If they want a goal of I want to lose 20 pounds and I want to, you know, or I want to PR my marathon time or I want to become healthier long term, what you’re selling there is a lifestyle. You’re not selling a six-week challenge. And the second part of that that’s really important to remember is that, as business owners, you’re really not looking for a six-week member. You know, like, that’s not really a good thing. What you really want is you want a 10-year member, and we talk about a Two-Brain key metric is length of engagement. Some of our gyms have insane length of engagement numbers like in many, many years because you have that client long term that is great for your business because this person’s paying a high ticket service for a period of months and years.

Mike (00:39:20):

But this person is also getting something out of it. He or she is changing his or her life becoming fitter, becoming happier, stronger, healthier, a better parent. All the other stuff that comes with that. So again, not bait and switch. This is just research discovery, right? In the sales process and then figuring out what this person really needs to find success. And I’ll throw this at you and you can tell me if you agree. I think it would be dishonest of you to listen to a client’s goals and then not tell that person the exact best way to get there. What do you think?

Jeff (00:39:48):

Yeah, yeah, 100% and I mean us being consumers ourselves, like you guys have had this happen to you already. Like take anytime you bought a car, a TV, an appliance, whatever, you know, any higher value product that you’ve bought, maybe some services that you’ve bought, you’ve probably gone in with one expectation. I bought a refrigerator last year. So it’s a higher cost, you know, appliance I walked in with one expectation, I walked out with a different fridge than I came in expecting to buy, but it was because it was better for my space. So there’s different measurements, there’s different amenities that would come with it. So I had to get something that specifically fit my space as well as my needs, with my family with like two girls so they could like, you know, reach the freezer. I can’t have like a freezer on top.

Jeff (00:40:33):

For example, though that’s like a cheaper setup for a fridge, I needed it on bottom, easy rollout drawer. They can get in and get their little frozen popsicles, you know, things like that. So, you know, you got to go with what actually works. Again, expectation that I had wasn’t right, but that’s because I’m not the expert. And in this situation, these people coming in to talk to you about the six-week challenge, they’re not the experts. They’re the consumer. You’re the expert. If you’re in the sales seat and you have to do your job, it’s your responsibility to show them the right prescription. We call it prescriptive selling. We don’t, you know, some people actually, I have seen this, a few people have a prescription pad that they use. I will say a key thing legally is not to say that it’s a prescription cause you’re not a doctor. But if you want to use a cute little prescription pad, I mean, sure. Why not? Like, it’s kind of cool. We usually just recommend at least at the very least a sales binder. The little pad is kind of cool to like have a little more customization added to it. But again, like I told you, nine times out of 10, right, they forget. Consumer amnesia. They forget they came in for a six-week challenge and they don’t care anymore because of how much care and interest you’ve provided and the high trust that you’ve built up with them. They’re just like, I’ll do whatever this person says at this point, right. Because they’re the professional in the seat. One time out of 10 they might say yes, so what about that six-week challenge though? And that’s totally fine.

Mike (00:41:54):

So then how do we do that?

Jeff (00:41:57):

Yeah. So we’ll just back up and say like, absolutely you can do the six-week challenge. I’m never going to prevent somebody from doing that. That is what would be bait and switch if I said like, yeah, we don’t offer that. Sorry. You know, I know it says that, but we don’t do that. I just did it to get you in here, right?

Mike (00:42:11):

That’s a one-star Facebook review right there.

Jeff (00:42:14):

That is getting wrecked on Facebook. Yeah. So what we do instead is we just say like, Hey, you could absolutely do the six-week challenge. However, based on your goals as I recommended here, I think the 90-day journey is going to give you the best, fastest, safest route to accomplish those goals. And I think you’ll be really, really happy with it. Would you still like to look at the six-week challenge though?

Jeff (00:42:38):

They say yes, you’ve got to go with it. Just go with it. I mean that’s fine. I always tell people with sales like all that matters really is what they do today. You know, as long as they do something today, I’m happy. If it’s not what I ultimately want for them, that’s fine cause it’s not me that’s buying it, you know, it’s not my life. But I will say when they buy that six-week challenge, I’m just going to put more effort into that, into, you know, getting them to continue with those services afterwards. I think you need to work a little bit harder maybe just to paint the long-term narrative for them at that point and just say like, look, this six weeks is just a jumpstart, right. From here, here’s what we could do. And just start providing context for like the next nine 90 days to 180 days to a full year at that point. So they have this long vision rather than this simple little six-week journey that they might go on if.

Mike (00:43:32):

I love what you said because if you make that sale, you then have six weeks to build a relationship with that client, educate that client, nurture that client, and then eventually you earn the right to have an exit conversation with a warm lead at that point who knows about your business, knows what you’re all about, and then it becomes very easy, especially that’s where you know your great programming, you great coaching, your great relationship building, all that stuff comes in where this person now says, oh, this is valuable. This is helping me. Six weeks is not enough for me to lose 50 pounds, but I lost seven. I can now continue with the service. I want to do your hybrid package and I really care about you and I know I trust you. Right? So that whole process is a slippery slope.

Jeff (00:44:06):

Yeah, I mean it’s definitely not a loss. I would never take that as a loss. Like, oh, they didn’t buy my highest value package, oh no. Like, again, all that matters is what they do today. And then it’s basically you get the next, you know, whatever number of weeks, if they buy the six week or the 90 day or whatever, to really invest in them and build up that high trust and they’ll do anything. I mean, that’s why we talk about athlete check-ins as like a great opportunity with current clients. You know, doing like goal-review sessions, you know, for example, and sitting down with them, you have such high trust with them at this point that they’re like, Oh, you think I should do a couple of personal training sessions? You think I should add nutrition? Great. I mean, I’ll do what you say because you know what you’re doing.

Jeff (00:44:47):

You’re the expert. Hold the seat of the expert. That’s who you are in this situation. And be the expert and write that prescription and tell them what they need to do and push them towards that and they’ll do it.

Mike (00:44:59):

So you’re in the expert seat right now, upsells and downsells in these appointments. What’s more likely, what are people going to see when cold traffic comes in?

Jeff (00:45:06):

Yeah, so it’s much easier to downsell than upsell. I’ll just say that. So what I mean by that is in the Two-Brain model that we follow for sales is top-down selling. So you need to start with that highest value. So I mentioned nine times out of 10 they forget about the six-week challenge. And that’s a good thing because a six-week challenge is probably like somewhere in the middle as far as our value goes.

Jeff (00:45:30):

So if I start at six week, I can only go down. You can’t go six weeks. All right. So the six week challenge, it comes out to about a, you know, two payments of $250. You know, how does that sound? Blah blah, blah. They say that doesn’t sound great. You say, cool. How about this 90-day journey? That’s $500 every month for three months. How’s that sound?

Mike (00:45:49):

Not as good.

Jeff (00:45:49):

Can’t do that. And you know, the other example I always use is like if you go buy a car, like I went and bought a truck, right? And the person at the dealership is not going to show me the cheapest truck to buy first. They’re going to show me something like, they usually ask your price range or whatever. So they get an idea of where you’re at. So they don’t just completely out of left field you, but they’ll say, OK, cool.

Jeff (00:46:14):

You can spend, you know, $50,000 on a truck. I’m going to show you this $65,000 truck, but you’re going to want it so bad that you might just go for that. And worst case, you can’t do that. So I dropped to a $55,000 truck and you buy that truck, right? Still above what you thought you were going to do coming in. Right. And that’s sorta a key aspect and we use that in our process with that top down. Yeah. Let’s just look at like what upsells are. So upsells are basically you have somebody who bought something and then you upgrade them to another higher value service or you add on to that service. This happens most often with current members. I mentioned a athlete check-ins a minute ago. So with athlete check-ins, you’re meeting with a current member paying you for that service, but you recommend another service like nutrition or PT, and because you’re the expert in that situation, you’ve built a lot of trust with them over the years and they want to see better results.

Jeff (00:47:09):

They go with that, right? That’s an upsell. At the point of sale during the No-Sweat Intro, it’s very difficult to do that. Right. I mentioned the truck example, right? And you know you’re not going to start with the rust bucket on the lot and say like, yeah, it was $5,000 but how about this one that’s $15,000 right? It’s very hard to the other direction. So typically at the No-Sweat Intro, you see what we call a down sell or I like to think of it as like a drop down sale. Right? So we’re going to drop down from whatever high value service we start at like your 90 day journey to maybe that six week challenge or personal training if that’s the next highest value. And then maybe to like your on-ramp program or something just to kind of get them into doors. And again, all that matters is what they do today.

Jeff (00:47:54):

So as long as we get them started with something today, I’m happy with that. And there’ll be happy too, I know it. But yeah, we dropped down or down sell as you mentioned, but we have to also reframe it so it doesn’t sound like a consolation prize. Like, man, it’s unfortunate you can’t do that 90-day journey. You’re definitely not going to get the best program that we offer, but that’s OK. Like I have this six-week challenge. It’s all right.

Mike (00:48:20):

Thanks for the purple ribbon, Jeff.

Jeff (00:48:21):

Thanks for participating. Here’s your participation ribbon. Yeah, like we don’t want to do that. So we say, Hey, that’s totally fine. Like that’s an option. It’s always available to you. It’s something you can go back to. We actually offer ongoing nutrition, personal training. You can add it any time. So why don’t we do this, Mrs. Jones, let’s check out this six-week challenge. I think it’s going to be amazing for you. And then we just drop down to that. That’s how you have to transition. It has to be better than the 90-day journey at this point. Because again, all that matters is what they do today.

Mike (00:48:52):

Well, and I’ve seen some gyms really cleverly frame this stuff like where you’ve got, you know, we’re not going to throw 700 prices at them, but they’ve got like three prices where it’s like you got the premium package which is $1,000 and you’ve got the bronze package, which is $400 and you’ve got in the middle, you’ve got the shiny gold package that’s like 650 and it looks, it’s not the big one, which I can’t afford, but it’s not the crappy one, quote unquote that looks like at the bottom end. It’s that popular one in the middle. And in reality that’s what these gyms are trying to sell most of. Is that middle package. So they’re actually using those things, those other programs exist and they are premium options and basic options, but they are framing that middle price, which is often what they really want to sell.

Jeff (00:49:28):

Yeah, absolutely. We call that price anchoring and option closing, it’s like a combo effort there. But you know, if you have three options available, people usually go with the middle option. That’s what price anchoring is for, the high anchor and a low anchor. And that’ll up your average revenue per sale, which is fantastic. A good benefit to have. And then, you know, option closing rather than saying like, Hey, how does this sound? Would you like to get started today? What do you think about that? And these other like very weak closing questions, we can actually ask which of these options fits you best, which is my favorite closing question that I’ve used for 15 years. And it is the most effective one in my opinion because it’s something that can be asked very confidently and something that is very assumptive. You’re assuming that they’re going to do one of them. Now you just have to figure out which one, and if you assume they start assuming too. So it’s where I actually extract the old adage of assuming makes an ass out of you and me. I don’t believe that’s true in sales. It actually helps sales a lot if you’re assumptive.

Mike (00:50:29):

The one that I really liked from Chris Cooper is a variation of, you know, OK, do you want to do this style of training with me personally or do you want to do this in a group? And it’s like, it’s one of those two things. Which one do you want? But we’re doing it.

Jeff (00:50:41):

Yeah, exactly. We’re going to do something. Yeah. That’s an example of option closing for sure.

Mike (00:50:48):

  1. Moving on to a couple of last questions here. Objections. When you get objections from cold leads and ad clickers, are their objections different than warm leads?

Jeff (00:50:59):

Yeah, kind of, but only—I guess we’ll say this, right? So just like in CrossFit, you know, basically those objections, vary by degree, not kind.

Mike (00:51:12):

Nice analogy.

Jeff (00:51:12):

Yeah. Essentially it’s all the same. All objections are essentially the same. It’s always price. Right. And the thing with price is that there’s this sort of social anxiety attached to it in that I don’t want to tell you that I can’t afford your service or I don’t want to tell you that I don’t want to part with that amount of money for your service. It’s still the same thing. But I don’t want to say that. Because we’re in high trust sales, we experience a lot of what we call excuses or smoke screens because they don’t want to make you feel bad cause you’ve worked all this time developing this great rapport or trust with them, they don’t want to come out and say like, listen Mike, I gotta be honest with you. I don’t want to do this thing. I don’t think it sounds great. I don’t see any value in it. I’ll see you never. Bye, and slam the door behind your back. Right. It’s not going to happen. They’re going to say something like, yeah, it sounds great. You know, I just got to confirm that with my spouse. Hey, you know, can I sign up next Friday when I get paid? Blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s all the same thing. It’s still inherently price or you know, not wanting to or not seeing enough value in it to part with that amount of money. So yeah, it differs by you know, degree just in that they are going to have a harder time seeing the value mostly. Right? So it’s still going to be price, but they’re going to say things associated with value, which are excuses, which are things like, let me talk to my spouse, let me come back next week, whatever. And they board that be-back bus, which is a one way ticket to nowheresville. You never see them ever again. And it’s unfortunate.

Mike (00:52:41):

You need to do a really good job to try and deal with this stuff,I’m going to guess, because you said if they leave, they’re gone, for the most part. So you need to do a really good job with discovery. You need to do a really job of building value and building a relationship with this person. So that this person who maybe has a price concern can throw that thing out the window because he or she sees the value in what you’re presenting, right? Meaning like, OK, I don’t want to spend more than $500 but for 550 I can accomplish all my goals and be healthier. And you start doing some math there you start thinking maybe this is actually a good deal, not a bad deal.

Jeff (00:53:14):

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, in the new road map we disclosed a new way to handle objections, which is a step by step process. And people should check out Two-Brain mentoring if they want to learn more about that. But essentially it’s very easy to handle objections. I handle every objection the exact same way every single time and I’ll repeat it four or five times within one sales process. And nobody notices because consumer amnesia.

Mike (00:53:38):

What is it? I gotta know.

Jeff (00:53:38):

Well, you know, basically four quick steps. First thing I do is I agree with them. And that takes away the argument factor. If you ever argue in sales, you lose.

Mike (00:53:50):

You’re absolutely right about that.

Jeff (00:53:52):

Very important not to argue. So I just say, Hey Mrs. Jones, I totally get it. You know, I would check with my spouse too. Right? Or, you know, I understand budget’s very important, right? So we just agree with them. Second thing is a confirm the true objection. So I’ll say what you’re telling me Mrs. Jones is that you want to do one of these programs, you just don’t think you can afford it. And if you don’t mind me asking, which one of these three are you saying you can’t afford? Another benefit of having more than one option on a page. So we can kind of narrow that down and then what you just mentioned in building as much value as possible, the third step is to revisit the value stuff, that’s back in discovery. That’s at the beginning of the No-Sweat Intro. You ask them what they want, why they want it. So I like to say, Mrs. Jones, remember why we came here today, right? You booked an appointment with me because you interested in trying to lose some weight. We determined that amount of weight was 20 pounds. And furthermore, more importantly, you wanted to lose 20 pounds because of how much better you would feel. How it would boost your confidence, get you better sleep, you would have more energy, you’d be more productive at work, you’d be able to play with your kids much longer than you are now. And that’s all very important to you. Am I right?

Mike (00:55:04):

And that’s in your notes, right? Like you’ve got that in your notes.

Jeff (00:55:06):

You have it in your notes, we take notes for a reason or you go, people neglect their notes all the time. And I’m like, what the heck are you doing? Write it down. Go back, talk about it more than once. That’s what we call the hot button in sales. And it’s kind of like the Staples easy button. You’ve got to push that button like a thousand times if you want to make a sale, especially with cold traffic. And then finally step four, we come back and we do the reclose, which is the exact same close as the first close. You just say, all right, you might drop down, right? We talked about downselling or drop down sales, so drop down to a better option for them today and you say, Hey Mrs. Jones, therefore, you know which one of these options works better for you.

Mike (00:55:43):

So a simple four-step process. Again, we teach people how to do this and we actually teach people how to practice this and go through it, review it with them and so forth. Because you know this for me, you’re talking about this easy process for you. 15 years of of hell and sales in colleges and so forth. It makes me squidgy inside. You know, I get nervous about this. I’m not great at this whole thing and I know there’s people out there that are definitely, you know, would rather be teaching a squat than making a sale. But it can be learned. Am I right? Like can people get better at this stuff?

Jeff (00:56:10):

Oh absolutely. Sales is easy. I’m not going to pretend that I’m an expert because I did something crazy and went to a thousand clinics or courses or done anything like that. I never did a Dale Carnegie or any of that stuff. I read some books. I listened to the same audio books like 17 times in a row back at one of my jobs where I had to travel, you know, a couple hours a day in my car. So I did a lot of learning there, but most of it was just practice. That’s all it is. Sales is reps. It’s just practice, practice, practice. I talked to myself in the mirror a lot. It’s kind weird. I recorded myself on my phone. I role played with my wife, you know, do all sorts of different things like that just to get the practice. And sales is a system.

Jeff (00:56:53):

It’s not about being a smooth talker, right? It’s not at all because we’re not practicing persuasive selling. We’re practicing high-trust sales, so you can’t have trust and be persuading somebody to do something they’re not cause there’s no trust there, that’s breaking that trust. So it’s simply a system, right. I just gave you a system for handling objections, do step one, two, three and four, and you’ve handled the objections the same every time. So there’s like a little bit of a script, a little bit of a system to it and you just do the same thing repetitively.

Mike (00:57:22):

Have you seen your clients who have, who’ve implemented this stuff? Have you seen them improve? Go from like, my God, I can’t sell anything to having some successful sales?

Jeff (00:57:30):

Yeah, absolutely. Somebody posted in the Two-Brain group yesterday, which I’ll leave the name out for now, but she’s in the Two-Brain family. She’s in growth with us and I did a sales call with her in December and her whole team was against selling personal training. They thought they couldn’t do it and they started doing it. I was like, you gotta do this thing. So they got into it. They set it up. It took about a month to get everything together and they sold, I think four personal-training packages in a week. I was like OK, you can do it. Like sales isn’t hard. I know it’s scary at first and it feels like, Oh, am I going to be perceived as slimy? Like, no, you’re not. Just be yourself. Build trust, build rapport, be honest, don’t lie about stuff, and you won’t be slimy. Like you have to try to be a slimy salesperson, you have to cut all your moral values and just say like, I’m going to do whatever I want to do now.

Jeff (00:58:21):

And like, you can do that. But like you gotta try. I don’t think anybody who owns a CrossFit gym, at least that I know of or is in the Two-Brain family could be perceived as a slimy salesperson. There’s too high of a moral echelon that they’re following. You know, it’s just not going to happen.

Mike (00:58:39):

And we are in the relationship business as personal trainers. So, for most of us, I would almost say all of us, it’s, we’re building relationships with clients to help them with their health and fitness. We’re certainly not interested in bait and switch and slimy stuff and nonsense. That’s not going to help them because we actually do want to help them. I don’t know a gym owner out there in the microgym family that doesn’t genuinely want to help people. So that aspect of sales, the helping aspect of sales should come very naturally. And again, if you haven’t read it, I encourage you to pick up “Help First” by Chris Cooper. He’s written a bunch of books. This one is going to change the way you think about sales. It’s not selling, it’s helping. And really when someone comes to you and says, I have this problem with my health and you have a solution, you know, Jeff, does that sound like selling or does that sound like solving?

Jeff (00:59:26):

Yeah, that’s definitely problem solving. And that’s how I try to explain sales to everybody. It’s helping, it’s problem solving. That’s all you’re doing is you provide that solution. And yes, as I mentioned, you have to exchange something of value for something of value. So that’s dollars for services. It is what it is, but that’s the way the world works. And consumers get it. They’re not confused about that. They know that you have to exchange money for these services.

Mike (00:59:49):

It’s just simple economics. Everyone gets the deal and everybody gets paid and everyone’s happy. Thank you for listening guys. This has been sales with expert certified Two-Brain business mentor, Jeff Burlingame, and we are Two-Brain Radio. Please remember to subscribe for more. If you’ve got an opinion on the show, we would love to hear it. Please leave us a review. That would be spectacular. And if you’re a gym owner and you need some help growing your business, Two-Brain mentors can show you the exact steps to add $5,000 in recurring monthly revenue. You want to know more about that? Book a free call on twobusiness.com today. Thanks for listening. We’ll be back with more on Two-Brain Radio.


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Mike Doehla: Why Nutrition Coaching Isn’t Always About Food

Mike Doehla: Why Nutrition Coaching Isn’t Always About Food

Chris (00:02):

Mike Doehla is the founder of StrongerU.com that’s S T R O N G E R u.com. Like all of his 35,000 clients, I found Mike through word of mouth. His program simply works. But more than that, people become raving fans. Today I’m going to talk to Mike about nutrition coaching, what people actually need, which diet works best and how he scaled from his little CrossFit garage gym up to this massive worldwide company, including a nomination for the Inc. 500 Fastest Growing Companies list. It’s an amazing interview. Mike’s a very caring guy. I’m sure that’s part of the success, but he has a lot to teach us and he’s also an amazing teacher. You’re going to pick up a lot about nutrition coaching, what it takes, what people need and how you can help them best. Enjoy. Welcome to Two-Brain Radio. I’m your host Chris Cooper here every week with the best of the fitness industry. Got a sec? We would love to hear from you. I write emails to my mailing list every day and it’s a highlight when somebody takes the time to respond. If you’ve got feedback on my show or a guest you’d like to hear on Two-Brain Radio, email podcast@twobrainbusiness.com. And don’t forget to subscribe to Two-Brain Radio wherever you get your podcasts. Mike, welcome to Two-Brain Radio.

Mike (01:16):

Thanks for having me, Chris. How are you?

Chris (01:18):

I’m doing awesome man. It’s so awesome to have you here. And I want to get straight into the Stronger U story because I found it crazy interesting, but I think a lot of other people are gonna find it interesting too.

Mike (01:30):

Yeah. So, I’ll tell the story. I’ll try to keep it quick and concise and maybe interesting. But my quick story is first my name is Mike Doehla. I’m from Newburgh New York. I was what I like to call a career under achiever, not really knowing what the heck I wanted to do with my life. In my young thirties, into the fitness stuff. Found CrossFit, thought that I could open a garage gym, grow it into a bigger warehouse place or space and live happily ever after. 13 months later, didn’t really happen. Nobody really cared. I wish I knew more about you at that time cause I probably could have learned a lot and probably have done things the right way. But it didn’t work out. It didn’t really work out, but I pivoted to what I thought more people needed help with in my world, which was nutrition. So I, you know, I had my certifications, had my education, had my experiences and ideas that I needed to give to more people. So I went online and almost five years later now we’ve had 35,000 members in 50 countries, almost entirely through word of mouth, just getting people to do the things that matter and ignoring all the nonsense and confusing and difficult parts of nutrition.

Chris (02:50):

All right, well, we’re definitely going to get into that. But you know, one of my favorite things is that you’re a nice guy and more and more in this industry it seems like the loudest guy wins. So how did you grow with word of mouth to 35,000 clients?

Mike (03:05):

Dude, I mean, I don’t know. There’s probably some crazy tactics that I do and that I think of that I might not even be realizing, but I think that might be the thing. I definitely go out of my way to help people out, to make sure they know I’m genuine, to show that like I’m not here just to take somebody’s money. I don’t want that at all. I want to see people succeed. And a big part of this, like it’s funny because I wanted to be right about nutrition. I wanted to show people that they didn’t have to make it so complicated. There’s a million different books out there, there’s a million different methods and a lot of them just bring them to one place, weight loss, and they have no idea how to keep it. They don’t know even why it works. They don’t know if they had to even do those things. And we’re just like, Hey, it’s a lot more simple. It’s not easy, but it’s a rather simple process.

Chris (04:01):

So let me take you back to 13 months into owning your gym, right? And you decided something’s got to change, I’ve got to do something else. I think we all hit that point. What made you decide like online nutrition coaching is the thing that I’m going to do?

Mike (04:14):

I think I started to realize that people were getting good workouts all over the place in our area. There was some amazing gyms and I was thinking, I’m not the guy that needs to do this here. I can make a bigger mark helping people with the food and I can complement the work that these gyms are doing and the work that the people are doing in those gyms.

Chris (04:37):

That seems really insightful on many levels, you know? And it makes me wonder why more people don’t have that epiphany. Is it because you’ve had experience with nutrition in the past yourself or is it just the way your education was set up or?

Mike (04:52):

I think it was like a lot of the cards kind of fell into place. Like I was still working full time in human resources at the time. So even with the gym, and part of the reason I think it didn’t work out well was because I could only do it a couple of hours a day. So, you know, the effort was like 15% effort when I really wanted to put like 120% into it. So that alone, like I couldn’t really do it. I started thinking like, well what do I know best? And it was the nutrition stuff. It was the strategy. I like to think I’m a pretty emotionally intelligent person and I can kind of see how people are thinking and why they’re doing things and I can create solutions for those things. Cause that’s what I think is the missing piece. It’s not the information, it’s the application and understanding how people live, even if I’m not like those people, and fixing the issues and challenges they have.

Chris (05:44):

That’s actually maybe the biggest problem in the whole fitness industry is understanding that you’re not like your clients. And so, you know, were you starting to do nutrition coaching with the people who were already clients at your gym or people in your workplace? How did you get started?

Mike (05:58):

Yes. So my first client officially was a gym owner that I met through like a CrossFit competition, relatively local to us that pretty much just saw some of my posts online and I became friends with her and she’s like, Hey, I’ll hire you. And I was like, Holy crap. Like did I just create another job? And I wanted to do it, but I was trying to give people advice for free and nobody was listening. It’s an interesting point when you say, Hey, pay me a little bit of money. There’s that investment into themselves at that point. So I had her and she did well, I mean like textbook results. Exactly what I was hoping to see, I saw, and people she knew saw it as well and they were like, wait, I need to get you over here as well. And then it just kinda like started snowballing.

Chris (06:47):

That’s really interesting. So I want to start there with, you know, I have to charge somebody money for it. So there’s a blog post coming out, it’ll probably come out the day before this interview goes live. And I’m talking about charging for nutrition advice, because you and I know back in the olden days of CrossFit, it’s just like, well we talk about the Zone after class and that’s our nutrition coaching. Now I find that if I’m not paying at least $150 a month to a nutrition coach, I just don’t pay attention. I don’t listen to what she says, you know, so that’s one element. Like people have to pay for it and you see better retention or better adherence or what because of that?

Mike (07:24):

Yeah, I think people just know that it’s like the sunken cost thing. They don’t want to throw money at something and not do something about it. So like if you buy—and you know, it backfires with the food stuff because sometimes people will spend money on a bag of chips, only want a serving, but they’re like, wait, now I gotta use this thing. I spent money on it so I’m going to dig into the chips. And that’s a lot of this stuff we talk about is, you know, buy smaller serving sizes and things like that. But with the nutrition stuff, it’s like, yeah, it’s like anything, when someone’s watching you and you’re paying for it, you’re just going to behave a little bit better.

Chris (07:58):

So that’s interesting. And we haven’t talked about like a nutritional philosophy or anything like that yet, Mike, because that’s not really what you do, right?

Mike (08:06):

No and that’s the thing, I was on actually—I got interviewed on Sirius Radio one time and the lady was asking me, she’s like, I don’t get it. So what do you tell them to eat? And I’m like, that’s it. We don’t. We don’t tell people exactly what they have to eat cause that’s not the problem. And we had—it was funny, we had a bunch of our members listening in and they were like, man, I don’t know how you kept your cool. She was just like throwing that at you over and over. And I say, because we’re so trained to think that we need to be told exactly what to eat and yeah, there’s a bunch of stuff we should probably eat. The nutrient-dense whole foods mostly. But there’s no reason people can’t enjoy a little bit. They just have to be more mindful of it.

Chris (08:48):

Okay. That’s interesting. Would you still call yourself a nutrition coach or would you call yourself more of a behavioral coach or a coach or something else?

Mike (08:56):

I like to think like, you know, when I started I’m like, I’m nutrition guy and then I was like, wait, I’m like food strategist. That’s more of what I do. That’s more of what I enjoy, is not so much like, I’m not trying to get into the weeds about like what the pancreas is doing and digestion all that like, yeah, sure, I know about it, but that’s not the problem. You know, you might get people asking about those things. Like the whole, you know, the insulin argument flies all over the internet and it’s like, hey, it’s probably not the insulin. It’s that you drink wine every night. You eat in an inebriated state, you go out to eat five nights a week, you sleep like crap, you’re stressed out. Do you really think it’s insulin or is it just too much food somewhere because of a lack of structure? That’s what it is.

Chris (09:42):

Okay. That’s amazing. And I can actually give an example as a client of your program. Jody told me maybe two days ago to use MyFitnessPal backward. She said, put the food in that you intend to eat for the day first, see where you fall and then do your meal planning from that instead of just logging your stuff like, you know, after the fact. And that to me, that little epiphany made a massive change. Like that’s worth the price of admission to your program right there. What are some of the other things that people take away from your program that they’re not getting from books or diets?

Mike (10:16):

I think just having support there for their journey. That’s the thing. And like, you know, it’s funny and we could talk about it, but I’m currently writing a book now, but if you buy the book and you don’t have any stake in the game or you don’t really care to do it, it’s not going to work. And I think that’s the problem. And with these books and with these programs and everything, you don’t really know who to listen to. And again, I’m just another one of the people that is throwing my hat in the game and saying, hey, please listen to us. But we have the evidence, we have the proof, we have the people that are growing the business, not tricky marketing and false promises.

Chris (10:55):

Do you find that’s most effective though? It’s not like paleo versus Zone, it’s just do this one thing?

Mike (11:04):

I think it is. It’s really hard to get people’s buy-in though because those things sound exciting and they also kind of outsource responsibility. So if we say, well, hey, here’s what you need to do and here’s why it’s going to work and it falls on their behaviors and their decision-making and choices, it’s a little more painful to accept that as a person, saying like, oh crap, like that was me. That was my decision-making because. Because like the paleos, the ketos, the intermittent fasting things, it’s saying it’s something else and we’re saying, hey, it’s you. That’s okay. It doesn’t make you a bad person. Just means we have some self-awareness things to address.

Chris (11:43):

And when somebody starts your program, I know you understand your client avatar really, really well. When somebody starts your program, have they already come to that realization or are you kind of coaching them through that as they’re warming up to buy or?

Mike (11:56):

I would say most people haven’t come there yet, cause a lot of people, like they’re very hesitant to track intake. They’re like, I don’t want to track, I don’t need to track. Just tell me what to do. And we’re like, Hey, that’s what led you here. You can go out there and try another thing and it might work. But I want to find out what’s going on and tracking, you know, checking macronutrients and things isn’t about being perfect. It’s just about, you know, taking the blinders off and seeing what the heck is actually happening. And it’s no different than if you go to your financial advisor or your accountant and you’re like, Hey man, I’m broke every month. What is going on? And they say, well, come back next month. Show me what you’re doing and we’re going to go over your budget and you go back next month and you say, I didn’t do it. And he’s like, why didn’t you do it? You say, I didn’t feel like it. Well, and then he says, then you’re always going to be broke. Until you start tracking what’s happening, you’re never going to know what’s really happening.

Chris (12:51):

Do you find a lot of people kind of have that epiphany as soon as they start with you? Like just the act of tracking makes them better?

Mike (12:58):

Yeah, I mean it’s funny, man, it’s again, it’s not even like the macros that matter. It’s that, Holy crap, I’ve been blowing it at breakfast every day or holy crap, I’m eating, you know, 50 grams of fat while I’m watching Netflix and I didn’t even realize it. That’s what tracking does. It’s hardly about, you know, cool. You have 160 grams of protein. I don’t give a crap. It’s like, what are the behaviors behind that 160? What do you have to do to hit that? What does that change when you do that now? And that’s again, you know, like you can track calories, but when you’re tracking the macronutrients, you have control over the influence a little bit better as well.

Chris (13:39):

it definitely stopped me from having a second pancake yesterday, I’ll say that. Do you find—how important is like personal experience to your coaches? You know, as they’re related in these messages to your clients, do they have to learn those things from other clients or do most of them have—have they gone through it themselves?

Mike (13:57):

Yeah. So most of our people, well not most, but many of our coaches were clients. Most weren’t, but they’ve experienced this world themselves. So I don’t think, you know, coaches don’t have to be this like Greek god of a statue and be in the most insane shape in the world, but they need to know what their clients are going to be going through. They need to know what the challenges are. They need to know, like, you know, walk through a grocery store, see what’s out there, get into MyFitnessPal, play around. You know, what is their social life like? Do they understand what it’s like for the busy mom? Do they know what it’s like for the CrossFit athlete that could actually get by on really crappy nutrition because they work hard. You know, those are some of the most difficult ones. But yeah, I think that, you know, the coaches are great because they have done everything they ask their clients to do.

Chris (14:53):

All right. So that leads us back to that discussion on, you know, are we coaching habits here or are we just teaching some kind of knowledge? What do you look for when you’re selecting these coaches out of your current clients?

Mike (15:05):

This is such a hard question and I was actually thinking about this yesterday. Like if anyone ever wants to make me uncomfortable in person, ask me how they get a job at Stronger U, cause I’m like, I don’t even know. So it’s like, I think the—and this goes back to the emotional intelligence thing. I think there’s like all these characteristics I look for in a Stronger U coach. Knowledge and experiences is, you know, number one, without that, you can’t help anyone with this stuff. Second is like, what type of person are you? Are you available? Are you nice? Do you have great customer service? Can you listen well? Can you problem solve? Can you be a detective for people? And then it’s like if the stars align and we’re looking and those people are looking for a job, then maybe we can go to the next step.

Chris (15:55):

I noticed you have a lot of, you know, former CrossFit gym owners as coaches, or maybe that’s just my perception because I recognize them. Is that true? And you know, are they still doing their gym thing as well as coaching for Stronger U or what’s typical there?

Mike (16:08):

Yeah, we have quite a few. Usually how it happens is they come on board with us as a client after one of their members were on the program and they’re like, what the heck are you guys doing? Like, this is cool. My members are great, I want to do it. And then they just fall in love with it. They’re like, Holy crap. Like this is where you really see crazy changes in people. And then we just, you know, become friends. We talk a lot and then they just come on this side. Some of them actually close down their gyms because this was their primary thing and they like to work from home. Other coaches do both still.

Chris (16:45):

That’s really interesting. I know more and more gyms are getting into nutrition. We’re actually really encouraging that too. Where do you see nutrition fitting as part of a gym owner’s business?

Mike (16:57):

I think, I mean, it’s tough. There’s a ton of different ways to do it. They could try to do it themselves, they can outsource it, you know, to people like us. But they need to do something with it and they need to be consistent. I think that’s, you know, if I can say anything about the consistency in the gyms or out there anywhere, it’s you have to stick to what you know and what actually matters, because a lot of people in the gyms will bounce from thing to thing and then the members are like, wait, but what is it? What am I supposed to do? And if every six months the gym owners are telling them something different, the trust factor kind of gets lost there. So definitely stay consistent with the messaging.

Chris (17:41):

That’s interesting cause I can remember going through that, you know, everybody was paleo for a little while and before that everybody was Zone perfect or whatever you called it and then now everybody’s keto. Right. So number one, how important is it for the gym owner or the coaches to model the same thing? I guess we’ll start with that.

Mike (18:01):

Within each other? Like the owners and the coaches?

Chris (18:04):

Yeah. Like what happens if I’m an owner and I’m doing Zone and I’ve got a coach doing keto, what should I do around that messaging?

Mike (18:11):

Yeah, that’s a difficult one because the—again, the consistency. It’s like if our coaches are saying different things, the members will be like, wait, Mike said this and Cindy is saying that and Derek and Glen are saying this and it’s like, okay, who do I listen to? And that’s where you have to think of like what actually matters, right? Like calories matter the most if we’re talking about like fat loss and body composition, macronutrients. And then you could get into like food quality, timing, all that stuff. So if a coach is saying, Hey, keto is the way to go, but six months earlier or someone else is saying it’s paleo, well then how do you find out the answer? And that’s, I don’t know, man. That’s a tough one. It’s a really tough question to answer.

Chris (18:58):

I had a conversation with a gym owner this morning about meeting them where they are. So he said that 80% of his new clients came in for weight loss. But what he really wanted to talk to them about how to move better. And I said, you know, that conversation can deepen over time as your relationship does. Do you find over time with clients that you need to get deeper in the advice that you give them? Or are you always staying kind of at like the macro calorie service level?

Mike (19:27):

So I think it’s a combination, but it really depends on the person. So that kind of goes back to meeting them where they are. Some people, they, you know, they just want to lose fat and they don’t need to know all that stuff. But some people, if they do know that stuff, they’re going to lose fat better because they’re going to trust you more because you’re giving them the why behind everything. So yeah, I like to get, you know, kind of deep. I don’t like to just say like, Hey, trust the process, do this, do that. I kind of hate that term, but yeah.

Chris (20:01):

Okay. So is there a kind of like, are you telling the coaches at Stronger U work more topics into the conversation, educate the client as you go along? Or are you just saying, wait and see what the client wants answered?

Mike (20:14):

I think it’s a combination of both. Tell them, you know, give them the stuff that we have and the resources and things, but coach them based on how they need to be coached. Otherwise it’s just another cookie-cutter program. So everything is about how the relationship and what the needs of the client are.

Chris (20:32):

I asked you how you identified staff, but how do you prepare them to work with clients under your model? Like you know, the one thing that they can’t do is like copy your care, right?

Mike (20:42):

Yeah. And that’s it. Like it’s, you know, the macro thing was like the hot thing. I think it’s now teetering into the keto IF thing, but we’re not changing the way we do things. So if we can just, you know, have our coaches onboard properly, you know, it’s like a six-week onboarding process after they get through all the interviews and everything. So not easy, but we make sure they are good to go. They’re well prepared. They have all the tools they need. I mean, we have, you know, our workplace group is like 70 of our staff just talking all day long about challenges and opportunities and things like that. So we can coach any individual.

Chris (21:24):

That’s great, Mike. All right. Tell us about your book.

Mike (21:28):

Oh man, the book.

Chris (21:29):

Why are you writing the book, let’s start there.

Mike (21:32):

I’m writing it because I have so many thoughts in my head and so many things I need to say, and I’m kind of sick of just putting everything on Facebook or Instagram. So I think this book is not to try to become like a New York Times bestseller or anything like that. It’s to simplify nutrition and just tell people what they need to know. I’m not going to go too deep and make it look like a science textbook. It’s like if I’m trying to build the perfect eater and they’re like, all right, I’m ready to go. They pick this thing up. They know why they’re going to do things, they know how to do things, they know how to adjust things, transition from fat loss to maintenance, they know how to handle any situation they’re going to get into and they just kind of become the person that they always wanted to be. It’s not just lose weight, it’s lose weight, keep it off, and just be okay with being that person. So that’s it in a nutshell, I guess.

Chris (22:30):

That’s great man. So let’s say that, you know, I’m a consumer at the store. I buy this book. I say, this is great. I’m convinced that I need coaching and I belong to a gym and I go to that gym owner and I say, hey Mike, man, I need some accountability here. And the gym owner’s, like that’s a great idea. I’ve never sold nutrition before. What should they do?

Mike (22:50):

They should probably reach out to us directly. And I would love to talk to the gym owner or the members. We can come and do seminars. I mean, whatever. I just—my whole thing is like, we have something that’s working really, really well for tens of thousands of people and still nobody even knows about it and I need to get it out there.

Chris (23:11):

Yeah, I can definitely attest to its power and you know, I’ll be honest, Mike, I knew we’d be talking, and so that’s why I signed up for the program. I wanted to test it out, but it’s really great, you know, I love it.

Mike (23:22):

I’m glad you like it. And it’s weird. I’m in a weird place where I always think like, I still get surprised at how happy everyone is. It’s still like, you know, I see these reviews and these comments and I’m like, Oh my God, it is working and I’m still five years in. I love it man. It’s so cool.

Chris (23:42):

Let me ask you this, since you brought that up, because you know there people at like our Tinker level who are listening to this right now. You get 300 great reviews of the day, right? You get one like troll who’s like, this can’t possibly work. Macros are BS. Which one sticks in your brain and how do you get that troll out of there?

Mike (24:01):

You know, my answer. The one that is like, this is stupid, blah, blah, blah. I mean it’s—and I think we’re hard wired as humans to think about that cause in some way it’s like a threat, right? So we’re like, no, survive, recognize the threat. I just try to go back, and we have some things we’ll tell our coaches, like save those really awesome messages because when things aren’t going well or you’re having a bad day, if you look at all the people you’re affecting positively, it just overshadows the negative.

Chris (24:37):

Well that is $1 million lesson right there, Mike. Thanks so much for sharing that with us. I’m going to have links to all of your content below. If people listening to this podcast want to get in touch with you, what’s the fastest way?

Mike (24:49):

mike@strongeru.com, and that’s the letter U.

Chris (24:54):

Got it.

Chris (24:59):

Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. I’m Chris Cooper and I’m here every Thursday. Every Wednesday, Sean Woodland brings you the best stories from the fitness community, and every Monday, we’ll bring you marketing tips and success stories from our clients. Please subscribe to Two-Brain Radio and share this show with any friends we can help.


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Camille Leblanc-Bazinet: Becoming a Fearless Unicorn

Camille Leblanc-Bazinet: Becoming a Fearless Unicorn

Sean (00:05):

Hi everybody. Welcome to another edition of Two-Brain Radio with Sean Woodland. On today’s episode I talk with 10-time CrossFit Games athlete and the 2014 fittest woman on Earth, Camille Leblanc-Bazinet. Over the last months, I’ve interviewed some truly amazing guests. Stacie Tovar, Tanya Wagner, Adrian Bozman, Chris Hinshaw, Rory Mckernan, Julie Foucher and more. So if you’ve missed out on this stuff, check out our archives for the best stories from the fitness community, and to avoid FOMO, please subscribe Two-Brain Radio. I’ve got a spectacular guest coming every single week. Camille Leblanc-Bazinet is one of the most recognizable female athletes in CrossFit Games history. She appeared at the Games every year from 2010 to 2018 as an individual and she stood on the podium as a member of a team last year. She is also the founder of the online training program Féroce Fitness. We talk about her competitive career in CrossFit, what it was like winning the 2014 Games and what it was that led her to start her own training company. Thanks for listening everybody. Camille, thanks so much for joining me. How are you doing today?

Camille (01:19):

Good, thanks. How are you?

Sean (01:20):

I’m wonderful. Thank you. First off, I just read that you were going to compete as a legend at the 2020 Rogue Invitational. What’s it like to be referred to as a legend?

Camille (01:30):

I think like what the mean is a completely broken down athlete you can get to show up again.

Sean (01:38):

Oh man, I don’t know about that but that was a fun show to watch last year and it’s cool that we’re going to have you out on the competition floor this year.

Camille (01:46):

Really sad I missed it last year. I mean like all the people that are part of that legend group, it’s really like the OG when there was no fame, no money involved and we were all in just for, you know, the love of the sport. Those girls made such a huge impact for me in my life. Cause it was the really the first time that I had like camaraderie with other women, that we raise each other up and that stayed with me forever since then. And also what I tried to give all the newbie that came in this sport I was always welcoming to them. So I was sad that I missed last year so I’m super stoked to do it this year with my, what’s the word, with my fitness that’s kind of going down.

Sean (02:38):

Everyone knows you from CrossFit. I think a lot of people who got in even early, you’ve always been around, but what was your athletic background prior to getting into CrossFit?

Camille (02:47):

You know, I’m a do it all type of girl. So gymnastic was the biggest one, so this is how I realize why I loved CrossFit so much. I’m just someone that is always in and in CrossFit you got to practice a lot of different sport, which I really enjoy that. But in school I was part of every single team sport that existed. So I did literally everything except biking. And yeah, that’s about it. I did almost everything and basketball for obvious reasons.

Sean (03:28):

Yeah. Why do you think you excelled at gymnastics?

Camille (03:34):

I was fearless and I also think that was one of my biggest strengths in CrossFit. And if you look at how much weight I could lift for my size, I think it always came from being fearless towards what people would qualify as impossible. So for my size and all of that, people would just be oh, Cam’s too small, like she’ll never be strong. And for me that was just a all right, I’ll take the dare and I think like literally everything in my life is kind of built around that, including my business. The unicorn from my brand is just this like mystical creature. It’s the, what’s the word? It’s the master transformation kind of making dreams happen and all of that. So I think that’s, yeah, that’s just in me.

Sean (04:36):

Your gymnastics career came to an end when you tore your hip. How did you deal with that?

Camille (04:43):

I’m sorry, repeat your question. I didn’t hear it.

Sean (04:46):

How did you deal with the fact that you couldn’t do gymnastics anymore after tearing your hip?

Camille (04:52):

I think life just throw at you exactly what you need. And even back then, that’s how I saw it. It was just, I was done. I was just done. I was just done with gymnastics, because my—the higher level group that I needed to be in would only take me like two or three times a week cause my parents couldn’t pay for me to be part of like the, like the kind of the girls that were the national team and the organization was too stubborn about the money. So when I did gymnastics, I remember thinking I’m going to be so good that they won’t have a choice, you know, they’re going to see me work so hard that they’ll just take me. And cause my parents couldn’t pay rhey never did. And me working so hard, it’s kind of how I ended up hurting myself. And then I became very like angry at just the whole organization. So literally when I quit gymnastic, I didn’t even do a handstand for like two years. I was so over it.

Sean (06:02):

Once you were back to feeling 100% and fully healed, what did you then turn to to kind of get your competitive outlet or get your competitive juices out?

Camille (06:12):

Yeah, so I think this is just how I’ve always work and also I think this is a little bit of the reason why I’m able to really find my passion. Like a lot of people are just looking left and right. They see something that they think might be fun and they really struggle to find that thing that like lights them on fire. And for me, I’ve always just found this search like as my goal. So as soon as I stopped gymnastics, I signed up for every sport that exists. I would always try anything and everything and always do it as good as I could and nothing really like sent me on fire. And then obviously one day I did CrossFit and how hard it was and how it push me mentally just that one time I tried it, it really set me on fire and I just knew I found something special. So when I stopped gymnastic and I started to heal, that became my next search. It was just like, what is that next thing that’s going to set me on fire? And like, same thing goes to school and would try like a lot of different classes. Like I did art and music and everything cause I wanted to see like, what’s going to trigger me and let’s stick to that. So yeah, that’s just what I did. And the same thing I’m doing now.

Sean (07:42):

How exactly did you find CrossFit?

Camille (07:46):

Someone just challenged me to it. And that was it.

Sean (07:49):

What was the challenge?

Camille (07:52):

So when I stopped gymnastic I was playing rugby and I started to like, I mean, I’m a psycho since ever, this is not like not like a new thing. So people who are like, Oh, she just magically became this like crazy person. Like I totally own my craziness and I love it. But yeah, one of my girlfriend played rugby, so I started playing rugby and I was—people said running marathon was hard. I was like, well, I’ll run a marathon when I’m 18. So like when I was 18, I barely put my shoes and I went outside and I just ran a marathon, which was literally awful, so awful, much more awful than I expected. But I’m so stubborn. I don’t even know how long it took me. But so yeah, so I would just try everything and one of the guy on the guy rugby team, was like, first of all, he was a dick, but he was like, Oh, you think you’re so cool? You think you’re so in shape, blah, blah blah, you know, come try CrossFit. And I was like, I love to train. So OK. Like I’ll come. And did not like the guy, but really loved the community.

Sean (09:09):

When did you figure out that you were actually pretty good at it?

Camille (09:15):

To be honest, I—I never, it’s so weird. I never thought I was good. Including my whole career of competing. I just always thought I wasn’t good enough and I always thought I could be more, which is crazy. But I think one day I realized that I just really love what competition brought in me and that’s what I really got hooked on. But literally I think every single time I thought I was kinda good at it, I mean, you experienced it firsthand watching me getting slapped in the face, you just come back down to earth. And I really fell in love in the process of trying to figure out who I am. That was what I loved the most about sports and failing and doing it in front of millions of people. I’m very grateful of who I became through those year.

Sean (10:29):

You made it to the Games for the first time in 2010. What were your expectations when you showed up in Carson to compete for the first time?

Camille (10:38):

Oh, don’t be last. That’s it. That is literally all. You know, it’s so funny because there was like 200 person in the stands, and it was so big for me. Like it was so freaking huge and I was like, I just don’t want to be last. But, so I grew up in a really small town and what it gave me is when I got there, I realized that I could get out of where I was and it gave me so much hope. And that’s also a part of, I think why I became so good. So mentally tough. So all of those things because I had a hope and a chance to like do more and become more. That was awesome.

Sean (11:30):

Yeah. You took ninth that year, so obviously much better than last. What were the lessons that you learned from that year competing at the Games?

Camille (11:39):

That I—go away. He has to make everything about himself.

Sean (11:45):

Dave Lipson just showing up there for a second. Hi Dave.

Camille (11:48):

Literally before this interview, I go, Hey Dave, why don’t you come sit next to me and try to micromanage. So what I learned that year that is that I belong. Finishing nine I was like I’m going to be one of those top girl. And that’s it.

Sean (12:10):

Then how did that affect your training as you moved forward from that point?

Camille (12:15):

There’s nothing more dangerous than giving someone a glimpse of hope. So I was full-time student in chemical engineering through almost all my career. And you know, people, I hear it all the time cause a lot of people definitely come to me to tell me how they’re going to be the next person at the Games. And you know, in my heart I really hope that they will. I’m like this, you know, but at the same time I’m always—did you even know what it takes? Because I used to literally, some day I would sleep at the gym cause I had school at eight, so I would like bring an air mattress at the gym, wake up at 4:00 AM, train from like four to 6:30. My school was an hour and a half away from the only gym that we had access to. I would drive to school and then go to school all day, nap at lunch at like the cafeteria table. And then I would train from like six to eight or eight to 10 at night. And I would do that every single day. I had no computer, no telephone, no TV. I would just like, it was school, training, and I loved it.

Sean (13:30):

Not many people have that drive and that self-discipline to maintain that schedule and work that hard. Where do you think that came from with you?

Camille (13:42):

I just knew I was meant for bigger thing. I think—there’s something that I hated that happened to me that happens a lot of kids I think when they grow up and I think people force us to stop dreaming. So like when you grow up, you’re a kid, you dream you’re going to be an astronaut. You dream you’re going to be, you know, all those amazing thing. You’re going to be a star. And then because those goals are so hard to reach and other people, mostly adult, they just, I think they do it with kindness, they just don’t want you to get hurt by like trying so hard to do something and then failing that they try to tell you right away how only like certain kind of people can do it. And because I’m not from a family with any money, I think in a way or either someone who shine bright when their kids, they get bullied.

Camille (14:38):

That’s what happened to me. I got really bullied hard in school cause I was different. I had no idea I was different. And after I was done in high school and I started college, again, I realized that I hated how I stopped having this dreamy feeling for hoping more for yourself. So when I got into college, I just promised myself I was going to hunker down and work, just work. And I just knew that with that work, that like hope in my heart and just keeping that dreamy feeling, I just, I don’t know why, but I knew I could do anything. And I just really hang on to that. Then I knew that I was going to start to qualify and quantify myself as a person with the work I put in and just how I treat people. And then I did that when I was 20, I started to love myself more and that was great.

Sean (15:42):

That’s great. Fantastic answer. You and Michelle Letendre had some great battles in the old Canada East Regional going back and forth. What stands out to you about competing against her for those years at Canada East?

Camille (15:57):

I think the funniest thing, cause we talked about it when she retired and that really cracked me up. I loved it as much as she hated it. I loved the pressure. She made me so much better. It was awesome. I think we really helped each other reach our full potential and that was everything.

Sean (16:25):

How exactly did you think Michelle made you better?

Camille (16:29):

She was good. I think like her only goal was to beat me, you know, and I knew that and that was awesome. So I wasn’t going to give it to her. It was awesome.

Sean (16:47):

You got better every year at the Games until 2013 and you dropped to 16th that year. What, if anything, did that do to your confidence?

Camille (16:58):

It made me win the next year.

Sean (17:01):

What effect did that have on your training then the way you prepared after you took 16th?

Camille (17:10):

Yeah. You know, I started, I had like really like just only top 10, so you start to think in your head that you deserve maybe things, and I had worked so hard on like, don’t get me wrong every year I work my ass off. But I think I just thought that for me it was an easy gift that I was going to be top 10. And it made me realize what it take to go from top 10 to top three and that when you want to be top three, you have to be perfect, and like not perfect in the way you, I don’t know how to say it. Not only just perfect all year with your food, nutrition, training, mindset and all of it, but when you compete, you have to respect the other girls you’re going with and understand that everyone’s going to kill themselves for this.

Camille (18:07):

So that’s how I started to train that year. I would literally go to the track and just, I would write champ on my hand. And especially because Sam Briggs won that previous year and she was so good at like all this endurance stuff, I would always ask myself like, how fast would she be running? Am I running faster? Am I like trying? And I like just started to really like not see myself as like as good as the other girl, but like trying to use all of their strength and try to see if I could beat them at their strength. And yeah, I like reach out to a lot of people. Extended my group of coaching. So Chris Hinshaw, CJ, Martin, Sean Lin were like my like core team. My husband got like more involved cause he saw the potential and then, you know, just like understand the value in the journey, learning, education, just all the other stuff. I dunno, but to be honest, and I talked about this to a couple other athletes, you have to sacrifice everything. Everything for one year. And it could be worth it. And thank God for me it was.

Sean (19:31):

How were you feeling when you showed up to the StubHub Center for the Games in 2014?

Camille (19:38):

I was just going to do the best I could. And you know, you can’t—you don’t show up thinking you’re gonna win cause I got slapped in the face the year before, so I’m not cocky at all, just humbly being part of this with the amazing women. But for me, the search like really became like trying to become this version of myself that I wanted to see in an athlete. So in 2014 I just wanted to be like really for myself, fully proud of my effort in every single workout. So that’s what I did. I took chance. I, you know, did stuff that the halfway in it I was like whoa boy, this could really backfire on me right now. But yeah, there’s a lot of that involved too.

Sean (20:33):

At what point did you think that, you know what? I actually have a chance to win this whole thing.

Camille (20:43):

Not before Saturday night cause I don’t look at the score when I compete ever. So I had no idea what my points are. And then Saturday night they gave me the white jersey and me and Dave went home and I was like, Holy f*&@. Cause I mean, you know at this point there’s like really not much workout left. And normally Sunday, for me as an athlete, that’s when you’re more in the, you know, the tennis stadium and those are more CrossFitty-ish type workout, which are my strengths. So I was like, I think this is gonna happen. And as soon as I thought that, I knew it was going to.

Sean (21:24):

What was it like being on the tennis stadium floor? You’ve just finished Double Grace and then Dave Castro announces you as the fittest woman on Earth?

Camille (21:33):

It’s so funny because everyone think it’s like this miraculous moment. Like, Oh my God, this just happened. But it’s like I worked all my life for this. So, you know, I soon as I sat down, all that happened in my head was yes, I am the fittest, you know, and I know it. Like I just know, I literally just proved that and by a lot, too. And then after that I remember I sat down and I started to cry and I just thought, I’m so tired.

Camille (22:13):

And then the next thing I just wanted Dave, my husband, there and to have him come and celebrate. That was my favorite moment. Me and Dave on the floor. I was very grateful that Dave Castro let my husband come on the floor so we can get that little celebration together because, you know, like we did this together. He sacrificed a lot to help me achieve this. And it’s really rough on couples and marriage because the pressure that I put on myself, I project on him and it’s a lot.

Sean (22:53):

Other than hearing your name announced and your celebration with Dave on the floor, what are the moments that stand out to you the most about the 2014 Games?

Camille (23:02):

Well, this is something that I don’t think a lot of people know, but I was taking five class in chemical engineering during that summer. So, the Sunday happen and then the next day I had to take a red eye to go do my finals at school. So that kind of would stand out the most to me because it was like literally one day you’re literally on top of the world and the next day I was doing finals at school with people that had no idea what I just did. And I really loved that. It was big for me to just stay who I am because you realize that the literally almost no one else in the world cares. I don’t know. It was definitely weird after I did it because in your head you go, well, what’s next? Because you focus on that so much and then you did it.

Camille (24:01):

So it’s really weird. I think it’s gonna still take me a couple years before I realize everything I did through my career, because I’m too work oriented, focused. The same focus I had in CrossFit and being the fittest, now I have the same focus in trying to help people, give them the best training program, the best nutrition, all of that because my focus through the year has really changed a lot through like I want to be the best me and now I really want to help people become the best them through obviously my business that I started because I would go, when I injured my shoulder in 2017, I started to go in globo gym and it really broke my heart to see just the amount of people who want to be fit and healthy that don’t have access to good credible content. Everything about nutrition is very confusing out there, they don’t even start with the basic better like calorie intake and micronutrient balance. And yeah, I think like seeing that like gave me this new fire the same way that when I found CrossFit. So now I just want to help people.

Sean (25:20):

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Camille (26:23):

I mean, so much changed. I think a lot change were for me, my quest—I was fitter every year from then on. But I think there’s good and bad things that change where like I think after I won in 2014, the sport really blew. And I think, you know, people I don’t know, more money, more fame, everything changed. And I think there was, there’s things that happened to me, like I got injured and I had some demon I had to go through because, you know, it’s not as easy as it seems once you win, you lose a little faith in the world because everyone tried to take something out of you and there’s a lot of things that are really hard that happened to me through that that people don’t know. But either way for me, the quest has always been to become the best version of myself. And that’s what I always wanted to do. And that’s what I did in 2018. I was perfect. I was so tough. That’s all I wanted. I wanted to be the most mentally tough version of me I could have. And the result was just gonna be, you know, attached to that, whatever that was going to be. And I’ve always resented myself from that half marathon row we did in 2013. So in 18, when they announced the marathon row, everyone else was crying. I was stoked.

Camille (28:16):

I was like, who else gets like a redemption like this? And when I did that marathon row, I finished in a spot no one would have expected me to finish, beat it. I should have been last on paper, with just my size, and the whole time I was rowing, I was telling myself—so this is what mental toughness is to me, is having a clear mind and an open heart when every card is stacked against you. I think people that think that mental toughness is like, Oh, this person is so good at this grind. But if grinding is your strength, I don’t necessarily think you have to be that mentally tough to do it. But when everything is stacked against you and is the thing you hate the most and you still go in with an open mind and an open heart and just full of love and gratitude and you do your best, that to me is the person I wanted to become.

Camille (29:15):

So I did that in that marathon row and that’s what I wanted to do through my career. And there’s no fame in that. There’s no extra sponsor. Literally, no one knew this except like my husband. And like CJ, who’s been with me through all those years and as soon as I did that in 2018, I knew I was done, because I became the person I wanted to be, which is why I competed in the first place. So yeah, to me it doesn’t matter where, you know, on paper I finished because in my heart I became who I want it to be.

Sean (29:55):

You mentioned some of the things that you went through after winning the CrossFit Games. What did you learn about yourself from that adversity?

Camille (30:05):

Gosh, I just learned that I didn’t want it to be like what a lot of people showed me. I mean you can learn from yourself, but I think you can learn a lot from others and it’s really funny how once there is a little bit more money involved and some sort of power involved people really change a lot. And that’s what I learned from that. I promised myself I was never ever going to do that or treat people like that.

Sean (30:36):

You got back to the Games podium last year, but you were a member of a team. What was that experience like for you?

Camille (30:43):

That was fun. I got to, you know, train hard for eight weeks instead of 52.

Camille (30:53):

You know, got a glimpse of what it feels like to have a normal life. Got to start my business, got to really start helping people around me. Got to, you know, just have fun with three other amazing person and it was fun. Definitely not as hard, you know, we work, I mean we work our ass off obviously cause I was terrified to let the team down. But it was nice and for me it was a nice way to be done. No pressure, enjoy being there and that’s it. And literally me and Dave would watch the individual, especially last year, crying everywhere. I was like I don’t want t be part of that.

Sean (31:44):

What is Féroce Fitness?

Camille (31:49):

It’s everything that we all need right now. So, I mean pretty simple, especially after competing, I wanted to build and my body’s broken. I wanted to build something that is super accessible to people, minimal equipment. Something that is quick to do that I can do while I’m building my business, give you the most result. Efficient. And also it’s kind of a pairing of like lower barrier of entrance of like functional fitness. So we remove a lot of the super complex movement cause I don’t want to see my mom do a muscle-up or a one rep-max-max deadlift. I’ve seen her do it, her back rounds every time. OK. So I don’t want her to do that. But I wanted to build something that was more towards health than performance. Something that everyone can do at their house and also wanted to build something where you can have this coach with you.

Camille (32:51):

Kind of have a personal coach at distance. So everything in Féroce, there’s video for everything with me explaining how to do things, what’s the goal of workout and it’s very detailed and I’m very present. Because I want people who are either intimidated to go to a gym or if people don’t have time to go to a gym to be able to have that like really personal touch and know exactly what they’re doing so they can regain their confidence, they can be fit, they can be part of a community and all that jazz together. I mean I have training experience like no one else really, and I just took like the best of every world that I’ve been a part of and just tried to create the best programming out there. So we do also a lot of strength, but it’s more towards rehabilitation, make sure your body is bulletproof.

Camille (33:49):

So we don’t really do as much of like super complex weightlifting like clean and jerk and snatch. But we do a lot more like bodybuilding rehabilitation type of thing where—here’s the truth, I spent 10 years doing CrossFit. I’m in a body that I had to be in for CrossFit, but I kind of want to be skinny and pretty too. So my program is just make it so you know, be as fit as possible but also we’re like, we definitely target muscle groups so you look as good as possible, which is just fun to do. I don’t trash myself ever. It’s like this easy get going type of workout and then you start pushing halfway through and you always have something good. So it’s really fun.

Sean (34:39):

You touched on this a little bit earlier, but what was the thing that you saw or the void that you saw out there when you said, you know what, I have to start this.

Camille (34:49):

Yeah. So, it’s a very specific example and I mean you guys can ask Dave, but I started to cry at the 24-Hour Fitness. So, when I had my shoulder surgery, I had to start to do a lot more machine going to 24-Hour Fitness cause I couldn’t like squat with the bar on me and all that jazz, which also was very eyeopening because we do have to modify a lot of thing and like going in like a club fitness and things like that. It is very, very good for like most people cause almost everyone has a shoulder issue, back issue and knee, hips and all that stuff. So we do need to take care of them and let me tell you, doing squat, clean and jerk all the time is not the best thing for them. And I was doing a leg press and there was this guy that was in this wheelchair and he came, he just saw me and Dave training so hard and he came to us and he was like, just introduced himself and we started to talk to him and then he told us that he had a stroke and like as the day were going by, he was losing more and more of his capacity to move.

Camille (36:00):

And me and David were looking at him and my heart really felt for him. But then we saw what he was doing with this personal trainer and that’s when my heart broke because we were like, you should be making him stand up and sit back down a fucking million time. Like to make sure that like, you know, he’s in a way to regain that. And everything the person was making him do was there, was just nothing. And then so that broke my heart cause I wish—me and Dave were like, we wanted to do something but we couldn’t, would have got kicked out of the gym cause we’re not the personal trainer there, we’re just members and then started to just look around after that. And there was like about 50 person on just like walking on treadmill, doing leg extension, looking at their phone and what really broke my heart is that all those people there are spending time away from their family away from other things because they’re really trying to put health first in their life, but they have no guidance. And how frustrating must that be to sacrifice those other hobby and time with your family to do something that is giving you no results? Because there is like not a real plan to it.

Camille (37:34):

And that’s when I started Féroce. That’s when I started to, I wrote this book called “Jumpstart to Health,” which is so far from what people think my brand is where I’m like this badass CrossFit chick, you know. And now the whole thing is this 30-day we teach people the foundation of nutrition, 30 day at home workout with 30 day of mindset. Cause I really believe that like mindset and nutrition and training just has to be hand in hand because our nutrition might be on, if your mindset and your training is off, it’s going to fall apart. If you have good training, good nutrition, your mindset is off, you’re going to get triggered, your behavior is going to change and they’re going to fall apart. So I just think the whole thing goes together and we did that first book and then a lot of people reach out. They were like, Oh, you know, we all need help for shoulder. Cause I realized that there is also no plan for people over their shoulder to come back from. So me and my doctor wrote down my other book. And then after that we use that money to be able to start the whole programming and the website. Then here we are. Yeah.

Sean (38:46):

What elements of CrossFit did you decide to include in your Féroce Fitness program?

Camille (38:53):

I think, you know, there’s a lot of amazing thing about CrossFit. I just think that over the years it almost feels like people made it what they wanted it to be, where like it became this very like all about performance type of deal. And I don’t know, I feel like when I started CrossFit it was more about being this group of people who just were health conscious, like coming together and trying to be better. And that’s really what I wanted as my program is this like thing that is this group of people who just want to be better as a group. So obviously we have this Facebook group, I’m on it every day cause I’m obsessed with my clients because I just, when people get better and they like, let me know, for me like that’s like literally better than winning the CrossFit Game.

Camille (39:53):

It just like, I cry all the time. You can ask Dave, I’m such, I’m like the toughest girl ever, but I’m so fragile. It’s ridiculous. Like I’m like keeping myself from crying, just talking about my clients. This is how bad I am, it’s terrible. But yeah, I think like bringing the group aspect of it, helping people learn and get better, that’s what I got from CrossFit and that’s what I really want to bring to people. Always keeping an open mind, keep learning, keep growing, which is what my program’s all about. I reach out to a lot of people to help me cause I don’t think I’m the best at everything, but I want the best people at what they do to be part of this, to give people in general just the best information, the best program, just the best care.

Sean (40:44):

What’s it been like for you from going to training to be this high-level athlete to now just training for life?

Camille (40:54):

It feels so good. Me and my husband needed me to stop. Yeah. I mean we get to go on dates. Dates. Like what is this? Yesterday we were Wednesday, I ate for lunch a brownie sundae. Like what is that? It’s great, you get to just, I’m taking ice skating lesson now. I’m able to do like just all the things I couldn’t do because I couldn’t ski much in case you get hurt, you can’t do like all those things cause you might get hurt. So now I like I’m going to shred on a mountain bike this summer. Like Dave is going to flip out because he gets so scared because I like things too much. But it’s really nice. I would say the only one thing I miss, and this is gonna sound so ridiculous, I miss just the pure suffering pain sometimes. But then, you know, I start working out, then I go there. I’m like, eh. I’m good.

Sean (42:10):

You mentioned your clients. What is one story or one reaction that you’ve gotten from somebody that really has had a profound impact on you?

Camille (42:20):

Well, I mean so far I’ve had like thousands and thousands of clients, but the one that keeps coming back, so this one just happened last weekend, this week with one of my one-on-one nutrition client. I think it’s really hard for people to make a lot of change when they’re part of those groups that are unhealthy. Not the unhealthy like negative people, but just like that eat bad, don’t train, they just don’t know that their life really needs a lot of tweaks and geeks and it’s really hard for, you know, to be part of a group like that and be the one person that is going to make change because everyone else project on you. And I just had the client like send me this email of how proud she was of herself because they all went out for pizza and she brought with her her protein shake and didn’t eat pizza.

Camille (43:16):

And not only to me, it shows me that she was, I bet it was one of the first time that she put herself first, no matter what people were going to say or judge her and all of that. And it made me so happy for her and not only does it make me happy for her, her children, her husband, they see her taking care of herself. And the next thing you know is her kids are going to start taking care of themselves too. And it’s like this one person and this group of people that, you know, when you’re the first one to pave the road with the people around you, you’re going to get all the resistance. Just everyone’s going to try to pull you back because change are harder than change are scary. So every time I have someone that do something like that, it makes my heart melt because I don’t think they themselves understand the impact they have for the people around them.

Camille (44:16):

And I think that’s how you really start to change the world health-wise or other things is like, I mean, I’ve got some email that were really rough sometimes, but the meant a lot, but I’ve had people like writing to me because they started this program and they got stronger and they got out of abusive relationship and things like that. And you don’t know it, but you might have like saved a life in a way. And yeah, that stuff is awesome. It’s great. One of my other clients stop drinking.

Sean (44:57):

That’s awesome. Wow.

Camille (45:00):

Like, because his body changed and he started to gain confidence in himself. He stopped drinking wasn’t like Hey Cam, I’m gonna—it was like hey, by the way, I’ve been doing this. Like that’s insane. It’s so rewarding. It’s unbelievable.

Sean (45:20):

Just a couple more questions here. You said earlier that you kind of wanted to find out who you are now. Obviously you’re not done growing and you’re not done accomplishing what you want to accomplish. But right now, who is Camille Leblanc-Bazinet?

Camille (45:34):

She’s a little stinker. I think, you know, I think I’m just a very, very hardworking woman, and I obviously know what my values are, which is what my whole life is based around, and I think once you know your value, it’s a lot easier to know who you are. I believe obviously in work, in kindness and I just want to help people, like I think we’re on this planet for one thing, is being part of this big group of people and I just want to make sure that I’m on the side, that I leave a mark out there, that I help people. And yeah, and I’m full on psycho, like full on crazy person. I work all day, all night. That’s literally pretty much how I qualify and quantify myself. I just work, I try to do a lot which I think it’s weird for people sometimes.

Camille (46:46):

Like two nights I’m going to train with this girl. And she was trying to make sure my training was OK. I was like, no, I just want to help you with your training. I don’t care what we’re doing, like I just want to be there for you. And I don’t think people are quite used to that in others, but yeah. But I think, I mean, you know, my husband, and I think we both really feed off of each other in that those are our biggest value. And I want Féroce to obviously be the biggest training platform out there because I want as many people involved in it as possible and to help as many people too, because this isn’t the type of brand where we’re trying like make money. All I want to do is help people and I can’t wait to make enough money so we can start a bunch of charities, which is itching me because we’re not there yet. And it drives me crazy that I feel like I’m not helping enough, that’s what keeps me up at night. It’s not big enough and built enough that we can like give back as much as I would want to. I don’t know if I answered your question.

Sean (47:56):

No, you absolutely did. And this’ll be the final one. But you talked about, you know, being younger and getting bullied and having people tell you that, you know, maybe you shouldn’t have that dream. If you could go back right now and you could talk to those people and show them what you’ve accomplished, what would you say to them?

Camille (48:14):

I would just try to help them because, you know, as you grew older, it makes me sad to think about how willing they were to be mean. You know, I was never mean back to them. Growing up, like I would always just keep moving, just keep moving, trying to get out. That’s all I would think about it, which is why I think I’m such a hardworking person, because as long as I did sports and work, you know, you don’t think about the other stuff. So at home, if you have any problem with anything, just work. Because when you work, you’re busy; your brain is busy. You don’t make up all those stories and things like that. Looking back, I just really hope that they got through their own insecurity, and it took me 30 years to come back from that. And I still don’t think I’m pretty, you know, sometimes I look at myself, I think I’m pretty and sometimes I don’t. Then sometimes I don’t even know what I look like cause my focus is so much on the work and the other stuff, which I don’t know if it’s weird or if everyone’s like that.

Sean (49:37):

Everyone is like that, yes.

Camille (49:37):

It’s like completely confusing for me, but I don’t know if that’s how you’re supposed to feel inside your own self. Like I don’t know. But I just, you know, I hope that they found a way to become better. I think the biggest thing is I hope that they’re able to own themselves, the good and the bad because I’ve made mistake too. But I own it, the good and the bad and that’s a big thing for me. It’s very important to be accountable. When I make mistake, I say it right away. Like I’ve called like a lot of people crying like, Oh my God, I’m so sorry. Like I had no idea, it came out wrong or you know, I had my period and I didn’t mean any of it. But I just hope people are able to be a little bit more accountable and own a little bit more their action.

Sean (50:31):

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. Best of luck with Féroce Fitness and definitely looking forward to seeing you out there on the competition floor at the Rogue Invitational.

Camille (50:43):

I’m terrified about it. I’ll just give high-fives to take breaks because that way no one’s going to know I’m just truly dying inside.

Sean (50:52):

I think that’s a great strategy. Camille, hank you so much. Appreciate it.

Camille (50:55):

Thank you Sean.

Sean (50:57):

Huge thanks to Camille Leblanc-Bazinet for taking the time to speak with me. You can follow her on Instagram. She is @camillelbaz. You can also check out Féroce Fitness. That is at Férocefitness.com. Thank you for listening to Two-Brain Radio. For all the best of the business world, please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and please leave us a review. And if you have feedback or a guest suggestion, send it to podcast@twobrainbusiness.com. I’m Sean Woodland and we’ll see you next time.


On Wednesdays, Sean Woodland tells the best stories in the CrossFit community on Two-Brain Radio With Sean Woodland.

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